Future Income for Physician? - NYTimes Highest Paid CEOs

[534455]

There is a great deal of posting on SDN about future physician earning potential, paying off student loans and whether a medical student graduate is ever going to have a "comfortable" life while paying off $200K in student loans plus interest.

If you are looking at traditional career tracks with physician income coming from fee reimbursements from third party payers (insurance companies, Medicare, Medicaid, etc), then you might find the following NY Times article of interest. Notice what industries are represented in the top 100 list, and who has the number 2 slot.

HCA (HCA): Richard M. Bracken

You might want to reach for that drink now.

There is money to be made as a future MD, but it might not be in the way you think.


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The Highest-Paid C.E.O.’s
Here are 100 of the most highly paid chief executives at U.S. public companies in 2012. The list, compiled by Equilar, an executive compensation data firm, includes only those companies that had reported through March 29 of this year and had at least $5 billion in annual revenue. The top-paid C.E.O.’s were generally the top-paid in their industry.

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[Anigma07]

There is a great deal of posting on SDN about future physician earning potential, paying off student loans and whether a medical student graduate is ever going to have a "comfortable" life while paying off $200K in student loans plus interest.

If you are looking at traditional career tracks with physician income coming from fee reimbursements from third party payers (insurance companies, Medicare, Medicaid, etc), then you might find the following NY Times article of interest. Notice what industries are represented in the top 100 list, and who has the number 2 slot.

HCA (HCA): Richard M. Bracken

You might want to reach for that drink now.

There is money to be made as a future MD, but it might not be in the way you think.


===

The Highest-Paid C.E.O.’s
Here are 100 of the most highly paid chief executives at U.S. public companies in 2012. The list, compiled by Equilar, an executive compensation data firm, includes only those companies that had reported through March 29 of this year and had at least $5 billion in annual revenue. The top-paid C.E.O.’s were generally the top-paid in their industry.

These people don't have MDs. The CEO of HCA I think only has a masters.

A degree doesn't put you in those types of positions, it's about who you know and how well you can work people.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Yeah these guys usually just have healthcare administration degrees.

It's not all about who you know either. Yes that's a part of it but you don't just walk into a Chief Executive level job. People who end up as CEOs of large corporations like this usually start working in executive level positions in hospitals and then work their way up to managing large branches of the organization. As shocking as it may seem, you usually have to prove that you know how to run a large organization in some capacity before a board of directors thinks about naming you CEO.

 

[obscurehero]

I make it a general rule to laugh at (sometimes just inside my head) anyone who says that because I'm going to be a doctor I'm going to be rich.

I even had one financial planner want to develop a relationship with me based on my future earning potential. I did laugh at him.

 

[534455]

It's lofty to think you're going to be an executive, and much less a CEO, due to an MD Degree.
But you're missing the point and I'm astounded Doctoral students are missing the obvious here

You can easily land a job in these industries with an MD degree in non-traditional venues like Medical Liaison, Medical Director, Medical Division Chief, Regulations, R&D, etc. These are all high paying jobs within these industries that pay significantly more than primary care physician jobs not including benies

Once you get into these industries then you can move up to VP, National Director, Global Director, etc

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

brb going to go be the Medical Director.

Yes, if you like the business/administration side of things more than the clinical side of things there probably will be opportunities for you to have leadership positions within a hospital and possibly work your way to Director/Chief level. Saying you can "easily" land these jobs is a bit much though. If they really are so easy to land in your hospital there's probably a reason nobody wants to do it....

 

[EMquest3]

I make it a general rule to laugh at (sometimes just inside my head) anyone who says that because I'm going to be a doctor I'm going to be rich.

I even had one financial planner want to develop a relationship with me based on my future earning potential. I did laugh at him.

Depends on your definition of "rich." I was raised by a single mom who was a teacher. To me all doctors are rich.

 

[534455]

brb going to go be the Medical Director.

