Going back to take prerequisites after unrelated Bachelors

[Bob Debilder]

So basically I entered a decent/fairly well known University of California as a Biological Sciences major a few years ago. Due to a combination of different things I ended up doing pretty poorly in some of the traditional "pre-med" classes (though I actually did well in Biology), and by the end of second year I transferred out of the major and will soon graduate in a completely unrelated major with a Bachelors.

However, I have not given up the hope of getting into medicine altogether. How would I go about satisfying the prerequisite courses (assume that I have to do it all over again), and is it still do-able, or am I being naive?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[GrapesofRath]

by either 1) retaking the courses on your own for an informal postbacc or DIY; 2) going to a formal postbacc program or; 3) doing an SMP

An SMP probably wont fulfill pre-req requirements if Im not mistaken(and I could be). You arent taking classes like physics and ochem in an SMP. Maybe perhaps you could fulfill a requirement like biochem in an SMP(although Im not sure if it would count) but I dont know how you would fulfill other pre-req classes in an SMP. SMPs are traditionally for those who have taken the pre-reqs and want to enhance their credentials more becuase their GPA isnt up to par.

Regardless, given how difficult SMPs are, I personally would only consider one after a) Completing all the pre-reqs b) Taking the MCAT because the only real purpose in doing an MD SMP is if you have an MD caliber MCAT score and you need to take pre-reqs to take the MCAT.

 

[Bob Debilder]

@gonnif

So I would have to find a postbacc program? I am not very knowledgeable about those, I did research them a short while back and it seemed many of them were dedicated to people who were disadvantaged/underserved so I wasn't sure if I would be able to get in one; and some of them also seemed to be for people that had done the basic prerequisites but wanted to take some more advanced courses.

Also, what is an SMP? (Again, sorry, but on some of these matters I don't have a lot of knowledge).

 

[Bob Debilder]

@GrapesofRath

So to "retake" the prerequisites (I add quotes because I never even got around to trying some of them), what exactly is the process? Do you apply to a college and just begin taking those classes "a la carte" without pursuing any degree (if so, how does that work, and what are the chances of getting in)? Do Community Colleges work? Or are there postbacc programs for people like me that messed up in undergrad and need to take the whole premed set of coursework over again?

After the way my undergrad experience went I'm kind of lost at sea about the med school process and life plans in general so I am sorry for all the questions.

 

[GrapesofRath]

@GrapesofRath

So to "retake" the prerequisites (I add quotes because I never even got around to trying some of them), what exactly is the process?

Do you apply to a college and just begin taking those classes "a la carte" without pursuing any degree (if so, how does that work, and what are the chances of getting in)?

Do Community Colleges work?

Or are there postbacc programs for people like me that messed up in undergrad and need to take the whole premed set of coursework over again?

After the way my undergrad experience went I'm kind of lost at sea about the med school process and life plans in general so I am sorry for all the questions.

Yes taking them "a la carte" without pursuing a degree works at a college. IF your GPA is low it might be a good idea to also take some other upper level sciecne courses related to the field of medicine(ie immunology, microbio, etc) to show you are academically capable and ease doubts anybody might have.

You can take it at a community college. Generally I would say the college route over the CC is preferred. If you have no science background, it might not be a bad idea to start taking one or two of the pre-reqs at a CC before moving to a 4 year university. What I would not do is take all the pre-reqs at a CC, particularly if your college GPA wasnt great.

There are post-bacc programs that are formally structured as well as you can look into. The top ones, ie the ones with the big "linkage" statistics people crave tend to be very competitive and hard to get into(average matriculant will have a 3.7+ GPA 1450 type SAT score etc).

An SMP becomes something to consider if after taking all these pre-reqs and other science courses your GPA still isnt where you want it to be.

 

[GrapesofRath]

there is no standard for SMP so many "typical" postbaccs are done at a graduate level but provide regular classes with linkages and call it an SMP.

Well is the standard to be considered an SMP to at least grant masters degrees? Many post-baccs dont grant masters degrees so that might be one way of differentiating.

Really, the way to "enhance" your academic credentials for medical school if you are getting a masters degree is through an SMP or post-bacc work; other masters degrees tend not to enhance academic credentials.

 

[Bob Debilder]

@GrapesofRath

You mentioned GPA a couple of times, honestly, in the context of med school applications I don't know if my GPA will ever be where I want it to be. My Undergrad experience (especially with bad grades in premed/maths and sciences courses) was quite bruising to my GPA.

So for a case like mine, will my past weigh me down? Or will admissions departments be more interested in what I did when I went back to school and took the prerequisites? For example, say I go back and do well, will the admissions people be more concerned with that and judge me off of that; or will they condemn me based on my failures as a 17 year old in my very first brush with college level sciences?

And in such a situation where the past is far from glorious, does that kill my chances (and should I forget about it) or will I be fine as long as I go back and perform well the second time around?

