Got Caught Cheating on Exam, Is my pre-med career over?

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This is anecdotal, but I have a friend who let another student copy his homework. They both got caught and ended up with IAs for academic dishonesty. He's actually doing extremely well this application cycle - over a dozen interviews. His GPA and MCAT are on the low side (especially for an ORM), but he has multiple publications and his research record is stellar. So it's possible to get a lot of interviews with an IA for cheating.

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Hello all,

Let me preface this by saying I am a pre-med (currently a junior) at a large public institution

As I type this message I cannot express how distraught and stupid I feel. For the first time in my life I cheated on an exam given in my organic chemistry class, and my teacher sent me an email saying that she has proof that I cheated on my exam by copying the answer to a synthesis problem.

I have not met with the office of academic integrity at my school yet, but I have decided that instead of trying to deny these allegations I will admit the truth. Ever since the start of finals, I was mentally occupied by my parents' impending divorce and slacked off of studying as I was depressed for hours on end. With that being said, I will not use this as an excuse, and will own up to my actions.

Are my chances for medical school done? Otherwise I am a decent applicant, I have done research and internships, and I am a smart kid that does not cheat (I made a 2200 on my SAT). However I made the stupid and irreversible mistake of cheating on my exam, and now I must pay the price. If I made mostly As from now on (I currently have a 3.6 gpa) and get a high score on the MCAT, will medical schools accept me if I take a gap year? I know it is especially damning since I am a junior, but do I have hope? How do I remedy this blemish on my record?

Any advice is welcome. I am typing this with tears on my face as I feel my dreams of becoming a doctor are truly over.


I sit on the Honor Council at my school, for us it's student run. There's a few things you can do...first try every possibility to make this NOT hit your official letter (meaning, don't let it become a footnote on your transcript). Also, reach out to your Ombudsman BEFORE the office of academic integrity. If I were you, I would not admit I'm guilty. Lastly, try to get your Organic lab TA or someone else associated with that class in a mentoring role to talk about your general trustworthiness at your trial.

I feel shady giving you these tips, but if you really did do this 1 time, I'd hate for it to affect you and not let you go to Medical School. It was a horrible decision. You should never cheat. Getting an F is a better sentence than an academic integrity violation.
 
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The fact that the professor emailed you instead of just reporting the cheating"behind your back" means that maybe she's willing to talk.

I would ask for an F not only for the exam but for the entire class, be extremely apologetic, say that you will retake the whole course, etc.


This is the best advice. Sort it out with the professor before this becomes a hearing.
 
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This is anecdotal, but I have a friend who let another student copy his homework. They both got caught and ended up with IAs for academic dishonesty. He's actually doing extremely well this application cycle - over a dozen interviews. His GPA and MCAT are on the low side (especially for an ORM), but he has multiple publications and his research record is stellar. So it's possible to get a lot of interviews with an IA for cheating.

Please post back when he's accepted.
 
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I sit on the Honor Council at my school, for us it's student run. There's a few things you can do...first try every possibility to make this NOT hit your official letter (meaning, don't let it become a footnote on your transcript). Also, reach out to your Ombudsman BEFORE the office of academic integrity. If I were you, I would not admit I'm guilty. Lastly, try to get your Organic lab TA or someone else associated with that class in a mentoring role to talk about your general trustworthiness at your trial.

I feel shady giving you these tips, but if you really did do this 1 time, I'd hate for it to affect you and not let you go to Medical School. It was a horrible decision. You should never cheat. Getting an F is a better sentence than an academic integrity violation.

You sit on the Honor Council and you're advising him to lie about his actions, compounding the dishonesty and discrediting his professor?

Does not compute...
 
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You sit on the Honor Council and you're advising him to lie about his actions, compounding the dishonesty and discrediting his professor?

Does not compute...

Man, try sitting on an honor council and then say that (also not trying to be combative at all lol). I've had 4 cases with students who had 120 credits, were about to put their foot out the door, and were caught cheating ONCE. Everyone makes mistakes! You should repent, and be given another chance. Those 4 students, expelled, with no credit transfer, and 2 years of not being able to attend any school in our state.

They were left with nothing. Their lives were at a standstill. It makes you think differently.

My advice to everyone in general will always be TO NEVER CHEAT. It's NOT WORTH IT. Cheating screws you over like no other. But, for the one-time offenders, it's hard for me to watch one mistake marr their entire lives.
 
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Man, try sitting on an honor council and then say that (also not trying to be combative at all lol). I've had 4 cases with students who had 120 credits, were about to put their foot out the door, and were caught cheating ONCE. Everyone makes mistakes! You should repent, and be given another chance. Those 4 students, expelled, with no credit transfer, and 2 years of not being able to attend any school in our state.

They were left with nothing. Their lives were at a standstill. It makes you think differently.

My advice to everyone in general will always be TO NEVER CHEAT. It's NOT WORTH IT. Cheating screws you over like no other. But, for the one-time offenders, it's hard for me to watch one mistake marr their entire lives.
That's their own fault for cheating when they knew they were that close to graduating. No reasonably intelligent and ethical person makes that kind of mistake.
 