Yes, if you like the business/administration side of things more than the clinical side of things there probably will be opportunities for you to have leadership positions within a hospital and possibly work your way to Director/Chief level. Saying you can "easily" land these jobs is a bit much though. If they really are so easy to land in your hospital there's probably a reason nobody wants to do it....

I like your avatar of Calvin / Hobbes.

Lets try this one last time: Medical Liaison, Product Development, Regulations, R&D, Medical Director / Medical Division Chief jobs in pharmaceutical, biotech, medical device industries, etc etc etc.....the industries mentioned.

Not CEO jobs
Not Hospitals job

Industry jobs

Again, look at the article in light of the industries mentioned.

Making big bucks with an MD in hospitals are a thing of the past.

 

[Anigma07]

brb going to go be the Medical Director.

Yes, if you like the business/administration side of things more than the clinical side of things there probably will be opportunities for you to have leadership positions within a hospital and possibly work your way to Director/Chief level. Saying you can "easily" land these jobs is a bit much though. If they really are so easy to land in your hospital there's probably a reason nobody wants to do it....

+1

And more importantly, no one is going to get an MD consultant without them having LOTS of experience. No medical company is thinking, "hey this guy just got out of med school, lets pay him lots of $ for his advice."

What you are talking about is business, not medicine. Pull your stuff together OP.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

I like your avatar of Calvin / Hobbes.

Lets try this one last time: Medical Liaison, Product Development, Regulations, R&D, Medical Director / Medical Division Chief jobs in pharmaceutical, biotech, medical device industries, etc etc etc.....the industries mentioned.

Not CEO jobs
Not Hospitals job

Industry jobs

Again, look at the article in light of the industries mentioned.

Making big bucks with an MD in hospitals are a thing of the past.

Really? You think it's "easy" to go be a Medical Chief for a pharm or biotech company? You think they're just gonna open up their doors and say "Hey Mr. MD we know you don't have extensive drug development research experience and you're fresh out of residency but would you like a job that earns you more than the 200K you're making right now?".

Oh yeah and they don't want MDs because MDs typically know nothing about drug development. 67% of medical liasons are PharmDs. You should probably do your research before making such overarching statements:

http://www.diahome.org/Tools/Content.aspx?type=eopdf&file=/productfiles/8357/diaj_17753.pdf

 

[link2swim06]

I like your avatar of Calvin / Hobbes.

Lets try this one last time: Medical Liaison, Product Development, Regulations, R&D, Medical Director / Medical Division Chief jobs in pharmaceutical, biotech, medical device industries, etc etc etc.....the industries mentioned.

Not CEO jobs
Not Hospitals job

Industry jobs

Again, look at the article in light of the industries mentioned.

Making big bucks with an MD in hospitals are a thing of the past.

Making 200K-500K per year isn't big bucks?

Personally I rather enjoy my life/work than work some ****ty admin job to make a few extra hundred thousand.

With a 300K salary I can easily pay back my loans, buy a house, a car, a boat, and go on plenty of vacations. What more do you want?

 

[Silent Cool]

Making 200K-500K per year isn't big bucks?

Personally I rather enjoy my life/work than work some ****ty admin job to make a few extra hundred thousand.

With a 300K salary I can easily pay back my loans, buy a house, a car, a boat, and go on plenty of vacations. What more do you want?

LOL, yeah, some guy in the Anesthesia forum said "450K isn't very much money." Srsly???

 

[docnotsopc]

Depends on your definition of "rich." I was raised by a single mom who was a teacher. To me all doctors are rich.

Especially considering a salary 140k puts you in the top 10%, and a salary of 180k puts you in the top 5%........383k to be in the top 1% of the US........

Ya, i would say we as soon to be doctors are good to go

Making 200K-500K per year isn't big bucks?

Personally I rather enjoy my life/work than work some ****ty admin job to make a few extra hundred thousand.

With a 300K salary I can easily pay back my loans, buy a house, a car, a boat, and go on plenty of vacations. What more do you want?

yeeeeeeep

 

[NJDevilsFan]

140K is more than I've ever seen. My parents were both teachers who struggled to help put me through school I feel very fortunate to be at this juncture in my career/education.

