Girlfriend's dad is a personal injury lawyer...

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
E

ERDude

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
107
Reaction score
73
Let's say you started seriously dating somebody who's dad is a (very successful) personal injury lawyer.

I think most would agree that from a practical, non-reactive point of view you can't judge somebody based on their parents' profession and it's just one piece of a large pie...but still, what is your reaction to the situation?
Members don't see this ad.
 
Apples don't fall far from trees, man.

I'll get out there and state that I have a very strong moral compass... because my Dad had a very strong moral compass.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
My old lady's best friend's dad is a med-mal lawyer and I got roped into sitting next to him at a baseball game one day. The guy was trying to be nice, but it was hard to overcome the urge to dump a bag of peanuts on him and run off. Thankfully the game didn't go into extra innings.

If this guy does med mal I'd run far, far away...unless you're totally cool with the med-mal lawyer bidness.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Members don't see this ad :)
namethatsmell said:
My old lady's best friend's dad is a med-mal lawyer and I got roped into sitting next to him at a baseball game one day. The guy was trying to be nice, but it was hard to overcome the urge to dump a bag of peanuts on him and run off. Thankfully the game didn't go into extra innings.

If this guy does med mal I'd run far, far away...unless you're totally cool with the med-mal lawyer bidness.
Click to expand...

Ummm...what's with the armpit sniffing? LOL :depressed:
 
ERDude said:
Let's say you started seriously dating somebody who's dad is a (very successful) personal injury lawyer.

I think most would agree that from a practical, non-reactive point of view you can't judge somebody based on their parents' profession and it's just one piece of a large pie...but still, what is your reaction to the situation?
Click to expand...
I'll be the guy to ask it...is she hot?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
My gf's uncle is a prominent personal injury lawyer. Friendly guy, but I don't think there's anything he can do to entirely shake that sleeze
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Bonus to the situation: if you got hitched, he could never try a case against you!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Think it depends on your girlfriend's relationship to her dad. If she worships the the ground he walks on, I would tread very carefully. It's kind of like the "momma's boy" situation where the guy's wife is always second to the guy's mom. That's what I would be wary of.
 
my aunt is a med mal lawyer. we can agree that lawsuits are often baseless, emotional money grabs. however, there are also physicians who occasionally act with gross negligence, the kind most of us can agree about, and those actions can result in serious injury or death. if it was one of my family members on the business end of that kind of negligence, are we going to hire an attorney? absolutely.

it makes us feel better to make things black and white.
 
I think if she is hot, level headed and you guys get along.. who cares what her dad does.

Few highly successful people dont have some warts. We have the "pre-med gunners". These people are turds. I get along with people but during my freshman year someone tried to sabotage a chemistry lab thing cause they knew my grades were strong. Keep in mind they knew this not because I shared my grades but because I was kind enough to help them with some stuff. Just stupid ass people out there in medicine and law and business.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Members don't see this ad :)
Kill her father and impregnate her. That was the answer you wanted, right?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
ERDude said:
Let's say you started seriously dating somebody who's dad is a (very successful) personal injury lawyer.

I think most would agree that from a practical, non-reactive point of view you can't judge somebody based on their parents' profession and it's just one piece of a large pie...but still, what is your reaction to the situation?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't worry about it. In fact, it may be a good thing. It never hurts to have lawyer connections. Think how much inside med-mal advice he could give you that would help you in a preventative way. People love to slam lawyers, but the minute they get into some serious s--t, what's the first thing they do? Lawyer up. I've never known a doctor afraid to "lawyer up" when needed. Like any other professional service, they can be used for good use (med mal defense) or bad (ambulance chasers).