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That's their own fault for cheating when they knew they were that close to graduating. No reasonably intelligent and ethical person makes that kind of mistake.

Sure, it's easy for you and me to say that since we've never been in a situation like that. I just empathize with them. It's one thing reading about someone's experiences on some forum. And it's another to see someone's entire life unraveling before you.

I'd hope that we, as aspiring physicians, would be able to have more empathy than that. What are we going to do tomorrow? Berate and humiliate the 300-lb patient sitting before us, how about the one who smoked himself to lung cancer, or any other patient that takes part in activities detrimental to their health? And these people have erred time and again.

Everyone deserves a second chance, OP, I hope you have one as well. You made a horrible judgement call, but I hope you understand the seriousness of your decisions, and have a chance to improve yourself.
 
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Don't cheat people! Just use mnemonics, they're totally OK, and not cheating.
 
Sure, it's easy for you and me to say that since we've never been in a situation like that. I just empathize with them. It's one thing reading about someone's experiences on some forum. And it's another to see someone's entire life unraveling before you.

I'd hope that we, as aspiring physicians, would be able to have more empathy than that. What are we going to do tomorrow? Berate and humiliate the 300-lb patient sitting before us, how about the one who smoked himself to lung cancer, or any other patient that takes part in activities detrimental to their health? And these people have erred time and again.

Everyone deserves a second chance, OP, I hope you have one as well. You made a horrible judgement call, but I hope you understand the seriousness of your decisions, and have a chance to improve yourself.
I can empathize with the naive college freshman who maybe accidentally plagiarizes because they didn't cite properly or was unlucky enough to get caught with old exams that were given to them by their older friends in fraternities/sororities. But as a college senior who is about to graduate and go onto bigger, better things, you are held to a much higher standard. I used to have a bleeding heart type empathy until I realized that some people truly deserve neither your forgiveness nor your lack of judgment for their selfish actions. A physician's duty is to treat the patient in front of them regardless of their social and personal history. However, that does not mean the patients are free from judgment for their actions.
 
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I can empathize with the naive college freshman who maybe accidentally plagiarizes because they didn't cite properly or was unlucky enough to get caught with old exams that were given to them by their older friends in fraternities/sororities. But as a college senior who is about to graduate and go onto bigger, better things, you are held to a much higher standard. I used to have a bleeding heart type empathy until I realized that some people truly deserve neither your forgiveness nor your lack of judgment for their selfish actions. A physician's duty is to treat the patient in front of them regardless of their social and personal history. However, that does not mean the patients are free from judgment for their actions.

Dude...that's kind of twisted. Judging your patients? How do you know their life? What they've went through personally to get them there?

But to each their own, best of luck!
 
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Man, try sitting on an honor council and then say that (also not trying to be combative at all lol). I've had 4 cases with students who had 120 credits, were about to put their foot out the door, and were caught cheating ONCE. Everyone makes mistakes! You should repent, and be given another chance. Those 4 students, expelled, with no credit transfer, and 2 years of not being able to attend any school in our state.

They were left with nothing. Their lives were at a standstill. It makes you think differently.

My advice to everyone in general will always be TO NEVER CHEAT. It's NOT WORTH IT. Cheating screws you over like no other. But, for the one-time offenders, it's hard for me to watch one mistake marr their entire lives.
I get it - policies can be overly harsh, and your school's policy is horrifying to me (no credit transfer??) It still makes my blood boil to think of my little sister's expulsion from college due to a terrible policy that was changed immediately after she left. I don't think I'll ever get over that.

It's one thing if the penalties are grossly disproportionate to the crime. I would encourage my shoplifting friend to lie if the penalty for stealing were losing an arm. But if the penalties are widely accepted as proportionate and necessary for a climate of integrity, honesty is the best policy. What's at stake in this case is not just whether the OP gets into med school, but his integrity. He has compromised his own integrity once by cheating - a terrible mistake that he now regrets. Continuing to lie will only compound that mistake. Lies - especially serious ones like this one would be - chip away at the conscience, diminish the meaningfulness of our successes, and leave us always on guard against potential exposure.

This is all aside from the fact that the professor may show more leniency if the OP tells the truth.

BTW, I appreciate your emphasis on empathy. I just think that telling the truth is actually the best route for the OP in this case.
 
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Dude...that's kind of twisted. Judging your patients? How do you know their life? What they've went through personally to get them there?

But to each their own, best of luck!
-____- You get to know their life by talking to them......that's the whole point of taking a history. I work in the ED alongside physicians, and even the best ones still make a few judgmental remarks about their patients sometimes, especially if the patient is a whiner, a drug-seeker, or clearly noncompliant (comes back for CHF or something else exacerbated by smoking cigarettes even though they've been told multiple times to stop).

Kudos to you for maintaining a higher level of empathy than I do. I've just started developing jadedness and compassion fatigue early from being the ED scribe who not only sees the reality of medicine every day but also acts as a sounding board for physicians to vent their frustrations (including judging certain patients).
 
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That's their own fault for cheating when they knew they were that close to graduating. No reasonably intelligent and ethical person makes that kind of mistake.
Exactly.
They don't have to attend a school with a real honor code and they didn't have to cheat.
It's always "the first time..."
They got what they deserved.
 
