Future hair transplant surgeons, click here!

[DOCTORSAIB]

I REALLY like ophthalmology...but I want to keep an open mind as I progess in my medical education. Everyone these days seems to be talking about rads, ophtho, anesthesia, and derm (ROAD to success) but what about *hair transplant surgery.* What can you guys who are farther along in your education tell me about this field? Any success stories?

I feel like it's a gold mine waiting to be discovered. Lots of financial potential with very little competition. I mean who really starts med school with the intention of becoming a hair transplant surgeon? I should of wrote that on my application just to see the response of the interviewers...

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[OldPsychDoc]

I REALLY like ophthalmology...but I want to keep an open mind as I progess in my medical education. Everyone these days seems to be talking about rads, ophtho, anesthesia, and derm (ROAD to success) but what about *hair transplant surgery.* What can you guys who are farther along in your education tell me about this field? Any success stories?

I feel like it's a gold mine waiting to be discovered. Lots of financial potential with very little competition. I mean who really starts med school with the intention of becoming a hair transplant surgeon? I should of wrote that on my application just to see the response of the interviewers...

That would fall under the domain of derm, actually...

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

That would fall under the domain of derm, actually...

Really? I've heard otherwise. For example, I went to the student health clinic at PCOM about 2 weeks ago to get vaccinations before my trip to India. The nurse and I started talking about how doc's are getting screwed these days by insurance companies. She told me a very interesting story about a neurosurgeon in Philly who had to stop practicing because his malpractice was so damn high and he was barely breaking even. After quiting neurosurgery, he got trained in hair transplant surgery and now he is happier than ever. Not to mention very well off financially...

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Really? I've heard otherwise. For example, I went to the student health clinic at PCOM about 2 weeks ago to get vaccinations before my trip to India. The nurse and I started talking about how doc's are getting screwed these days by insurance companies. She told me a very interesting story about a neurosurgeon in Philly who had to stop practicing because his malpractice was so damn high and he was barely breaking even. After quiting neurosurgery, he got trained in hair transplant surgery and now he is happier than ever. Not to mention very well off financially...

Just proves that he wasn't cut out to be a neurosurgeon, and that he was probably pursuing a medical career for the wrong reasons in the first place.

And lest you think that it exempts one from liability or malpractice claims, check this out: http://home1.gte.net/dschrode/newtransplant-tales.htm

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

Just proves that he wasn't cut out to be a neurosurgeon, and that he was probably pursuing a medical career for the wrong reasons in the first place.

And lest you think that it exempts one from liability or malpractice claims, check this out: http://home1.gte.net/dschrode/newtransplant-tales.htm

Your link doesn't work. Anyways, I can't comment on the neurosurgeon's intentions or skills. I do know that hair transplant surgery is open to other fields besides derm. Check this website out. Theres docs on their from several different specialities who "switched over."

http://www.hairtransplantmedical.com/hair_transplants/locate_a_doctor.htm

In fact, the first DO doc (Glenn Charles, DO) on there was a radiologist!

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

Just proves that he wasn't cut out to be a neurosurgeon, and that he was probably pursuing a medical career for the wrong reasons in the first place.

And lest you think that it exempts one from liability or malpractice claims, check this out: http://home1.gte.net/dschrode/newtransplant-tales.htm

Your link doesn't work. Anyways, I can't comment on the neurosurgeon's intentions or skills. I do know that hair transplant surgery is open to other fields besides derm. Check this website out. Theres docs on their from several different specialities who "switched over."

http://www.hairtransplantmedical.com/hair_transplants/locate_a_doctor.htm

In fact, the first DO doc (Glenn Charles, DO) on there was a radiologist!

 

[doc05]

"hair transplant surgeon" is not a real specialty. it in fact requires a very limited skill set that pretty much anyone can master. most of the actual "transplant" is done by technicians anyway.

many of these doctors have been formally trained in dermatology or plastic surgery and hair transplants are a good way to bring in the $$.