 

[notbobtrustme]

I think a big problem with salaries is that we start having salary inflation. We look to our future income and then compare that against other high earners and conclude we aren't earning enough. We hardly ever compare in reverse, looking back to our previous income potential.

Secondly, that list of CEOs is listing the rockstars of their fields. It's like comparing the salaries of A-Rod, Michael Jordan and Tom Brady to the average joe schmo out there. They aren't average people and neither are those CEOs.

 

[534455]

It is good to see so many MD students responding to this thread, albeit after educating them several times about looking at the industries vs the CEO title. I did, however, make an error. I assumed you were experienced at having a former career or a lucrative job. Live and learn. I'll continue to see most of you as former McDonald's employees....

There are numerous jobs in the industries mentioned in the NY Times articles for MDs. They're pretty easy to gain if you have a personality, can interact well with people (most on SDN can not), are outgoing and can walk and talk science in addition to having persuasive reasoning skills. Almost all Medical Director, Medical Division Chief, Regulations, R&D, etc.Medical Director jobs in these industries are held by MDs, MD/PhDs and some have PharmD but not many on the latter: Medical Division Chief of Oncology of X Biotech, Medical Director of HIV/AIDS for X Pharma, Director for R& D for X Medical Device Company, etc. The easier jobs to get are the Clinical Liaison jobs which are traditionally filled with PharmDs b/c they are leaving Walgreens and CVS in droves, do not require the same type of medical knowledge that an MD has in Medical Director jobs, and are lower paying ($175K). But they're still sweet jobs considering the amount of "work" Clinical Liaisons have to do, plus all the benefits.

You do know the value of benefits right?
Oh I forgot: mommy and daddy are paying for theirs and have you included in their plans.
Gotcha.

If you can find a hospital that pays an MD $300K, jump on it. But if you tell physicians in primary care practice that, they'll laugh you out of their office, rightly so. They don't exist in large numbers, other than Executive positions, or the dreaded hospitalist doctor that earns, maybe, $150K. Lousy career that one!

On a lighter note, I am glad to see as an MD student that SDN MD students are relying on fee for service / third party reimbursement business models for their income. It is clearing the way for future MDs and current drivers who want to make real money.

 

[EMquest3]

It is good to see so many MD students responding to this thread, albeit after educating them several times about looking at the industries vs the CEO title. I did, however, make an error. I assumed you were experienced at having a former career or a lucrative job. Live and learn. I'll continue to see most of you as former McDonald's employees....

There are numerous jobs in the industries mentioned in the NY Times articles for MDs. They're pretty easy to gain if you have a personality, can interact well with people (most on SDN can not), are outgoing and can walk and talk science in addition to having persuasive reasoning skills. Almost all Medical Director, Medical Division Chief, Regulations, R&D, etc.Medical Director jobs in these industries are held by MDs, MD/PhDs and some have PharmD but not many on the latter: Medical Division Chief of Oncology of X Biotech, Medical Director of HIV/AIDS for X Pharma, Director for R& D for X Medical Device Company, etc. The easier jobs to get are the Clinical Liaison jobs which are traditionally filled with PharmDs b/c they are leaving Walgreens and CVS in droves, do not require the same type of medical knowledge that an MD has in Medical Director jobs, and are lower paying ($175K). But they're still sweet jobs considering the amount of "work" Clinical Liaisons have to do, plus all the benefits.

You do know the value of benefits right?
Oh I forgot: mommy and daddy are paying for theirs and have you included in their plans.
Gotcha.

If you can find a hospital that pays an MD $300K, jump on it. But if you tell physicians in primary care practice that, they'll laugh you out of their office, rightly so. They don't exist in large numbers, other than Executive positions, or the dreaded hospitalist doctor that earns, maybe, $150K. Lousy career that one!

On a lighter note, I am glad to see as an MD student that SDN MD students are relying on fee for service / third party reimbursement business models for their income. It is clearing the way for future MDs and current drivers who want to make real money.