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Sure, it's easy for you and me to say that since we've never been in a situation like that. I just empathize with them. It's one thing reading about someone's experiences on some forum. And it's another to see someone's entire life unraveling before you.

I'd hope that we, as aspiring physicians, would be able to have more empathy than that. What are we going to do tomorrow? Berate and humiliate the 300-lb patient sitting before us, how about the one who smoked himself to lung cancer, or any other patient that takes part in activities detrimental to their health? And these people have erred time and again.

Everyone deserves a second chance, OP, I hope you have one as well. You made a horrible judgement call, but I hope you understand the seriousness of your decisions, and have a chance to improve yourself.

You confuse "berate and humiliate" with "not hold up as an ideal of a particular trait."

Most people would not berate and humiliate someone for a poor choice such as cheating. They would, however, state that this person probably does not fit well into a profession that demands an extremely high level of integrity. Similarly, most people would not berate and humiliate someone for being morbidly obese, but they probably would not ask that person to lead a seminar on a healthy diet and exercise regimen.
 
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Sorry, misread your post there. I agree with you.

On another note, I don't think I misread your post, IlDestriero! Man, where's the compassion they're going for in physicians these days? One impulsive mistake as a 19-year-old makes you personally dishonorable, kicked out of school, and permanently barred from entering a profession you've been yearning to join? Yikes.
The big issue is that lapses in character and professionalism are great predictors of troublesome behavior, such as falsifying records and billing fraud, down the road. Cheating takes a certain sort of person that values their own interests more than their integrity, and those people tend to continue to cheat throughout their lives. Medicine doesn't need those types, though we end up with many anyway, it still helps to weed one more of them out early on to protect the integrity of the profession.
 
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I don't understand, clearly general chem is harder........ Organic chem (while I still have to take the actual 1 and 2) is all carbon based....
You don't even know the world of pain you're in for. Organic Chem is all about memorization, whereas gen Chem was mostly conceptual math. You need to memorize reactions, and then successfully use those reactions to predict the structures that will result from combining various things. The types of atoms involved may be substantially less than gen chem, but the structures you are working with are infinitely more complex.
 
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Does he even care or have we been trolled?

Troll or not its a good reminder for anyone who would ever feel the need to cheat. I'm sure most of us has had the urge to do it at least once in our college careers, this is just a heavy reminder from not only med school admissions and academic integrity councilmen that its a serious offense and potential career ender.

....So thank you troll for this thread if your still out there :poke:
 
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Chances are if someone gets caught for cheating, they've probably done it a hundred times before finally getting caught. That's usually the case. Anyway I wouldn't want these kinds of people as colleagues and I'm sure most adcoms would agree.
 
You confuse "berate and humiliate" with "not hold up as an ideal of a particular trait."

Most people would not berate and humiliate someone for a poor choice such as cheating. They would, however, state that this person probably does not fit well into a profession that demands an extremely high level of integrity. Similarly, most people would not berate and humiliate someone for being morbidly obese, but they probably would not ask that person to lead a seminar on a healthy diet and exercise regimen.


Look, this is not one of those thoughtless, youngster mistakes, where the kid needs to grow up a little. This is a big deal. Every syllabus I have ever seen, every student handbook, and at some schools, for every test or assignment you submit, attached is a place for you to sign your agreement to the school's academic honesty policy. If you can read enough to take a test or hand in an assignment or research paper or whatever, dude it's there, clear as day.

Yes. We are all human. But certain things are more than being about a bad choice. They are just morally and ethically wrong. Now, when a school goes through the process of attaching these statements to document after document, which you are required to sign, so that you can't say, "Oh. I forgot about your academic honesty policy," there is NOTHING YOU CAN DO but re-think yourself and your life and move forward with the written policy for the consequences of signing and then not following the policy--short of saying someone held a gun to your head and then proving it--or proving that they just plain out have the wrong person accused of cheating.

It's no different than plagiarizing, really. You are taking someone else's work/answers and applying them as your own. Could you imagine doing a ton of research, following all the protocols, writing it up according to the required standards, and then someone taking credit for that body of work?

The whole thing sucks; but it wasn't a mistake or a bad choice--so much as it was just an out and out lie and act of theft. And yes, people lie and steal. But then they have to do a lot to show that they have changed their thinking and conduct. There is sorrow--and not just b/c of the consequences, but b/c of the actual immorality and lack of ethics. Then there is restitution and gong through the process of proof of non-recidivism.

It's a hard line; but it has to be upheld. What is the school saying if it doesn't? They are in effect saying that the earned degrees their students receive are utterly worthless. They might as well become degree mills. Come on. It's not a mistake. In the common vernacular, it's a sin. When we sin, we need genuine sorrow, acceptance of consequences, the desire and act of making restitution, and then demonstration of a better pattern of behavior.
 
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Any news OP? I realize it's only been a few days, but being at the tail end of a semester I would think something like this would be pushed through before winter break starts.

Academic integrity cases can be handled on a timeline months after the incident has been reported. If this was a recent incident, then it's unlikely it will be resolved so quickly unless OP approached the professor and settled on something privately.
 
