Gen Chem 2 sucks

[emttim]

Granted, I'm stating the obvious, but I figured since I'm here at starbucks reading the pre-allo forum instead of studying for my third chem exam of the semester, I figured I'd give those of you a warning who haven't taken gen chem 2 already.

Try not to take it with a math class, such as calculus, because I am fully convinced this class is just a crapload of memorizing equations, spitting them out on exams, and then plugging and chugging with your calculator to find some obscure number that you really don't give a damn about. Now, if you would love to have nothing but math for all your classes for the semester, like I ended up doing with calc 1 and gen chem 2, by all means go for it...but I warned you.

On the other hand though, gen chem 2 isn't really that hard imo, so there's not really a whole lot of difficulty to be worried about...it's just time-consuming and difficult to look at for more than 15-20 minutes because it's just a math class.

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[LikeClockWork]

I think Gen Chem 2 is hard just about everywhere. It was the weed-out class for the pre-professional routes at my school. The number of pre-med or pre-vet students was usually cut in half after the spring offereing of GC 2.

 

[chizledfrmstone]

are you seriously complaining about calc and chem?

I have a feeling the rest of college will suck for him...

 

[dontwakeme]

Don't worry, Calc II is a lot easier. Same case with orgo.

Not.

Seriously, when I look back on my undergrad career, I wish I could go back to courses like General Chemistry and Calc I, it was all so straightforward and comforting. Granted, it always seems hard at the time, but in retrospect they're probably two of the most straightforward classes you'll take as a premed.

 

[Rotinaj]

I've always heard that the biggest bear of them all is Organic Chemistry, but even so, I've never heard anyone say it was beyond learning. Everyone who's gone through it and came out with an A said that it was work, but it simply took persistence in memorizing a lot of the information. I think that some people think that just because they got by without studying in high school means that college should be about the same. Really though, it's not their fault. I remember in gradeschool they said that we couldn't slack anymore because junior high was going to require 2 hours a night in homework: minimum, which we all found out was bull****. Then they said that highschool was even worse, but most good students got A's with maybe 30 minutes a night on the average. College is where it actually gets somewhat challenging for once. In college, even the most brilliant of students have to do the busy work and put in some study time to get an A. The classes are usually designed to factor in work ethic on the assumption that while a professor's primary job is to make the information accessible to students, their secondary job is to weed out laziness and people who won't put forth the effort. That's why many jobs don't require specific degrees, just any degree. It means that you've got the work ethic and drive to stick to a long term goal.

 

[TimeResonance]

Wow...lay off the OP. he is just trying to help people. Compared to the other classes i took as a freshman gen chem 2 was one of the harder ones. I even had to read the book and do problems. I know imagine actually reading the book. It was a long time ago and it seems really easy looking back. However, at the time it was not easy. I do know it prepared me to handle organic, physics, and the upper level bios. Let him vent and warn. Not everyone loves the same subjects. if an engineer posts saying how easy math oriented classes are should we be suprised? I know people who would laugh at the schedule nechmj posted and say it was "taking the easy way out". It is all relative to personal strengths.

 

[emttim]

he's probably pouring hot coffee on himself right now

Actually, I'm laughing at how many idiots responded to this thread within an hour of it being posted.

I'm with Time Resonance on this one. The degree of maturity displayed here, when I was trying to offer some advice to people who haven't yet taken those classes, not complaining, is rather poor and hopefully not indicative of the future generation of doctors.

I'd have just a slight amount of trepidation if someone with the thought process (or lack thereof) of some of the people who responded to this thread ended up being my doctor some day.

And ironically, I even pointed out gen chem 2 is easy, just boring, so the onslaught of "omg it gets soooo much harder u r so screwed hahaha" responses just makes me shake my head. I can't remember specifically when, but I think I remembered the difference between the words "easy" and "boring" in grade school. If some of you people haven't, then shame on your elementary teachers.