Where are you seeing hospitalists making 150k? The graduating residents I know that took hospitalist positions were all in the 220-275 range + benefits. the lower range was at their home academic institution.

 

[Smokemont]

It is good to see so many MD students responding to this thread, albeit after educating them several times about looking at the industries vs the CEO title. I did, however, make an error. I assumed you were experienced at having a former career or a lucrative job. Live and learn. I'll continue to see most of you as former McDonald's employees....

There are numerous jobs in the industries mentioned in the NY Times articles for MDs. They're pretty easy to gain if you have a personality, can interact well with people (most on SDN can not), are outgoing and can walk and talk science in addition to having persuasive reasoning skills. Almost all Medical Director, Medical Division Chief, Regulations, R&D, etc.Medical Director jobs in these industries are held by MDs, MD/PhDs and some have PharmD but not many on the latter: Medical Division Chief of Oncology of X Biotech, Medical Director of HIV/AIDS for X Pharma, Director for R& D for X Medical Device Company, etc. The easier jobs to get are the Clinical Liaison jobs which are traditionally filled with PharmDs b/c they are leaving Walgreens and CVS in droves, do not require the same type of medical knowledge that an MD has in Medical Director jobs, and are lower paying ($175K). But they're still sweet jobs considering the amount of "work" Clinical Liaisons have to do, plus all the benefits.

You do know the value of benefits right?
Oh I forgot: mommy and daddy are paying for theirs and have you included in their plans.
Gotcha.

If you can find a hospital that pays an MD $300K, jump on it. But if you tell physicians in primary care practice that, they'll laugh you out of their office, rightly so. They don't exist in large numbers, other than Executive positions, or the dreaded hospitalist doctor that earns, maybe, $150K. Lousy career that one!

On a lighter note, I am glad to see as an MD student that SDN MD students are relying on fee for service / third party reimbursement business models for their income. It is clearing the way for future MDs and current drivers who want to make real money.

what, in the hell, are you talking about

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Seriously dude I wish I lived in your dream world where newly minted FM and IM docs get to walk out of residency and become the Medical Director of a company. It would make life so much easier for all of us.

Half of your last post actually makes no sense and the other half consists of general insults towards...people on SDN I guess? Hey make sure you let us know when you get that Medical Director job out of residency so we can send you some Congratulations cards.

 

[Anigma07]

It is good to see so many MD students responding to this thread, albeit after educating them several times about looking at the industries vs the CEO title. I did, however, make an error. I assumed you were experienced at having a former career or a lucrative job. Live and learn. I'll continue to see most of you as former McDonald's employees....

There are numerous jobs in the industries mentioned in the NY Times articles for MDs. They're pretty easy to gain if you have a personality, can interact well with people (most on SDN can not), are outgoing and can walk and talk science in addition to having persuasive reasoning skills. Almost all Medical Director, Medical Division Chief, Regulations, R&D, etc.Medical Director jobs in these industries are held by MDs, MD/PhDs and some have PharmD but not many on the latter: Medical Division Chief of Oncology of X Biotech, Medical Director of HIV/AIDS for X Pharma, Director for R& D for X Medical Device Company, etc. The easier jobs to get are the Clinical Liaison jobs which are traditionally filled with PharmDs b/c they are leaving Walgreens and CVS in droves, do not require the same type of medical knowledge that an MD has in Medical Director jobs, and are lower paying ($175K). But they're still sweet jobs considering the amount of "work" Clinical Liaisons have to do, plus all the benefits.

You do know the value of benefits right?
Oh I forgot: mommy and daddy are paying for theirs and have you included in their plans.
Gotcha.

If you can find a hospital that pays an MD $300K, jump on it. But if you tell physicians in primary care practice that, they'll laugh you out of their office, rightly so. They don't exist in large numbers, other than Executive positions, or the dreaded hospitalist doctor that earns, maybe, $150K. Lousy career that one!

On a lighter note, I am glad to see as an MD student that SDN MD students are relying on fee for service / third party reimbursement business models for their income. It is clearing the way for future MDs and current drivers who want to make real money.