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Look, this is not one of those thoughtless, youngster mistakes, where the kid needs to grow up a little. This is a big deal. Every syllabus I have ever seen, every student handbook, and at some schools, for every test or assignment you submit, attached is a place for you to sign your agreement to the school's academic honesty policy. If you can read enough to take a test or hand in an assignment or research paper or whatever, dude it's there, clear as day.

Yes. We are all human. But certain things are more than being about a bad choice. They are just morally and ethically wrong. Now, when a school goes through the process of attaching these statements to document after document, which you are required to sign, so that you can't say, "Oh. I forgot about your academic honesty policy," there is NOTHING YOU CAN DO but re-think yourself and your life and move forward with the written policy for the consequences of signing and then not following the policy--short of saying someone held a gun to your head and then proving it--or proving that they just plain out have the wrong person accused of cheating.

It's no different than plagiarizing, really. You are taking someone else's work/answers and applying them as your own. Could you imagine doing a ton of research, following all the protocols, writing it up according to the required standards, and then someone taking credit for that body of work?

The whole thing sucks; but it wasn't a mistake or a bad choice--so much as it was just an out and out lie and act of theft. And yes, people lie and steal. But then they have to do a lot to show that they have changed their thinking and conduct. There is sorrow--and not just b/c of the consequences, but b/c of the actual immorality and lack of ethics. Then there is restitution and gong through the process of proof of non-recidivism.

It's a hard line; but it has to be upheld. What is the school saying if it doesn't? They are in effect saying that the earned degrees their students receive are utterly worthless. They might as well become degree mills. Come on. It's not a mistake. In the common vernacular, it's a sin. When we sin, we need genuine sorrow, acceptance of consequences, the desire and act of making restitution, and then demonstration of a better pattern of behavior.
I... don't think I said anything about it being a "thoughtless, younger mistake" or about how he should be excused for it. In fact, I made the point that he should have to deal with the consequences :p
 
You don't even know the world of pain you're in for. Organic Chem is all about memorization, whereas gen Chem was mostly conceptual math. You need to memorize reactions, and then successfully use those reactions to predict the structures that will result from combining various things. The types of atoms involved may be substantially less than gen chem, but the structures you are working with are infinitely more complex.

O-Chem isn't so much memorization, but rather understanding very basic concepts in the contexts of spacial reasoning... something that for 99% of students taking it, is something the have NEVER experienced in their academic life. I'd take O-Chem over gen chem in a heartbeat.
 
O-Chem isn't so much memorization, but rather understanding very basic concepts in the contexts of spacial reasoning... something that for 99% of students taking it, is something the have NEVER experienced in their academic life. I'd take O-Chem over gen chem in a heartbeat.
Depends on which course. Ochem II was more about straight memorizing of reagents and reactions and knowing what you needed for multi-step synthesis. Ochem I was more about structures and spatial BS, nomenclature, and structures. Ochem II I found to be the harder of the two courses.
 
I... don't think I said anything about it being a "thoughtless, younger mistake" or about how he should be excused for it. In fact, I made the point that he should have to deal with the consequences :p

No, but really, this person isn't being "smacked down" over something thoughtless or some "mistake." It wasn't a mindless error. The person was very intentional in what they did. It's sad; but they did wrong and got caught doing wrong. Kind of no getting around this, no matter which way anyone tries to slice it up.
 
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No, but really, this person isn't being "smacked down" over something thoughtless or some "mistake." It wasn't a mindless error. The person was very intentional in what they did. It's sad; but they did wrong and got caught doing wrong. Kind of no getting around this, no matter which way anyone tries to slice it up.

Jl lin, c'mon, you can't say this. Maybe the OP decided he didn't know the material well enough so when it came time for the final made sure he sat right next to the smartest guy in the class so he could copy. For the first time he made the active decision to cheat and planned it out.

Maybe the OP was in the middle of the exam, in the middle of a tough problem, looked up at the clock to see how much time he had left, and his eyes were traveling from the clock back down to his page he saw out of the corner of his eye the guy sitting next to him had solved it, and he let his eyes linger on that exam longer than he should have.

It is cheating either way, and they are both unquestionably wrong, but they are two very different scenarios. One is "very intentional," as you put it, and one is an impulsive mistake. We don't know what happened, and it's unproductive to speculate. It's even more unproductive to assume one scenario and judge the person based on a potentially faulty assumption.
 
No, but really, this person isn't being "smacked down" over something thoughtless or some "mistake." It wasn't a mindless error. The person was very intentional in what they did. It's sad; but they did wrong and got caught doing wrong. Kind of no getting around this, no matter which way anyone tries to slice it up.
I didn't say they were. I have no idea how you're interpreting my post, but I assure you that you're not interpreting it how I meant it or how it was written.
 
Jl lin, c'mon, you can't say this. Maybe the OP decided he didn't know the material well enough so when it came time for the final made sure he sat right next to the smartest guy in the class so he could copy. For the first time he made the active decision to cheat and planned it out.

Maybe the OP was in the middle of the exam, in the middle of a tough problem, looked up at the clock to see how much time he had left, and his eyes were traveling from the clock back down to his page he saw out of the corner of his eye the guy sitting next to him had solved it, and he let his eyes linger on that exam longer than he should have.

