Giving Up My Cali Residency?

[vanillacheesecake]

Hi friends,

As medical school applications draw closer, I'm beginning to wonder if I should change my state of residence. I'm originally from California, but I go to school in Ohio and am eligible to change my state of residence. Just wondering whether this is something that I should consider since Cali doesn't give a lot of IS love, and because my stats aren't super competitive to begin with. Would this help in any way?

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[Pusheen]

edited

 

[Holmwood]

From my knowledge, CA public schools are almost all filled with in state students. They are plenty friendly to in state, but definitely a notch above the national average GPA and MCAT wise. There don't seem to be any low tier schools here.

In terms of acceptance, they don't have a super strong instate preference relative to other public unis.

In terms of people who eventually decide to matriculate, the majority of them tend to be cali residents. I believe a large proportion of out-of-state peeps who are accepted don't matriculate there for various reasons.

 

[vanillacheesecake]

Sorry I think I phrased my question wrong. I didn't want to change my residency to Ohio because I thought I'd get a more competitive edge applying to Cali schools OOS. My reasoning was that since Cali schools probably don't want me either way, would I get a little more love from Ohio if I were IS there?

 

[Ellie Arroway]

Research the Ohio schools. If they have a STRONG preference for in-state students I would consider it, but otherwise no.

 

[Flashfan]

Ohio has a lot of medical schools. Even their DO school is public and considered to be excellent. It is a good state for average stats. Ohio State doesn't have a strong in-state bias, but U of Cincinnati, U of Toledo, Wright State and Northeast Ohio do.

 

[wegotthis14]

I'm going to be honest with you, if your stats aren't super competitive to begin with, California schools are going to be difficult. That being said, I don't know what your definitely of "super competitive" is, and if you apply early and you're dedicated to serving as a primary care physician or to serving inland California, Davis and Riverside deeply value that.

 

[songl4a]

.

 

[gyngyn]

Only 14.7% of CA's 5,900 applicants matriculate IS. That is only 870 students.
Most successful CA applicants go OOS: 24.3% or 1,436 students.

Compare this to OH where 34.9% or 608/1744 matriculate IS! Only 190 matriculate OOS.

I think the difference is clear even before one looks at median metrics between schools of each state.

 

[peanutsss]

....

 

[pageantry]

Only 14.7% of CA's 5,900 applicants matriculate IS. That is only 870 students.
Most successful CA applicants go OOS: 24.3% or 1,436 students.

Compare this to OH where 34.9% or 608/1744 matriculate IS! Only 190 matriculate OOS.

I think the difference is clear even before one looks at median metrics between schools of each state.

Do you happen to know the breakdown for NY, gyngyn? I've been looking for this info, comparing NY and CA.

P.S. To the OP, I don't know if it will influence your choice, but something a lot of people don't know is that CA high school graduates/GED recipients get grandfathered in for in-state tuition, no matter where they end up living. On your app you only get to put one state of residence, but if you became an Ohio resident and still somehow got accepted to a California school, you could still qualify for in-state tuition there.

 

[sunnysnow7]

Definitely apply as a OH resident. I know plenty of folks with 3.8+ GPAs and 36+ MCAT scores who had to leave CA for med school. Your odds of acceptance will be much, much better in OH.

 

[gyngyn]

Do you happen to know the breakdown for NY, gyngyn? I've been looking for this info, comparing NY and CA.

P.S. To the OP, I don't know if it will influence your choice, but something a lot of people don't know is that CA high school graduates/GED recipients get grandfathered in for in-state tuition, no matter where they end up living. On your app you only get to put one state of residence, but if you became an Ohio resident and still somehow got accepted to a California school, you could still qualify for in-state tuition there.

NY had 3400 applicants. 985 matriculated IS (29%). 542 went OOS.
https://www.aamc.org/download/321466/data/factstable5.pdf

 

[pageantry]

NY had 3400 applicants. 985 matriculated IS (29%). 542 went OOS.
https://www.aamc.org/download/321466/data/factstable5.pdf

Aw, bless, thank you. That's huge.

 

[Deranged Medic]

Hi friends,

As medical school applications draw closer, I'm beginning to wonder if I should change my state of residence. I'm originally from California, but I go to school in Ohio and am eligible to change my state of residence. Just wondering whether this is something that I should consider since Cali doesn't give a lot of IS love, and because my stats aren't super competitive to begin with. Would this help in any way?

Agree with the advice to switch to Ohio. We have a whole lot of medical schools, and besides OSU, there is a pretty big instate bias. (IDK about Case, but who wants to live in Cleveland???)

