Got Caught Cheating on Exam, Is my pre-med career over?

[jl lin]

I'm glad you find humor in a discussion of something that may ruin a 20-year-old's dream career. ???

Your remarks continue to indicate that you don't comprehend what I'm saying. I'll not speculate over whether it's an articulation issue on my part or a comprehension issue on your part, so let's just agree to disagree. Because I disagree emphatically with just about every sentence you wrote.

Uh What? Are you the OP? Who said I find humor in the OP's plight? You have noticed he/she hasn't returned, no? And you make one odd and inappropriate comparison after another. 'I didn't intentionally mean to hurt my brother versus I didn't plan to hurt my brother in the heat of the moment...' It matters not. Here's why:

Unless you lost total awareness of reality, it is you that has hurt your brother - you - did - it. . .you. And in fact, he ended up hurt, according to your example. Now, I didn't hurt your brother. The prof didn't hurt your brother. The kid sitting two seat up didn't hurt your brother. Try to see what I am getting at here. . .cause you aren't. In like manner, the student that cheated, if indeed he/she did cheat, did it then, regardless of intent--not the prof, not you, not me, not the kid sitting two seats up.

Ownership man. Regardless of the intent, unless it was purely accidental, a false accusation, or an alien inserted himself into your body -- or you don't have the ability to discern reality--you hurt your brother and the OP cheated.

Now, depending upon how badly you hurt your brother, and if charges are put against you, why then, yes, intent can factor into how it all goes down thereafter. Still, assault and battery is a felony, at least in my state--and number of them I have read about. Yes, of course they will exonerate you or cut you a break, regardless of how the particular jurisdiction defines it, IF it is truly a false accusation. . . or IF it was truly accidental. . . or IF you lost touch with reality. . .or IF an alien beamed down and assumed control over your body. K? That is of course, assuming any of these possibilities can be proven or at least strongly demonstrated somehow by a preponderance of evidence.

Now, a school and it's policies on academic integrity doesn't have to take into consideration INTENT. If the facts indicate that OP cheated--and indeed it can be proven enough to satisfy the prof, dean, advisory panel, etc,--the student will be held accountable according to their policies. OP may even have the right to appeal--but it doesn't go outside the institution--unless it meets the aforementioned criteria I have given in my other response. (Go look it up again. I'm not recopying it.) Even an appeal will stay in-house--their rules--their turf--their policies. Get it? How they put it down on forms that go to other institutions, well, I'd say that is pretty serious too.

If the person cannot prove any of the possibilities like I have offered in your comparison, and he is caught, he, like you with your brother, needs to be held accountable. See, if you break your brother's maxilla, it's not going to matter so much if you planned and intended to break it or not-unless he presses or someone else can press charges. Nonetheless, you still broke it. Again, that will be dealt with through the particular jurisdiction and legal processes, if found applicable. But even ethically, at least in my book, I'd say that you'd need to make restitution for your brother's injury, regardless of intent. And for the cheater (or alleged cheater found guilty), the penalty and restitution may be combined into whatever is in the school's academic dishonesty policies.

Now in terms of academic dishonesty, for the last stinking time, that is determined by the school--and pretty much most schools I know take it pretty seriously. Also please stop ignoring the piece of paper or form called the academic integrity promise form that students are given when they start and even after they start classes--not to mention what is written within each course syllabus. The form/s the students sign carry weight. They will NOT be overlooked unless one of the aforementioned exceptional situations is demonstrated to the prof's, dean's or administration's satisfaction.

So, for the OP and other potential cheaters, the school officials may overlook the incident, just as government officials may overlook your assault and battery, IF by chance, you can prove something like an alien had its way with your body.

Why do you think they call exceptions, exceptions?

And stop making babies out of people. That's what lack of ownership does to people. It turns them into babies, incapable of knowing how to do the right thing.

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[estanton]

I don't think using the word "intent" is what we should be going for.

The intent was to cheat. Pre meditation also shouldn't really be considered because one could argue that it is worse to make the impulsive decision in the heat of the test (ooh I like how this sounds) rather than planning it before. In the context of medicine at least.

It's not true that the honor board won't take that into account though. We were always much more lenient if it seemed like it was an impulsive decision in the moment.

OP I take back a bit what I said before about worrying about you treating my family member. With this mistake and time you will develop maturity. I wouldn't trust you with a patient until you could prove that you learned from that mistake and had matured. Adcoms can't expect any more.

I sincerely hope you aren't reading this thread and beating yourself up about it. There has been an interesting discussion that isn't completely on topic to you but the general consensus is that you haven't ruined your future just prolonged the path.

Best of luck.

 

[kthxbai]

Man, try sitting on an honor council and then say that (also not trying to be combative at all lol). I've had 4 cases with students who had 120 credits, were about to put their foot out the door, and were caught cheating ONCE. Everyone makes mistakes! You should repent, and be given another chance. Those 4 students, expelled, with no credit transfer, and 2 years of not being able to attend any school in our state.

They were left with nothing. Their lives were at a standstill. It makes you think differently.