Though I don't often quote mobsters, this one couldn't have said it any better,

"Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer" - Michael Corleone
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
deanthedream17 said:
My father is a trauma surgeon (board certified general surgeon) because his malpractice got too high because when you work in such a high risk area it is essentially impossible to not get sued when you have a long 30-40 yr career. Especially in urban, underserved areas many of your patients come from certain demographics that are poor and are looking for money however they can get it. There would be lawyers outside the hospital just waiting to get cases bc they knew they could get money on fradulent tort cases. The scum lawyers can sue, make you defend youselves, and even if you win, your reputation got hurt and you lost money not working during that time or through defending yourself. Only in American do we not have an English system of "loser pays" Eventually he got named in a tort case after he helped a friend on a complicated surgery. Long story short. Malpractice gets too high from these things (even one), all those years of schooling which for him was a minimum educationally of 13 go out the window and he can now longer save lives because you are forced out (can't afford malpractice insurance). My dad is extremely intelligent and growing up he was very upset about what happened and took that bitterness out on us. Medical malpractice reform is needed so badly, but people don't understand it. No one feels bad for the docs and the lawyers have the power. Think about all the people he could have saved in over 15 years of not actively practicing surgery.
Click to expand...
Thank you for posting that. It's very powerful, especially the part where you say this affected you, even as a child. It affected your father so much it bled over into your childhood. You didn't deserve that ****.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
ERDude said:
Let's say you started seriously dating somebody who's dad is a (very successful) personal injury lawyer.

I think most would agree that from a practical, non-reactive point of view you can't judge somebody based on their parents' profession and it's just one piece of a large pie...but still, what is your reaction to the situation?
Click to expand...
Don't worry about it. My dad is a personal injury lawyer too. I don't really see what the problem is.
 
AspiringERMD said:
Don't worry about it. My dad is a personal injury lawyer too. I don't really see what the problem is.
Click to expand...
Well obviously. You're the child of a lawyer and you're still pre-med. Come back to us when either a) you've been sued or b) someone you know/work with in medicine has been and you've watched what that process does to them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
VA Hopeful Dr said:
Well obviously. You're the child of a lawyer and you're still pre-med. Come back to us when either a) you've been sued or b) someone you know/work with in medicine has been and you've watched what that process does to them.
Click to expand...
I agree that I probably need more perspective. But I will say that my dad has just as many doctor friends as anyone his age. He knows he sees a very biased sample (e.g. people who have cut off the non-gangrenous leg), and he doesn't hold the entire profession in contempt. He, and other lawyers I know, leave it at work.

However, I will again concede that additional perspective might change my
mind. *shrug*
 
AspiringERMD said:
I agree that I probably need more perspective. But I will say that my dad has just as many doctor friends as anyone his age. He knows he sees a very biased sample (e.g. people who have cut off the non-gangrenous leg), and he doesn't hold the entire profession in contempt. He, and other lawyers I know, leave it at work.

However, I will again concede that additional perspective might change my
mind. *shrug*
Click to expand...
No one is arguing that genuine malpractice doesn't occur, and maybe your dad is one of the rare ones who only takes the super obvious cases. I don't mean to insult your father or anything.

The part I put in bold is really the key to this whole issue. To lawyers, bringing malpractice suits is just part of the job. Same way as treating a UTI is for me. What is often missed is the impact that suing a doctor has on that doctor. I would bet good money that every attending in here has a friend/partner/residency classmate who has been sued and then ended up having issues with depression, substance abuse, marriage issues, or similar things.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
VA Hopeful Dr said:
. What is often missed is the impact that suing a doctor has on that doctor. I would bet good money that every attending in here has a friend/partner/residency classmate who has been sued and then ended up having issues with depression, substance abuse, marriage issues, or similar things.
Click to expand...

That's where we need to take the bull by the horns and do better. The lawyers aren't going to stop suing doctors out of pity. Patients aren't going to demand tort reform out of pity for those who they see as "rich greedy doctors." That's where we need to take a lesson from the attorneys themselves and view it as nothing more that a business or a "job." Medicine has been reduced to that, by people and factors out of our control. It's unfortunate maybe, but necessary. Many of us went in Medicine with idealistic intent, but that naive viewpoint is outdated, and just makes you vulnerable, in my opinion. No one sues their nun, priest or rabbi. So let's not be so naive as to think we're viewed as untouchable, and as pure.

I understand, it's easier said than done, but we need to take ownership of this as a profession.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Birdstrike said:
That's where we need to take the bull by the horns and do better. The lawyers aren't going to stop suing doctors out of pity. Patients aren't going to demand tort reform out of pity for those who they see as "rich greedy doctors." That's where we need to take a lesson from the attorneys themselves and view it as nothing more that a business or a "job." Medicine has been reduced to that, by people and factors out of our control. It's unfortunate maybe, but necessary. Many of us went in Medicine with idealistic intent, but that naive viewpoint is outdated, and just makes you vulnerable, in my opinion. No one sues their nun, priest or rabbi. So let's not be so naive as to think we're viewed as untouchable, and as pure.
Click to expand...
For our own sanity, you're absolutely right. However, and maybe I'll feel different a few more years in practice, I'm not sure I want medicine to just be a job. I still like the idealism.