 

[wegotthis14]

Ohio also has some pretty great medical schools! I interviewed at both OSU and U Cincinnati, and they're both very good schools with happy students and lots of excellent medical opportunities. They're also easier to get into if you're IS.

 

[vanillacheesecake]

Agree with the advice to switch to Ohio. We have a whole lot of medical schools, and besides OSU, there is a pretty big instate bias. (IDK about Case, but who wants to live in Cleveland???)

That's hilarious because I go to CWRU right now for undergrad bahahaha

 

[ski89]

@vanillacheesecake
I also agree with changing your residency to Ohio. But I would also add that you should make it clear in your secondary applications to those schools that you have "fallen in love with the state of Ohio and have a strong desire to serve the communities of Ohio as a physician". I think this is important since it may be apparent based on your application that you are actually from California (in terms of where your roots are and where you may likely return after medical school/residency). Whether this is true or not, it may be wise to make a statement about how committed you are to staying in Ohio since that is the point of giving preference to instate students.

 

[Deranged Medic]

That's hilarious because I go to CWRU right now for undergrad bahahaha

Awesome! I should have seen you were from Cleveland. The more north you go, the more I dislike the state of Ohio. I'm from Dayton, but I'm a big fan of southern Ohio. Southern Ohio has a bit of terrain, while northern Ohio just seems to be flat and boring.

 

[EasternMer]

Hi friends,

As medical school applications draw closer, I'm beginning to wonder if I should change my state of residence. I'm originally from California, but I go to school in Ohio and am eligible to change my state of residence. Just wondering whether this is something that I should consider since Cali doesn't give a lot of IS love, and because my stats aren't super competitive to begin with. Would this help in any way?

I wouldn't for three reasons.

1) there are many other states that are less IS-friendly simply because they don't have as many Medical Schools. My state for example only provides spots to 20%, the other 80% have to go out of state.

2) You're golden if you care about the missions of schools like UC-Riverside. Also, there's a crapton of Medical Schools in CA

3) As a Cali Resident, there are schools across that US that favor CA Residents for their OOS spots.


Unless you're moving to Texas or Florida, don't give it up.


EDIT: Just read about Ohio...yeah I'd go for OH!

 

[peanutsss]

.....

 

[xxabi]

Hi everyone,

On a similar page, I am a California resident however I've attended both my undergraduate and graduate programs in Louisiana and if I chose to stay in Louisiana for this upcoming year (with a job) while applying, I'd qualify as an IS application for both LSU-NOLA and LSU-Shreveport (which only takes IS). My stats aren't super competitive (3.4cum undergraduate, 3.7 in my SMP in Louisinaa) so I'm seriously considering the switch.

What are your thoughts since Louisiana unlike Ohio only have two medical schools. I'd love the feedback since my decision needs to be made in the next few weeks!

 

[On Eagle's Wings]

Really depends on your stats and activities. I had decent stats (LizzyM 72-74) and got into 2 Cali schools after applying to only CA schools (a big risk I know).

 

[resiroth]

I would counter that assumption. I would say my app is above average. LizzyM of ~75+. 5-10 interviews, none in California despite applying to all of them. I had a bunch of interviews at "top places" and was accepted to one of them with scholarship, as well as some other good schools.

My experience was that California schools are decidedly less predictable than the top 20. I wish I had changed my residency + applied more to top 20.

UC schools consistently confuse me. Some of the worst applicants I've known have gotten into great Californian schools. Someone struggling with basic biology? Seems like a good fit for UCSF! Housemate with an 80 and strong research with desire to continue their relationship with PIs at UCSF? Nah.

A lot of UCs have a really weird combination of exceptional research with primary care focus.

UCSF for ex. Has exceptional research as an institution, but not particularly ambitious or impressive med students (relative to Stanford or Hopkins). Just my experience though.

 

[Womb Raider]

Should've went to school in Texas.

 

[resiroth]

Should've went to school in Texas.

Seriously dat Texas swag. Problem is like @gyngyn says most Texas applicants are assumed to go to school in-state because it's so cheap. So it's good in a lot of ways, unless you're a very strong applicant. A top 10 might pass over you because they know they're asking you to pay 250-300k and Texas is like 100k.

 

[drjay16]

...

 

[On Eagle's Wings]

My experience was that California schools are decidedly less predictable than the top 20. I wish I had changed my residency + applied more to top 20.

