Getting a job after residency as a DO

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Uafl112

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I know a lot of forums discuss the difficulty in getting certain residencies as DO students, but whats the actual work field look like? Is it more difficult for a DO to land a job than an MD? I searched the forums a bit on the topic, but they were posted several years ago. Whats it look like out there now? Are there still places that wont hire DOs?

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The only time I have read about possible DO discrimination were about DOs trying to find jobs in California. These were DOs that had their training outside of Cali though. However, for the most part, you should be okay for every single state in the nation.
 
Make sure your first year is accredited as a DO residency, because there are several states that require it for licensire. Thats the biggest bar to practicing for a DO, is if they did an MD residency and didnt bother filing for a resolution 42 waiver.
 
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Seems ridiculous that you guys have to file for a waiver.
 
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Seems ridiculous that you guys have to file for a waiver.


To clarify

in 4 states there is a requirement to complete an osteopathic intern year in order to practice medicine as a DO. I dont remember which. If you complete a DO residency, you're good.

If you complete an MD residency, technically speaking you never complete an osteopathic intern year.

Therefore, if you want to practice medicine in one of these 4 states, you apply for a "waiver" (called resolution 42) to count your MD intern year towards your DO requirement.

As far as I know, I have never heard of anyone getting denied a resolution 42, and I am pretty confident that the merger will make the whole thing go away.
 
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The only time I have read about possible DO discrimination were about DOs trying to find jobs in California. These were DOs that had their training outside of Cali though. However, for the most part, you should be okay for every single state in the nation.
ok cool. That is reassuring
 
The only time I have read about possible DO discrimination were about DOs trying to find jobs in California. These were DOs that had their training outside of Cali though. However, for the most part, you should be okay for every single state in the nation.
I call bull**** on this statement. I have plenty of DO friends who work in California and I get job offers there EVERY SINGLE WEEK.
 
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I call bull**** on this statement. I have plenty of DO friends who work in California and I get job offers there EVERY SINGLE WEEK.

I have only stated what I have read on the threads (there were around 2-3 on the topic). I am not stating that this is out right true.
 
With the Single Accredidation coming into play, the AOA is currently working with licensing boards of the 4 states the require an osteopathic internship to hopefully end this.

I actually called the AOA to inquire about the Res 42 as I'm in an ACGME program, and the person I spoke to told you you can apply at any time during your residency, but to check back with them before starting the process, as it may not even be a thing anymore.
 
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With the Single Accredidation coming into play, the AOA is currently working with licensing boards of the 4 states the require an osteopathic internship to hopefully end this.

I actually called the AOA to inquire about the Res 42 as I'm in an ACGME program, and the person I spoke to told you you can apply at any time during your residency, but to check back with them before starting the process, as it may not even be a thing anymore.
thats awesome!
 
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I call bull**** on this statement. I have plenty of DO friends who work in California and I get job offers there EVERY SINGLE WEEK.
thats raw as hell. What did they specialize in if u dont mind me asking?
 
The only way I can imagine jobs being difficult to find is if you want a certain salary in a market that's already super saturated.
 
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Funny how so many young people these days assume that you have to find an employer in order to establish a career in medicine.

Finding work as a physician is not the same as getting offered a job. While it's not as common as before, there are still doctors successfully establishing their own practices every day. And there are plenty of patients for everyone to stay busy.
 
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I can't believe this is even a question. DOs are physicians. Physicians are in demand. DOs have job opportunities that many people can only dream of.
 
There is a spectrum when it comes to "getting a job"

If you're trying to land any ole gig, you can do that as a DO hands down no problem. And as a physician you will have a nice paying job. Now if you're AOA trained and want to work at a university hospital/ academics/ prestigious hospital....likely not happening. So it really depends on what kind of job you're looking for.
 
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There is a spectrum when it comes to "getting a job"

If you're trying to land any ole gig, you can do that as a DO hands down no problem. And as a physician you will have a nice paying job. Now if you're AOA trained and want to work at a university hospital/ academics/ prestigious hospital....likely not happening. So it really depends on what kind of job you're looking for.