 

[NinerNiner999]

Anyone with an MD or DO and a state license can perform hair tranplant, botox, dermabrasion, tattoo removal, tooth whitening, and any other "cosmetic" related medical procedure - even if they have never recieved formal training. Scary, really when you think about it, but most people aren't worried about insurance - they pay out of pocket. These types of jobs are very lucrative indeed...

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

I'm wondering if all I need to do is 1 year of internship and then immediately start training as a hair transplant surgeon. I see all these older doc's who went through grueling plastics, urology, and radiology residencies only to switch over into hair transplantation.

I need to do more research and perhaps set up an informal rotation with one of these guys to really get a feel for what they do. Seems like a great field. All cash, no emergencies, no pager, great hours, and you make people happy.

 

[NinerNiner999]

I'm wondering if all I need to do is 1 year of internship and then immediately start training as a hair transplant surgeon. I see all these older doc's who went through grueling plastics, urology, and radiology residencies only to switch over into hair transplantation.

I need to do more research and perhaps set up an informal rotation with one of these guys to really get a feel for what they do. Seems like a great field. All cash, no emergencies, no pager, great hours, and you make people happy.

And, if you get a really good lawyer, you may be able to get your "patients" to sign a waiver protecting you from litigation...

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

And, if you get a really good lawyer, you may be able to get your "patients" to sign a waiver protecting you from litigation...

IMO, there are two kinds of friends you want to have when you're done with residency, a good financial advisor and a damn good lawyer.

 

[ForSkin]

is it just me, or is any else getting a bit sick of DO's trolling around for backdoors and cracks in the system so they can expand beyond their ordained turf (FP) with procedures they should best leave to trained professionals?

as long as intelligent patients will be willing to pay extra for plastic and derm surgeons, i'm not gonna really sweat it. but the hypocrisy of these DO's preaching this "we are the primary care martyrs and the only one's treating the whole patient", all while weasling to get trained in botox and transplant ..... please.

last i checked, you can't OMT follicles into place.

 

[VentdependenT]

is it just me, or is any else getting a bit sick of DO's trolling around for backdoors and cracks in the system so they can expand beyond their ordained turf (FP) with procedures they should best leave to trained professionals?

as long as intelligent patients will be willing to pay extra for plastic and derm surgeons, i'm not gonna really sweat it. but the hypocrisy of these DO's preaching this "we are the primary care martyrs and the only one's treating the whole patient", all while weasling to get trained in botox and transplant ..... please.

last i checked, you can't OMT follicles into place.

LMAO

Relax man

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

is it just me, or is any else getting a bit sick of DO's trolling around for backdoors and cracks in the system so they can expand beyond their ordained turf (FP) with procedures they should best leave to trained professionals?

as long as intelligent patients will be willing to pay extra for plastic and derm surgeons, i'm not gonna really sweat it. but the hypocrisy of these DO's preaching this "we are the primary care martyrs and the only one's treating the whole patient", all while weasling to get trained in botox and transplant ..... please.

last i checked, you can't OMT follicles into place.

Somebody is a little insecure...

 

[NinerNiner999]

is it just me, or is any else getting a bit sick of DO's trolling around for backdoors and cracks in the system so they can expand beyond their ordained turf (FP) with procedures they should best leave to trained professionals?

as long as intelligent patients will be willing to pay extra for plastic and derm surgeons, i'm not gonna really sweat it. but the hypocrisy of these DO's preaching this "we are the primary care martyrs and the only one's treating the whole patient", all while weasling to get trained in botox and transplant ..... please.

last i checked, you can't OMT follicles into place.

