Getting an MD to do something other than medicine?

[172858]

So now that the current admission cycle is winding down, I thought I would pose a questions: Anyone seriously considering doing anything else with their MD other than practicing clinical medicine?

I recently met an MD who works for a large pharmaceutical company as a consultant. He said that he's been doing it for years since he got out of his IM residency, and enjoys it a lot. I personally never really gave anything outside of clinical practice much thought... has anyone out there?

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[Cataract]

I'm thinking about it. I've always loved tissue engineering and I'll definitely get involved in some research in med school. But the problem is debt. I can't see how anyone would survive on anything less than clinical practice. How do people do it?

 

[nlax30]

Never really thought of it. I want to do all the clinical "doctor" work.

Though it'd probably something to look into if I ever am working part time and need something on the side (consulting) or when I retire, etc...

We have a retired cardiologist who's a professor here, but also is involved on the board of some telecom company.

 

[Auron]

I'm thinking about it. I've always loved tissue engineering and I'll definitely get involved in some research in med school. But the problem is debt. I can't see how anyone would survive on anything less than clinical practice. How do people do it?

Common misconception.

MD consultants make good money. You don't have to be a clinician to make bank. Their are many oppotunities outside of clinical medicine with an MD.

 

[Cataract]

Common misconception.

MD consultants make good money. You don't have to be a clinician to make bank. Their are many oppotunities outside of clinical medicine with an MD.

I'm sure working as a consultant for BigPharma would be great, but what about research. I guess you can become a professor and do University research, but I don't know how possible that is.

 

[Shejeboshease]

So now that the current admission cycle is winding down, I thought I would pose a questions: Anyone seriously considering doing anything else with their MD other than practicing clinical medicine?

I recently met an MD who works for a large pharmaceutical company as a consultant. He said that he's been doing it for years since he got out of his IM residency, and enjoys it a lot. I personally never really gave anything outside of clinical practice much thought... has anyone out there?

my goal is to become a physician entrepreneur. i don't have any educational qualifications in business, but i'm working as a full-time businessman for the past year. i am taking two years off after undergrad; so just trying to take full advantage of it. part of the reason i took this job is to get some hands on experience in business and entrepreneurial work. i'm not exactly sure what i want to do, but i definitely don't want to limit my medical service in a private practice office to a handful of rich people. the trick is doing good for the underserved and make a lot of money at the same time.... my goal for the four years would be to figure out HOW

 

[kami333]

I'm sure working as a consultant for BigPharma would be great, but what about research. I guess you can become a professor and do University research, but I don't know how possible that is.

Definately possible. It depends on how much research you want to do. There's a lot of MDs who do anywhere from collaborating by providing patients/samples to running their own studies to being a PI. Although to be a PI you are looking at dedicating a significant amount of time away from patient care, something like 80-50%, which may be hard to do with some specialties like surgery. Some MDs only do research, however they make what PhDs would so it is pay cut compared to being a clinician.

Some of the non-clinical jobs I know are consulting in various forms (anything from pharma to architecture), policy roles, directors of various things, etc. In the end, having an MD is just the education, what you ultimately do with it is up to you.

 

[dienekes88]

I plan on using my MD to meet women.

 

[135892]

I plan on using my MD to meet women.

, aren't we all

 

[GoldShadow]

I plan on using my MD to meet women.

 

[moe_4eva]

I've always wanted to consult as medical control for a fire dept. Mostly because I really enjoy the people there, and I hear they let you ride with them when you want to (from the times we let our doc ride with my company )

 

[Law2Doc]

So now that the current admission cycle is winding down, I thought I would pose a questions: Anyone seriously considering doing anything else with their MD other than practicing clinical medicine?

I recently met an MD who works for a large pharmaceutical company as a consultant. He said that he's been doing it for years since he got out of his IM residency, and enjoys it a lot. I personally never really gave anything outside of clinical practice much thought... has anyone out there?