UC schools consistently confuse me. Some of the worst applicants I've known have gotten into great Californian schools. Someone struggling with basic biology? Seems like a good fit for UCSF! Housemate with an 80 and strong research with desire to continue their relationship with PIs at UCSF? Nah.

A lot of UCs have a really weird combination of exceptional research with primary care focus.

UCSF for ex. Has exceptional research as an institution, but not particularly ambitious or impressive med students (relative to Stanford or Hopkins). Just my experience though.

I feel like CA schools, as with all medical schools, really want students that fit in with their mission statement. They do not want Cali students just because they are Cali students; they want the best students that fit in with their mission. The two Cali schools I got into both fit my goals and mission very well, and you could tell from my app an my activities that it was a good fit. The ones I did not get into were because I really did not fit in with their mission.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

You call it "Cali," so you're pretty much not from here. Change your residency.

 

[gyngyn]

I gotta disagree with you. Having been accepted to Stanford, Hopkins and ucsf, I know for a fact from ASW that a large majority of students were accepted to all 3. Many people chose ucsf over Hopkins this year. You just sound bitter tbh.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Only 193 out of 3870 TX applicants matriculated OOS.
This is the smallest % of any state. I am sure that they were the best of the best that TX had to offer. They would have had to be since we only interview those for whom recruitment $ is likely to be available.

 

[gyngyn]

From my knowledge, CA public schools are almost all filled with in state students. They are plenty friendly to in state, but definitely a notch above the national average GPA and MCAT wise. There don't seem to be any low tier schools here.

Only two schools in CA have a preference for IS applicants: UCR and UCD.
CA has relatively few medical school seats for the population.
UCLA alone had 919 applicants last year. Only 870 CA residents matriculated in CA!
We exported 1436 excellent candidates. Compare this to TX that only exported 193!

 

[gyngyn]

Hi everyone,

On a similar page, I am a California resident however I've attended both my undergraduate and graduate programs in Louisiana and if I chose to stay in Louisiana for this upcoming year (with a job) while applying, I'd qualify as an IS application for both LSU-NOLA and LSU-Shreveport (which only takes IS). My stats aren't super competitive (3.4cum undergraduate, 3.7 in my SMP in Louisinaa) so I'm seriously considering the switch.

What are your thoughts since Louisiana unlike Ohio only have two medical schools. I'd love the feedback since my decision needs to be made in the next few weeks!

LA had an IS matriculation of 39.8%. CA had 14.7%.

 

[DokterMom]

Only 193 out of 3870 TX applicants matriculated OOS.
This is the smallest % of any state. I am sure that they were the best of the best that TX had to offer. They would have had to be since we only interview those for whom recruitment $ is likely to be available.

Exactly. Why would a Texas student choose to go to a medical school outside of Texas?

1. The school is THAT much better. And there simply aren't that many schools that are significantly better than Texas' two strongest. So by definition, only the very top students and only the very top medical schools.
   
2. They're that rich and that desperate to leave home.

 

[Goro]

2a. TX is brutally hot in the summer!
2b. Southern TX is brutally hot and humid in the summer!

Exactly. Why would a Texas student choose to go to a medical school outside of Texas?

1. The school is THAT much better. And there simply aren't that many schools that are significantly better than Texas' two strongest. So by definition, only the very top students and only the very top medical schools.
   
2. They're that rich and that desperate to leave home.

 

[DokterMom]

2a. TX is brutally hot in the summer!
2b. Southern TX is brutally hot and humid in the summer!

Very true -- and two valid reasons to desperately want to leave home... (but $200,000 better?)

 

[Pusheen]

Only two schools in CA have a preference for IS applicants: UCR and UCD.
CA has relatively few medical school seats for the population.
UCLA alone had 919 applicants last year. Only 870 CA residents matriculated in CA!
We exported 1436 excellent candidates. Compare this to TX that only exported 193!

Yes, I was misinformed at the time that I posted this. Thank you for clearing it up

 

[resiroth]

I gotta disagree with you. Having been accepted to Stanford, Hopkins and ucsf, I know for a fact from ASW that a large majority of students were accepted to all 3. Many people chose ucsf over Hopkins this year. You just sound bitter tbh.


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Never said UCSF wasn't desirable. But desirable =\= as strong as other schools in rigor/academics. I doubt the crossover is that high...Stanford and Hopkins I could see but UCSF is like a standard deviation lower than the other 2. They're also more focused on primary care than Stanford and JHU which are pretty much focused on anything but primary care. The step scores reflect this. My cycle actually went quite well in the end but I wish I spent less time on secondaries at UC schools when I had so much more success out of state.