 

[eteshoe]

OP. Just so you know SMP=special masters program.

Some med schools like redemption stories. So your chances are not completely shot at getting in

 

[GrapesofRath]

@GrapesofRath

You mentioned GPA a couple of times, honestly, in the context of med school applications I don't know if my GPA will ever be where I want it to be. My Undergrad experience (especially with bad grades in premed/maths and sciences courses) was quite bruising to my GPA.

So for a case like mine, will my past weigh me down? Or will admissions departments be more interested in what I did when I went back to school and took the prerequisites? For example, say I go back and do well, will the admissions people be more concerned with that and judge me off of that; or will they condemn me based on my failures as a 17 year old in my very first brush with college level sciences?

And in such a situation where the past is far from glorious, does that kill my chances (and should I forget about it) or will I be fine as long as I go back and perform well the second time around?

This is a very vague and general question that nobody is really going to be able to provide you with the exact type of answer you might be looking for.

Yes, a poor GPA in UG will still affect you even if you do well in your pre-req courses. Grade trends are also considered. sGPA are calculated separately from cGPA and are given at least as much weight as the cGPA if not more in some cases. There are many factors at play.

The best path going forward is to
a) note the average MD matriculant has a 3.69+/-0.25 cGPA and for sGPA 3.63+/-0.32.
b) Take some courses. Calculate what your sGPA and cGPA can come out to after taking pre-reqs. Calculate what they will be if you take soem more upper level bio courses.
c) Realize DO schools will do grade replacement. This is a way of boosting your GPA fast. For DO schools 3.5 is is the average cGPA and 3.4 is the average sGPA that includes grade replacement.
d) Take the MCAT after you are done with all these courses. From there, see where you stand and go from there. There are too many variables at play and this is getting way too far ahead to really say much more. But yes, there are certainly people who dont have great UG GPAs who come back to do pre-reqs, do very well in them, do well on the MCAT and are successful in medical school admissions.
e) Note a number of medical schools have a unofficial 3.0 cut off point to be considered. If your GPA is that far away from being a 3.0, then perhaps grade replacement and the DO route should be more of a focus.

 

[Bob Debilder]

OP. Just so you know SMP=special masters program.

Some med schools like redemption stories. So your chances are not completely shot at getting in

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[thatwouldbeanarchy]

So basically I entered a decent/fairly well known University of California as a Biological Sciences major a few years ago. Due to a combination of different things I ended up doing pretty poorly in some of the traditional "pre-med" classes (though I actually did well in Biology), and by the end of second year I transferred out of the major and will soon graduate in a completely unrelated major with a Bachelors.

However, I have not given up the hope of getting into medicine altogether. How would I go about satisfying the prerequisite courses (assume that I have to do it all over again), and is it still do-able, or am I being naive?

I graduated without having taken a SINGLE science course. I ended up doing a "DIY" postbacc, meaning that I simply enrolled as a non-degree student at a 4-year university in my area that had a continuing studies program (night classes so I could work during the day). Depending on the school, some give registration priority to degree-seeking students first. But you don't necessarily have to take all of the prereqs at one institution. It may not be the best idea to jump around TOO much but I think you can get away with taking a few classes here or there at different schools, if you need to. I took all except 2 of my classes at the same school and it hasn't raised any issues for me.

As others have said, DO grade replacement could be the fastest way to boost your GPA. But that doesn't mean that MD is entirely out of the question. I believe there's a low GPA forum on here somewhere and you'll see a lot of successful reinvention stories!

 

[Bob Debilder]

This is a very vague and general question that nobody is really going to be able to provide you with the exact type of answer you might be looking for.

Yes, a poor GPA in UG will still affect you even if you do well in your pre-req courses. Grade trends are also considered. sGPA are calculated separately from cGPA and are given at least as much weight as the cGPA if not more in some cases. There are many factors at play.

The best path going forward is to
a) note the average MD matriculant has a 3.69+/-0.25 cGPA and for sGPA 3.63+/-0.32.
b) Take some courses. Calculate what your sGPA and cGPA can come out to after taking pre-reqs. Calculate what they will be if you take soem more upper level bio courses.
c) Realize DO schools will do grade replacement. This is a way of boosting your GPA fast. For DO schools 3.5 is is the average cGPA and 3.4 is the average sGPA that includes grade replacement.
d) Take the MCAT after you are done with all these courses. From there, see where you stand and go from there. There are too many variables at play and this is getting way too far ahead to really say much more. But yes, there are certainly people who dont have great UG GPAs who come back to do pre-reqs, do very well in them, do well on the MCAT and are successful in medical school admissions.
e) Note a number of medical schools have a unofficial 3.0 cut off point to be considered. If your GPA is that far away from being a 3.0, then perhaps grade replacement and the DO route should be more of a focus.