It is cheating either way, and they are both unquestionably wrong, but they are two very different scenarios. One is "very intentional," as you put it, and one is an impulsive mistake. We don't know what happened, and it's unproductive to speculate. It's even more unproductive to assume one scenario and judge the person based on a potentially faulty assumption.


Seriously?
 
Yeah. Do you not see either one of the scenarios as possible? I'm honestly confused by your "seriously?" comment; I really don't see what's so controversial about what I was saying! Enlighten me :)
 
I didn't say they were. I have no idea how you're interpreting my post, but I assure you that you're not interpreting it how I meant it or how it was written.

Yes. I am sorry. It was actually meant for the dude to which you responded. My bad.

Regardless of your position or the other dude's position, it wasn't a mere "mistake." It's not about berating anyone. It's about doing wrong, and now the person has to fess up and deal. I mean, yes. The person may have panicked, but it wasn't even like he/she had their finger on the "trigger" and twitched, then "Boom." It was intentional.

But the OP seems to have left the scene of his post/s/thread.

I'm sure you and just about everyone else here agrees that academic integrity is a huge deal.
I mean, I am seriously wondering this. Is my school the only one that made sure their students signed an honesty/academic integrity promise with each test, paper, or project submitted?
I am reasonably sure most schools are doing this now. If they are behind in incorporating this, well, they will be doing it soon. It's their way of saying, "Just in case you forgot the rules of education here, you must sign this, and without your signing it on this and every, single test, project, paper, whatever, the assignment/s will NOT receive credit." That's how dead serious Drexel was about it. In doing this, with each and every assignment, you can't say, "Oops. I forgot" or "Oops I signed it but didn't read it." The professors can't and won't except the assignments or tests without the signature. Try using that latter excuse. Their response will be "Sorry dear student, but basic reading and comprehension is a requirement for attending this school/program as well as for this test/assignment; hence you have no excuse."
 
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Yeah. Do you not see either one of the scenarios as possible? I'm honestly confused by your "seriously?" comment; I really don't see what's so controversial about what I was saying! Enlighten me :)


Sigh. I can't believe you actually need "enlightenment" on this.
But short of my response above this one, I will add only this portion of one of my previous replies in this thread:

It's a hard line; but it has to be upheld. What is the school saying if it doesn't? They are in effect saying that the earned degrees their students receive are utterly worthless. They might as well become degree mills. Come on. It's not a mistake. In the common vernacular, it's a sin. When we sin, we need genuine sorrow, acceptance of consequences, the desire and act of making restitution, and then demonstration of a better pattern of behavior.
 
What I wrote was in response to what you wrote, so quoting what you wrote again isn't going to help me understand your position which--and I know you're exasperated with me--I'm still struggling to understand. I think there's a fundamental, qualitative difference between an elaborate plan to cheat and an impulsively seizing on an unexpected opportunity, and you don't seem to recognize any difference between the two at all. That's what I don't get. You seem to be assigning motive and intent to a situation whose circumstances we know nothing about.

Nobody is saying that impulsive cheating is acceptable while intended cheating isn't, or that there shouldn't be consequences; I think he should fail the course.

I don't know, maybe I'm the only one who has had exams where the seating was such that when I wanted to glance at the clock I had to make an active effort *not* to accidentally see others' exams. It would have been very easy to, in the heat of the moment, let my eyes linger on an exam. That would be cheating, and that would be wrong, but it is not the same as actively creating an elaborate plan to cheat. The world isn't black and white.

I'm not sure that we'll ever see eye to eye on this and while I love respectful dialogues between open minds, I'm not sure it's worth more of our time to be honest! But I'm glad we agree that cheating is bad and we don't ever plan on doing it :)
 
Oh, and before I take off, I'll note that our justice system also reflects the difference between committing a crime impulsively and committing it with intent. Murder charges are different if you carefully planned the murder versus committed it in a "heat of passion." This same distinction applies here. I can't tell you which one the OP committed, and neither can anyone else.
 
Oh, and before I take off, I'll note that our justice system also reflects the difference between committing a crime impulsively and committing it with intent. Murder charges are different if you carefully planned the murder versus committed it in a "heat of passion." This same distinction applies here. I can't tell you which one the OP committed, and neither can anyone else.

To me, this seems like you are using a moral equivalence fallacy by comparing cheating on a test to murder. They are no where close to each other in terms of severity.
 
No no, I wasn't comparing the two *crimes* at all; I was comparing *intent* behind the crime. Two very different things. All I was saying is that intent matters in the eyes of the law, whereas the person I was discussing this with seemed to think that a given crime only has one possible level of intent.

I think you'd find the same would apply to any crime or unethical act. I mentioned in another post how I was arguing with my brother one time and let slip some very hurtful words. There's a difference between me very intentionally making the decision I wanted to really hurt my brother's feelings and planning out how to do that and going up to him and deliberately hurting him, versus in the heat of the moment during a passionate argument letting some unwise words fly. End result is the same--I hurt his feelings--but circumstances surrounding it are very different.

