Got a game plan...any suggestions?

[mehc012]

Brief bio: graduated in 2012 as a chem major/microbio minor from a great school with a meh GPA: ~3.2 After graduation, I decided to go for med. It's been a year since I made that decision, and I think I have a solid plan in mind moving forward, but I would love any advice you guys have for me!

Game Plan:
DIY postbacc: I've worked my way up to a 3.3 in the past 6mo. If I keep up the straight A's , I could realistically approach (but not break) a 3.4 in the next year.
Volunteering: I've gotten about 150hrs of great, direct patient contact (as in, me performing a screening test on patients) this past 6mo. That will have to slow now that I'm employed, but I should have 200-300hrs by Jun 2015...and more importantly, I will be able to talk about it, because it is AWESOME!
Scribing: I'm about to start a FT scribe position. If I do this, will I be able to skip the more traditional shadowing, or do I still need to look into some non-ED shadowing? I was thinking of doing the UC Davis premed surgical internship program (if I can get in), which would have the added bonus of giving my LOR writers an early deadline!
Research: I have ~3yrs since my senior year of HS, along with a senior thesis in college. No pubs, though. I'm now working PT for a biomedical instrument company, doing some quality control (sort of, but the details aren't important). This will probably end soon.
And of course...the MCAT: I am really excited for this part! Standardized tests are my forte, and I actually enjoy testing. I'm not used to studying, though, so hopefully I can pull this off well and offset my gpa a little bit.

Timeline: Finish my last prereq this fall, then cut back to 1 class, maybe just a lab and study hardcore for the MCAT. Take it early in 2014 (before the changes), allowing time for a retake if needed. Apply for the surgical program shortly afterwards, reapplying each session until I get in. Keep it up for a year or so, then apply Jun 2015!

Questions:
1. Now that I've pushed past the 3.3 and established that I am capable of carrying out a heavy science courseload (which I did a few times in uG as well, I just had a few semesters where life interfered, I lost focus, and flopped...and I didn't care, because I wasn't aiming for med!), how important is it to keep building my postbacc GPA? I am confident that I can maintain a 4.0, but the classes occupy a large chunk of my schedule, and also cost a fair bit of change. Making it to the 3.4 will require sacrificing other portions of my app (I know the surgical program isn't a necessity, but I am really interested in surgery and will probably pursue it anyway) and I'm not sure the benefit is that big. I've looked at the GPA/acceptance stats, and I'm not sure the difference between a 3.3/3.4 is worth it.
2. I don't have a humanities LOR. Like, at all. I can't even think of anyone I could ask for one, and I don't want to take an introductory English course again just to get a cruddy one. Would an MD letter from the scribing suffice as a substitute? Are they hard-line absolutely required at a lot of MD schools? Alternatively, many of my ugrad classes, even the science ones, were hugely writing intensive - aka a 10 page paper every other week discussing 10-12 primary sources. Would a ref from one of those classes work?
3. I don't know if I have an IA from freshman year. I will eventually ask the deans, but since it's not something I can change, I haven't bothered yet. If I do, it will either be a minor alcohol offense or something kind of vague (I had to leave for mental health reasons briefly, but I don't believe they are able to discuss that?)
4. My school doesn't give graduation credits for APs, but they are listed on the transcript for placement...I don't have to re-take Calc or Gen Chem, do I?
5. What am I missing? What am I overestimating? Does anyone wanna write my PS for me, I hate that kind of introspective, touchy-feely BS!

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[NuttyEngDude]

Game Plan:
And of course...the MCAT: I am really excited for this part! Standardized tests are my forte, and I actually enjoy testing. I'm not used to studying, though, so hopefully I can pull this off well and offset my gpa a little bit.

the mcat tripped me up a bit, make sure it doesnt do that to you.

Questions:
1. Now that I've pushed past the 3.3 and established that I am capable of carrying out a heavy science courseload (which I did a few times in uG as well, I just had a few semesters where life interfered, I lost focus, and flopped...and I didn't care, because I wasn't aiming for med!), how important is it to keep building my postbacc GPA? I am confident that I can maintain a 4.0, but the classes occupy a large chunk of my schedule, and also cost a fair bit of change. Making it to the 3.4 will require sacrificing other portions of my app (I know the surgical program isn't a necessity, but I am really interested in surgery and will probably pursue it anyway) and I'm not sure the benefit is that big. I've looked at the GPA/acceptance stats, and I'm not sure the difference between a 3.3/3.4 is worth it.