Well, people do go into other things, but it's not a good plan to go to med school if that is your goal. You don't get the MD with the goal of it being a resume padder for something else, that is extraordinarilly low yield. Med school is 4 years, $200k in debt, and in general you would want to do at least some residency to build up your street cred and get licensed. There are many paths into pharma and consulting and most of them can be accomplished in 5 years or less without the debt (and actually earning a salary), the tests, the overnight call. So it isn't the smart move. But if you get the MD with the goal of being a clinician but during your education you decide you cannot see yourself working as a doctor, you probably ought to be able to use the credential to make a soft landing elsewhere. But no, only go into medicine if the current goal is to practice medicine. It is not an accident that med schools have this as their mission and expect this attitude from their matriculants (except perhaps the PhD/MD types). This is the purpose of medical education, and also the best use of medical education. Other roads (law, business, employment) are more surefire, less expensive, less time intensive paths if you want to work in other fields.

 

[NonTradMed]

The MD trains you to be a clinician. If you want to go into consulting, you can do it much more easily by just doing an undergrad degree and then some work experience. The business world isn't crying out for MD-turned business suits. You'd be in a lot of debt and working your butt off for four years plus residency doing the same work, making the same salary as someone who went through four years of undergrad.

 

[Nilf]

So now that the current admission cycle is winding down, I thought I would pose a questions: Anyone seriously considering doing anything else with their MD other than practicing clinical medicine?

I recently met an MD who works for a large pharmaceutical company as a consultant. He said that he's been doing it for years since he got out of his IM residency, and enjoys it a lot. I personally never really gave anything outside of clinical practice much thought... has anyone out there?

Definitely not worth it. It's like going to NYC from Hoboken via Maine.

 

[MWK]

My ex-roommate is doing an MD/MBA. I dont think he has any intentions of practicing.

 

[172858]

Personally, my heart is in clinical medicine. I don't really see that changing in the near or distant future unless something unforeseeable and unusual happened (something that would prevent me from efficiently meeting the technical standards of practicing).

But it is interesting to think about. With all the MD/JD and MD/MBA programs, I'm sure that there is a percentage of grads each year who have no intention of going into clinical practice. And from what I hear, the money is good, the hours tend to be much better, and the risk of not having to deal with those three ugly M's (morbidity, mortality, and malpractice) is very appealing.

 

[Maxprime]

Do a PhD. You can consult just the same, your CV will be 1,000 times longer, you won't learn a ton of worthless crap, etc. They pay you to go, and going to industry afterwards is a common outcome. Putting in 200k and 7 or so years of your life towards something you don't want to do (practice) seems downright stupid to me.

 

[Law2Doc]

But it is interesting to think about. With all the MD/JD and MD/MBA programs, I'm sure that there is a percentage of grads each year who have no intention of going into clinical practice. And from what I hear, the money is good, the hours tend to be much better, and the risk of not having to deal with those three ugly M's (morbidity, mortality, and malpractice) is very appealing.

Well, MD/MBA seems to be one potential path to hospital administration, but I've seen folks do just as well via eg the RN/MBA route so it's hard to justify the extra years or tuition. Nobody is clear yet what the MD/JD path is for, and it's still a minority of schools that offer this combo. You pretty much have to be a trailblazer and demonstrate a need for your combo of degrees, because very few people have them. You probably ultimately have to choose which of the two professions you want to work in -- the jobs that integrate or span the two tend to be very low paying policy jobs, or teaching medical ethics in professional schools. So I disagree that the money is good for this combo -- at best you get the same money as a physician but with two extra years of tuition debt and lose two years of opportunity cost. And BTW lawyers have to deal with professional malpractice too, so you probably don't escape this ugly M.

 

[PHealthMan]

I am in the PA field and not trained as an MD but I can comment on what some of my colleagues have done outside of clinical medicine.

Consulting is an option. What kind of consulting would you be interested in doing? Legal consulting and forensics require clinical experience and credibility (i.e pedigree and research experience). However the corporate world and NGO / government look for individuals with medical training to serve numerous functions. A PA I used to work with works for an institute of disaster management lecturing and working on various projects. He had minimal clinical experience prior to this.