If you end up getting interview invites to most of the top 20 out of state that you apply to its not unusual to feel bitter you struck out at UCLA/UCSD/UCSF.

FWIW the only UC I would take over my current option is UCLA with Geffen scholarship because the rest are more expensive or have grades etc. So I'm bitter I spent so much time on apps when I wasn't a serious candidate for their mission (something californian schools and californian schools alone seem to actually care about) but not bitter I didn't get in (except UCLA Geffen would have been nice).

There is also that alternative med school ranking which puts UCSF quite far down the list in terms of producing good scientists, despite employing some very impressive people. Not a good sign.

And again, you don't need to tell me people would turn down JHU for UCSF, I didn't even apply to JHU due to not wanting to be in that area.

 

[drjay16]

[...

 

[deleted393595]

2a. TX is brutally hot in the summer!
2b. Southern TX is brutally hot and humid in the summer!

2c. To experience studying abroad in the US

 

[resiroth]

Sounds like you are making up stuff. Ucsf is one SD below Stanford in academics and rigor? Where the hell are you getting this information from!? It's true that ucsf puts more emphasis on primary care, and it might not be as competitive as other specialties but this is in part due to the programs ucsf has that emphasize PC(prime, JM, less formal programs, etc). The UC schools also prescreen so if you got a secondary, you didn't waste money and time. If anything they are saving you time and money. Also those new rankings don't mean anything unless you want to be a scientist more so than a clinician or anything else. Of course ucsf and any other public school will fall on those rankings. again, you sound very bitter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Their MCAT is a standard deviation below, and that matches up with my subjective impression. They also have a much lower "lower end" or lowest decile.

They're clearly looking for something other than stats/smarts. Most applicants on SDN are likely like me (high stats good research). Therefore I would advise people to not apply to too many UCs, as they are very adamant about their mission statements unlike other schools.

I'd also not apply to Georgetown or BU, but I sure as heck am not bitter about being rejected from those. Those schools just get too many applicants for it to be worthwhile.

Only on SDN is advising not applying to a school "bitter". FWIW the school I'll likely be matriculating to is far cheaper than UCSF.

I also think UCSF is a good school for the record, their admissions is just very different than what you'd expect based on their reputation as a research powerhouse. If I were interested in primary care it would be my #1.

 

[drjay16]

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[Long Way to Go]

Their MCAT is a standard deviation below, and that matches up with my subjective impression. They also have a much lower "lower end" or lowest decile.

They're clearly looking for something other than stats/smarts. Most applicants on SDN are likely like me (high stats good research). Therefore I would advise people to not apply to too many UCs, as they are very adamant about their mission statements unlike other schools.

I'd also not apply to Georgetown or BU, but I sure as heck am not bitter about being rejected from those. Those schools just get too many applicants for it to be worthwhile.

Only on SDN is advising not applying to a school "bitter". FWIW the school I'll likely be matriculating to is far cheaper than UCSF.

I also think UCSF is a good school for the record, their admissions is just very different than what you'd expect based on their reputation as a research powerhouse. If I were interested in primary care it would be my #1.

UCSF has an average MCAT of 35. Stanford's is a 37. The MCAT's standard deviation is 6.4.

What the hell are you talking about?

 

[C@lidoc]

Hopkins average MCAT 35.3 (http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/som/admissions/md/students/class_statistics.html)
UCSF average MCAT 35 (http://meded.ucsf.edu/admissions/successful-applicant-profile-class-2018)
Stanford average MCAT was 37 if I remember, but don't remember where I saw that.

@resiroth where are you getting your numbers from?

 

[resiroth]

For some reason I recall UCSF having a median MCAT of more like 34 to Stanford et al. 37. Anyway a lot of people are confusing "good school" to "academic powerhouse". UCSF is an academic powerhouse as an institution, but their selection of medical students is very different than others. That's reflected in their 30 MCAT for the bottom 10%.

And I was rejected by Stanford too, but I'm not bitter about it.

My whole point was that Stanford and UCSF are both powerhouse research institutions, but they look for different things. Again, UCSF is a good school, it's just there's a disconnect between the schools research reputation and what they are looking for in applicants (generally speaking). I don't see how people are offended by this, we need primary care doctors... you sound insecure. UCSF is amazing for primary care, and prides itself on that. Since I was applying to 30 schools I only remembered UCSF's rep as a graduate school and didn't realize their mission for their medical students was different.

And yeah my bad MCAT SD is 6, not 3. It's still significant.

UCSF has some of the lowest step scores and that's because they're disproportionately primary care.