Yeah you have a point, but that's an issue of residency training, not simply having a DO degree. And truth be told, a large number of Stanford, Harvard, and UCSF grads end up working "any old job" as well.
 
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Hmmm, jobs for D.O.'s after residency -- really depends -- in order to ensure a paying position utilizing your D.O. degree, you'll likely want to make sure you rub the bust of A.T. Still that you purchased prior to graduating from D.O. school and make sure you palpate cranial bones on the skull you purchased for your anatomy labs to appease the AOA -- oh, and don't forget to make the little vertebral column hand sign thing while chanting," Neutral, Sidebent X Rotate Y" -- else your hopes of being employable may be dashed cruelly upon the rocks ---

Seriously -- this is a non-issue unless you're in a prop 42 state -- I didn't need to (Texas) and I went and got my intern year recognized anyway -- it was laughably easy -- I just told them that I had presented a topic to my residency which talked about osteopathic therapy in geriatrics -- after verification, the approval came through in about a week....
 
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Really? Hadn't heard this. Any reason? Is pay expected to go up as the baby boomers get older and sicker?
Because there is a HUGE shortage of primary care, especially in rural areas. Many PCP's are overloaded and are not taking new patients that leaves folks in a lurch who then flock to urgent care for their primary care needs.


Let me put it to you this way: I am NOT looking for work and I get a minimum of 10-15 jobs for FP clinic come through my email EVERY SINGLE DAY.
 
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The vast majority of jobs dont care about md/do. They want physicians who are BC/BE. However you will find DO discrimination at the higher levels of medical academia.
 
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DO versus MD for job offers doesn't matter unless you are shooting for an admin/academic spot at some top hospital/residency someplace. That is the only time I can see it making any difference whatsoever. I'm getting email job offers nearly daily and I am a resident and have 4 years to go.....I even email these recruiters back and tell them I am not done with residency yet and still the emails flood in. I am also moonlighting in two different places right now as a resident. Finding work is not difficult as a DO, don't worry about it.
 
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The vast majority of jobs dont care about md/do. They want physicians who are BC/BE. However you will find DO discrimination at the higher levels of medical academia.

You will find DO discrimination elsewhere too. Just look at job postings. You'll find private groups looking for "MD only"
 
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You will find DO discrimination elsewhere too. Just look at job postings. You'll find private groups looking for "MD only"

I've spent an embarassing amount of time looking at physician job ads and I don't think I've ever seen this. Show me.
 
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With the Single Accredidation coming into play, the AOA is currently working with licensing boards of the 4 states the require an osteopathic internship to hopefully end this.

I actually called the AOA to inquire about the Res 42 as I'm in an ACGME program, and the person I spoke to told you you can apply at any time during your residency, but to check back with them before starting the process, as it may not even be a thing anymore.

That's amazingly good news. Who did you speak with?
 
The only time I have read about possible DO discrimination were about DOs trying to find jobs in California. These were DOs that had their training outside of Cali though. However, for the most part, you should be okay for every single state in the nation.
Where do all these myths keep popping from? Jesus.
 
You will find DO discrimination elsewhere too. Just look at job postings. You'll find private groups looking for "MD only"

Not only is that not a particularly common thing, but if you actually contact those places that post the ads, almost always what they mean by "MD only" is no NPs, PAs, etc. By "MD only" they mean "physicians only". That's a common occurrence in places where there aren't a ton of DOs, so many people (e.g. HR staff) don't even know what a DO is. As long as you're BC/BE (in some cases you need to be by the ABMS - so you need to do an ACGME residency, which will be the case for everyone soon enough) almost all jobs are open to you.

Also, as far as academia is concerned, as long as you attended an academic ACGME program, have plenty of research, etc. (i.e. what's required of anyone in academia) you can still get a job as a DO. I know of plenty of DOs in a top 20 that have academic jobs, and that top 20 is a place that doesn't touch DOs for residency.

