Getting an MD after Pharm.D?

[LBS615]

l

Also over 10 years (assuming the average death age is 70..not sure what it really is) would place you in professional school for at least 14 percent of your life.

QUOTE]

I do not believe the average age is 70. At my hospital we consider someone who is 70 as young. The average age we have is 83 and older. Geez my parents are 63 and i consider them young. Anyone else have any info on this stat?

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[PharmD4Me]

I do not believe the average age is 70. At my hospital we consider someone who is 70 as young. The average age we have is 83 and older. Geez my parents are 63 and i consider them young. Anyone else have any info on this stat?

Life expectancy is 77.6 years for Americans: average men live shortly under it, and average women live shortly over it.
http://my.webmd.com/content/article/101/106141

 

[aubieRx]

l

Also over 10 years (assuming the average death age is 70..not sure what it really is) would place you in professional school for at least 14 percent of your life.

QUOTE]

I do not believe the average age is 70. At my hospital we consider someone who is 70 as young. The average age we have is 83 and older. Geez my parents are 63 and i consider them young. Anyone else have any info on this stat?

I figured it was higher,

Recalculates using 77 plus 8 years in professional school plus a bit more for residency/internship plus the 16 for undergrad and grade school:

34 percent. Which is still no small chunk of one's life.


I wouldnt be surprised if those expectancy numbers got smaller sometime soon. It looks like rough times are ahead unless the government starts taking serious actions.

 

[beachsaki101]

Is there a conflict of interest when one can prescribe and dispense? Do you have to give up one to practice the other?

 

[pharmDNC]

I wouldnt be surprised if those expectancy numbers got smaller sometime soon. It looks like rough times are ahead unless the government starts taking serious actions.

Is there something that I should be aware of here? I am not sure I am following your thought here? Could you explain.

 

[Ivorymist]

Is there a conflict of interest when one can prescribe and dispense? Do you have to give up one to practice the other?

Yes technically there would be a conflict of interest, but I don't think it's prohibited by any means. Both my dentist and family doctor are also pharmacists (with active licenses).

I would imagine though that there's got to be some sort of law that prevents you from filling your own prescription.

 

[BMBiology]

Is there a conflict of interest when one can prescribe and dispense? Do you have to give up one to practice the other?

In California, you cannot practice as a medical doctor and as a pharmacist as the same time.

 

[tupac_don]

I figured it was higher,

Recalculates using 77 plus 8 years in professional school plus a bit more for residency/internship plus the 16 for undergrad and grade school:

34 percent. Which is still no small chunk of one's life.


I wouldnt be surprised if those expectancy numbers got smaller sometime soon. It looks like rough times are ahead unless the government starts taking serious actions.

Yea but take this into account. About 1/3 of your life is spent sleeping. So if you do all this training, I am sure you will be sleeping on avg less than your typical person. So say you only sleep 20% of your life away, then you work 13%. So now, really it's only 21% of your life that is spent in schooling. Personally I'd rather do pretty much anything then sleep, unless I have to cuz I can't function. Just my perspective.

 

[OnMyWayThere]

Is it possible/how long would it take to complete an MD program AFTER finishing off the Pharm.D?

thanks

I haven't read this entire thread... I never visit this forum but I saw it while scrolling down on SDN b/c it was the last responded to - SO, i don't know if this has ever been brought up here: There is a program in the Caribbean that gives you advanced standing for being a Pharmacist. I have no idea where this program is approved (definately not in CA) but it may be worth taking a look at! That's all I know about this program - sorry if it is a hoax or anything. Definately do your homework on this one as many states probably don't approve it. http://www.uhsa.ag/pstudent/pharmacist/

 

[aubieRx]

Is there something that I should be aware of here? I am not sure I am following your thought here? Could you explain.

the potential for terrorism and balkanization.

 

[aubieRx]

Yea but take this into account. About 1/3 of your life is spent sleeping. So if you do all this training, I am sure you will be sleeping on avg less than your typical person. So say you only sleep 20% of your life away, then you work 13%. So now, really it's only 21% of your life that is spent in schooling. Personally I'd rather do pretty much anything then sleep, unless I have to cuz I can't function. Just my perspective.

I think the amount of time you spend sleeping would be about the same amount as you wouldif you weren't in school (providedyou don't sleep an outrageous amount of hours a day and have a job/.etc)

Even if you stay up all night to study for a test cahnces are the next day you make it up by sleeping in/getting a long nap.

so it all balances out.

