Getting rejected at an interview?

[ciestar]

My concern would be if I caught someone cheating and ran and told on them, that would reflect poorly on me. Basically, tattling isn't exactly the most mature thing in the world. But who knows, maybe I'd appear irresponsible or immature if I said nothing.

But how I am, I try to fix things internally first. When that fails, higher power is included.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[ThisCouldBeYou]

View attachment 182707 View attachment 182708

http://www.careeroverview.com/blog/2010/50-body-language-secrets/

What about the times an interview is interrupted? Your site suggests: Interruptions. If you are in the middle of a conversation with a superior or in a meeting that has been interrupted, it is best to look away from the person dealing with the interruption in an effort to give them privacy and to indicate you have disengaged yourself from something that is not your business. Since you're looking away, is it okay to read book titles that line the office walls? I was on a job interview today and my interviewer got interrupted several times. I knew it was a courtesy to not to look at the person needing help, but where do I look? Of course, I know NOT to look at anything on her desk. It was tempting to read a text, but I knew not to do that! So I just read some book titles instead.

 

[el_duderino]

What about the times an interview is interrupted? Your site suggests: Interruptions. If you are in the middle of a conversation with a superior or in a meeting that has been interrupted, it is best to look away from the person dealing with the interruption in an effort to give them privacy and to indicate you have disengaged yourself from something that is not your business. Since you're looking away, is it okay to read book titles that line the office walls? I was on a job interview today and my interviewer got interrupted several times. I knew it was a courtesy to not to look at the person needing help, but where do I look? Of course, I know NOT to look at anything on her desk. It was tempting to read a text, but I knew not to do that! So I just read some book titles instead.

Admire their decorations. Books can be a part of that. Pictures, knick knacks, etc.

 

[samurkai]

I have a friend who is a student interviewer for a school that now does MMI interviews. Without giving away too many details, his station involved the interviewee directing one interviewer through a minor task verbally while a second interviewer took notes. One particular student was unable to communicate what he wanted the interviewer to do and the task was not completed. However, he didn't totally tank himself until the second interviewer started asking him what he would have done differently, at which point he responded that he had done nothing wrong and that it was the interviewer who was incompetent and incapable of following directions. Needless to say he was given a strong negative interview report at that station.

 

[Goro]

These are people who cannot answer a question consisely, and just run on and on, because what they're doing is thinking at the same time their lips are flapping. These are also the type of people for whom one word is never enough when five will do. Ever listen to some people talk and think "is there an end to this story?"

That's the person!

Could you describe babbling idiots? Like people who don't know when to end talking about their application, are poorly articulate about it? What about sharing a story?

I've never had someone stupid enough to put their feet up on our tables, but have had three address us faculty interviewers by first name. That's an autoreject for us.

When I was talking to the dean at Mercer she said she had a student plop his feet up on her desk and address her by her first name.

 

[AdeleDazeem]

Could you describe babbling idiots? Like people who don't know when to end talking about their application, are poorly articulate about it? What about sharing a story?

 

[sazerac]

Is there something you can say or do that the interviewer is waiting for so they can toss your app?
Are they waiting for a certain flaw or incorrect response to slip out so they can finish you?

As an interviewer, I don't have the unilateral authority to deny somebody admission, but I have certainly written applicant reviews that are so bad I don't see how the applicant could have possibly gotten accepted here. We are given a list of topics to cover, but we certainly aren't given a list of "if the interviewer says or does X, auto-reject".

I know I've written about these stories here before, but one applicant told me they wanted to go to my school really bad. Like really really bad. She repeated it several times. Like every 4th sentence. As we were wrapping up the interview, she told me "I want to go here so bad that if I am rejected here and accepted someplace else, I would turn down that acceptance just to try here again". In my review, I wrote "I can tell she obviously wants to get a degree from here, but does she want to become a physician? I don't know!!!" That, plus a lousy interview numeric score doomed her application.