ForeSkin is just another Dermatologist bitter that, despite probably being at the top of the class, realized that anyone with the desire to learn techniques can become good at them and do the same work he/she can without all the hard work they put in. Not to discount the medical school or residency training system, but it doesnt take much to excise hair follicles or to administer Bo-tox. Not surprisingly, it takes even less to find well-to-do people who will pay cash to have these done by whomever has the know how (and regardless of their credentials). I don't advocate this type of practice, but hey - if things are easy to learn and lucrative to administer, why not put your medical license to its intended use - its better than having Joe Blow with a scalpel and syringe do it from his back porch...

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

ForeSkin is just another Dermatologist bitter that, despite probably being at the top of the class, realized that anyone with the desire to learn techniques can become good at them and do the same work he/she can without all the hard work they put in. Not to discount the medical school or residency training system, but it doesnt take much to excise hair follicles or to administer Bo-tox. Not surprisingly, it takes even less to find well-to-do people who will pay cash to have these done by whomever has the know how (and regardless of their credentials). I don't advocate this type of practice, but hey - if things are easy to learn and lucrative to administer, why not put your medical license to its intended use - its better than having Joe Blow with a scalpel and syringe do it from his back porch...

I used to work with an oculo-plastics ophthalmologist who thought most plastic surgeons/ENT's had no business doing blepharoplasty's (eyelid surgery). He felt that their knowledge of the orbit, especially of the delicate anatomy of the eyelid, was generally not sufficient. Ofte, I would agree with him. But then I see all these lid procedures being performed, most NOT by oculo-plastic specialists, but my ENT's and plastics guys and understandably with good outcomes. In fact, I'm kinda of hooked on Discovery health channel and these complete make-over shows. I don't think I've ever seen a blepharoplasty performed by someone other than some reknowned "Beverly Hills plastic surgeon."

If you can do the job right and theres no law that prevents your from doing it, by all means go for it. As long as your patients are happy with your work, that says alot more than some disgruntled derm-wannabe, resident, or loser attending who comes on here and yells at the neighborhood kids for stepping on his grass...

 

[doc05]

I used to work with an oculo-plastics ophthalmologist who thought most plastic surgeons/ENT's had no business doing blepharoplasty's (eyelid surgery). He felt that their knowledge of the orbit, especially of the delicate anatomy of the eyelid, was generally not sufficient.

that's nonsense. blepharoplasty is a very simple case and any plastic surgeon or ENT should have the requisite skill set to do one.

 

[Mirror Form]

that's nonsense. blepharoplasty is a very simple case and any plastic surgeon or ENT should have the requisite skill set to do one.

Perhaps, but if I was going to get blepharoplasy, I'd go see an oculoplastics ophthalmologist. Similarly, if I wanted a face lift, I'd see a plastic surgeon. I don't think that the various surgical fields should be invading on each other's turf b/c that dilutes the surgeons skill set. You're much better off having a surgeon who specializes in the surgery he's doing on you, rather then a surgeon who has a general skill set and just dabbles in that area.

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

that's nonsense. blepharoplasty is a very simple case and any plastic surgeon or ENT should have the requisite skill set to do one.

Yeah, I kind of agree with you on that one. Yet, as the above poster said, if I wanted a blepharoplasty, I'd rather go to someone who's main focus is the eye and orbit.

 

[doc05]

I think you're both missing the point here. Have you ever seen a blepharoplasty? It's not rocket science. Nor does it involve the orbit.

The training in both ENT and plastics includes plenty of experience in blephs.

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

I think you're both missing the point here. Have you ever seen a blepharoplasty? It's not rocket science. Nor does it involve the orbit.

The training in both ENT and plastics includes plenty of experience in blephs.

Correction: peri-orbital region. I worked as an ophthalmic tech for over 2 years. While I saw patients all day long, I never really went to the OR to observe surgeries. So yeah, I never really knew how hard/easy it is to do blepharoplastys. Thanx for the info.