You have to have a minimum amount of sleep to function properly and remain healthy so its sort of a constant...

 

[carpe diem]

No, I believe you are wrong. The medical school admissions will view you either:

(1) Indecisiveness. This shows lack of direction. This may be okay when you are 22 but it may not be when you are 26 especially since you want to enter a profession that requires at least 7 years of commitment. This may not be as an important factor as your grades or mcat score, but since medical school is very competitive, it might very well be the deciding factor.

(2) Using the pharm.d degree as a stepping stone to medical school. It will be pretty obvious when they see your undergrad grades. This is definately questionable especially since there is such a stortage of pharmacists. If you are okay to do this to a profession, what would you do to your patients for your own personal gain?

Trust me when I say this, you will be questioned why you went into pharmacy school during the interview. You will have to waste a lot of your interview time trying to explain and defend yourself, instead of selling yourself. Admissions to medical school is extremely competitive (maybe not some DO schools) and therefore, every factors is important.

I agree. I've done (almost --- 1 more year of med school) both and can say that it does not necessarily give one any advantage, especially if you cannot convey to a med admission committee that you weren't just using pharm as med school prep. Med Adcoms don't look highly on that, and also don't look highly on candidates from other health care profession that don't have pretty damn good reasons for leaving their initial profession.

Of course, doing well in pharmacy school will let a med adcom know that you can probably handle the work in med school ok. On the other hand, for some med adcoms, any hint that an applicant thinks he's more qualified for admission just because she/he is a pharmacist or in pharmacy school will be automatic rejection.

Bottom line, unless you are a good liar, don't intentionally go to pharm school as prep for med school, because med school interviewers will see right through you.

Carpe

 

[no-see-um]

It depends how you come to the decision to go to medical school. To have it as a plan to do pharmacy first and then medicine is an unnecessary, costly, and regimented circumlocution (if you could even call it that!)...

If you're already a pharmacist, or even a pharm student who decides that pharmacy is not for you, then it is perfectly fine to contemplate changing professions. The good thing about pharmacy, in my opinion, is that it has enough security that there's the possiblity to even get out of it if need be! In other professions, you're 'stuck'. But, depending on the personality involved, a down-head could, unfortunately, be 'stuck' almost anywhere.

If the question is, 'will pharmacy help me get into medical school?', I think you'll find a mixed bag of answers to that. Medical school is difficult to make these days. Applicants could be more qualified for medical school who have majored in something that would seem totally out of the realm of medicine like Comparative Literature (with pre-med requisites).

I've applied to medical schools (decided on pharm), and noticed that, as with even the brightest of research, your achievements- no matter what they are- could most certainly be overlooked if you don't communiciate them well. In order to do this, you have to put what you have done, who you are, and why you want to do medicine (or pharmacy, for that matter) into a context that could be understood by the Adcoms. There has to be depth and honesty to your story. The skeleton question of this thread, 'Getting an MD after Pharm.D", has no depth to it. What value does it have? There's no meat to this question- no individual to evaluate.

My point is, that you should not approach the pharmacy profession as a stepping stone to the medical field. You would be setting yourself up to be utterly disappointed. I made the choice to do pharmacy, when I decided not to go to med school. I didn't decide to put off medical school till after I do pharmacy (once you decline, you've declined, and there's reason in doing so), but to approach pharmacy for what it is. Pharmacy is certainly a different beast...

 

[carpe diem]

posted originally by Fruit Fly above

"It depends how you come to the decision to go to medical school. To have it as a plan to do pharmacy first and then medicine is an unnecessary, costly, and regimented circumlocution (if you could even call it that!)............

........My point is, that you should not approach the pharmacy profession as a stepping stone to the medical field. You would be setting yourself up to be utterly disappointed. I made the choice to do pharmacy, when I decided not to go to med school. I didn't decide to put off medical school till after I do pharmacy (once you decline, you've declined, and there's reason in doing so), but to approach pharmacy for what it is. Pharmacy is certainly a different beast..."

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nicely said drosophila




Carpe

 

[chedrick]

Is there a conflict of interest when one can prescribe and dispense? Do you have to give up one to practice the other?

In Indiana physicians have the right to prescribe as well as dispense.

 

[tupac_don]

I think the amount of time you spend sleeping would be about the same amount as you wouldif you weren't in school (providedyou don't sleep an outrageous amount of hours a day and have a job/.etc)

Even if you stay up all night to study for a test cahnces are the next day you make it up by sleeping in/getting a long nap.

so it all balances out.