Obviously this varies by institution. You also have to realize that the likelihood for a DO to be competitive for academia is small to begin with, and the likelihood for those individuals to go into academia in areas with say very few DOs or areas with essentially no DO-friendly ACGME programs is even smaller.
 
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Because there is a HUGE shortage of primary care, especially in rural areas. Many PCP's are overloaded and are not taking new patients that leaves folks in a lurch who then flock to urgent care for their primary care needs.


Let me put it to you this way: I am NOT looking for work and I get a minimum of 10-15 jobs for FP clinic come through my email EVERY SINGLE DAY.

So is it better stated that FM is the hot commodity in rural areas?

Are job/earning potential for family med docs in major metro areas really on a serious upswing?

You obviously know much more than I do, I'm not questioning what you're saying...just genuinely curious.
 
So is it better stated that FM is the hot commodity in rural areas?

Are job/earning potential for family med docs in major metro areas really on a serious upswing?

You obviously know much more than I do, I'm not questioning what you're saying...just genuinely curious.

Its not just rural areas, although jobs in those areas abound. It's also in major cities/densely populated areas. The hardest place for a PCP to find a job is random upscale suburbs. Everyone needs a PCP, not everyone needs a pathologist (for example).
 
Its not just rural areas, although jobs in those areas abound. It's also in major cities/densely populated areas. The hardest place for a PCP to find a job is random upscale suburbs. Everyone needs a PCP, not everyone needs a pathologist (for example).

Gotcha. On a related note...


I get that reimbursements play a major factor in the lower fm pay...but considering all of this demand, wouldn't it be reasonably easy for a family med doc to simply see more of this unending flood of patients and bump closer to specialist pay?
 
Its not just rural areas, although jobs in those areas abound. It's also in major cities/densely populated areas. The hardest place for a PCP to find a job is random upscale suburbs. Everyone needs a PCP, not everyone needs a pathologist (for example).

Obamacare is also a big factor - everyone in the program must have a PCP.
 
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Not only is that not a particularly common thing, but if you actually contact those places that post the ads, almost always what they mean by "MD only" is no NPs, PAs, etc. By "MD only" they mean "physicians only". That's a common occurrence in places where there aren't a ton of DOs, so many people (e.g. HR staff) don't even know what a DO is.

Yep, MD is shorthand for physician in hospitals i.e. nobody writes "MD/DO" in their notes - it's either MD or physician/intern/resident/attending/Dr Howdoyouspellit. It's not uncommon for HR to put MD on new badges for interns who are DOs.
 
So is it better stated that FM is the hot commodity in rural areas?

Are job/earning potential for family med docs in major metro areas really on a serious upswing?

You obviously know much more than I do, I'm not questioning what you're saying...just genuinely curious.

NO, FM is HOT everywhere basically. Pay is dependent on your contract/how many patients you see,etc. I'm locums so I'm by the hour. Comes down to how lazy/hard/smart you want to work. No one just just going to give you a big paycheck cuz you are FM. Specialist work super hard too and are always busy so don't think they just make more for being specialist, they put in tons on hours, take call, and get their time eaten up with hospital rounds/surgery time.
 
I call bull**** on this statement. I have plenty of DO friends who work in California and I get job offers there EVERY SINGLE WEEK.

California is a big state. Getting weekly job offers for towns in the sticks of Northern California is different from working in more desirable big city locales. Some of the practices in these areas won't even consider graduates of "lowly" state MD schools, never mind DOs.
 
California is a big state. Getting weekly job offers for towns in the sticks of Northern California is different from working in more desirable big city locales. Some of the practices in these areas won't even consider graduates of "lowly" state MD schools, never mind DOs.
Yes, California is a big state. And I get job offers from San Fran, LA, Sacramento, San Diego. Last map I consulted those were pretty large cities...........but then again some gey my medical school class from NYC argued with me about Alaska being an island. Go figure....
 
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It really depends on your field and fortunate timing than MD/DO.