 

[midn]

im taking the easy way out? we're talking about general courses that he's taking, not advanced courses so personal strengths should not matter here. and those courses are part of the premed curriculum (not just the engineering curriculum) so he/she should be good at those. don't make excuses like "ooooo they're for engineers," try saying that at your interviews and see how it goes

Dude, chill out. You seem to be attacking a lot of posters lately.

 

[HumidBeing]

LOL Isn't wonderful how Emttim's post meant to warn people that chem II is just math & more math, went straight to other posts of "my classes are more difficult than yours" puffery. Sheesh! He wasn't even complaining that it's too hard, only that he's tired of so much math this semester.

OP, I was luckier than you this term. I took it with finite math & physics. It was a happy surprise to find that what we were covering in math at the beginning of the semester was going straight to use in the other classes. I like it when classes reinforce each other that way. It affected me the opposite way; I wound up registering for an extra math class next semester.

The semester is nearly over. Soon you'll have that gen chem II behind you. Enjoy your coffee! What flavor is it?

 

[emttim]

LOL Isn't wonderful how Emttim's post meant to warn people that chem II is just math & more math, went straight to other posts of "my classes are more difficult than yours" puffery. Sheesh! He wasn't even complaining that it's too hard, only that he's tired of so much math this semester.

OP, I was luckier than you this term. I took it with finite math & physics. It was a happy surprise to find that what we were covering in math at the beginning of the semester was going straight to use in the other classes. I like it when classes reinforce each other that way. It affected me the opposite way; I wound up registering for an extra math class next semester.

The semester is nearly over. Soon you'll have that gen chem II behind you. Enjoy your coffee! What flavor is it?

You actually enjoyed taking three math classes at the same time? And registered for an extra one next semester? Sheesh, hats off to you...I could never be that interested in math, even if the classes did reinforce each other.

I actually was drinking green tea, but normally for coffee I get either white mochas or caramel macchiatos. I don't drink coffee too much anymore because four bucks a pop gets expensive real fast...cheaper to drink tea or water.

Only math class I'm registered for next semester is calc II though...should be a pretty chill semester since the rest of the classes can be considered easy. Well, except for Japanese 1, although judging by the feedback on the teacher, he actually makes that class fun and easy despite it being such a difficult language to learn.

 

[emttim]

let me ask you this
if a student can't handle two simple beginner courses, what can he or she handle? i don't care if this applies to you

It's not a matter of whether the student can handle them, it's whether someone wants to take multiple boring (IE math) classes at the same time if it can be avoided. I've said twice now gen chem 2 is easy. I'm not going to even bother with you because clearly you can't understand English too well, and I don't know how to say "gen chem 2 is easy" in any other language, so I guess I can't help you. I'd be surprised if you figured out how to speak another language anyway, as far as that goes.

 

[HumidBeing]

Yes, I did & it probably would have stressed me out, too, if it weren't for the fact that they all seemed so related. Each time I study for one, it just reinforces the others. I've learned that I enjoy math classes - when the instructor is good. I've got a programming class too, and that's the same type of thinking as math, but it's easy, easy, easy. It's nice to have at least one class that qualifies as recreation.

All I've done all day is type up physics lab reports, study physics, and study math. Such an exciting Sunday! I feel better about the rest of the week, now, though. (Well, there's been a considerable amount of cruising the net interspersed with the studying.)

 

[HumidBeing]

freshman classes are meant to be taken freshman year or you'll be behind

There are very few "freshman" classes. English qualifies, and so classes like College 101, orientation type classes. The rest that I can think of are considered intro classes, which are either taken to sample a discipline, or as the lead courses to further study of the subject. Those can be taken anytime, as long as there is time to complete the series.

I'm saving at least one "freshman" class until senior year because that's what will work for me.

 

[Vvandenn]

I'm taking Organic as we speak and I am finding that gen chem is STILL a lot harder. I think it just depends on who your professor is to an extent.

 

[emttim]

Yes, I did & it probably would have stressed me out, too, if it weren't for the fact that they all seemed so related. Each time I study for one, it just reinforces the others. I've learned that I enjoy math classes - when the instructor is good. I've got a programming class too, and that's the same type of thinking as math, but it's easy, easy, easy. It's nice to have at least one class that qualifies as recreation.