Then again, I'm a family doctor so my world is a bit different from the rest of you here.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
VA Hopeful Dr said:
For our own sanity, you're absolutely right. However, and maybe I'll feel different a few more years in practice, I'm not sure I want medicine to just be a job. I still like the idealism.
Click to expand...

I want it that way too. But how do you reconcile a profession as an idealistic healer, with one that has as a definitive part of it's job description, the inevitability of being taken to court and accused of malpractice and negligence, when the overwhelming likelihood is that you did your job correctly? It's not the rare, drunk/high/deranged negligent doctor, that gets sued. It's Dr. Everyman.

From NEJM:

Likelihood of being sued in career, low risk specialty: 75%

Likelihood of being sued in career, high risk specialty: 99%

Likelihood of losing/settling/paying out in suit in career, low risk specialty: 19%

Likelihood of losing/settling/paying out in suit in career, high risk specialty: 71%

See Figure 4, Cumulative Career Malpractice Risk

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsa1012370#results

http://www.nejm.org/action/showImage?doi=10.1056/NEJMsa1012370&iid=f04


How do you reconcile the idealism of the Hippocratic physician from 2000 years ago, with the one who pays >$100,000 to get his diploma nowadays, is handcuffed by thousands of pages of governmental and insurance-agency regulations, is expected to be as ever pleasing as a Fortune 500 company customer service representative, and has to deal with the inevitable reality of being viewed as a lottery ticket?

Maintain the idealism, at your own risk.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
VA Hopeful Dr said:
For our own sanity, you're absolutely right. However, and maybe I'll feel different a few more years in practice, I'm not sure I want medicine to just be a job. I still like the idealism.

Then again, I'm a family doctor so my world is a bit different from the rest of you here.
Click to expand...

If you think as a family physician you are somehow safe from lawsuits you are horribly mistaken. You may not be among the highest risk specialties, but you are not that far off from EM level risk either (EM and FM are both in the 5-10% group). Your speciality's particular risk mostly comes from 'failure to refer' early.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3204310/figure/F1/
Jena AB et al. Malpractice risk according to physician speciality. NEJM 2012

Edit: just realized I quoted the same article as Birdstrike exactly 1 post up. Lol.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
gro2001 said:
If you think as a family physician you are somehow safe from lawsuits you are horribly mistaken. You may not be among the highest risk specialties, but you are not that far off from EM level risk either (EM and FM are both in the 5-10% group). Your speciality's particular risk mostly comes from 'failure to refer' early.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3204310/figure/F1/
Jena AB et al. Malpractice risk according to physician speciality. NEJM 2012

Edit: just realized I quoted the same article as Birdstrike exactly 1 post up. Lol.
Click to expand...
FM is 4th lowest, even if the raw numbers aren't that different. Plus, I would worry about lawsuits much more if I was seeing 20 new patients per day compared to my 20 patients I've known for 10 years. The stats prove that they are less likely to sue me.

That being said, and I don't know if this has actually been studied, you have to remember that family medicine has significant variety. There are FPs who still do deliveries, some with c-sections. Lots that still work in EDs. I'd bet you that those 2 subsets skew our numbers a decent bit.
 
VA Hopeful Dr said:
No one is arguing that genuine malpractice doesn't occur, and maybe your dad is one of the rare ones who only takes the super obvious cases. I don't mean to insult your father or anything.

The part I put in bold is really the key to this whole issue. To lawyers, bringing malpractice suits is just part of the job. Same way as treating a UTI is for me. What is often missed is the impact that suing a doctor has on that doctor. I would bet good money that every attending in here has a friend/partner/residency classmate who has been sued and then ended up having issues with depression, substance abuse, marriage issues, or similar things.
Click to expand...

.
 
Last edited:
deanthedream17 said:
Tell the docs you interview with that you see no problem that your dad does medical malpractice law and they will reject you right on the spot. Tell your dad he has blood money on his hands. The fact that you are going into this field after the havoc your dad has wreaked on it makes me think you're not right in the head.
Click to expand...
Unnecessary.
 