Tough call, probably depends on how many hours is in your post-bacc, an adcom can comment better on this. I err on the side of numbers which is why i'm *still* taking classes despite more than 90 post-bacc hours. since you say you graduated in 2012, i'm going to guess that you should keep taking classes.

2. I don't have a humanities LOR. Like, at all. I can't even think of anyone I could ask for one, and I don't want to take an introductory English course again just to get a cruddy one. Would an MD letter from the scribing suffice as a substitute? Are they hard-line absolutely required at a lot of MD schools? Alternatively, many of my ugrad classes, even the science ones, were hugely writing intensive - aka a 10 page paper every other week discussing 10-12 primary sources. Would a ref from one of those classes work?

I'm running into problems with this. get one, even if it's a cruddy one (so long as it's not bad). you never know it might be good, some of my LOR writers have really surprised me.

3. I don't know if I have an IA from freshman year. I will eventually ask the deans, but since it's not something I can change, I haven't bothered yet. If I do, it will either be a minor alcohol offense or something kind of vague (I had to leave for mental health reasons briefly, but I don't believe they are able to discuss that?)

find out from the deans and if needed, be prepared, then forget about it until you prepare for interviews.

4. My school doesn't give graduation credits for APs, but they are listed on the transcript for placement...I don't have to re-take Calc or Gen Chem, do I?

some schools want a year of chem whether it's gen chem 1 or advanced. some are fine with AP (i think), check with your schools. The explanation is that if you AP out of some class, you should continue to take the next level in the subject. Again, it depends on the school. some schools don't even want calc or would be happy with statistics some dont even care altogether.

5. What am I missing? What am I overestimating? Does anyone wanna write my PS for me, I hate that kind of introspective, touchy-feely BS!

plan seems pretty solid.

 

[mehc012]

the mcat tripped me up a bit, make sure it doesnt do that to you.


Tough call, probably depends on how many hours is in your post-bacc, an adcom can comment better on this. I err on the side of numbers which is why i'm *still* taking classes despite more than 90 post-bacc hours. since you say you graduated in 2012, i'm going to guess that you should keep taking classes.

Yeah, I was afraid that'd be the answer

I'm running into problems with this. get one, even if it's a cruddy one (so long as it's not bad). you never know it might be good, some of my LOR writers have really surprised me.

I literally do not know any profs I could get even a cruddy letter from. I haven't taken a non-science course in...oh, 3yrs now, unless you count non-BCPM sciences (I did an awesome geo tutorial, and a fair amt of CS). Ah, well, I'll find something.

find out from the deans and if needed, be prepared, then forget about it until you prepare for interviews.

Haha, yup. I plan to go in and talk to them in person the next time I'm on campus. I suppose I could just text him, but I have a lot of concerns about their ability to maintain confidentiality (from seeing other students' problems) that I think would be better addressed in person rather than via SMS.

some schools want a year of chem whether it's gen chem 1 or advanced. some are fine with AP (i think), check with your schools. The explanation is that if you AP out of some class, you should continue to take the next level in the subject. Again, it depends on the school. some schools don't even want calc or would be happy with statistics some dont even care altogether.

Right...my problem is that I was a chemistry major, so while I definitely kept taking chem, it was mostly upper-level organics, which are an entire separate prereq section...and only one upper-level pchem course, which I bombed (C+) for various reasons. I did take a combined "2-yrs of gen chem in 1" course...but that only counts as double credits for my major; it doesn't count double for graduation credits, which is what shows on the transcript. Maybe I can convince them that 'physical organic chemistry' counts as chem instead of orgo I also worry about how it'd look if my comeback postbacc had me taking 100-level courses in my freaking major, you know?

plan seems pretty solid.

Thanks for that...and thanks for taking the time to read through, it's really helpful to get some feedback, if only to know that I'm not going crazy over here!

 

[NuttyEngDude]

Yeah, I was afraid that'd be the answer


I literally do not know any profs I could get even a cruddy letter from. I haven't taken a non-science course in...oh, 3yrs now, unless you count non-BCPM sciences (I did an awesome geo tutorial, and a fair amt of CS). Ah, well, I'll find something.

this will work. the schools giving me grief are happy with non-bcpm letters. and i thought i was being slick wiht my post-bacc i would still try to get a humanities letter though just to have it but maybe you dont need it.

Haha, yup. I plan to go in and talk to them in person the next time I'm on campus. I suppose I could just text him, but I have a lot of concerns about their ability to maintain confidentiality (from seeing other students' problems) that I think would be better addressed in person rather than via SMS.

honestly it sounds like not a big deal at all just a little bit of footwork on your part to tie up a loose end.