My advice to everyone in general will always be TO NEVER CHEAT. It's NOT WORTH IT. Cheating screws you over like no other. But, for the one-time offenders, it's hard for me to watch one mistake marr their entire lives.

It's never a one-time thing. It's a reflection of a mentality that's simply incompatible with many professions.

The lesson here is, never cheat. And if you must, never get caught.

 

[Falconclaw]

Hello all,

Let me preface this by saying I am a pre-med (currently a junior) at a large public institution

As I type this message I cannot express how distraught and stupid I feel. For the first time in my life I cheated on an exam given in my organic chemistry class, and my teacher sent me an email saying that she has proof that I cheated on my exam by copying the answer to a synthesis problem.

I have not met with the office of academic integrity at my school yet, but I have decided that instead of trying to deny these allegations I will admit the truth. Ever since the start of finals, I was mentally occupied by my parents' impending divorce and slacked off of studying as I was depressed for hours on end. With that being said, I will not use this as an excuse, and will own up to my actions.

Are my chances for medical school done? Otherwise I am a decent applicant, I have done research and internships, and I am a smart kid that does not cheat (I made a 2200 on my SAT). However I made the stupid and irreversible mistake of cheating on my exam, and now I must pay the price. If I made mostly As from now on (I currently have a 3.6 gpa) and get a high score on the MCAT, will medical schools accept me if I take a gap year? I know it is especially damning since I am a junior, but do I have hope? How do I remedy this blemish on my record?

Any advice is welcome. I am typing this with tears on my face as I feel my dreams of becoming a doctor are truly over.

I would ask to talk to the professor in person, and then just tell him or her the truth: about your parents impending divorce, about how much you want to be a doctor, and how this will make your dream much more difficult to achieve. Professors are people too, he or she probably doesn't want to ruin your life.

 

[jl lin]

I don't think using the word "intent" is what we should be going for.

The intent was to cheat. Pre meditation also shouldn't really be considered because one could argue that it is worse to make the impulsive decision in the heat of the test (ooh I like how this sounds) rather than planning it before. In the context of medicine at least.

It's not true that the honor board won't take that into account though. We were always much more lenient if it seemed like it was an impulsive decision in the moment.

OP I take back a bit what I said before about worrying about you treating my family member. With this mistake and time you will develop maturity. I wouldn't trust you with a patient until you could prove that you learned from that mistake and had matured. Adcoms can't expect any more.

I sincerely hope you aren't reading this thread and beating yourself up about it. There has been an interesting discussion that isn't completely on topic to you but the general consensus is that you haven't ruined your future just prolonged the path.

Best of luck.

OH for God's sake. If he/she cheated, heck yes. S/he should definitely give herself/himself a good swift kick in the butt and then sit down and really think about the kind of person he or she wants to be. Adcoms certainly can put a high expectation on integrity. God help them and the institution and professions they represent when they don't. Failing a course doesn't hurt your integrity, but cheating does. Any person or institution that doesn't see that isn't worthy of the feet or the cornerstones upon which they stand.

Impulsive decision to cheat versus premeditated plan to cheat still = cheat.

That's the problem with us humans. We strain at the immediate and superficial rather than sift through the depths of what makes us who and what we really are. The OP, and all the rest of us, including yours truly, should care about what we really are inside. A profession doesn't make us who we really are.

“Our character is what we do when we think no one is looking.”-H. Jackson Brown, Jr.

So, if you are guilty, take ownership. Throw yourself on their mercy. If they say you get an F for the test, consider that you have been given mercy. If they say you have F for the course, you are still given mercy. If you haven't done this or anything like it, you may not be placed on probation. If you are, find out what you have to do to make it right, but also, look inside. We can't truly value what we don't earn, unless it was given as a gift. If I earned a D or F, I may hate it, but at least it's what I earned.

 

[brootas14]

The danger here, and what people seem to be going back on, is how this strings along into a career in medicine. Its a dangerous way of thinking IMO, because even in college, or during your senior year, you're so far from actually practicing as a physician that its silly to draw these lines, make these connections, or abstract conclusions on someone's character because of decisions they made. Its ridiculous to say that cheating is this ingrained in a person's behavior. We're simply to young (generally speaking) to start closing doors.

We (applicants) assign adcoms these mythic statuses, and compare ourselves to other students, without knowing any of their situations. Its this type of aggrandizement, both glorification and condemnation, that pushes people to cheat in the first place. That doesn't take blame off of what I or OP did, but it definitely can distract and obscure the path of mindfulness. Choosing to worry about the larger implications when this sort of thing happens is a valueless decision. Buckling down, staying in the moment, and pursuing your passions is what helped me move past my institutional action incident back towards medicine, and what reminds me of the lack of mindfulness that caused it. You can only do you to the best of your ability. Believing otherwise, focusing on others or what should be/have been leads to anger (especially when you read about people who are already doctors ****ing up). And as we know, anger leads to the dark side.

I'd prefer to live in a world (and the evidence of the last several years points to this being the case) where redemption is possible, that experience is rewarded, and while yes, integrity is valued, it is not idolized in a black and white/ do or die manner.