People are rather blase about their everyday environment.

A friend of mine was involved in a traffic accident. The police report accidentally listed her vehicle as a 2014 Ford, instead of the correct 2004 Ford. She then received a letter from the DMV telling her if she did not provide proof of insurance for her unregistered (to them) 2014 Ford her license would be suspended and she would be arrested. She contacted the police officer who told her "Don't worry. I will get it taken care of. No big deal." It wasn't to him. For someone with no contact with the criminal justice system, IT IS a "big deal."

The same thing with many medical procedures. "Oh an ERCP?" "No big deal, they just knock you out, stick a tube down your throat, and stick a tube out of that into your liver." (Obviously in a friend/friend relationship, not a professional encounter.) However, to someone who has never had any sort of procedure, it certainly is a "big deal."

Same thing with the lawyer. To them it is just routine business. "So what if you are sued? It will probably be dismissed, if not insurance will cover it. No big deal. Just everyday, routine business." I guess the point is that lawyers don't see suing someone as any different than sticking a needle in someone's spine or a tube in their chest.

It just depends on your perspective. A neurosurgeon once wrote about the "prototypical surgical psychopath" - a state that every surgeon (and likely every physician) must reach: "Someone who could render a patient quadriplegic in the morning, play golf in the afternoon, and spend the evening fretting about that terrible slice off the seventh tee."

(As an aside, I doubt you can find a board certified EM physician who has NOT had "blood on his hands." An odd metaphor/idiom to chose on this website.)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
AspiringERMD said:
Unnecessary.
Click to expand...

I can't vouch for the second half, but, just because you deem it "unnecessary" does not make it untrue. What we know about you, from what you posted, is from where one draws conclusions.

And, just objectively, when you interview for a job, tell whomever it is that your girlfriend's father (and, by then, maybe your father in law) does med mal, and you're all right with that. Just see how it goes. I am no seer, but, I would guess (with a little more knowledge, versus a truly uninformed guess) that your stock will plummet precipitously.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Vandalia said:
A neurosurgeon once wrote about the "prototypical surgical psychopath" - a state that every surgeon (and likely every physician) must reach: "Someone who could render a patient quadriplegic in the morning, play golf in the afternoon, and spend the evening fretting about that terrible slice off the seventh tee."
Click to expand...

Please, I'm begging you. Find me the link to this. I need to read this.
 
Could we please stop beating up on the "AspiringERMD" because we don't like what his/her father does? It's pointless. If my dad was a med-mal lawyer, trust me, he'd be the one perfect one, too.
 
Apollyon said:
I can't vouch for the second half, but, just because you deem it "unnecessary" does not make it untrue. What we know about you, from what you posted, is from where one draws conclusions.

And, just objectively, when you interview for a job, tell whomever it is that your girlfriend's father (and, by then, maybe your father in law) does med mal, and you're all right with that. Just see how it goes. I am no seer, but, I would guess (with a little more knowledge, versus a truly uninformed guess) that your stock will plummet precipitously.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry, I must have missed the part where the OP was talking about job interviews instead of a girlfriend's dad. I never said anything about interviews.

And I already said that I'm sure I will gain additional perspective on this in the coming years, rather than being clairvoyant enough to know it an ahead of time... so really, what's the point of all this? Jesus.
 
AspiringERMD said:
I'm sorry, I must have missed the part where the OP was talking about job interviews instead of a girlfriend's dad. I never said anything about interviews.

And I already said that I'm sure I will gain additional perspective on this in the coming years, rather than being clairvoyant enough to know it an ahead of time... so really, what's the point of all this? Jesus.
Click to expand...

"Jesus", I mistook you for the OP (because who it is clearly didn't really matter much to me). But, you know what? Do what your heart tells you. All I am saying is to not be surprised if it isn't what you wish it would be. That's all.

"Jesus."
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Birdstrike said:
Please, I'm begging you. Find me the link to this. I need to read this.
Click to expand...

When the Air Hits Your Brain: Tales from Neurosurgery, by Frank Vertosick Jr., M.D., W.W. Newton Company, New York, 2008, page 132 in the paperback edition.