Right...my problem is that I was a chemistry major, so while I definitely kept taking chem, it was mostly upper-level organics, which are an entire separate prereq section...and only one upper-level pchem course, which I bombed (C+) for various reasons. I did take a combined "2-yrs of gen chem in 1" course...but that only counts as double credits for my major; it doesn't count double for graduation credits, which is what shows on the transcript. Maybe I can convince them that 'physical organic chemistry' counts as chem instead of orgo I also worry about how it'd look if my comeback postbacc had me taking 100-level courses in my freaking major, you know?

i'm going to go out on a limb here and say as a chem major you are ok (missed that when i read the first message). usually how they check this is by asking you to list out some class codes, if you have enough to fill it out then you are fine.

Thanks for that...and thanks for taking the time to read through, it's really helpful to get some feedback, if only to know that I'm not going crazy over here!

welcome. maybe others will have some insights

 

[mehc012]

honestly it sounds like not a big deal at all just a little bit of footwork on your part to tie up a loose end.

Yeah, I don't imagine I'll have much officially. But my school is tiny, and as I said, I KNOW they are not as good as they ought to be on confidentiality. Some of the deans are nosy gossips, to put it bluntly, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if they dropped info on my personal/medical life that they are not supposed to, if a call ever came in or a letter was requested. Hell, at some point one of the deans ended up divulging really sensitive information about another student (someone I knew) to me in an effort to get me to open up a bit, and they've been known to contact families about issues that they are not actually permitted to discuss with anyone but the student involved...so who knows what they'd start rambling about if they were asked to explain an IA or something. On the plus side, they're very serious about supporting their alumni and helping people into their careers, so anything like that would be purely accidental/incidental...but I'd rather avoid the whole issue. Fingers crossed for no IA

welcome. maybe others will have some insights

Hopefully!!

 

[brownbaglunch]

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[DoctorDermis]

Your plan is pretty solid overall - sounds like you are aware of your weak areas and working to address them.

The dreaded bottlenecks of medical school application - GPA and MCAT.
Continue to Work at that GPA - do you know your specific Science GPA vs your Cumulative GPA?
Did you get an MSAR book to check admission req's at the schools you want to apply to?
Aside from reviewing study materials for the MCAT - be sure to do tons and tons of practice questions and learn from the explanations of what you missed.

Letters of recc:
- A common error many people make is that they don't help guide their letter writers in writing the recommendation. Letter writers are human, and they may not be able to recall important favorable details regarding your persona / performance / achievements. Be professional in everything you do regarding your career. Consider possibly creating a letter of recc request packet that includes a Picture of you / personalized thank you note / info about your experiences / personal statement / CV or Resume / positive attributes that apply to work as a physician / etc.

- Humanities LoR? Unless you were the best student ever or made a major accomplishment such as publishing a book or winning some national poetry award, I am not sure how much potential value-add this has in assessing your fitness in medical school. In fact, I know for certain there are med schools that want science-related LoRs with no mention of humanities.
http://med.emory.edu/education/admissions/md/how_to_apply/application_requirements.html

best wishes on your journey

 

[mehc012]

I think that the key to grade rehabilitation is to be able to show you can handle the rigors of medical school. Nailing the MCAT can help. I have heard that earning A's in additional upper level bio classes helps too. I am a huge fan of taking three months off to study for the MCAT.

Haha, yeah my current postbacc is nothing but upper level bios, because they don't offer upper level chems and I've already taken all of the basic science intros (and a lot of upper level bios as well). I just finished an 8-wk summer session with 3 upper level bios, which was...a bit more intense than I had intended, but I finished with 2 As and a dramatic A+, which felt good.

I'm glad you really enjoy your volunteer time. I think many pre-meds just volunteer because it's a requirement. My volunteer time keeps me motivated more than anything else.

oh man, my volunteer position is SO SWEET!! I literally get to play with newborn (1day or less) babies all day long, work with the doctors/nurses on the unit, update the discharge board, etc. It is wonderful!

I would try to set up shadowing anyway. It's really fun, and not much of a time commitment.

Ugh, cold-calling just seems so wrong to me. If I were a doctor (when I am) I would find the notion a bit...odd.

The difference between a 3.3 and 3.4 is huge for schools that have a 3.4 cutoff. It's also exactly 1 LizzyM point, FWIW. Do you have an idea where you want to go? MD programs count every credit you take equally. DO programs drop the older grade on retakes, so you can easily do some serious grade rehabilitation by retaking classes you didn't earn an A in the first time around if DO is your thing.