If you are in a field that is saturated right now, it may be hard to find a job in a particular location, even if you were a Harvard MD trained at Hopkins. If you are in a field that is experiencing a severe shortage (and growing demands), you can get a job almost anywhere (and recruiters will start cold-calling you while you are in training). What is in demand now may not be in demand when you're done with training, and what is not in demand now may be in demand when you're done.

When physician groups are hiring, they want someone they can work with, whom they can trust. Pedigree is one aspect of this, but also "plays well with others?" is also very important (although this criteria is not used much in academic medicine). Outside academic medicine, playing well with other is VERY important.

Academic medicine is different - while pedigree is somewhat important, it's more your CV that you bring (and what research you have done, but more importantly, how much grant money you can bring to the institution). Because academic medicine pays less (in some cases significantly less) than their private practice counterpart, often at the entry level (instructor, or assistant professor) positions, there are openings because they have a hard time recruiting and retaining. And moving up the foodchain in academia requires work (depends on if you're tenure-track or not, research-based or not) ... but promotion will be based on your work rather than your pedigree.

But to answer the original question - whether it is difficult for DOs to get a job compare to MD - for the vast majority of cases, no. The degree/medical school makes fewer differences outside academia - more likely it will be your specialty and location that will play a far bigger role in finding jobs (or not finding jobs)
 
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California is a big state. Getting weekly job offers for towns in the sticks of Northern California is different from working in more desirable big city locales. Some of the practices in these areas won't even consider graduates of "lowly" state MD schools, never mind DOs.
I call BS on this. While some particular places may only hire "the best," even a quick search on google will show you Osteopathic physicians in San Francisco http://www.yelp.com/search?find_desc=osteopathic+doctors&find_loc=San+Francisco,+CA and LA http://www.yelp.com/search?cflt=osteopathicphysicians&find_loc=Los+Angeles,+CA
 
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A DO that I work with was showing me the 200-500k locum EM contracts that he's bombarded with on the regular so I'm going with no on this one.
 
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A DO that I work with was showing me the 200-500k locum EM contracts that he's bombarded with on the regular so I'm going with no on this one.

Locum jobs sound awful. You can't plant roots anywhere, you're always on the move. Sounds like a miserable way to live life but if it's your cup of tea, then it's fine. Probably why it pays more...
 
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Locum jobs sound awful. You can't plant roots anywhere, you're always on the move. Sounds like a miserable way to live life but if it's your cup of tea, then it's fine. Probably why it pays more...

There are benefits of working as a locum - independent contractor (hire an accountant if you can't do your own taxes), regularly higher wages, tail coverage, have your own schedule with the mentality of work hard play hard (+/- if you don't like your current job, you can move to the next one), car/flight/housing are paid for (an EP uses his flight mileage for international first class flight ~ $20k), and more. Locum jobs are not bad and depended on who you ask. My mentor, a pediatric surgeon, made as much from her locum gigs in 6 months as she would normally get for a year of full time job (academic hospital), n=1. You lose some, you win some. Time is more valuable for some people.
 
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I call BS on this. While some particular places may only hire "the best," even a quick search on google will show you Osteopathic physicians in San Francisco http://www.yelp.com/search?find_desc=osteopathic+doctors&find_loc=San+Francisco,+CA and LA http://www.yelp.com/search?cflt=osteopathicphysicians&find_loc=Los+Angeles,+CA

I'm not saying it's impossible to work there as a DO. If you're licensed you're free to establish a practice on your own or with DO- friendly colleagues. I'm saying that a DO applicant might have a harder time getting be hired by an established practice in a competitive area.
 
Are you more likely to get hired at the hospital or place that you are doing your residency ?
 
The biggest form of discrimination doesn't come in the form of employment...it comes in the form of matching to residency. MD's clearly have a significant advantage when matching to a number residencies.

But residency credentials are significantly more important than the med school you went to. Going to Harvard for residency is going to be significantly more marketable than going to Harvard for med school.

I am sure that there are some employers who do discriminate...and from what I hear most of them are either in Colorado or the west coast, or select academic hospitals throughout the country. But if you are physician...there will be work for you...you just may not be able to be as picky in regards to location.
 
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