 

[Judson]

Just playing devil's advocate - if you are willing to crack under stress and cheat in ochem will you crack under stress and cheat your patients as well? What happens if SHTF in your life while you're in med school, residency, private practice?

 

[deleted480308]

The danger here, and what people seem to be going back on, is how this strings along into a career in medicine. Its a dangerous way of thinking IMO, because even in college, or during your senior year, you're so far from actually practicing as a physician that its silly to draw these lines, make these connections, or abstract conclusions on someone's character because of decisions they made. Its ridiculous to say that cheating is this ingrained in a person's behavior. We're simply to young (generally speaking) to start closing doors.

We (applicants) assign adcoms these mythic statuses, and compare ourselves to other students, without knowing any of their situations. Its this type of aggrandizement, both glorification and condemnation, that pushes people to cheat in the first place. That doesn't take blame off of what I or OP did, but it definitely can distract and obscure the path of mindfulness. Choosing to worry about the larger implications when this sort of thing happens is a valueless decision. Buckling down, staying in the moment, and pursuing your passions is what helped me move past my institutional action incident back towards medicine, and what reminds me of the lack of mindfulness that caused it. You can only do you to the best of your ability. Believing otherwise, focusing on others or what should be/have been leads to anger (especially when you read about people who are already doctors ******* up). And as we know, anger leads to the dark side.

I'd prefer to live in a world (and the evidence of the last several years points to this being the case) where redemption is possible, that experience is rewarded, and while yes, integrity is valued, it is not idolized in a black and white/ do or die manner.

You have the ability to not cheat.....and so do thousands of qualified applicants

 

[IlDestriero]

Just playing devil's advocate - if you are willing to crack under stress and cheat in ochem will you crack under stress and cheat your patients as well? What happens if SHTF in your life while you're in med school, residency, private practice?

Exactly.
When you are overwhelmed with 39 things 79 hours into your 80 hour work week running on zero sleep after a call night, can I count on you to have done what you say you did?

 

[brootas14]

My point was that extrapolating to that degree is wrong. Anything before actually studying medicine contributes to your candidacy and application to that field. So, absolutely, it reflects on your studies and pursuit of medicine. But to look 5-10 years out, and say what sort of doctor someone is going to be, is flat out ridiculous. Its up to the schools to weed out those individuals who don't have the work ethic/ability to survive, both in applications and in training them.

You simply cannot make the connections that you are making, not on this kind of timeframe. Its too pessimistic to think that people will never change. I certainly learned how to approach the stressful situations where you have literally too much to do in not enough time (my particular circumstance was an essay, not an exam). In fact, getting caught is one of the clearest instances of learning your lesson that you can have. If you demonstrate to the school that you have gained competency and that you've moved forward, then absolutely you can be counted upon.

Why? Because you will undergo the same testing and be held to the same standards as everyone else. Its not in our right nor the schools' power to make judgments beyond what we hold everyone else to. And if you cheat again, (and to play this how I know it will be played) and are not caught, then so be it. You hope to god that doesn't happen, but you can't control all the variables.

 

[deleted480308]

My point was that extrapolating to that degree is wrong. Anything before actually studying medicine contributes to your candidacy and application to that field. So, absolutely, it reflects on your studies and pursuit of medicine. But to look 5-10 years out, and say what sort of doctor someone is going to be, is flat out ridiculous. Its up to the schools to weed out those individuals who don't have the work ethic/ability to survive, both in applications and in training them.

You simply cannot make the connections that you are making, not on this kind of timeframe. Its too pessimistic to think that people will never change. I certainly learned how to approach the stressful situations where you have literally too much to do in not enough time (my particular circumstance was an essay, not an exam). In fact, getting caught is one of the clearest instances of learning your lesson that you can have. If you demonstrate to the school that you have gained competency and that you've moved forward, then absolutely you can be counted upon.

Why? Because you will undergo the same testing and be held to the same standards as everyone else. Its not in our right nor the schools' power to make judgments beyond what we hold everyone else to. And if you cheat again, (and to play this how I know it will be played) and are not caught, then so be it. You hope to god that doesn't happen, but you can't control all the variables.

I feel very comfortable extrapolating that a student caught cheating is more likely to lack ethics later in their life than a student that hasn't been known to cheat. People can change but I view those as the odds

 

[deleted407021]

I feel very comfortable extrapolating that a student caught cheating is more likely to lack ethics later in their life than a student that hasn't been known to cheat. People can change but I view those as the odds

Not only that, it's entirely possible that this behavior has been a trend and it was just in this instance when they got caught. Perhaps their getting in trouble will be where they reevaluate themselves but it definitely shows a trend of a lack of integrity which, if I know anything about animal behavior, will be reinforced perpetually if they aren't caught.

 

[IlDestriero]

With 80k+ people serious enough to take the MCAT and ~45k applicants applying for 18k spots, it's a sellers market and you don't have to settle for anything but the best applicants. Not everyone can be a physician. Not everyone can be whatever it is that they want to be. That's just the way it is. Sometimes decisions you make as a young adult follow you forever.
-One drink too many.
-Just a quick text while in light traffic.
-Nobody will know I used the solution manual to save time.
-She looked 18 and was in the bar.
-A few hits on the bong Saturday night before the unannounced Monday AM drug screen.
All potential career enders. All bad judgement. All happen all the time, especially the first 2.