All I've done all day is type up physics lab reports, study physics, and study math. Such an exciting Sunday! I feel better about the rest of the week, now, though. (Well, there's been a considerable amount of cruising the net interspersed with the studying.)

Well hey, as long as you're having fun, that's all that counts! I'm just working through the exercise problems for the two chapters that will be on the exam...like I said, the material is easy so basically memorizing the equations and being comfortable using them is the extent of my studying, lol. I actually am the same way with math, come to think of it...my algebra (yes, I had to retake basic & intermediate algebra, never used the stuff) teacher and my pre-calc teacher were awesome so I didn't mind those classes at all. The material in calc 1 itself isn't really too bad either; I just hate my teacher, hence I hate the class. My gen chem 2 teacher is awesome though, but I still hate the class, mostly because math gets boring real fast for me and the labs are even worse as far as boredom goes. Well, most of them. The ones that involve testing for combustion are pretty fun when the gas does combust...blowing **** up in lab gets my vote any day.

I'm taking Organic as we speak and I am finding that gen chem is STILL a lot harder. I think it just depends on who your professor is to an extent.

Right, doesn't matter what the class is, it really does boil down to the teacher. Hopefully I'll get a good teacher for organic. We covered some basic organic chemistry over two weeks in my gen chem 2 class and I found the material a lot more interesting than general chemistry. I'd much rather learn about aldehydes, ketones, carboxyls, etc. than reaction rates and entropy. Plus the organic labs were pretty cool too...but I'd prefer to never smell an ether again in my life. Although the last call I teched at work, the patient smelled a lot worse (well their cellulitis did, the patient herself didn't smell per se), so guess the ether stench isn't /that/ bad.

 

[Rotinaj]

I'm taking Organic as we speak and I am finding that gen chem is STILL a lot harder. I think it just depends on who your professor is to an extent.

I hope this is the case. Cen Chem has been a lot of fun right so far and really not too difficult. It's like any math class, it just requires practice.

 

[scott8013]

i agree wholeheartedly with the OPs original assessment of GenChem - I'm taking orgo now and can't believe how much more interesting and engaging the material is - probably has a lot to do with the professor.

Additionally - i've been reading a lot of posts on a few forums, and haven't really posted on many yet - but the thing that had attracted me to SDN was the overriding positive vibes and helpful nature.

I had posted on another site with a similar forum and the vast majority of the responses were the same, somewhat childish comparisons of premed status, I like how most of the posts on this site actually seem to lack that air of "dear OP, I am better than you" until I read some of the responses on this thread. Here's hoping this doesn't become a trend.

 

[HumidBeing]

don't be ridiculous, are you saying that you would leave calc or chem until senior year? they are supposed to be taken freshman year. OP says that you shouldn't take them together because it would suck but you would have to take them some day with possibly even crappier classes

pick your poison

Now, where did anyone say they were waiting until senior year to take either of those? I have seen some college course sequences for engineering majors where they don't take much besides engineering courses. In fact, my dad says that in his day they even had their own English course. It was totally directed to technical writing. They avoided the traditional composition and literature courses. Perhaps you're in something like that. Most of the rest of us are in programs that require a certain minimum number of gen. ed, arts & humanities, and social science courses in order to obtain our degrees. Quite a few advisors funnel freshmen into those class, and dissuade them from taking both bio and chem that first year.

Many students are not taking any chemistry classes beyond ochem. Chem -> ochem is just a two year sequence. So, starting either freshman or sophomore year works out. Also, not every major requires calculus.

The required "freshman" course that I happen to be holding back on taking is art appreciation. I was immersed in the fine and performing arts throughout my K-12 years. I have a strong background there. I want to save an easy required course for my final year.