I am not interested in DO at this time. Before everyone starts all the hooplah, yes, I understand what DO is, what the differences are (it's all in uneducated perception, admissions reqs, some slight differences in residency/fellowship options, and their supposed 'holistic' BS, which is really just an excuse to keep a different name). I get it, I don't knock it, I just don't want it for various reasons.
And no, I wouldn't just stop at a 3.3...I just wouldn't push 100% for that 3.4, as that would require F/T student-ing, which would make it hard to juggle MCAT prep, ECs, and the scribing. If I take it a bit easier, the GPA will probably settle out around 3.37

Since you have two semesters left before you apply, are you interested in any arts? Music, sculpture, creative writing, anything? I think that beyond the humanities letter, it's probably a good thing to show that you have interests beyond math and science. Imagine your life depended on having a cultural hobby. What would it be? Take some classes in it, and maybe it all works out.

Welll....I haven't played the cello since freshman year of college, but I used to be quite good. I've taken tons of psych classes, but I don't really count those as much either way. I am good enough in spanish to communicate in the hospital, but plan to travel the summer before I start med school to regain the fluency I had in HS. I helped run a varsity-esque* club sport during college, handled a LOT of organizational/group travel responsibility, and we made it to Nationals my junior and senior year. I participated in a few different music clubs throughout college (lol, I actually did handbells for a year), designed the logo for our student chem organization AND designed multiple jersey options for my sports team before we voted on one of them for the final version. Plus other various things here and there. I definitely have a lot more than just math/science going for me, but it's the less quantifiable stuff and anyway, it would be meaningless if I did any of it just for the med school app. These things look good because they represent what I am passionate about and what I spend my time doing...they would look hollow if I were just going through the motions, and so I didn't include them here because I can't really get 'advice' on those sort of intangible things.
*note: I only say varsity-esque in terms of time commitment...2hr/day + gym&track wkouts + every other weekend travelling for an 8-9 game tournament

A few schools allow AP for pre-reqs, but most don't. As was mentioned above, you generally have to take the next class in the series. As a chem major, I wouldn't worry about chem requirements. If you tested out of calc, you may have to take differential equations. That sounds just painful enough that I would start to figure out now which schools wouldn't make you do that, and plan on applying there =) That's just me though. I finished my calculus in 2003, thank god. I would be in trouble taking it today - my last trig class was in 1991.

Yyyeah, if math comes up I would definitely retake Calc cuz I've lost it all. Also, I'd probably take a stats course, especially since clinical research seems to be a big thing in med school. Stats is the one area where I feel like I am really lacking, and it's the one area I've seen people still use in their actual careers (unlike calc for most people).

I think your plan sounds pretty solid. If you run into difficulty, adjust it. Don't ruin your shot if things start to come off the rails.

Yeah, we'll see how good I am at juggling...the scribing is about to ramp up to F/T (and it's an hour away), I'm still P/T here, and I want to take at least 2 classes this semester HOWever, my biggest weakness in UG was my lack of time management and focus, rather than a lack of knowledge or learning ability...I kind of want to demonstrate that I can keep up a breakneck pace. As long as I pull it off, I think it'll help...and now that I want something, I WILL pull it off, no question.

 

[DoctorDermis]

If no current interest in DO programs (and I also assume foreign MD programs as well), then I presume that you would like to keep your options more open and increase the opportunities to pursue specialties such as ortho / rad onc / derm / urology / ENT / etc ?

If so, then I totally understand because that was the main reason I desired to attend an american MD program vs a DO or Foreign MD program.

 

[mehc012]

If no current interest in DO programs (and I also assume foreign MD programs as well), then I presume that you would like to keep your options more open and increase the opportunities to pursue specialties such as ortho / rad onc / derm / urology / ENT / etc ?

If so, then I totally understand because that was the main reason I desired to attend an american MD program vs a DO or Foreign MD program.

Yup! I see no reason to pursue the option with even slightly diminished future flexibility and convenience without giving my preferred route a shot or two first!

 

[mehc012]

I just wanted to come back here briefly and thank everyone for their advice. I came into this process behind the premed 8 ball with a low GPA and no clinical experience. Thanks to the general advice on SDN and the specific advice in this thread (and a few others like it) I have been able to put together a decent application. I don't know how this cycle will turn out in the long run, but I've got a few interviews under my belt and am waiting anxiously for October 15! Thank you guys so much for being willing to read through and advise people like me; I've come a long way in the past 3yrs and I attribute a large portion of that to the fabulous efforts of SDNers!