 

[Pattycake25]

My point was that extrapolating to that degree is wrong. Anything before actually studying medicine contributes to your candidacy and application to that field. So, absolutely, it reflects on your studies and pursuit of medicine. But to look 5-10 years out, and say what sort of doctor someone is going to be, is flat out ridiculous -

I'm gonna cut you off right there. Retrospective analysis has found that students who cheat while premed are more likely to cheat/be unethical as med students/residents/attendings. Of course, many do change their ways, but why willingly accept a known risk? The data is clear that some only change so far as to be tougher to catch next time...

I mean, how do you know that some students with 2.0 GPAs won't learn the value of an stronger work ethic, and will consistently top the class in basic science exams? How do you know that people with 25 on the MCAT won't appreciate the need for a longer, more comprehensive study schedule, and go on to score a 240 on the Step? How do you know someone with zero research experience isn't just building up a phenomenal research design over the years, and will unleash a Nobel-worthy thesis given the chance at an MD/PhD? No one is saying we can be sure a cheating premed doesn't change their spots, or that someone with a weak academic history won't eventually excel, but there is absolutely predictive value in what is brought to the table come application season, and based on that, it becomes obvious why people with that background find it difficult to get bites. Also, ethics matter far more than test scores - it's just that nearly every applicant scores perfectly in ethics (as far as adcoms know), whereas variation in GPA and MCAT scores is vastly greater, so ethical background almost never influences decisions.

We can't - and don't need to - train everyone interested as physicians. Once you understand that - and I mean REALLY grasp it - insights into why it's almost impossible for someone convicted of academic dishonesty to get into med school make far more sense. And, in fact, the logic becomes unassailable.

 

[brootas14]

It can quickly turn into a witch hunt then. According to sb247, they (taking it off myself because its not personal) are at a higher risk to cheat in the future, apparently in a career in medicine). According to J Senpai, some of them might have cheated, but have not been caught yet. Odds are, over the course of your life, you will be treated by a physician who committed an integrity violation (and I know for a fact now that its possible to get into to medical school having done so). In all these cases, you wouldn't know the difference. You can't put up those kinds of barriers between people based on actions years ago, and you certainly can't keep them there, especially when you speculate on people from one side who might be on the other.

I sincerely hope that none of you mess up as badly as I did, I really do. I don't want to be argumentative on the points that I am making, but you're putting considerable emphasis on things that happen more often than you'd think. Its often not a case of malice, or some larger fault in character, but a lack of focus on the bigger picture, and genuine eagerness to deliver everything gone awry in the form of promising too much, too often, and too late to meet the deadlines. I swear to you that I don't spend my time twirling my moustache and tying people to train tracks.

 

[Pattycake25]

It can quickly turn into a witch hunt then. According to sb247, they (taking it off myself because its not personal) are at a higher risk to cheat in the future, apparently in a career in medicine). According to J Senpai, some of them might have cheated, but have not been caught yet. Odds are, over the course of your life, you will be treated by a physician who committed an integrity violation (and I know for a fact now that its possible to get into to medical school having done so). In all these cases, you wouldn't know the difference. You can't put up those kinds of barriers between people based on actions years ago, and you certainly can't keep them there, especially when you speculate on people from one side who might be on the other.

I sincerely hope that none of you mess up as badly as I did, I really do. I don't want to be argumentative on the points that I am making, but you're putting considerable emphasis on things that happen more often than you'd think. Its often not a case of malice, or some larger fault in character, but a lack of focus on the bigger picture, and genuine eagerness to deliver everything gone awry in the form of promising too much, too often, and too late to meet the deadlines. I swear to you that I don't spend my time twirling my moustache and tying people to train tracks.

I emphasize this part because I suspect it's a foundation to your entire argument - hey, you're not gonna keep ALL the past cheaters out, so why discriminate against the ones who only get caught once? The answer is simple - as many ethically-challenged physicians as there are already, there would be MORE if we toned down the emphasis on ethics in admissions decisions. You'd have to dig up some study that found that the vast majority of premeds commit violations on the level of the ones we are discussing in this thread to justify removing such discrimination from admissions decisions. And even then, I'd still prefer to admit the ones clever enough to avoid getting caught...

 

[brootas14]

I mean, how do you know that some students with 2.0 GPAs won't learn the value of an stronger work ethic, and will consistently top the class in basic science exams? How do you know that people with 25 on the MCAT won't appreciate the need for a longer, more comprehensive study schedule, and go on to score a 240 on the Step? How do you know someone with zero research experience isn't just building up a phenomenal research design over the years, and will unleash a Nobel-worthy thesis given the chance at an MD/PhD?

Because those are either long-term measures or specifically referential to your candidacy as a medical student or doctor. Please do hold me accountable to any of those. Please do not for those things that are reflections of performance in one particular facet of my academic career. My GPA includes that assignment, to the degree that it includes everyone else who took that class, went to that school, etc.