The other applicant was the most boring person in the world. They had absolutely no passion for anything, inside of medicine or outside of medicine. I spent a full hour trying to find something, anything, that they were interested in, and came up blank. This person may have been qualified to be a physician. I wouldn't know, because the interviews are closed here. But this person was literally the most uninteresting person I have ever met. I wrote them a lousy review based solely on poor personality - without any demonstrated leadership, any drive to help people, any quirky story to tell, I just didn't think they would be a good fit at our school. I hope they found success at a more boring medical school or something.

Other than that, the interviews have mostly been intimidating for me. The vast majority of y'all are far more qualified to be a med student than I am. I wish I could accept everybody (well, except those two!).

 

[LizzyM]

I've never had someone stupid enough to put their feet up on our tables, but have had three address us faculty interviewers by first name. That's an autoreject for us.

That's something new we've seen in the last year or two: addressing interviewers, particularly women who are attending physicians and old enough to be the applicant's mother, by first name even if she's introduced herself as "Dr. Jones" or "Dean Smith". Some adcom members are inclined to be lenient and others want to bring down the auto-reject hammer.

 

[gyngyn]

That's something new we've seen in the last year or two: addressing interviewers, particularly women who are attending physicians and old enough to be the applicant's mother, by first name even if she's introduced herself as "Dr. Jones" or "Dean Smith". Some adcom members are inclined to be lenient and others want to bring down the auto-reject hammer.

Disrespect always has the same outcome at our meetings.

 

[gyngyn]

If it comes up in convo with the prof, I'd be honest about it, but I wouldn't volunteer any names. If they asked me point blank I'd inform them that I really don't feel comfortable getting someone in trouble, but I would suggest xyz in the future to limit any additional cheating.

As one enters a profession in which we are expected to report unprofessional behavior, even (perhaps especially) in colleagues, this might be a good time to start working on the skills necessary to become comfortable with this.

 

[Goro]

In two instances, I was interviewing with DO colleagues, and the 3rd was with a PhD. In the latter the person did a "So, goro, what do you think about ...?" and I could see my colleague give an involuntary shudder, while I missed it at first. Then I thought..."wait a minute...did he just call me by my first name?"

In the other two, the person address Drs "AA" and "BB" but their first names as part of an answer...and I could see both of them bristle.

Our Adcoms were amazed at such presumption and these people all earned "reject", which is a rare event for our committee.

That's something new we've seen in the last year or two: addressing interviewers, particularly women who are attending physicians and old enough to be the applicant's mother, by first name even if she's introduced herself as "Dr. Jones" or "Dean Smith". Some adcom members are inclined to be lenient and others want to bring down the auto-reject hammer.

Disrespect always has the same outcome at our meetings.

 

[DokterMom]

These are people who cannot answer a question consisely, and just run on and on, because what they're doing is thinking at the same time their lips are flapping. These are also the type of people for whom one word is never enough when five will do. Ever listen to some people talk and think "is there an end to this story?"

That's the person!

Can I like this one twice? Major pet peeve.

And while I'm pet-peeving, I hate it when the speaker is attempting to explain what 'he' did or said to 'him' and both players are always just 'he' or 'him' throughout the whole long story, so after the first phrase, you ultimately have no idea who did/said what to whom!

 

[repititionition]

This isn't hard, and it conveys openness to your interviewer. It's subtle, and won't draw a comment, but it is a natural posture seen in people who are adjudged to be receptive and open, it is not challenging to the status of the interviewer. You never want to engage the primate doing the interviewing in a territorial dispute. When chimps approach each other palms up, it is body language that conveys cooperation and socialization. The position is primate for "let's work together and be on the same side....let's share food" things you want any adcom to feel when thinking about you as a candidate.

I should add this; it doesn't challenge your interviewer for status it confirms their status as superior to your own at that juncture. It elicits deep primate empathy as it is used by our fellow great apes when begging food or grooming.