Why would someone with a former lucrative job leave that for medical school-- and then complain about income?

Are you even in medical school? You should probably stop where you are and save yourself more embarrassment.

 

[ED50]

Haha, what a funny OP. I forgot for a sec that this is SDN, where 'if you making less then 1 mil you a chump.' And as an aside, most of us went to medical school to actually be doctors (gasp!) and not a CEO or admin.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Haha, what a funny OP. I forgot for a sec that this is SDN, where 'if you making less then 1 mil you a chump.' And as an aside, most of us went to medical school to actually be doctors (gasp!) and not a CEO or admin.

No man don't you know? After making it through med school and residency you can finally walk out to doing your dream job of shuffling papers all day!!

 

[mycatishuge]

Here is some real life experience: many MDs from top 10 medical schools apply to be mere entry-level consultants at companies like Boston consulting group and accentuate, and very few make it even to interviews, let alone get an offer.
What you are doing is looking at tiger woods play and think, 'eh...he gets paid that much money for hitting a ball with a club. I can stand up and hold a club and hit a ball. I bet I can play way better than tiger.' Contrary to popular belief, CEOs are not idiots off the street. They are incredibly smart people with a talent for management and leadership. Have you ever had a chance to interview your medicine dept chair? Try doing that and you will see why that person is there. CEOs are no less, if not smarter, than our medical school dean.
Go focus on the shelf exam.

 

[CDI]

Here is some real life experience: many MDs from top 10 medical schools apply to be mere entry-level consultants at companies like Boston consulting group and accentuate, and very few make it even to interviews, let alone get an offer.
What you are doing is looking at tiger woods play and think, 'eh...he gets paid that much money for hitting a ball with a club. I can stand up and hold a club and hit a ball. I bet I can play way better than tiger.' Contrary to popular belief, CEOs are not idiots off the street. They are incredibly smart people with a talent for management and leadership. Have you ever had a chance to interview your medicine dept chair? Try doing that and you will see why that person is there. CEOs are no less, if not smarter, than our medical school dean.
Go focus on the shelf exam.

I tested this out actually, because I was curious to see if I didn't chose the clinical route - what would an MD (or MBBS) be worth out in the open market. I had no intention of actually going through with it, but I just threw my resume out there anyways to see who would bite.

One of the MBB consulting firms that you didn't mention responded within 24 hours and set me up an interview for an MBA-level position. I would have made as much as a hospitalist in a city as my starting salary + bonus, right out of med school. (Btw, I'm an IMG from a fairly new school with no reputation at all.)

After receiving that interview, I decided not to burn any bridges and didn't send my resume out further in case that's a route I choose to go someday.

 

[thefritz]

Really? You think it's "easy" to go be a Medical Chief for a pharm or biotech company? You think they're just gonna open up their doors and say "Hey Mr. MD we know you don't have extensive drug development research experience and you're fresh out of residency but would you like a job that earns you more than the 200K you're making right now?".

Oh yeah and they don't want MDs because MDs typically know nothing about drug development. 67% of medical liasons are PharmDs. You should probably do your research before making such overarching statements:

http://www.diahome.org/Tools/Content.aspx?type=eopdf&file=/productfiles/8357/diaj_17753.pdf

I see you're dumping **** on threads all over the place.

Attitudes like yours highlight the problem in medicine. You want to be rich but you don't want to take any risk or have to start at the bottom and make the big bucks immediately. Medical school used to provide a path to do this by its cartel-like protection of income and limitation of competition. This will soon be a thing of the past. Sorry.

Feel free to google more random crap to discredit me and not have to consider the possibility that you will not in fact be presented with a monstrous salary from a hospital upon completion of your residency and go on cruise control for the rest of your life without ever having to worry about money again.

 

[CDI]

Making 200K-500K per year isn't big bucks?

Personally I rather enjoy my life/work than work some ****ty admin job to make a few extra hundred thousand.

With a 300K salary I can easily pay back my loans, buy a house, a car, a boat, and go on plenty of vacations. What more do you want?