I think quoting the whole paragraph would be "fair use":

He was, as Gary (neurosurgery chief resident) acidly put it, the "prototypical surgical psychopath" - someone who could render a patient quadriplegic in the morning, play golf in the afternoon, and spend an evening fretting about that terrible slice off the seventh tee. At the time, that sounded like a terrible thing, but I soon learned that Filipiano was no different than any other experienced neurosurgeon in this regard. He couldn't morn every bad result - not without going insane. He handled hopeless cases on a daily basis. After one especially grisly complication, I asked Filipiano if surgery ever got to him. He quoted an old Russian saying: "People who cry at funerals shouldn't become undertakers."

http://www.amazon.com/When-Air-Hits-Your-Brain/dp/0393330494
 
deanthedream17 said:
My father is a trauma surgeon (board certified general surgeon) because his malpractice got too high because when you work in such a high risk area it is essentially impossible to not get sued when you have a long 30-40 yr career. Especially in urban, underserved areas many of your patients come from certain demographics that are poor and are looking for money however they can get it. There would be lawyers outside the hospital just waiting to get cases bc they knew they could get money on fradulent tort cases. The scum lawyers can sue, make you defend youselves, and even if you win, your reputation got hurt and you lost money not working during that time or through defending yourself. Only in American do we not have an English system of "loser pays" Eventually he got named in a tort case after he helped a friend on a complicated surgery. Long story short. Malpractice gets too high from these things (even one), all those years of schooling which for him was a minimum educationally of 13 go out the window and he can now longer save lives because you are forced out (can't afford malpractice insurance). My dad is extremely intelligent and growing up he was very upset about what happened and took that bitterness out on us. Medical malpractice reform is needed so badly, but people don't understand it. No one feels bad for the docs and the lawyers have the power. Think about all the people he could have saved in over 15 years of not actively practicing surgery.
Click to expand...



I feel you.
 
Apollyon said:
I can't vouch for the second half, but, just because you deem it "unnecessary" does not make it untrue. What we know about you, from what you posted, is from where one draws conclusions.

And, just objectively, when you interview for a job, tell whomever it is that your girlfriend's father (and, by then, maybe your father in law) does med mal, and you're all right with that. Just see how it goes. I am no seer, but, I would guess (with a little more knowledge, versus a truly uninformed guess) that your stock will plummet precipitously.
Click to expand...

.
 
Last edited:
I'm sure getting on that list does not leave open the option of keeping ones dignity intact? Please explain.
 
Birdstrike said:
I'm sure getting on that list does not leave open the option of keeping ones dignity intact? Please explain.
Click to expand...

In some cases, certainly. But not necessarily.

If patients like you, you can almost literally get away with murder. That is why "family physicians" are much less likely to be sued than the more anonymous radiology, anesthesiology, pathology, or even emergency medicine physicians.

There were two other physicians practicing in the small town I grew up in. One was probably the most brilliant physician I ever knew. He also had an incredibly abrasive personality. He had been sued 3-4 times. The other had (being generous) the medical knowledge of an MS-1. He made some truly egregious medical errors, but was never sued because his patients loved him. Our next door neighbor was an attorney. He said that even if a patient wanted to bring suit, he would not do it on a contingency basis because he knew there was no chance he could win. (A lawyer can only refuse a client if there is a disagreement over payment.) The second physician was so beloved in the town that no jury would ever return a malpractice verdict against him.

There is a reason the first "A" is to be "affable." It doesn't become any less important once you leave the medical education system.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Birdstrike said:
I'm sure getting on that list does not leave open the option of keeping ones dignity intact? Please explain.
Click to expand...

Think of it this way. Let's say there are 6 ambulance-chasers in town. Each of them has a family member who happens to be a doc. How often do you suppose those docs get sued? Not very often I assure you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

D
Personal injury law deposition
Replies
21
Views
2K
Rendar5
R
wholeheartedly
Hockey player neck injury
Replies
36
Views
3K
Boatswain2PA
Boatswain2PA
RustedFox
Send lawyers, guns, and money.
Replies
35
Views
2K
The Knife & Gun Club
The Knife & Gun Club
gro2001
Personal EMR?
Replies
18
Views
1K
TooMuchResearch
T
cyanide12345678
Inability to intubate because of rotator cuff injury
Replies
21
Views
1K
BoardingDoc
BoardingDoc
Top