Free advice is generally worth what one pays for it, and this proves the maxim.

 

[snowflakes]

What about the times an interview is interrupted? Your site suggests: Interruptions. If you are in the middle of a conversation with a superior or in a meeting that has been interrupted, it is best to look away from the person dealing with the interruption in an effort to give them privacy and to indicate you have disengaged yourself from something that is not your business. Since you're looking away, is it okay to read book titles that line the office walls? I was on a job interview today and my interviewer got interrupted several times. I knew it was a courtesy to not to look at the person needing help, but where do I look? Of course, I know NOT to look at anything on her desk. It was tempting to read a text, but I knew not to do that! So I just read some book titles instead.

Not an interview, but there was one professor who I worked with a lot who would get interruptions ALL the time. I got SO familiar with the titles on his bookcase!

 

[Sanger Sequence]

Free advice is generally worth what one pays for it, and this proves the maxim.

If her advice really didn't help you at all then dont take it, no need to be subtly snide.

@MetalloBetalactamase gave a concise list of things to be cognizant of during an interview, some more obvious than others, and some that I KNOW people seem to overlook. Although it may have not have been a direct answer to the OP, its useful information. Most people who have taken a communications/speech class or studied social cues will understand the importance of body language.

If the only thing from that list that bothers you was the palms up tip (which is well-known non-verbal cue of friendliness) then just dont do it. Its a subtle thing that many wouldn't notice, but for someone who wants to maximize his/her interview skills, its helpful.

 

[familyaerospace]

That's something new we've seen in the last year or two: addressing interviewers, particularly women who are attending physicians and old enough to be the applicant's mother, by first name even if she's introduced herself as "Dr. Jones" or "Dean Smith". Some adcom members are inclined to be lenient and others want to bring down the auto-reject hammer.

I believe Dr House said she had this a few years ago so it wasn't recent. (She's not old, but has been there for a number of years).

I am pretty sure he was rejected but I can't remember. I believe this incident came up when we were discussing what happens if an interviewer states that they are not going to accept you for a certain reason and specifically write up a bad review. She said basically short of some thing like that, one bad interview is not enough to reject you (you do two interviews at Mercer).

 

[juliuspepperwood]

That's something new we've seen in the last year or two: addressing interviewers, particularly women who are attending physicians and old enough to be the applicant's mother, by first name even if she's introduced herself as "Dr. Jones" or "Dean Smith". Some adcom members are inclined to be lenient and others want to bring down the auto-reject hammer.

Seriously? I call physicians I've worked with for years Dr. Name, and I know they wouldn't care if I used their first name. Crazy that people would do that at an interview.

 

[gyngyn]

Seriously? I call physicians I've worked with for years Dr. Name, and I know they wouldn't care if I used their first name. Crazy that people would do that at an interview.

I'll admit that I too, though in practice over 30 years, still call my seniors Dr. Amazing.

 

[mehc012]

As one enters a profession in which we are expected to report unprofessional behavior, even (perhaps especially) in colleagues, this might be a good time to start working on the skills necessary to become comfortable with this.

I'm actually comfortable with it if the net is beneficial to anyone. However, cheating hurts only the cheater, so reporting them just seems...petty. If they want to pursue behavior which is harmful to themselves, and my actions would only worsen their situation, I'm not getting involved.
If it were a friend, I would speak to them for many reasons - the loss of respect on a personal level, the risk they are putting themselves at, the disrespect they are showing to the prof, and the fact that they are only inhibiting their own education. I would not report them, barring extenuating circumstances where their actions somehow actually affected anyone else.
Either way, I'd likely let the prof know that something was off, mostly so they could prevent it in the future, but also because I trust their judgement - I can't imagine coming out of that conversation without them letting me know whether or not they think this is a problem for anyone aside from the student involved, which I would take into consideration.