For starters, I don't see "private jet" or "professional sports franchise ownership" in there...

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

I see you're dumping **** on threads all over the place.

Attitudes like yours highlight the problem in medicine. You want to be rich but you don't want to take any risk or have to start at the bottom and make the big bucks immediately. Medical school used to provide a path to do this by its cartel-like protection of income and limitation of competition. This will soon be a thing of the past. Sorry.

Feel free to google more random crap to discredit me and not have to consider the possibility that you will not in fact be presented with a monstrous salary from a hospital upon completion of your residency and go on cruise control for the rest of your life without ever having to worry about money again.

Dude when did I ever say I wanted to be rich? Or even say anyone would get presented with a monstrous salary from a hospital? What?

 

[thefritz]

On a lighter note, I am glad to see as an MD student that SDN MD students are relying on fee for service / third party reimbursement business models for their income. It is clearing the way for future MDs and current drivers who want to make real money.

No, it's even better than that. They, citing average pay of specialists, are ironically setting their sights on salaried positions from hospitals and private practices.

 

[thefritz]

Dude when did I ever say I wanted to be rich? Or even say anyone would get presented with a monstrous salary from a hospital? What?

You posted links to numerous web pages to try and prove that most doctors get paid salaries, on average in the $200k range, which I would consider monstrous, given that a 'salary' of that much is virtually unobtainable in any other field.

I am curious what you consider rich and a monstrous salary.
You not wanting to be rich puts you in a small minority of medical students.

 

[jw3600]

You posted links to numerous web pages to try and prove that most doctors get paid salaries, on average in the $200k range, which I would consider monstrous, given that a 'salary' of that much is virtually unobtainable in any other field.

I am curious what you consider rich and a monstrous salary.
You not wanting to be rich puts you in a small minority of medical students.

Lol. Wut.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

You posted links to numerous web pages to try and prove that most doctors get paid salaries, on average in the $200k range, which I would consider monstrous, given that a 'salary' of that much is virtually unobtainable in any other field.

I am curious what you consider rich and a monstrous salary.
You not wanting to be rich puts you in a small minority of medical students.

That was absolutely not my point in posting of any of those pages. I made no mention of the amount of salaries at any point besides the one time I suggested that specialists on average make more money than PCPs (which is correct at this point and time). I'm not sure where you got that idea from.

Either way, that discussion was not in this thread.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

I tested this out actually, because I was curious to see if I didn't chose the clinical route - what would an MD (or MBBS) be worth out in the open market. I had no intention of actually going through with it, but I just threw my resume out there anyways to see who would bite.

One of the MBB consulting firms that you didn't mention responded within 24 hours and set me up an interview for an MBA-level position. I would have made as much as a hospitalist in a city as my starting salary + bonus, right out of med school. (Btw, I'm an IMG from a fairly new school with no reputation at all.)

After receiving that interview, I decided not to burn any bridges and didn't send my resume out further in case that's a route I choose to go someday.

I'd actually be interested to know how you did this. How did you apply for a job that you wouldn't be able to start for a couple years? I'm assuming since you just took Step 1 that you're still a couple years removed from actually graduating.

 

[CDI]

I'd actually be interested to know how you did this. How did you apply for a job that you wouldn't be able to start for a couple years? I'm assuming since you just took Step 1 that you're still a couple years removed from actually graduating.

I'm literally an IMG (graduated). I finished up my med school/intern year last summer overseas.

 

[thefritz]

That was absolutely not my point in posting of any of those pages. I made no mention of the amount of salaries at any point besides the one time I suggested that specialists on average make more money than PCPs (which is correct at this point and time). I'm not sure where you got that idea from.

Either way, that discussion was not in this thread.

if it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck...

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

if it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck...

wat

 

[mycatishuge]

I'd actually be interested to know how you did this. How did you apply for a job that you wouldn't be able to start for a couple years? I'm assuming since you just took Step 1 that you're still a couple years removed from actually graduating.