You have to have a minimum amount of sleep to function properly and remain healthy so its sort of a constant...

No I disagree. You would sleep less if you are in medical school, residency. In a surgical residency you are up by 4-5am and you go till 7-9 at night, with call every 4th night. Unless you don't do anything else except sleep and work, you will be sleeping significantly less than your avg bear in the forrest. I would say 3-5hrs/day. In medical school, first two years, you might be able to get good sleep, but in rotations, especially during 3rd year, there is no way you will be sleeping 8hrs/day on a consistent basis.

Now depending on what specialty in medicine you pick you may be sleeping a lot less than your avg individual.

And yea you are right that you do need a MINIMUM amt of sleep to remain functional and to stay healthy. However, that MINIMUM amt of sleep is very variable, from individual to individual. Some people can function well on 3-4hrs of sleep/night. Others need 6-8, still others need 8+. To tell you the truth most general surgeons work 80-100hrs/week and they dont' sleep more than a few hrs a night.

 

[Sustiva]

I don't really see any point in getting an MD after your PharmD. Infact being a PharmD may even make it harder to go to medical school; they will want to know why you want to change professions. You will never make enough money to justify your education..... Also, whats the point of having two professional degrees like that? So when you dx a pt, you can write him an rx, you can also monitor his pharmacotherapy and PK, counsel him on use, fill/compound rx? i dont think so...

 

[DrPharm]

why not? if the person has the money and the time to do it, then let him do it, who are you guys are too critical...damn.

i figured, 4 years bachelors + 4 years med = 8 years for MD only

pharmacy (for those fortunate to start after 2 years pre reqs):

2 years pre reqs + 4 years pharmD + 4 years MD = 10 years for PharmD and MD.

Only 2 more years and you get two degrees...now that's something. There are a few in medical schools that are quite old too so these students starting med school at 24 after PharmD arent that far behind from the typical age 22.

Think about it.

 

[ZpackSux]

why not? if the person has the money and the time to do it, then let him do it, who are you guys are too critical...damn.

i figured, 4 years bachelors + 4 years med = 8 years for MD only

pharmacy (for those fortunate to start after 2 years pre reqs):

2 years pre reqs + 4 years pharmD + 4 years MD = 10 years for PharmD and MD.

Only 2 more years and you get two degrees...now that's something. There are a few in medical schools that are quite old too so these students starting med school at 24 after PharmD arent that far behind from the typical age 22.

Think about it.

Oh no.. That's not the right math.

2 + 4 for PharmD = 6 years to practice.

2 + 4 + 4 + 3(residency) = PharmD/MD =13 years to practice.

We're comparing PharmD vs PharmD/MD, not MD vs PharmD/MD

 

[Sustiva]

Oh no.. That's not the right math.

2 + 4 for PharmD = 6 years to practice.

2 + 4 + 4 + 3(residency) = PharmD/MD =13 years to practice.

We're comparing PharmD vs PharmD/MD, not MD vs PharmD/MD

At least 3 years for an internal medicine residency (up to 6 or 7 if pathology or surgery), plus another 2 years for a fellowship... thats major burn-out.... I dont think there are any PharmD/MDs out there who decide to practice pharmacy, so the pharmD isnt used anyways

 

[DrPharm]

I know that but my point is the PharmD/MD will be only trailing 2 years behind from a typical MD. while a MD will typically be 30 after MD school and residency, PharmD/MD will be 32 with a PharmD and MD after residency, so they're not really 'wasting' a lot of years persay and they have to degrees-- and these two aren't particularly useles. The pharmacy will definitely help them with treating they're patients more ( and don't write me with a comeback that says some of the greatest mds treat their pts better with no pharmacy degree....everyone is different)

That was what I mean, I know that for MDs, a residency is a must. I'm just saying that for students who also want to persue their MD after PharmD, they're not really wasting their time (besides 2 more years of their lives - the 2 years pre reqs)

(note this is for people whose goal before going to school is to go to med school after pharmacy - so their main goal was medicine...i'm NOT comparing pharmD to pharmD/MD because that's not their main goal (practicing pharmacy). I'm comparing the MD to PharmD/MD because their main goal is to practice medicine but wanted that pharmacy background.)

 

[yatzek]

if you are worried about how long it will take then you already have the wrong mentality...i think getting an MD takes most of your life away and if you are going to do that you have accept studying for most of your life.