Thankfully, this never came up at my school, and I cannot even imagine it being an issue. We frequently had closed-book, self-timed takehomes, and even for in-class exams, the prof usually left the room and went down the hall to their office, telling us to come find them if there were any questions. Not once did I see any student or group of students taking advantage of the prof's absence, and more than once have I taken my closed-note take homes in the presence of others or seen them taking theirs, again always without issue. I think my actual response to seeing a classmate cheat would be stunned disbelief, because frankly, it just didn't happen there.

Of course, now that I've written this, I am beginning to reconsider my initial assessment - I'm now really torn as to whether not reporting this sort of cheating would cause it to become more accepted on my campus, and thus decrease the amount of trust and respect I've repeatedly seen between students and profs. Perhaps I would have reported, just to preserve the environment we had. It's all academic now anyway. Of course, I wouldn't say any of this in an interview, though how I'd get out of this question without lying (something I am loath to do) is beyond me.

 

[gyngyn]

I'm actually comfortable with it if the net is beneficial to anyone. However, cheating hurts only the cheater, so reporting them just seems...petty. If they want to pursue behavior which is harmful to themselves, and my actions would only worsen their situation, I'm not getting involved.
If it were a friend, I would speak to them for many reasons - the loss of respect on a personal level, the risk they are putting themselves at, the disrespect they are showing to the prof, and the fact that they are only inhibiting their own education. I would not report them, barring extenuating circumstances where their actions somehow actually affected anyone else.
Either way, I'd likely let the prof know that something was off, mostly so they could prevent it in the future, but also because I trust their judgement - I can't imagine coming out of that conversation without them letting me know whether or not they think this is a problem for anyone aside from the student involved, which I would take into consideration.

Thankfully, this never came up at my school, and I cannot even imagine it being an issue. We frequently had closed-book, self-timed takehomes, and even for in-class exams, the prof usually left the room and went down the hall to their office, telling us to come find them if there were any questions. Not once did I see any student or group of students taking advantage of the prof's office, and more than once have I taken my closed-note take homes in the presence of others or seen them taking theirs, again always without issue. I think my actual response to seeing a classmate cheat would be stunned disbelief, because frankly, it just didn't happen there.

Of course, now that I've written this, I am beginning to reconsider my initial assessment - I'm now really torn as to whether not reporting this sort of cheating would cause it to become more accepted on my campus, and thus decrease the amount of trust and respect I've repeatedly seen between students and profs. Perhaps I would have reported, just to preserve the environment we had. It's all academic now anyway. Of course, I wouldn't say any of this in an interview, though how I'd get out of this question without lying (something I am loath to do) is beyond me.

Your post shows evidence of thoughtful reflection. I am confident that you are on an illuminated path. These steps are part of the serious maturation required in order to deserve the respect that our profession has earned.

 

[HopefulReapp]

That's something new we've seen in the last year or two: addressing interviewers, particularly women who are attending physicians and old enough to be the applicant's mother, by first name even if she's introduced herself as "Dr. Jones" or "Dean Smith". Some adcom members are inclined to be lenient and others want to bring down the auto-reject hammer.

What is the etiquette with responses to "thank you" letters? Several times last year faculty members I interviewed with responded with their first name in the signature line of the email after asking to be kept updated. I never knew if it was appropriate at that time to address them by their first name. I ended up calling them Dr. XX or Ms. YY depending on their title to be safe.

 

[gyngyn]

I never knew if it was appropriate at that time to address them by their first name. I ended up calling them Dr. XX or Ms. YY depending on their title to be safe.

Good.

 

[Amba]

Well, I did try to get some digits at one of my interviews, but I ended up in the reject pile since she had a boyfriend already

Oh. That wasn't what you were referring to, OP.

 

[TresselforPresident]

I knew someone that said they helped doctors abroad and going out of their scope of practice as a pre-dentistry. I assume the same might happen for premed. They second they mentioned it in their interview, they were asked to leave.