On SDN, I can claim to be superman. When the poster actually lands a relevant job, he can report back and we can listen to what he has to say.

 

[CDI]

On SDN, I can claim to be superman. When the poster actually lands a relevant job, he can report back and we can listen to what he has to say.

Yes, cause the guy who just last night openly posted about getting a Step 1 score of a whopping 217 here on SDN is highly likely to lie. You'd make a horrendous physician with your skeptical reasoning.

Would you like to see the interview invite letter? Put money down on it, unless you're scared. ;-)

One of the people I actually interviewed with is a Harvard trained physician (still practicing) and also a consultant as well.

 

[EMquest3]

Yes, cause the guy who just last night openly posted about getting a Step 1 score of a whopping 217 here on SDN is highly likely to lie. You'd make a horrendous physician with your skeptical reasoning.

Would you like to see the interview invite letter? Put money down on it, unless you're scared. ;-)

One of the people I actually interviewed with is a Harvard trained physician (still practicing) and also a consultant as well.

So far you would have us believe you lied to a consulting firm about how far along you are in medical school to get an interview AND interviewed for a job you absolutely couldn't take, but you want everyone to believe you're above lying because you posted about a sub par Step 1 score?

 

[CDI]

So far you would have us believe you lied to a consulting firm about how far along you are in medical school to get an interview AND interviewed for a job you absolutely couldn't take, but you want everyone to believe you're above lying because you posted about a sub par Step 1 score?

What are you talking about? Lied to a consulting firm? Did you not read anything or at least the part where I said I was already a graduate when I applied? Reading comprehension, my friend. I could absolutely take the job had I been offered the spot/and if it was my goal. I'm an IMG who finished LAST summer. I interviewed LAST fall. Its simple math.

 

[EMquest3]

What are you talking about? Lied to a consulting firm? Did you not read anything or at least the part where I said I was already a graduate when I applied? Reading comprehension, my friend. I could absolutely take the job had I been offered the spot/and if it was my goal. I'm an IMG who finished LAST summer. I interviewed LAST fall. Its simple math.

I missed the post where you said you are an IMG, I doubt reading comprehension applies to a case of simply not seeing a post. I still find a measure of dishonesty in taking an interview when you say "After receiving that interview, I decided not to burn any bridges and didn't send my resume out further in case that's a route I choose to go someday." The "someday" obviously implies you weren't serious about a consulting job at that time.

 

[CDI]

I missed the post where you said you are an IMG, I doubt reading comprehension applies to a case of simply not seeing a post. I still find a measure of dishonesty in taking an interview when you say "After receiving that interview, I decided not to burn any bridges and didn't send my resume out further in case that's a route I choose to go someday." The "someday" obviously implies you weren't serious about a consulting job at that time.

Nope. I wasn't serious when I applied. I was honestly testing to see an MBBS degrees worth. (I said that in the very first post I made.)

Was I dishonest when applying? I'm not sure. Do people apply to safety schools or programs and go on interviews for practice?

Had I landed the offer and seen the $, then maybe I would have tried it out after all. I just knew that at that time, I wasn't expecting this firm to even look at me. I question if they had made a mistake that day and accidentally invited me. Truth is, if I was the one sifting through the applications, I would've rejected my own app. There's your honesty.

 

[Wordead]

I missed the post where you said you are an IMG, I doubt reading comprehension applies to a case of simply not seeing a post. I still find a measure of dishonesty in taking an interview when you say "After receiving that interview, I decided not to burn any bridges and didn't send my resume out further in case that's a route I choose to go someday." The "someday" obviously implies you weren't serious about a consulting job at that time.

You've obviously never worked before. That's standard practice. People go on interviews all the time, knowing full well they wouldn't take the job, just to 1. practice for an interview in that field, 2. get the job and leverage it against an existing offer for higher pay.

And probably other reasons I'm not even familiar with.

 

[CDI]

Btw, it's called an "APD hire" if anyones interested further. They hire MDs, JDs and PhDs at the MBA level.