Thanks, I understand this is all a bit vague but it's all highly educational and helpful for me. As for the 3.0 cutoff, I honestly don't know what my science gpa would be, looking back, but if you meant overall Undergrad GPA, then I'm fine, I'm safely above the 3.0 so that's not an issue. If you mean a 3.0 cutoff for science classes though (old screwups included) then I am not too sure.

Part of what I'm trying to figure out from all of this isn't just how I would go about this process, but also trying to ascertain whether it is realistic to attempt it. Because if as you say, old GPA's are still capable of weighing me down significantly (if only I could get a damn blank slate), then I don't know if I can afford to spend two more years of tuition at a good school + MCAT prep only to be rejected anyways because I screwed up once upon a time as a 17/18 year old; that would leave me in an impossible position.

And just as a sidenote I'd like to thank all of you who have so far responded. I really appreciate it.

 

[Bob Debilder]

I graduated without having taken a SINGLE science course. I ended up doing a "DIY" postbacc, meaning that I simply enrolled as a non-degree student at a 4-year university in my area that had a continuing studies program (night classes so I could work during the day). Depending on the school, some give registration priority to degree-seeking students first. But you don't necessarily have to take all of the prereqs at one institution. It may not be the best idea to jump around TOO much but I think you can get away with taking a few classes here or there at different schools, if you need to. I took all except 2 of my classes at the same school and it hasn't raised any issues for me.

As others have said, DO grade replacement could be the fastest way to boost your GPA. But that doesn't mean that MD is entirely out of the question. I believe there's a low GPA forum on here somewhere and you'll see a lot of successful reinvention stories!

I see, one thing is that you were probably lucky not to take any science courses. As compared to taking multiple math/science courses and ruining your GPA the first time around like me, and being left with a massive cross to bear.

Also by DO grade replacement do you guys mean "retakes" that I did in my first stint as a pre-med, or does it mean that a DO school would replace my initial undergrad science grades with the grades from a second stint at a college taking the prerequisites.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Thanks, I understand this is all a bit vague but it's all highly educational and helpful for me. As for the 3.0 cutoff, I honestly don't know what my science gpa would be, looking back, but if you meant overall Undergrad GPA, then I'm fine, I'm safely above the 3.0 so that's not an issue. If you mean a 3.0 cutoff for science classes though (old screwups included) then I am not too sure.

Part of what I'm trying to figure out from all of this isn't just how I would go about this process, but also trying to ascertain whether it is realistic to attempt it. Because if as you say, old GPA's are still capable of weighing me down significantly (if only I could get a damn blank slate), then I don't know if I can afford to spend two more years of tuition at a good school + MCAT prep only to be rejected anyways because I screwed up once upon a time as a 17/18 year old; that would leave me in an impossible position.

And just as a sidenote I'd like to thank all of you who have so far responded. I really appreciate it.

This would be alot easier if you just say what your undergrad GPA is.

 

[thatwouldbeanarchy]

I see, one thing is that you were probably lucky not to take any science courses. As compared to taking multiple math/science courses and ruining your GPA the first time around like me, and being left with a massive cross to bear.

Also by DO grade replacement do you guys mean "retakes" that I did in my first stint as a pre-med, or does it mean that a DO school would replace my initial undergrad science grades with the grades from a second stint at a college taking the prerequisites.

You're absolutely right. It took me a long time but I didn't have the added struggle of doing GPA repair, which is for sure not easy.

DO grade replacements = retakes. So if you took Chem I years ago and got a C+, you could take an equivalent Chem I course again and DO schools would replace your first grade with the second. A great deal, if you know you can do better! MD schools, on the other hand, will include every course you've taken in your GPA.

 

[Bob Debilder]

You're absolutely right. It took me a long time but I didn't have the added struggle of doing GPA repair, which is for sure not easy.

DO grade replacements = retakes. So if you took Chem I years ago and got a C+, you could take an equivalent Chem I course again and DO schools would replace your first grade with the second. A great deal, if you know you can do better! MD schools, on the other hand, will include every course you've taken in your GPA.

Oh wow that's excellent, so essentially is that a blank slate as long as you can perform well the second time around? Here's a twisted question though, what if years ago a person took a class, Chem I for example, retook it and still didn't do that great the second time within that same period of time (i.e. Undergrad years)? Does that use up the DO's retakes? Or do DO schools exclusively look at the latest performances, regardless of how bad you messed up your first Undergrad stint?

 

[Promethean]

You can't use up DO retakes. All that matters is that you eventually demonstrate consistent academic performance.

My very first undergrad stint resulted in a 1.37 GPA. I was homeless during that time. I took a few classes here and there until I finally enrolled in an RN diploma program and pulled a 3.8. I then did all my prereqs at a community college (4.0) and finally wrapped up a BS in Business Admin, HR Management via WGU (an online, pass/fail school.) That has to be just about the most circuitous route to getting into med school possible, but it worked, and it was cheap.

Ultimately, strong academic performance and a great MCAT score combined with more stories to tell than your average traditional student overcame an abysmal start to my academic career.