Sorry, but would you mind clarifying? I don't think I'm following you

 

[Promethean]

Sorry, but would you mind clarifying? I don't think I'm following you

The lore says that someone once busted out at their interview with a story about how they had been performing services abroad that were outside their scope of practice as a pre-professional student, and were instantly rejected. Think someone bragged about doing dental procedures on a mission trip to the Third World, but they were only an undergrad at the time, and had no formal dentistry training. So, the problem there is either they were unethical because they were lying, or they were unethical because they abused the trust of the patient, who thought that the person helping them was a trained professional, not just a pre-dent trying to rack up a heartwarming EC story. If they had done the same at a free clinic in the US, they would be subject to criminal charges for practicing without a license. Doing it abroad implies jurisdictional issues that would probably prevent prosecution, but it doesn't make it any less a violation against both the patient and the profession.

Regarding the cheating question:

I have had to deal with this in real life. Someone who I had considered a friend obtained a copy of a test that was due to be administered and was sharing information with other people in the class. He was being pushy about it, as if by making sure that everyone benefited from the cheating they would be implicated and unable to report it. It was a very difficult course, and several people in it were on the borderline. That was his justification, that some people would fail if we didn't all cheat, so he handed out a "study guide" that basically ran through the answers for the exam questions.

I did speak to the professor, and it was a good thing that I did, because so did several other people in the class. The professor had already figured out what was going on and changed the test. Everyone who spoke up was given a 100% for the exam grade, and not required to take it. The people who didn't speak up were required to take a harder test and to live with the grade they earned on it. Nobody got kicked out. That surprised me. But some people who might have passed the original exam did end up failing the course because they had been willing to cheat to try to pass it.

So, my take away message from that was that if dude were really my friend, he wouldn't have put me in that position. Even if his intentions were good, he knew better than to do what he did. If I had it to do over again, the only difference would be that I wouldn't hesitate nearly so long to report him.

 

[aklark]

Babbling idiot: "Like, you know, when, like, someone, you know, goes to , like, an emergency department, you know, because they are, like, sick."

Apparently some of these sneak through: The MS1 who gave a tour at the highest ranked school where I interviewed talked exactly like this.

 

[IL Pre Med]

I still call my best friend's parents Mr. and Mrs. X and I've known them for over 10 years. It's just a sign of respect, I can't believe these people are calling adcoms by their first names. These applicants must have multiple acceptances and really don't give a crap about the school that they're at. That seems to be the most plausible explanation, I mean if you had 5 acceptances and one was your top choice why not go to a 6th school and just casually mess around, kind of your way of getting back at the application process. Idk that's my best guess!

 

[Annabell Lee]

I know in my generation first names are the norm, but I don't know how one goes 18+ years with out realizing that you're suppose to use last names in formal situations.

In my school (nursing not medicine) all instructors are mr/mrs whatever, and they call all the students by last name (except in mental health rotations). When I teach Sunday school I'm Miss Annabell. I'm so use to this, that when someone who isn't a friend or a patient calls me by just my first name I feel kind of taken back. Our program director occasionally uses first names with us and it just feels...weird. I'm young though so people expect me to use first names, but I preffer Mr/Mrs/Ma'am/Sir.

Biggest pet peeve is people who give nick names without knowing you well. My real first name can be shortened two different ways. I've had conversations like this:

"So, Annabell Lee, do you go by Annabell or Bell? "
You can call me Annabell or Anna.
*3 minutes later*
"Blah blah blah...what do you think Bell?"

 

[G_Marker]

In two instances, I was interviewing with DO colleagues, and the 3rd was with a PhD. In the latter the person did a "So, goro, what do you think about ...?" and I could see my colleague give an involuntary shudder, while I missed it at first. Then I thought..."wait a minute...did he just call me by my first name?"

In the other two, the person address Drs "AA" and "BB" but their first names as part of an answer...and I could see both of them bristle.

Our Adcoms were amazed at such presumption and these people all earned "reject", which is a rare event for our committee.