What about research or Academics? If that is all you wanted to do would you HAVE to complete a residency? Obviously a medical school prof. would need clinical expertise but what about a semi related academic field ? Medical Sociology/Anthropology, Public Health.

 

[Maxprime]

Nobody is clear yet what the MD/JD path is for, and it's still a minority of schools that offer this combo.

Medical malpractice lawyers.

 

[hairlessmexican]

no im thinking either md or business(mba). thats why i think i'll do 4yrs as officer in the military and then apply either to med school or mba.

 

[Maxprime]

no im thinking either md or business(mba). thats why i think i'll do 4yrs as officer in the military and then apply either to med school or mba.

Yeah . . . but to do what?

 

[hairlessmexican]

Yeah . . . but to do what?

if medicine, then do just that untill retirement. you cant switch careers at middle age. and if mba, then banking is natural.

 

[Law2Doc]

Medical malpractice lawyers.

That's just silly. 99.99% of medmal lawyers didn't go to med school and do quite fine. There simply is no good reason to go to med school to practice any form of law.

 

[Maxprime]

That's just silly. 99.99% of medmal lawyers didn't go to med school and do quite fine. There simply is no good reason to go to med school to practice any form of law.

you're silly. I kid, lawyers do stupid stuff all the time . . . like become lawyers.

 

[Neelesh]

Although clinical medicine is my main attraction to medicine, I would really love to be a lecturer at a medical school, public health school or an undergraduate campus.

 

[fireflygirl]

My brother is a little unsure about what he's going to do with medicine. He's really challenged by the sciences and he's brilliant at it which is why he's going into it, but I, and him, can't see himself practicing it in the general sense. So he's just taking things one step at a time and going into med school with an open mind to see where it leads him.

And I am friends with two ex-lawyers in my post bac who are both going into medicine to be able to either teach medically related law at the university level or to go back into medically related areas in law.

 

[Law2Doc]

And I am friends with two ex-lawyers in my post bac who are both going into medicine to be able to either teach medically related law at the university level or to go back into medically related areas in law.

Well, in terms of the medically related law, they could have done this as lawyers without much difficulty. As mentioned 99.99% of all medmal, health law and other medically related area lawyers do not have an MD. Quite a few of my friends work in health law and didn't even take any health law classes in law school, let alone go to a med school. Nor do such lawyers ever need a medical degree. You hire nurses and doctors to review documents for you -- it's a cost you pass on to the client and you to some extent pass the liability for mistakes as well, so it's win win. You certainly won't earn any more with an MD than just having the JD if you plan to stay in law. So this isn't really a well thought out path. They may be trying to break into an area they haven't been able to, but it's a very low yield path -- they will spend 4+ years and $200k to end up doing something most folks will be doing right out of law school. In terms of academics, sure it can get you good credentials for that, but you will do it at a big loss in income/salary, so you'd better be sure you'll love it. But if academics is their motivation, great.

Bear in mind that the advice is a bit different if you already have the JD than if you haven't yet got one. To do the JD/MD you need to have a good notion of why you want both degrees because you will likely only be using one. If you already have the JD, which you got to practice law, and after having practiced, (or after a change of plans), you decide you want to transition into something non-law, and be a true career changer, then I get that, but you are basically going to forego using your prior credentials in most cases. So if you do one profession and later decide to change, they I understand having both credentials (not something you planned on at the outset, but hopefully no regrets). But if you are getting both from the onset, then you'd better have a well thought out plan because honestly few to no jobs exist which actually require that combo, and in most cases you could get to any job with either one or the other. You will thus need to convince an employer to create such a combo job, or just pick a field. Either way you will have a tough time recouping the investment of time and money it'll take to get both degrees, and will almost always be in a worse position than someone who got either/or degree and just starts working.