Ultimately, I am not asking for AI to be removed from consideration. There is no need to dig up a study, I have very little to say about the larger issue. But, as I said in my first post (ever and in this thread), it is by far not a life sentence, and hyperbole can be both stated and inferred from some of the things that have been posted, and what has been said is, from my own experience, not the case.

 

[IlDestriero]

This isn't a greeter job at Walmart. You will have access to patient records and private matters, their secrets, their bodies.
You are held to a higher standard. Your actions affect lives. Schools can't take your degree away for being found unethical, but they can set a high bar and exclude those with a history of questionable behavior. Medical boards take the reigns after graduation, though they can be quite forgiving.

 

[jl lin]

The danger here, and what people seem to be going back on, is how this strings along into a career in medicine. Its a dangerous way of thinking IMO, because even in college, or during your senior year, you're so far from actually practicing as a physician that its silly to draw these lines, make these connections, or abstract conclusions on someone's character because of decisions they made. Its ridiculous to say that cheating is this ingrained in a person's behavior. We're simply to young (generally speaking) to start closing doors.

We (applicants) assign adcoms these mythic statuses, and compare ourselves to other students, without knowing any of their situations. Its this type of aggrandizement, both glorification and condemnation, that pushes people to cheat in the first place. That doesn't take blame off of what I or OP did, but it definitely can distract and obscure the path of mindfulness. Choosing to worry about the larger implications when this sort of thing happens is a valueless decision. Buckling down, staying in the moment, and pursuing your passions is what helped me move past my institutional action incident back towards medicine, and what reminds me of the lack of mindfulness that caused it. You can only do you to the best of your ability. Believing otherwise, focusing on others or what should be/have been leads to anger (especially when you read about people who are already doctors ******* up). And as we know, anger leads to the dark side.

I'd prefer to live in a world (and the evidence of the last several years points to this being the case) where redemption is possible, that experience is rewarded, and while yes, integrity is valued, it is not idolized in a black and white/ do or die manner.

Redemption comes when there is genuine sorrow--and not simply sorrow b/c of having to face the consequences--it's sorrow b/c you know inside you aren't being true to yourself or others--and thus you have hurt yourself and others. In effect, cheating means you haven stolen something that was not yours to take. No one said redemption isn't possible. But the first step in correcting dishonesty is honesty, no? It's first, with me and then with others. Avoidance is a form of dishonesty too. If OP is truly sorry, owns it, and takes the steps to make it right and not do it again, he or she has gained something a number of people may never get or hold onto. This is more important than whether or not he or she gets into medical school.

Once again, no updates from the OP.

 

[jl lin]

I emphasize this part because I suspect it's a foundation to your entire argument - hey, you're not gonna keep ALL the past cheaters out, so why discriminate against the ones who only get caught once? The answer is simple - as many ethically-challenged physicians as there are already, there would be MORE if we toned down the emphasis on ethics in admissions decisions. You'd have to dig up some study that found that the vast majority of premeds commit violations on the level of the ones we are discussing in this thread to justify removing such discrimination from admissions decisions. And even then, I'd still prefer to admit the ones clever enough to avoid getting caught...

Going into cheating mode--it always catches up with people somewhere. Karma, Reciprocity, whatever you want to call it. We don't live our lives in secret.

 

[jl lin]

This isn't a greeter job at Walmart. You will have access to patient records and private matters, their secrets, their bodies.
You are held to a higher standard. Your actions affect lives. Schools can't take your degree away for being found unethical, but they can set a high bar and exclude those with a history of questionable behavior. Medical boards take the reigns after graduation, though they can be quite forgiving.

Do they still use the greeters anymore? I heard they stopped using them. Some people aspire to become Walmart greeters. LOL A lot less stressful than most other jobs.

 

[Pattycake25]

Because those are either long-term measures or specifically referential to your candidacy as a medical student or doctor. Please do hold me accountable to any of those. Please do not for those things that are reflections of performance in one particular facet of my academic career. My GPA includes that assignment, to the degree that it includes everyone else who took that class, went to that school, etc.

An ethical lapse is absolutely relevant to your application, because again, some students will just try harder to hide it than to truly repent. And you have no say in what you are or are not held accountable for. The adcoms make those decisions, and when students like myself fully back up their logic for being unforgiving in one particular dimension, they are unlikely to ever relent. There are thousands of applications just like yours, minus the black splotch. Why would anyone ever pick you over the others?

You keep worrying about what is fair for yourself, but what everyone else is worrying about is what is best for the school, and the patient population at large. When discussing adcom thinking, you are frankly WRONG until you accept this perspective, and no amount of rationalization of your misguided lens will ever make it right.

Edit: I just now read your first post, and I see you are one of the lucky few to triumph over an IA. Congratulations! But a few isolated counterexamples doesn't drown out one of the golden rules of med school admissions - academic dishonesty is ALMOST impossible to recover from. You mentioned Americorps and other volunteering in your post. Try to see it as you showing the school you DO have a lot to offer the patients, incentivizing them to overlook your past blunder, rather than as you "making up for" it.