 

[GrandMasterB]

I must say, I have become interested in DOc05- no, not in that way. Your posts are often callous, usually helpful, sometimes "holier than thou," demonstrative of a possibly pathologically concrete and linearly logical thought process, and generally humorless . I have to say I was pleasantly surprised when you commented, humorously , about derm residents in another forum. Anyways, these are just my idiotic ramblings- not meant to attack you, just share an opinion and perhaps some constructive criticism. Don't make me quote bobby mcpherrin (sp)! What are you going into doc05?

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

I must say, I have become interested in DOc05- no, not in that way. Your posts are often callous, usually helpful, sometimes "holier than thou,"

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. How you say things can really make a difference. Some people like the authoritative approach, others like to get their point across in a more supportive manner. IMO, people who use the latter approach are just as effective, sometimes more. If you have something to say, just say it nicely. That's all.

 

[Gimlet]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. How you say things can really make a difference. Some people like the authoritative approach, others like to get their point across in a more supportive manner. IMO, people who use the latter approach are just as effective, sometimes more. If you have something to say, just say it nicely. That's all.

Personally, I appreciate doc05's posts. He is definitely one of the most helpful people that post on these forums. His posts are short and to the point, and he cuts through all the BS that's involved with some of the convoluted topics that come up on SDN. Just because he doesn't have a flowery attitude doesn't mean his words are any less valid. If you don't like his style, try using the "ignore" function, but I think you would be losing a lot of valuable advice.

 

[AlbertConstable]

I generally agree with doc05 and appreciate his matter-of-fact posts. I am also curious to know what field he is going into. Care to share doc05? I am guessing a surgical sub-specialty (maybe ent?) but I can't tell for sure.

 

[Mirror Form]

I think you're both missing the point here. Have you ever seen a blepharoplasty? It's not rocket science. Nor does it involve the orbit.

The training in both ENT and plastics includes plenty of experience in blephs.

I'm sure they have enough experience to do an "acceptable" job. However, for the best possible outcome, you want somebody with the most experience and who knows all the cosmetic nuances of that area, which would be an oculoplastics guy. We have OMFS guys who have enough experience to do face lifts, nose jobs, etc. . . . but that doesn't mean I'd choose them over a plastic surgeon just b/c they'd probably do an okay job. I'd want the best, and you're much better off seeing a specialist.

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

Personally, I appreciate doc05's posts. He is definitely one of the most helpful people that post on these forums. His posts are short and to the point, and he cuts through all the BS that's involved with some of the convoluted topics that come up on SDN. Just because he doesn't have a flowery attitude doesn't mean his words are any less valid. If you don't like his style, try using the "ignore" function, but I think you would be losing a lot of valuable advice.

I never said anything about validity. In fact, I never said I didn't appreciate his/her help. I do. I just think his/her approach is really serious. We're sharing information here to help each other out, not doing brain surgery. Be honest. Be concise. Be helpful. But also be nice.

Wait. Whatever happened to the discussion about hair transplant surgery?

 

[NinerNiner999]

So really - why are fields like Plastic Surgery and Dermatology so competitive? It's not because there is a special talent needed to become one (other than manual dexterity). Dermatology has secluded itself as the uber-competitive field that it is for one reason - to limit the number of practicing dermatologists (not to mention that Medicare would NEVER be conviced to fund more dermatology residency spots since in the area of medical need, it just doesn't qualify). Why is Plastic Surgery so competitive? For the same reason. If you don't have the luck to land a categorical residency, you are forced to endure a full surgery residency plus a fellowship. Again - a tactic to limit the number of competing economic factors in a specialty market.

Cosmetic medicine and surgery are well within the general practioner's grasp to learn and refine, if one dedicates the time to mastering the skill. I just think its a dirty little secret for those fields that a non "board-certified specialist" can actually learn and perform (and probably outperform) the same procedures being practiced by those who have specialty training. The response seems to be that a GP can't learn those skills as well as those who do it by training. That's what they said about Cardiologists who do catheterization (Thanks to interventional radiology), about EP's who intubate and ultrasound (Thanks to Anesthesia and Radiology), about FP's who do colonoscopies and deliver babies (thanks IM, GE, and OB), etc...