Is that a better analogy for you? I meant to stay off this thread, but I wouldn't want anyone thinking I was comparing cheating to murder! :)
 
Oh, and before I take off, I'll note that our justice system also reflects the difference between committing a crime impulsively and committing it with intent. Murder charges are different if you carefully planned the murder versus committed it in a "heat of passion." This same distinction applies here. I can't tell you which one the OP committed, and neither can anyone else.


OK, well, as with holding most jobs (those not under some binding contract, etc, being the exception--that is to say, those jobs not held under At-Will-Employment), post-secondary schools are not held to the same local, state, or federal judicial processes internally, in terms of how they work policies within their own system. In general, it's a little tougher for schools to dump you as compared with AWE-employers--b/c the latter do not need a reason to terminate. They only have to worry whether or not the termination will come down to an EEOC issue--that's their big concern. In a similar way, colleges establish and run their own schools. Public schools may be a bit tricky compared with private schools, but they still have policies that are internally developed and implemented--and they have nothing to do with our judicial system per se. Only if crimes occur therein, which are prohibited by local, state, or federal law, do they have to abide and have things adjudicated within any of those aforementioned applicable judicial systems, generally speaking.

So your analogy is not really applicable when it comes to the internal rules established by a particular school--unless you are talking about something like EEOC violations, sexual harassment, that sort of thing-- and also, with the exception that legal cases could be made based on whether a school has demonstrated that it has not consistently followed its own rules--and even that depends on the specifics. There are extensions and limits on that, but my point is this. ***The school makes the rules. ***They establish the policies and how they will go forth and be enforced, as well as how they will investigate and internally determine consequences.*** When it comes to academic honesty, they can't play fast and loose with this, and for the most part, they won't. Their name and livelihood depends on it. Once more, when it comes to cheating and issues of academic integrity/honesty--the very integrity of the school/programs depends on consistency in these processes.

Now, if a student can prove or bring reasonable doubt to the accusation, then that is another situation. But whether or not you leaned over for X amount of seconds and looked at someone's paper, you as the student have probably signed, somewhere, an understanding that is a legally stated agreement with the academic honesty statement of the school.

And really for an ochem I exam, unless you have very sharp vision and an eidetic memory (which in most cases, then, you really wouldn't need to cheat in the first place--unless you had crap for comprehension), um, how are you merely going to look at someone else's work for a few seconds and get something out of it worth taking? Getting anything substantial by intently looking would be obvious!!!

Geez, failing the thing is infinitely better than turning your eyes to the right or left when taking such exams. So, what does a smart person do when they take an exam? They keep their head and eyes straight and down on their own work. That's where they live. That's their whole universe during the duration of the exam. If you have to lift up you head and stretch, you do so with your eyes closed. If you want to look up at a clock, if there is one there, you do a 2 second sweep and immediately put eyes back down on your own work. Heck, you should fear even the misinterpretation that you are doing any other business but your own. Listen, I have taught students. Guess what? Most of the time, you can tell who is into their own work and who is not, or who is just lost or spacing out.

Seriously, the plausibility of what you are suggesting is on the absurd side of things. The OP never said he was falsely accused.

Bottom line is this: he/she either moved off of his/her work on to someone else's or she/he did not. It's not complicated unless there is a truly false accusation. There's none of this, "I only cheated a little versus cheated a lot" in terms of academic honesty policies. You either did or your didn't. It's like being pregnant. You either are or your aren't, period. So, it is you then that needs to please explain "I only cheated a little by accident."
 
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It is wrong to cheat, but now you have no choice but to deny everything

I won't advocate further dishonesty, but I wouldn't admit to anything or volunteer information needlessly. Groveling or hoping the professor will have mercy is a losing strategy IMO as most won't care. Assuming that leniency will be granted is naive at best. Without lying, I would try to elucidate all of the evidence she has against you. Many will undoubtedly disagree with me but I would write back stating that you have never been accused of academic dishonesty in the past and were deeply disturbed by the allegations. I would also ask for the proof or basis for suspicion for the allegations she mentioned.

Edited: And my response was predicated upon my school's policy which would have resulted in a dismissal without any chance of reprieve or leniency. You do yourself no favor by admitting to it outright in my opinion. Perhaps the OP's school is different.
 
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I won't advocate further dishonesty, but I wouldn't admit to anything or volunteer information needlessly. Groveling or hoping the professor will have mercy is a losing strategy IMO as most won't care. Assuming that leniency will be granted is naive at best. Without lying, I would try to elucidate all of the evidence she has against you. Many will undoubtedly disagree with me but I would write back stating that you have never been accused of academic dishonesty in the past and were deeply disturbed by the allegations. I would also ask for the proof or basis for suspicion for the allegations she mentioned.