 

[bioman1275]

Hello all,

Let me preface this by saying I am a pre-med (currently a junior) at a large public institution

As I type this message I cannot express how distraught and stupid I feel. For the first time in my life I cheated on an exam given in my organic chemistry class, and my teacher sent me an email saying that she has proof that I cheated on my exam by copying the answer to a synthesis problem.

I have not met with the office of academic integrity at my school yet, but I have decided that instead of trying to deny these allegations I will admit the truth. Ever since the start of finals, I was mentally occupied by my parents' impending divorce and slacked off of studying as I was depressed for hours on end. With that being said, I will not use this as an excuse, and will own up to my actions.

Are my chances for medical school done? Otherwise I am a decent applicant, I have done research and internships, and I am a smart kid that does not cheat (I made a 2200 on my SAT). However I made the stupid and irreversible mistake of cheating on my exam, and now I must pay the price. If I made mostly As from now on (I currently have a 3.6 gpa) and get a high score on the MCAT, will medical schools accept me if I take a gap year? I know it is especially damning since I am a junior, but do I have hope? How do I remedy this blemish on my record?

Any advice is welcome. I am typing this with tears on my face as I feel my dreams of becoming a doctor are truly over.

Learn from this. Preferably don't cheat, but if you must, be clever enough to not get caught. You have to remove distressing thoughts from your mind when working on school. If you cannot do that how do you think you will fare when a patient dies by your mistake? or how will you handle the pressure when in surgery where one wrong move can seriously hurt your patient? Learn to handle stress and focus on the important things, if you cant you don't need to be in this field.

 

[throwawaycheater]

Hello everyone, I know I haven't responded for a while, and no, you haven't been "trolled".

I have gone through and read the responses in this thread, and it seems to be the general consensus that this doesn't wholly destroy my career, just prolongs my journey on to hopefully one day becoming a physician.

With that being said, the amount of generalizations made in this thread are discerning. I am not a terrible person, I volunteer regularly, donate to charity, and try and give back to society. I made a rash mistake, and I don't believe this makes me an unethical person who is unfit to provide healthcare and assisstance to my fellow human beings.

I am heartbroken reading some of these responses. I have decided that I will admit to cheating, and take responsiblity for my actions. I don't know If it is the best course of action, but at this point I am not sure what to do except take the moral high road. I am a human being like the rest of you and made a tragic, terrible mistake. I will explain my situation to the academic conduct office and hopefully they go easy on me. I don't know what else to say. It is my dream to become a physician, I don't know what else I'm good for. And to think that this is the end of my dream is truly a depressing prospect

 

[Kochanie]

Hello everyone, I know I haven't responded for a while, and no, you haven't been "trolled".

I have gone through and read the responses in this thread, and it seems to be the general consensus that this doesn't wholly destroy my career, just prolongs my journey on to hopefully one day becoming a physician.

With that being said, the amount of generalizations made in this thread are discerning. I am not a terrible person, I volunteer regularly, donate to charity, and try and give back to society. I made a rash mistake, and I don't believe this makes me an unethical person who is unfit to provide healthcare and assisstance to my fellow human beings.

I am heartbroken reading some of these responses. I have decided that I will admit to cheating, and take responsiblity for my actions. I don't know If it is the best course of action, but at this point I am not sure what to do except take the moral high road. I am a human being like the rest of you and made a tragic, terrible mistake. I will explain my situation to the academic conduct office and hopefully they go easy on me. I don't know what else to say. It is my dream to become a physician, I don't know what else I'm good for. And to think that this is the end of my dream is truly a depressing prospect

Did you talk to your professor?

 

[Psai]

Hey op, I feel for you. Everyone makes mistakes in their lives and it's sad to see so many people willing to crucify someone over it. I understand the arguments people make and I agree that cheating is wrong. But the sad thing is that the consequences seem to be greater if you do something wrong and admit it. Since it seems you made it past this hurdle, just go with it. Just take the lesson from what you did and I hope you make it.

 

[throwawaycheater]

Did you talk to your professor?

No, but they have already reported me to the office of academic integrity, so now I have to meet with them (as opposed to meeting with the professor).

 

[candbgirl]

I thought you had a chance to meet with the professor first! What happened? How did it get kicked to Academic Affairs? That's too bad the professor didn't wait to talk to you.

 

[Visible Ghost]

Hello everyone, I know I haven't responded for a while, and no, you haven't been "trolled".

I have gone through and read the responses in this thread, and it seems to be the general consensus that this doesn't wholly destroy my career, just prolongs my journey on to hopefully one day becoming a physician.

With that being said, the amount of generalizations made in this thread are discerning. I am not a terrible person, I volunteer regularly, donate to charity, and try and give back to society. I made a rash mistake, and I don't believe this makes me an unethical person who is unfit to provide healthcare and assisstance to my fellow human beings.

I am heartbroken reading some of these responses. I have decided that I will admit to cheating, and take responsiblity for my actions. I don't know If it is the best course of action, but at this point I am not sure what to do except take the moral high road. I am a human being like the rest of you and made a tragic, terrible mistake. I will explain my situation to the academic conduct office and hopefully they go easy on me. I don't know what else to say. It is my dream to become a physician, I don't know what else I'm good for. And to think that this is the end of my dream is truly a depressing prospect

Check if there is a procedure to expunge the IA from your record (for good behavior) in 1 or 2 years. It is not the end of your dream! Make sure you get a great MCAT score!