We are all qualified to do anything we learn and become comfortable doing to patients, as long as we first do no harm.

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

So really - why are fields like Plastic Surgery and Dermatology so competitive? It's not because there is a special talent needed to become one (other than manual dexterity). Dermatology has secluded itself as the uber-competitive field that it is for one reason - to limit the number of practicing dermatologists (not to mention that Medicare would NEVER be conviced to fund more dermatology residency spots since in the area of medical need, it just doesn't qualify). Why is Plastic Surgery so competitive? For the same reason. If you don't have the luck to land a categorical residency, you are forced to endure a full surgery residency plus a fellowship. Again - a tactic to limit the number of competing economic factors in a specialty market.

Cosmetic medicine and surgery are well within the general practioner's grasp to learn and refine, if one dedicates the time to mastering the skill. I just think its a dirty little secret for those fields that a non "board-certified specialist" can actually learn and perform (and probably outperform) the same procedures being practiced by those who have specialty training. The response seems to be that a GP can't learn those skills as well as those who do it by training. That's what they said about Cardiologists who do catheterization (Thanks to interventional radiology), about EP's who intubate and ultrasound (Thanks to Anesthesia and Radiology), about FP's who do colonoscopies and deliver babies (thanks IM, GE, and OB), etc...

We are all qualified to do anything we learn and become comfortable doing to patients, as long as we first do no harm.

 

[Mirror Form]

Cosmetic medicine and surgery are well within the general practioner's grasp to learn and refine, if one dedicates the time to mastering the skill.

Exactly. GP's will have about 1/10th the experience (if that) as a specialist when they try to do specialized procedures. That's why your outcome will usually be better with a specialist.

The response seems to be that a GP can't learn those skills as well as those who do it by training.

No, the response is that they can't do it as well as someone who's had 10x their training and experience.

That's what they said about Cardiologists who do catheterization (Thanks to interventional radiology), about EP's who intubate and ultrasound (Thanks to Anesthesia and Radiology), about FP's who do colonoscopies and deliver babies (thanks IM, GE, and OB), etc...

Cardiologists do cath's all the time, and so do interventional rads guys. They learn it throughouly during their training before going out on their own to practice on real patients w/o backup. Same is true of EP's who intubate and do U/S.

I think most would agree that you're much better off seeing a gastroenterologist for a colonoscopy then seeing an FP. If your mother had blood in her stool, would you tell her that it was fine to just have an FP do the scope? Scoping patients (like surgery) is operator dependant. The person with more experience will be less likely to miss a lesion, and also be less likely to screw up and cause a perforation.

We are all qualified to do anything we learn and become comfortable doing to patients, as long as we first do no harm.

All procedures have risks! Just b/c you can probably do something, doesn't mean you shouldn't let somebody who can do it more safely and accurately do it instead.

 

[NinerNiner999]

Exactly. GP's will have about 1/10th the experience (if that) as a specialist when they try to do specialized procedures. That's why your outcome will usually be better with a specialist.

Agreed - but after 20-30 of the same *simple* procedures (hair plugs, dermabrasion, etc), what else really needs to be learned. You don't need specialty training to do that. I'm not talking about facial reconstruction here...

No, the response is that they can't do it as well as someone who's had 10x their training and experience.

Again, i'm talking about simple procedures that the OP has suggested, no brain surgery or limb fixations...

If your mother had blood in her stool, would you tell her that it was fine to just have an FP do the scope?

Yes I would, please see my response to quote #1. Plus, procedures that are highly operator-dependent further support my suggestion that anyone can learn how to do it...

All procedures have risks! Just b/c you can probably do something, doesn't mean you shouldn't let somebody who can do it more safely and accurately do it instead.