Edited: And my response was predicated upon my school's policy which would have resulted in a dismissal without any chance of reprieve or leniency. You do yourself no favor by admitting to it outright in my opinion. Perhaps the OP's school is different.
I'm under the impressionthat OP is really caught and that confession is a formality at this point. Not only due to their posts but the fact that most cheaters are too stupid/lazy to cheat in a way that isn't obvious
 
I've repeatedly said that both planned and unplanned cheating are unacceptable, so asserting that the OP never said he was falsely accused is irrelevant. I also think you're making an incredible number of assumptions. For example, you question how glancing at somebody's exam for two seconds could help on an exam. When I practiced Orgo and was completely stuck on a synthesis problem, sometimes I would quickly open and close the solutions manual (yes, and look at it for about two seconds) because I wanted a hint but still wanted to work through the problem. Many times that was just the catalyst I needed to figure out the problem. So for me, looking at somebody else's exam for two seconds could certainly have been helpful. Just because you haven't personally experienced experienced something doesn't mean it can't exist. You seem to be taking the fact that the OP cheated (which is the only fact we know) and creating this narrative surrounding it based on your own personal experiences and assumptions.

We're talking about failing the class vs. failing the class plus getting an IA. As you can still graduate with an IA, your fear that a school that "simply" fails the person their first time getting caught would turn into a diploma mill is completely unfounded, because there would be zero difference in the graduation rates. Like, none whatsoever.

And I think you're fundamentally misunderstanding my point. I'm not saying "cheated a little" vs. "cheated a lot" at all. I think I've been quite clear that I've meant "very deliberately planned the cheating" vs. "in the heat of the exam found himself cheating." You're talking about amount/severity; I'm talking about intent. Those are two very, very different things. And since I'm not making much progress in helping you understand my position, I'm gonna call it a wrap.
 
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My question to you OP, if you have to cheat in Ochem how will you ever make it in med school? Also, this is a huge red flag because if I was the professor or admissions committee I would be wondering if this is the first time you have cheated. If you do end up taking an F in the course then you will have to explain in an interview why. I'm sorry to say but the chances my friend look slim to none.
 
Again, you're assuming that the OP couldn't have done well without cheating. Perhaps the OP is an A Orgo student who was worried about getting an A- and made the unacceptable decision to cheat.

Let's everyone stop with all the assumptions. The only thing we know is that the OP cheated, and we don't know any of the circumstances surrounding it. Questions about how med schools will view a cheater are legitimate; speculating about the long-term character, or the intent, or the ability of the OP to succeed academically in med school are not.
 
OP's is very much my exact story. I hope that some of this is helpful, because threads like this nearly derailed me in my search for answers back in college. To be fair, the only reason I've made an account is because I saw this today.

My senior year (2010), I plagiarized a final paper in an anthro class, and was caught doing so. Rightfully, may I add. Reasons aside (they're not important here), I was in the same mindset as OP. Much worse, the premedical advisor at my institution is the chair of the AI committee. Therefore, despite the fact that the incident was not placed on my record, I had to write the AI statement.

I did not get in during 2010-2011's application cycle. Neither did I get in during 2012-2013's, after completing a Master's degree and serving in AmeriCorps. It took until this cycle (just a few weeks ago), and a lot of arduous networking, volunteering, and work, to get some acceptances (and may I say it is sweet).

I want to make something clear for you, OP, and for some of the posters in this thread. What you did was bad, as you well know. But it is not irrevocable. I made the mistake of believing some of the caustic things that people can post on sdn, and it nearly brought me off my path towards medicine. An AI incident is a quantifiable negative item on your checklist, just as good grades and solid MCAT are positive items. You're going to have your work cut out for you, and I would advise reconsidering (for many reasons, not just this) applying on the traditional path. Taking some time away from this will give perspective, timing, tact, and clarity to your presentation of yourself further down the road.
 
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Again, you're assuming that the OP couldn't have done well without cheating. Perhaps the OP is an A Orgo student who was worried about getting an A- and made the unacceptable decision to cheat.

Let's everyone stop with all the assumptions. The only thing we know is that the OP cheated, and we don't know any of the circumstances surrounding it. Questions about how med schools will view a cheater are legitimate; speculating about the long-term character, or the intent, or the ability of the OP to succeed academically in med school are not.

Agree with bolded. While I haven't reviewed an applicant with a cheating IA on their record (not sure if my school doesn't invite them or if I just haven't seen them in the ~500 applications I've reviewed), and while IAs are interpreted independently by each member of the committee, I think a common approach is mainly to see if the applicant took responsibility, made no excuses, and SHOWED (more than told) how they have matured and learned from the mistake. Yes, the question comes up of whether this is a one time offense or a chronic thing, but as jamcat said, we don't know, and it's unfair to assume that this is a chronic problem, even if it's "more likely" to be one. I see we have approached Burnett's Law and the claim has been made that this applicant won't survive medical school/won't be a good doctor/etc....that's up to the rest of the application, which the committee would view holistically.

Yes, a cheating IA is a HUGE red flag that will take OP several years and a lot of demonstrated growth to overcome. But let's stop with the snap judgments about his character or his quality as a future doctor from his one little post on SDN.
 
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No no, I wasn't comparing the two *crimes* at all; I was comparing *intent* behind the crime. Two very different things. All I was saying is that intent matters in the eyes of the law, whereas the person I was discussing this with seemed to think that a given crime only has one possible level of intent.

Still not buying it, it is still to extreme of an example.