That's something new we've seen in the last year or two: addressing interviewers, particularly women who are attending physicians and old enough to be the applicant's mother, by first name even if she's introduced herself as "Dr. Jones" or "Dean Smith". Some adcom members are inclined to be lenient and others want to bring down the auto-reject hammer.

Disrespect always has the same outcome at our meetings.

While I would never do this, I think I can understand the type of people that would. Where I went to college, everyone called their professors by their first names. I had trouble doing this, so I'd just call professors by their title and last name. One day, I called my adviser by her title and last name, and she actually gets MAD about it. Not just teasing mad, but legitimately like, 'why are you calling me that? why can't you call me by my name?'

Also, at the elementary school I went to, we called our teachers by their first names (it was a very progressive Montessori school). I can see how some people might not see it as a sign of disrespect. In a lot of these places, it was more just about being friendly and avoiding barriers between teachers and students.

I definitely think friendliness takes a back seat to professionalism during certain situations, though. I can't believe that someone would call their interviewer by their first name!

 

[Long Way to Go]

That's something new we've seen in the last year or two: addressing interviewers, particularly women who are attending physicians and old enough to be the applicant's mother, by first name even if she's introduced herself as "Dr. Jones" or "Dean Smith". Some adcom members are inclined to be lenient and others want to bring down the auto-reject hammer.

I can sort of understand why someone might do this - physicians and researchers in every department I have ever worked have always insisted on being referred to by their first name, even by the undergrad RAs. But what kind of applicant does that to an interviewer on the very first meeting?

 

[Promethean]

I can sort of understand why someone might do this - physicians and researchers in every department I have ever worked have always insisted on being referred to by their first name, even by the undergrad RAs. But what kind of applicant does that to an interviewer on the very first meeting?

Agreed. I like the idea of lowering barriers between people and flattening hierarchies, but part of the interview process is about showing that you do understand how boundaries work and that you can work within them when necessary. The interviewers get only a brief opportunity to evaluate how likely you are to be either an asset or a liability to the program. They have to make a full picture of who you are out of a few pages of information and an hour or less of observing your behavior, so everything takes on far more meaning than it would carry in every day life. Using their first name might just be a momentary lapse of manners by an otherwise awesome applicant, or it could be the only hint they will get that the interviewee is an obnoxious narcissist. When there are so many others to choose from, why take the risk?

 

[KanyeWes]

but you should answer it honestly, regardless.... if you lie about a question referring to your morals (or any question for that matter), i'm pretty sure that's a no no lol.

no, there are absolutely wrong answers to moral questions imho.

if someone asks you about stealing or cheating, the automatic answer is to take the next step to rectify the issue. whether that be to investigate the issue yourself to confirm it is cheating (not jump to conclusions) or the tell someone about it.

 

[baxt1412]

no, there are absolutely wrong answers to moral questions imho.

if someone asks you about stealing or cheating, the automatic answer is to take the next step to rectify the issue. whether that be to investigate the issue yourself to confirm it is cheating (not jump to conclusions) or the tell someone about it.

I don't understand what you are saying... I said that people shouldn't lie about anything, but especially not about moral issues (since lying is generally considered immoral).

 

[KanyeWes]

I don't understand what you are saying... I said that people shouldn't lie about anything, but especially not about moral issues (since lying is generally considered immoral).

and I am saying is that you should.

Ex. You dinged someone's Ferrari on the driver's door. No one sees you do it and there are no cameras. There is no way anyone will catch you. The repair will likely cost you well over 15 grand, which you don't have. What would you do?

Real answer, drive away. people do this all the time. some psychopaths might even laugh, because a guy who drives a Ferrari deserves it (for whatever reason).

The right answer, I would leave a note with my contact information, because it is the right thing to do and I am responsible for my own actions, regardless of the fallout.

The real answer, especially if you are the kind of guy who would laugh, is the wrong answer. you would never say this, even if it is the truth. Always give the right answer over the real answer...in a way that is convincing.