 

[EMquest3]

Nope. I wasn't serious when I applied. I was honestly testing to see an MBBS degrees worth. (I said that in the very first post I made.)

Was I dishonest when applying? I'm not sure. Do people apply to safety schools or programs and go on interviews for practice?

Had I landed the offer and seen the $, then maybe I would have tried it out after all. I just knew that at that time, I wasn't expecting this firm to even look at me. I question if they had made a mistake that day and accidentally invited me. Truth is, if I was the one sifting through the applications, I would've rejected my own app. There's your honesty.

The fact that you owned up to your dishonesty in your first post doesn't invalid my original point. You mentioned a post about your step score as evidence of your honesty after describing a situation where you were dishonest. I'm not condemning CDI as a criminal, just pointing out the silliness of pointing to one post to prove you're honest while having admitted to being dishonest in the same thread.

 

[EMquest3]

You've obviously never worked before. That's standard practice. People go on interviews all the time, knowing full well they wouldn't take the job, just to 1. practice for an interview in that field, 2. get the job and leverage it against an existing offer for higher pay.

And probably other reasons I'm not even familiar with.

There's that saying about assuming, I forget how it goes I'm sure you can look it up. I actually worked for many years before med school. If you go on a job interview with absolutely no intention of taking the job then you are being dishonest. I don't care if lots of people do it. Lots of people commit crimes, but that doesn't make it ok.

 

[CDI]

The fact that you owned up to your dishonesty in your first post doesn't invalid my original point. You mentioned a post about your step score as evidence of your honesty after describing a situation where you were dishonest.

I'm confused. What exactly is it that you are seeking to get out of commenting?

My original intent was always clear to me. I was testing the market. You can call it "dishonest", whereas I don't consider it as such. It's called networking. I never had to lie at any point in the process. An interviewer even came up to me after one of the cases and asked if I'd be interested in joining a certain location. I immediately said no, effectively ending any shot at further progression of the interview process.

 

[CDI]

There's that saying about assuming, I forget how it goes I'm sure you can look it up. I actually worked for many years before med school. If you go on a job interview with absolutely no intention of taking the job then you are being dishonest. I don't care if lots of people do it. Lots of people commit crimes, but that doesn't make it ok.

You're comparing interviewing to criminal activity? I think you may need help.

Plenty of people interview for many residency spots as "practice" for yheir target programs. Are they being 'dishonest'? They know their true intent. They never lied. It's up to the PROGRAM (in my case, the firm) to convince them at that point to join them. If they do bad job or dont impress enough, the candidate may turn down (or not rank) the place.

 

[EMquest3]

You're comparing interviewing to criminal activity? I think you may need help.

Plenty of people interview for many residency spots as "practice" for yheir target programs. Are they being 'dishonest'? They know their true intent. They never lied. It's up to the PROGRAM (in my case, the firm) to convince them at that point.

You can end up at any of those residency programs, no one is being dishonest unless they go to the interview knowing they will not rank the program. It's hard for me to believe you can't see the difference in these situations.

I wasn't comparing interviewing to crimes I was simply pointing out the fallacy of saying "lots of people do x" as a way of arguing that x is not a bad thing to do. It's funny that you tried to comment on my reading comprehension earlier, while yours has failed you so miserably here.

 

[CDI]

You can end up at any of those residency programs, no one is being dishonest unless they go to the interview knowing they will not going to rank the program. It's hard for me to believe you can't see the difference in these situations.

Huh?

We apply, get and attend interviews and then some choose NOT to rank the programs AFTER the interviews for whatever reasons. You can't end up at them when you don't even rank them.

It's hard for me to believe I would even bother to explain all of this.

 

[EMquest3]

Huh?

We apply, get and attend interviews and then some choose NOT to rank the programs AFTER the interviews for whatever reasons. You can't end up at them when you don't even rank them.

It's hard for me to believe I would even bother to explain all of this.

I said the only dishonesty would be going to interview if you ALREADY knew you weren't ranking the place. It's not bad to decide after the fact that you don't want a job. This is seriously common sense, maybe you're just trolling now...