I think you'd find the same would apply to any crime or unethical act. I mentioned in another post how I was arguing with my brother one time and let slip some very hurtful words. There's a difference between me very intentionally making the decision I wanted to really hurt my brother's feelings and planning out how to do that and going up to him and deliberately hurting him, versus in the heat of the moment during a passionate argument letting some unwise words fly. End result is the same--I hurt his feelings--but circumstances surrounding it are very different.

Is that a better analogy for you? I meant to stay off this thread, but I wouldn't want anyone thinking I was comparing cheating to murder! :)

Yes, this is a better analogy. I should have mentioned in my first post that although I thought your example was a bit off, I understood what you were trying to get at. In my opinion, this should be handled according to the professor's syllabus (or college's code of conduct). If it states that cheating results in x punishment, then that is what they get. However, if it says that it is up to the professor's discretion, then intent certainly can play a role.
 
I'm under the impressionthat OP is really caught and that confession is a formality at this point. Not only due to their posts but the fact that most cheaters are too stupid/lazy to cheat in a way that isn't obvious

Fair enough, but I wouldn't automatically assume that the email means that it is 100% over. My former organic professor relayed a story about cheating in his organic chemistry II class that occurred right after I took the course. He told me that he couldn't prove that the student had cheated, but wanted to confront him to see if he would confess and to judge his reaction. In that particular case, the exams all had similar wrong answers that were unique. The professor couldn't prove whether the student was the victim of someone copying off of his exam or whether the student was involved in it. If there is even a snowball's chance in hades that he could escape an institutional action and F, it is worth it. Nevertheless, you are absolutely correct that the odds are high that the damage is already done and the OP is in a pickle.
 
Again, you're assuming that the OP couldn't have done well without cheating. Perhaps the OP is an A Orgo student who was worried about getting an A- and made the unacceptable decision to cheat.

Let's everyone stop with all the assumptions. The only thing we know is that the OP cheated, and we don't know any of the circumstances surrounding it. Questions about how med schools will view a cheater are legitimate; speculating about the long-term character, or the intent, or the ability of the OP to succeed academically in med school are not.


Well, I disagree, especially about a school losing by not upholding its academic integrity policies. I also disagree re: YOUR ASSUMPTION of no intent by cheating in the "head of the moment." LOL. Quite humorous really.
If you are saying the student turned his/her head aside without any intention of cheating and then subconsciously choose the same answer, yes. We know this can happen. That's why you are trained to cover up future questions and so forth when you are testing yourself. This is inadvertent, but that is not at all what the OP presented--and he or she has not returned to clarify such a point. Hmmm. Sometime the duck that quacks and walks like a duck IS a duck. Sometimes a cigar is a cigar.

Anyone taking an exam or doing work that cannot or should not be shared needs to go the extra mile about their behavior. Like I said. You don't even want to give the slightest impression of dishonesty or not being down to business with your own work.

Personally, no offense to another poster here, but I get really burned about writing intensive work and people plagiarizing. You do know that you can accidently plagiarize, and still be held accountable in terms of academic dishonesty. That's why you have to go through such pains to cite sources properly or according to the requirements and so forth.

So, unless the student was falsely accused or had some serious, momentary, inadvertent and subconscious cheating, I think she/he is in bad shape.

Besides the obvious ethical issues, the real value of this thread is to emphasize how cheating is SO not worth it--and keep your eyes on your own "plate," or do your own work and maintain rigorous citation standards for publishing through your school, etc. It's kind of the opposite of the NIKE slogan: "Just do it." Rather, it should be, "Just DON'T DO IT!"

I don't know how the OP is trying to clean up her/his mess; but you can bet it will probably leave a stain.
 
Still not buying it, it is still to extreme of an example.



Yes, this is a better analogy. I should have mentioned in my first post that although I thought your example was a bit off, I understood what you were trying to get at. In my opinion, this should be handled according to the professor's syllabus (or college's code of conduct). If it states that cheating results in x punishment, then that is what they get. However, if it says that it is up to the professor's discretion, then intent certainly can play a role.


I will bet $50 the OP signed an academic honesty policy. Unless there is truly false accusation or some bizarre misinterpretation or the slight chance the dude inadvertently saw and copied another's work, it's a boatload of trouble for the person.
 
I'm glad you find humor in a discussion of something that may ruin a 20-year-old's dream career. ???

Your remarks continue to indicate that you don't comprehend what I'm saying. I'll not speculate over whether it's an articulation issue on my part or a comprehension issue on your part, so let's just agree to disagree. Because I disagree emphatically with just about every sentence you wrote.
 
I'm glad you find humor in a discussion of something that may ruin a 20-year-old's dream career. ???

Your remarks continue to indicate that you don't comprehend what I'm saying. I'll not speculate over whether it's an articulation issue on my part or a comprehension issue on your part, so let's just agree to disagree. Because I disagree emphatically with just about every sentence you wrote.
The 20-year olds dream career got thrown out the window when THEY chose to cheat. People most likely find humor in it because the OP was too incompetent to understand the rules of education that we have known since we were children in elementary school.
 
You sit on the Honor Council and you're advising him to lie about his actions, compounding the dishonesty and discrediting his professor?

Does not compute...

This is why lawyers exist. Someone has to give the individual advice independent from their views on wider issues.
 
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