Only do medicine if you plan to practice medicine. Everything else has other higher yield paths.

 

[shantster]

Well, MD/MBA seems to be one potential path to hospital administration, but I've seen folks do just as well via eg the RN/MBA route so it's hard to justify the extra years or tuition. Nobody is clear yet what the MD/JD path is for, and it's still a minority of schools that offer this combo. You pretty much have to be a trailblazer and demonstrate a need for your combo of degrees, because very few people have them. You probably ultimately have to choose which of the two professions you want to work in -- the jobs that integrate or span the two tend to be very low paying policy jobs, or teaching medical ethics in professional schools. So I disagree that the money is good for this combo -- at best you get the same money as a physician but with two extra years of tuition debt and lose two years of opportunity cost. And BTW lawyers have to deal with professional malpractice too, so you probably don't escape this ugly M.

I think the idea behind MD/JD is for health policy type things (and yes, you can do it without the MD).

As for debt, consultants make a good income and your fees will be higher with the extra degree.

 

[fireflygirl]

Well, in terms of the medically related law, they could have done this as lawyers without much difficulty. As mentioned 99.99% of all medmal, health law and other medically related area lawyers do not have an MD. Quite a few of my friends work in health law and didn't even take any health law classes in law school, let alone go to a med school. Nor do such lawyers ever need a medical degree. You hire nurses and doctors to review documents for you -- it's a cost you pass on to the client and you to some extent pass the liability for mistakes as well, so it's win win. You certainly won't earn any more with an MD than just having the JD if you plan to stay in law. So this isn't really a well thought out path. They may be trying to break into an area they haven't been able to, but it's a very low yield path -- they will spend 4+ years and $200k to end up doing something most folks will be doing right out of law school. In terms of academics, sure it can get you good credentials for that, but you will do it at a big loss in income/salary, so you'd better be sure you'll love it. But if academics is their motivation, great.

Bear in mind that the advice is a bit different if you already have the JD than if you haven't yet got one. To do the JD/MD you need to have a good notion of why you want both degrees because you will likely only be using one. If you already have the JD, which you got to practice law, and after having practiced, (or after a change of plans), you decide you want to transition into something non-law, and be a true career changer, then I get that, but you are basically going to forego using your prior credentials in most cases. So if you do one profession and later decide to change, they I understand having both credentials (not something you planned on at the outset, but hopefully no regrets). But if you are getting both from the onset, then you'd better have a well thought out plan because honestly few to no jobs exist which actually require that combo, and in most cases you could get to any job with either one or the other. You will thus need to convince an employer to create such a combo job, or just pick a field. Either way you will have a tough time recouping the investment of time and money it'll take to get both degrees, and will almost always be in a worse position than someone who got either/or degree and just starts working.

Only do medicine if you plan to practice medicine. Everything else has other higher yield paths.

I personally agree with you law2doc, but these two students were just insistent on getting their MD so that they could practice some type of health policy (now that I remember better...) and the one was a freaking genius and really put her heart and soul into her pre-reqs and MCAT and ended up at Harvard. She also had done a lot of HIV/AIDS advocacy for welfare mothers so I could see how having the medical degree might help.

But the other one had a lot of trouble getting into med school because she had an average profile and a lot of schools ended up questioning her during the interview what her intentions were and implied that perhaps she was a floater and didn't really know what she wanted. She had done white collar law before going into the PB and wanted to be able to teach medical ethics at the university level some day. But I guess the AdComs didn't buy it. She's applying again for the 2nd time.

 

[lisichka]

technically after you frame your MD diplomma, and give yourself a sexy graduation party, you can rightly jump on the couch and watch soaps all day. there is nothing in the hippocratic oath that forbids you from doing that...

sitting on a couch can be called "tissue engineering" as well. you just have to think outside the "box."

 

[lisichka]

AFTER graduation:
1. frame your diplomma
2.frame "DO NO HARM" poster
3.jump on a couch
4. think of how many lives you save by sitting on a couch
5. sexy....time