 

[emttim]

Now, where did anyone say they were waiting until senior year to take either of those? I have seen some college course sequences for engineering majors where they don't take much besides engineering courses. In fact, my dad says that in his day they even had their own English course. It was totally directed to technical writing. They avoided the traditional composition and literature courses. Perhaps you're in something like that. Most of the rest of us are in programs that require a certain minimum number of gen. ed, arts & humanities, and social science courses in order to obtain our degrees. Quite a few advisors funnel freshmen into those class, and dissuade them from taking both bio and chem that first year.

Many students are not taking any chemistry classes beyond ochem. Chem -> ochem is just a two year sequence. So, starting either freshman or sophomore year works out. Also, not every major requires calculus.

The required "freshman" course that I happen to be holding back on taking is art appreciation. I was immersed in the fine and performing arts throughout my K-12 years. I have a strong background there. I want to save an easy required course for my final year.

Actually, I'd caution people to /not/ follow the advice of their advisors if their advice is to not take bio or chem early on. Granted, taking several math classes at the same time will bore the hell out of most people, but the reason it's going to take me 5 years instead of 4 to graduate is because I took all general ed classes in my first and second years because that's what the counselor told me to do. After all that, I still obviously had to do my lower div anyway, so now I have to take them all at the same time and due to pre-requisites for each class, it's still taking me a year longer.

I definitely think it's a great idea to not take general chemistry, calculus or physics at the same time (unless you like math or physics of course), but on the same hand, I think people should hit the ground running and take general chemistry their first year to get it done and out of the way so they don't get held back as far as transferring to a four year goes. Two years at a CC is bad enough...three is enough to strip your sanity away. I can't wait to go to a real college.

 

[HumidBeing]

Yep, I try to convince them to start the chem first, because it IS a two year sequence. Many counselors think all freshman should just fit into some preconceived mold of classes. It's the job of older students to save them from taking the counselors' advice.

 

[emttim]

Yep, I try to convince them to start the chem first, because it IS a two year sequence. Many counselors think all freshman should just fit into some preconceived mold of classes. It's the job of older students to save them from taking the counselors' advice.

If only there were students like you around when I was picking classes to take, lol. ah well, at least all my general ed is out of the way outside a couple strays (one language class and one humanities/art class). Hmm, so I'm assuming you're a peer advisor? What's required to be one at most universities? I wouldn't mind doing that to help steer students in the right direction so, like you said, they don't get screwed over by the counselors.

 

[45408]

Granted, it always seems hard at the time, but in retrospect they're probably two of the most straightforward classes you'll take as a premed.

Yeah, I would agree. Calc was easy at the time for me, but I certainly put in my fair share of time on calculations in gen chem. I did well on the exams, but not until after I'd done lots and lots o' problems.

 

[45408]

There are very few "freshman" classes. English qualifies, and so classes like College 101, orientation type classes. The rest that I can think of are considered intro classes, which are either taken to sample a discipline, or as the lead courses to further study of the subject. Those can be taken anytime, as long as there is time to complete the series.

I'm saving at least one "freshman" class until senior year because that's what will work for me.

Calc, gen chem, organic chem, physics, and biology should all be taken in the first two years of college if you know you're pre-med. I don't know anyone who's regretted that route, and I know plenty of people who'd wish they had done it that way. I took the MCAT halfway through college and didn't have to worry about it after that.

 

[maestro1625]

Calc, gen chem, organic chem, physics, and biology should all be taken in the first two years of college if you know you're pre-med. I don't know anyone who's regretted that route, and I know plenty of people who'd wish they had done it that way. I took the MCAT halfway through college and didn't have to worry about it after that.

I scheduled Gen Chem 2 a week into the semester, so the only open spots were the 8am lecture with the friday afternoon lab. The material wasn't really all that hard, looking back on it, but that schedule basically caused me to just shoot for a B and move on with my life.

 

[GoldShadow]

I hope this is the case. Cen Chem has been a lot of fun right so far and really not too difficult. It's like any math class, it just requires practice.

I don't know who you are, but your name and avatar are amazing; may you be blessed with much happiness for your good taste in television.

but in retrospect they're probably two of the most straightforward classes you'll take as a premed.

I took them last year and would have to agree so far; I did my fair share of studying but did not have to put in nearly as much time as I do now for classes.