Again, safety and accuracy improve with each procedure performed. Please refer to quote #1 regarding *simple* procedures for further information. I don't honestly think anyone in this thread is suggesting that complicated/high risk procedures should be performed by GP's who aren't specialized in their training, but the thought that simple procedures that can be taught to a monkey should rest solely in the hands of members of the ACD or FACS is ludacris and one of the reasons that helathcare in this country is so grossly out of proportion to the finances that pay its bills.

 

[OnMyWayThere]

I love this thread

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

Funny how threads evolve.

 

[Mirror Form]

Agreed - but after 20-30 of the same *simple* procedures (hair plugs, dermabrasion, etc), what else really needs to be learned. You don't need specialty training to do that. I'm not talking about facial reconstruction here...

I agree that there is the law of diminishing returns. However, somebody who's done over a 1,000 of the said procedure will still do a better job then sombody who's done 20. And what exactly are you defining as "simple" procedures? I'd agree that hair plugs probably could be done by anybody. But other things like blepharoplasty (which requires an OR and anesthesia) will probably have a better cosmetic outcome if done by a specialist with the most experience.

Yes I would, please see my response to quote #1. Plus, procedures that are highly operator-dependent further support my suggestion that anyone can learn how to do it...

Eh? If it's highly operator dependant, that means that somebody with several thousand cases under their belt will be significantly better then sombody with just 20 or 30. And if something is highly operator dependant that would definitely not further the assertion that anyone can learn how to do it, quite the opposite. If something was operator INDEPENDANT, then I would say that anyone could learn it. And besides, even if somebody does learn how to do a certain procedure well, if they're not a specialist in that area, then they might not continue to get enough cases to keep their skills sharp and up to date.

Again, safety and accuracy improve with each procedure performed. Please refer to quote #1 regarding *simple* procedures for further information. I don't honestly think anyone in this thread is suggesting that complicated/high risk procedures should be performed by GP's who aren't specialized in their training, but the thought that simple procedures that can be taught to a monkey should rest solely in the hands of members of the ACD or FACS is ludacris and one of the reasons that helathcare in this country is so grossly out of proportion to the finances that pay its bills.

From what I've seen of GP's doing procedures, they usually do a subpar job. And I'm not talking about complicated stuff either. In my brief experience I've seen fp's who could hardly get a wart off, and also screwed their patients by doing non-excisional bx's on moles, and then letting the wound get infected, and then having to refer them to a real surgeon anyway for the excisional bx that should have just been done in the first place. When I asked the fp's why they did the non-excisional bx's when the patient should just be referred for an excisional bx anyway, the answer was: "b/c it pays the bills."

 

[teep]

I'm wondering if all I need to do is 1 year of internship and then immediately start training as a hair transplant surgeon. I see all these older doc's who went through grueling plastics, urology, and radiology residencies only to switch over into hair transplantation.

I need to do more research and perhaps set up an informal rotation with one of these guys to really get a feel for what they do. Seems like a great field. All cash, no emergencies, no pager, great hours, and you make people happy.

Thread reborn!!

Does anyone know where you can find the state specific requirements to do these procedures. Also, is there anywhere I can find an exhaustive list of possible procedures that can be performed by a PGY 2?
Thanks in advance

 

[Von Hohenheim]

is it just me, or is any else getting a bit sick of DO's trolling around for backdoors and cracks in the system so they can expand beyond their ordained turf (FP) with procedures they should best leave to trained professionals?

as long as intelligent patients will be willing to pay extra for plastic and derm surgeons, i'm not gonna really sweat it. but the hypocrisy of these DO's preaching this "we are the primary care martyrs and the only one's treating the whole patient", all while weasling to get trained in botox and transplant ..... please.

last i checked, you can't OMT follicles into place.

Definately the best post in this thread.

 

[lvspro]

Definately the best post in this thread.

Reminds me of a movie quote
"if god wanted (them) up there, he would of miracled (their) a$$(es) up there... wouldn't he!"