Point is OP should change his residency because as others have pointed out there aren't nearly enough spots for California grads anyway. Other state schools are FAR more predictable and give a much more realistic chance of OP matriculating to a medical school.

Being a california resident is widely known as the worst possible thing you can be for medical school apps. Why should OP not change his residency?

 

[mdeast]

I'm going to somewhat disagree here. First, Cali schools do favor Cali residents. You can look up the stats on this. There are exceptions to this of course (USC and Stanford which are private, UCLA and UCSF which tend to be slightly more OOS friendly). But, at the end of the day, most UC medical schools are ~80% in-state. Some of this is a consequence of higher enrollment once accepted among IS applicants, but, if you look at statistics, most schools will interview a significantly higher % of IS residents than OOS. Every medical school does this to an extent. Even private ones.

I'll also echo what some of the above posts said as well--- UCSF, for example, will often take IS students that really aren't that impressive compared to those enrolled at peer schools (Stanford, Hopkins, Harvard, etc.). This is sort of reflected in their match list, which I don't think is as strong as other peer schools. But, also because of a higher emphasis on primary care specialties which tend to be less competitive.

Now, I don't know the benefits of Ohio residency, but there are definitely benefits to Cali. Also, just knowing so many Cali people I assume you'd rather end up in Cali than Ohio anyway. Geography is important for residency placement (it'll be harder to get a Cali residency spot coming from Ohio than it will from any of the UC schools).

 

[C@lidoc]

For some reason I recall UCSF having a median MCAT of more like 34 to Stanford et al. 37. Anyway a lot of people are confusing "good school" to "academic powerhouse". UCSF is an academic powerhouse as an institution, but their selection of medical students is very different than others. That's reflected in their 30 MCAT for the bottom 10%.

And I was rejected by Stanford too, but I'm not bitter about it.

My whole point was that Stanford and UCSF are both powerhouse research institutions, but they look for different things. Again, UCSF is a good school, it's just there's a disconnect between the schools research reputation and what they are looking for in applicants (generally speaking). I don't see how people are offended by this, we need primary care doctors... you sound insecure. UCSF is amazing for primary care, and prides itself on that. Since I was applying to 30 schools I only remembered UCSF's rep as a graduate school and didn't realize their mission for their medical students was different.

And yeah my bad MCAT SD is 6, not 3. It's still significant.

UCSF has some of the lowest step scores and that's because they're disproportionately primary care.

Point is OP should change his residency because as others have pointed out there aren't nearly enough spots for California grads anyway. Other state schools are FAR more predictable and give a much more realistic chance of OP matriculating to a medical school.

Being a california resident is widely known as the worst possible thing you can be for medical school apps. Why should OP not change his residency?

Doesn't Harvard have an MCAT of 30 or 31 for their bottom 10th percentile? Anyhow, sounds like you really don't know much about UCSF or Stanford. Also I have yet to see an accurate source showing Step 1 averages by schools. Everyone knows US News is not even close to accurate for that. I do agree with you that being a CA resident offers little to no benefit. UCSF doesn't even really give you preference for being IS.

 

[gyngyn]

I'm going to somewhat disagree here. First, Cali schools do favor Cali residents. You can look up the stats on this. There are exceptions to this of course (USC and Stanford which are private, UCLA and UCSF which tend to be slightly more OOS friendly). But, at the end of the day, most UC medical schools are ~80% in-state. Some of this is a consequence of higher enrollment once accepted among IS applicants, but, if you look at statistics, most schools will interview a significantly higher % of IS residents than OOS. Every medical school does this to an extent. Even private ones.

There are only 5 states with a medical school where the chances of IS matriculation are lower than CA (14.7%).
They are:
AZ: 14.6%
RI: 14.3
UT: 13.6
MD: 13.5
WA: 13.2

 

[Lawpy]

There are only 5 states with a medical school where the chances of IS matriculation are lower than CA (14.7%).
They are:
AZ: 14.6%
RI: 14.3
UT: 13.6
MD: 13.5
WA: 13.2

Isn't that due to the insane sheer volume of CA applicants? As opposed to applicants of other states?

 

[gyngyn]

Isn't that due to the insane sheer volume of CA applicants? As opposed to applicants of other states?

Yes, it's both volume and quality.
We export more successful students than any other state (1436 or 24.3%).
Even so, this has the effect of driving up the average IS stats making CA one of the hardest states for an applicant.

 

[Goro]

I believe gyngyn has pointed out that UCLA grads alone could fill every medical school seat in CA.