The thing is, in gen chem it's like, if you are not good at one topic (say, reduction-oxidation reactions) then it's no big deal. You might lose a few points on a test, but then once you're done with that topic you're done with it forever. Then your teacher moves onto a new, totally unrelated topic such as nuclear chem.

I'm in orgo I, and my teacher has said time and time again; if you don't understand the first few chapters, then it's all going to fall apart after about chapter 6. He's had people in previous classes who made 80s on the first exam or two, but after that started scoring in the teens or in some extreme cases, single digits. I'm starting to see how this really is true, and I'm going to agree with my prof.

Likewise, in Cell Bio, everything we studied for the first exam, we also needed to know for the second, and the third. Things build on one another more than they did in any of my freshman classes.

 

[HumidBeing]

If only there were students like you around when I was picking classes to take, lol. ah well, at least all my general ed is out of the way outside a couple strays (one language class and one humanities/art class). Hmm, so I'm assuming you're a peer advisor? What's required to be one at most universities? I wouldn't mind doing that to help steer students in the right direction so, like you said, they don't get screwed over by the counselors.

No, I'm not an official peer advisor. Just happen to have a couple of older sisters who had unpleasant experiences because they thought they HAD to do what the counselors said. Heck, the first one I went to tried to make me take a batch of "fake" courses meant for students at high risk, the ones who need to learn some study skills. You know the type of courses I'm talking about. That was AFTER he wasn't able to convince me to go register at a special school for students with the type of disability that I had at the time. Sheesh! Just because I had a physical challenge, that didn't mean my mind was dull. I don't even want to THINK of what I'd be doing now if I'd followed any of his advice. After that, I asked someone else to be my advisor. He was GREAT. We had long discussions and he set me loose to sign up for whatever I wanted. I still see him so that he can sign my overrides for extra classes, though.

Anyway, I had the experiences of older siblings to learn from, and I have younger sibs who also had friends entering schools this year, and those students I meet at school who are just starting out and feeling frustrated. It's all informal.

If you're interested in doing something like that, you could check through your school. There might even be something on their website. That would be an enjoyable "leadership" EC for you!

 

[HumidBeing]

I don't know who you are, but your name and avatar are amazing; may you be blessed with much happiness for your good taste in television.


I took them last year and would have to agree so far; I did my fair share of studying but did not have to put in nearly as much time as I do now for classes.

The thing is, in gen chem it's like, if you are not good at one topic (say, reduction-oxidation reactions) then it's no big deal. You might lose a few points on a test, but then once you're done with that topic you're done with it forever. Then your teacher moves onto a new, totally unrelated topic such as nuclear chem.

I'm in orgo I, and my teacher has said time and time again; if you don't understand the first few chapters, then it's all going to fall apart after about chapter 6. He's had people in previous classes who made 80s on the first exam or two, but after that started scoring in the teens or in some extreme cases, single digits. I'm starting to see how this really is true, and I'm going to agree with my prof.

Likewise, in Cell Bio, everything we studied for the first exam, we also needed to know for the second, and the third. Things build on one another more than they did in any of my freshman classes.

But don't you think that when they build on one another it can be easier? Maybe that's why some people prefer ochem to gen chem, and for others, it's the other way around.

 

[Rotinaj]

Calc, gen chem, organic chem, physics, and biology should all be taken in the first two years of college if you know you're pre-med. I don't know anyone who's regretted that route, and I know plenty of people who'd wish they had done it that way. I took the MCAT halfway through college and didn't have to worry about it after that.

Seeing as you'll be taking your MCATs around the end of your third year at the latest, I agree that it's probably a good idea to get them done early so you have a few months to review all of those classes. I know that I'll be saving all my notes from my premed courses.

 

[Rotinaj]

I don't know who you are, but your name and avatar are amazing; may you be blessed with much happiness for your good taste in television.

Why thank you kind sir, I shall toast you with my heartiest wine... Yeah, I have scrubs going on my computer while I'm doing homework. I've watched all six seasons about 10 times this semester alone