 

[throwawaycheater]

I thought you had a chance to meet with the professor first! What happened? How did it get kicked to Academic Affairs? That's too bad the professor didn't wait to talk to you.

Nope, they didn't give me a chance to speak with them. I was sent an email from the office of academic integrity.

 

[candbgirl]

Oh. Good luck. Keep us posted!

 

[IlDestriero]

Nope, they didn't give me a chance to speak with them. I was sent an email from the office of academic integrity.

Sorry to read that. You're in a world of hurt now. You can remain optimistic, but it's time to start thinking about plan B, because plan A is going off the table for a while.

 

[Goro]

I strongly concur. An official IA for cheating will most likely be the end of your medical career, at least for 5-10 years.

Sorry to read that. You're in a world of hurt now. You can remain optimistic, but it's time to start thinking about plan B, because plan A is going off the table for a while.

 

[PlasticBag]

Good luck, OP, keep us posted. Ochem brings out the worst in us.

 

[sliceofbread136]

Check if there is a procedure to expunge the IA from your record (for good behavior) in 1 or 2 years. It is not the end of your dream! Make sure you get a great MCAT score!

I thought you were supposed to report expunged IAs too

 

[throwawaycheater]

I strongly concur. An official IA for cheating will most likely be the end of your medical career, at least for 5-10 years.

5-10 years?

 

[Dr Van Helsing]

If I were OP, I would keep trying to find a backdoor. You need to go to office hours and plead bef

The big issue is that lapses in character and professionalism are great predictors of troublesome behavior, such as falsifying records and billing fraud, down the road. Cheating takes a certain sort of person that values their own interests more than their integrity, and those people tend to continue to cheat throughout their lives. Medicine doesn't need those types, though we end up with many anyway, it still helps to weed one more of them out early on to protect the integrity of the profession.

If he cheats.... They'll all cheat. It'll be anarchy..

 

[bioman1275]

5-10 years?

he is an adcom, id imagine that he would know better than any of us.

In all honesty I could understand cheating on an exam that was full of weeder questions to lower the test average. It appears as though you cheated on a big concept you should have known from the class. for that I cannot say I would do the same.

For instance, when I was in Bio 2 our professor gave us like 6 questions on in depth statistical analysis on a quiz covering the cardiovascular system (the questions had nothing to do with the cardiovascular system) with the sole purpose to lower the quiz average. She did not cover any similar material prior to the quiz, so it was way out in left field. When word got out of the ridiculous questions people shared the answers, and I did not blame them. This while it is considered "cheating" I believe isn't inherently wrong.

Now when I was in my Gen Chem 2 class there was a guy who would pay a girl $40 per exam to write down the questions and multiple choice answers ( Edit: I should mention that all tests for this class were given in a testing center on campus during a 4 day testing period). Then, he would pay another $20 to a guy who was in inorganic chem and P chem to answer the questions. he would memorize the answers then take the exam and make a 100 then sell the test (with a few wrong answers) at $20 a piece to students (mostly attractive girls). This guy did way worse than you and got away scott free. This is also the worst case of cheating I have ever seen and is wrong on a whole another level. When asked about it, he would brag..

I mean he was the worse student. He made a D+ in bio 2, would mouth off to teachers, would brag about how he could make D's in science courses and still get into medical school because he "knew someone", he even tried to fight a TA in a chem lab because the TA made him redo an experiment.... I even saw him trade test answers to girls for their numbers.

That is what you're being lumped together with, and to them you are no better.

Also, no one cheats "just once" or "accidentally". Its like the whole "just the tip" scenario, it just doesn't work that way.

 

[choc_mint]

[QUOTE="bioman1275, post: 16022933,

Also, no one cheats "just once" or "accidentally". Its like the whole "just the tip" scenario, it just doesn't work that way.[/QUOTE]

Some people never learned from their mistake. In fact they don't even feel that what they did was wrong. Like the guy you just described.

OTH, some do learn and make it right. OP realize what he/she did was wrong and has made the right decision to own it like an adult. People tend to take lightly their mistakes when there's no consequences. Those that have to deal with the fall out, they learn and they become a better person.

I know a physician who has been in ad com for a med school for a long time. One time we were in a conversation with a premed student asking for advice for his upcoming interview. He only gave him one: "If you messed up, never try to cover it up nor justify it. Own it and tell us what you have learned and what steps have you taken to ensure you won't do the same mistake."

To OP, take courage. From what you wrote, I believe you have learned your lesson. I hope the best for you and that you'll come out of this a wiser person that have compassion for other people's shortcomings.

 

[brootas14]

I'm gonna call bs on a lot of what was said here after throwaway came back. 5-10 years is nonsense, especially if you redouble efforts to show that it was a momentary lapse in judgment and you understand the gravity of it. My IA was just over 4 years ago, and had I made some better choices in applying/writing, I probably could have gotten in a year or two ago.

"If you messed up, never try to cover it up nor justify it. Own it and tell us what you have learned and what steps have you taken to ensure you won't do the same mistake."

What he said is the absolute truth. The best course is to steer into this: volunteer for the Academic Affairs office, offer to speak to incoming freshmen, whatever you can do to come across as being beyond this type of behavior.

Overall, probably a bad idea to come back into this thread (on both your and my part), but I don't want to see someone else go down the same negative and depressive roads as I did.

 

[Meerkatology]

Anyone think about the fact that if he succeeds in begging for an F in the class instead of an IA... that med school interviews will likely ask him about how he got the F considering.. i'm assuming his other grades are likely A's and B's with that GPA?

What is he gonna say? Lie about it?

 

[touchpause13]

Anyone think about the fact that if he succeeds in begging for an F in the class instead of an IA... that med school interviews will likely ask him about how he got the F considering.. i'm assuming his other grades are likely A's and B's with that GPA?

What is he gonna say? Lie about it?

The truth- he didn't learn the material, but improved his study skills the second time around

 

[Goro]

My colleagues and I take cheating very seriously and we routinely reject applicants like the OP.

Yes, 5-10 years and I meant it. You need to show prolonged exemplary behavior that this was indeed a one time thing. Saying "sorry" and "I didn't mean to do it" like a 9 nine old doesn't wash with us.

As I and others have mentioned previously, there's a lot of evidence that dishonest doctors start out as dishonest students. My colleagues take professionalism very seriously. You made your bed and now lie in it. Actions have consequences. Even my kids get this notion.

I'm gonna call bs on a lot of what was said here after throwaway came back. 5-10 years is nonsense, especially if you redouble efforts to show that it was a momentary lapse in judgment and you understand the gravity of it. My IA was just over 4 years ago, and had I made some better choices in applying/writing, I probably could have gotten in a year or two ago.



What he said is the absolute truth. The best course is to steer into this: volunteer for the Academic Affairs office, offer to speak to incoming freshmen, whatever you can do to come across as being beyond this type of behavior.

Overall, probably a bad idea to come back into this thread (on both your and my part), but I don't want to see someone else go down the same negative and depressive roads as I did.

 

[rodmichael82]

5-10 years?

OP, I think Goro is being generous. I wouldn't be surprised if an IA for cheating kills your chances for at the very least 10 years. I don't even think 5 years will cut it when there are literally thousands of applicants applying for your 1 seat with better stats and nothing on their record (no IA).

OP, it breaks my heart because you made a mistake and we are all humans. I can sympathize with you and I really do wish you the best of luck. Unfortunately though medical schools will not feel the same way at all. This is an extremely big deal, I wish you could understand how much this is going to destroy your medical career.

 

[Donthangme]

May be somewhat off topic
I had a professor who loved to troll cheating premeds. First of all, he splits the class so ensure space between every person during tests. That means one section takes the test earlier and the other section later.

In one exam he includes 5 short answer questions worth 10 points in total. These short answer questions were pretty easy and represent pretty important facts directly from the lecture notes. It's obvious one section of students would do the test and give the answers to their friends in the second exam section. But he changed the questions completely and found out that almost 15 percent of the 2nd section had the short answer questions right.. but for the wrong section entirely. He could've reported 15 percent of the class immediately to judicial affairs but didnt and just laughed about it.

 

[Chansey]

This is anecdotal, but I have a friend who let another student copy his homework. They both got caught and ended up with IAs for academic dishonesty. He's actually doing extremely well this application cycle - over a dozen interviews. His GPA and MCAT are on the low side (especially for an ORM), but he has multiple publications and his research record is stellar. So it's possible to get a lot of interviews with an IA for cheating.

Please post back when he's accepted.

Update: This person just got accepted into a low-ranked MD/PhD program. (Rank 60+. Not an NIH-funded MSTP.) Said student also attended 10+ interviews, including at top 20s, so I suspect this will be the first in a string of acceptances for him.

Note: He let another student copy his homework, but during the disciplinary hearing they might have went with the story that they "collaborated too closely" without changing the wording in their assignments.

 

[Garurumon]

Update: This person just got accepted into a low-ranked MD/PhD program. (Rank 60+. Not an NIH-funded MSTP.) Said student also attended 10+ interviews, including at top 20s, so I suspect this will be the first in a string of acceptances for him.

Note: He let another student copy his homework, but during the disciplinary hearing they might have went with the story that they "collaborated too closely" without changing the wording in their assignments.

That's great to hear. Mistakes can be redeemed if you've got other things going for you to portray yourself in a better light. However, I doubt the OP will be that fortunate since getting a violation for cheating on an exam is much more severe, as opposed to cheating on homework.

 

[Gastrapathy]

It's not great to hear. It's a powerful illustration of why any act of dishonesty is taken seriously. He cheated, got caught and then lied to mitigate the damage.

 

[throwawaycheater]

Update on my situation....

After meeting with the conduct office, my teacher decided to take half off of my test score, giving me a C in the class. Apparently there will be no IA on my record, but schools will know a conduct infraction happened this semester? I am confused and need to find out more, but am glad there is no IA on my transcript.

 

[Psai]

hope you learned a lesson here op