Got in... with VR=5 twice in MCAT

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Desidoc2010

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Hello
I've heard that SDN threads can be depressing when you see ppl posting MCAT of 30, GPA 4.0 and then writing.. what are my chances... seriously?? Give me a break.

Well, if you're DO haters then you don't wanna go beyond this line.

MCAT = 21, VR = 5, Bio = 9, Chem = 7
MCAT = 25 VR = 5, Bio = 10, Chem = 10
GPA = 3.9
Good enough extra activities... nothing big some Deans certificates due to good gpa.
Graduated in 2010 with BS in Biology, chem minor


so above are my academic achievements which are very typical of any med student applying to MD or DO school in America.
I applied to 20 MD school and only 1 called me for the interview. For the sake of privacy I'll not name any specific universities, but the MD school I got interview at was due to State gov requiring the interviews for any in-state residents.

MD school WILL NOT take you if you have VR 5 or MCAT <28. Nowdays competition is tough and you gotta be real w/yourself.

Applied to 10 DO school and got interviewed at 7 diff schools mostly in Southern states. Got accepted by 2 schools.

I am posting this thread is because there are many hardworking students out there who wants to be a doc and wanna help the community. I was one of you with very little hope to even succeed in med school.
The MD doc who interviewed me said it to my face that "I'll fail medical school because it requires lots of reading and I'm just not ready for it yet. Please improve your english and reading skills and come back AFTER 2-3 YRS".
I was so sad by hearing this but I had to prove it to myself that VR section and ESL should not be the reasons for not getting in to med school. Yes, I read slow more like any normal person and do not have photographic memory. I have tendency to break it down what i read and make notes on the sides. You basically have no time to do this in MCAT. Hence, the reason... I couldn't bring up my score. I've been in US for past 12 yrs and speak, read, write perfectly fine. So ESL wasn't the problem at all... oh, well.. she just couldn't understand it... blahhh
I found out about DO programs and they are just like MDs. We have to take boards, exact same classes, materials, skills to handle patients.. every ****ing thing is the same. Plus you have to do 200 hrs of OMT and trust me... your patients will love it.

Today, I'm happy to announce that I've succeeded 2 yrs of Med school and I'm on top of my class. Yes, I had to struggle but I did it by passing Step 1 of my boards with decent grade all in one pass.
I waited for 2 yrs because before I tell you that yes with VR5 you can still succeed in med school, I had to prove it to myself and the others who judged me negatively based on stupid MCAT performance.

so to those who are feeling down and about to give up, if you truly love medical field and do not have preference for MD vs. DO then by all means apply to as many DO school as you can.. U will succeed regardless of what others tell you.

if you have further question regarding specific med schools i applied to or what i studied for MCAT you can email me: [email protected]

Follow your passion and do as best as you can. If you were meant to be a doctor you will become one.
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Congrats..?

But seriously, verbalfive at yahoo.com? email....?:confused:
 
OP probably just created it for people on SDN -- likely was still up for grabs. BTW, congrats. Keep up the good work. Definitely don't let a score dictate what you are capable of. Thanks for sharing your story. I think it would be helpful for others if you shared challenges you had in medical school and how you overcame those.
 
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Alejandro said:
Congrats..?

But seriously, verbalfive at yahoo.com? email....?:confused:
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Hahaha. Yeah, congrats. That's awesome. But you made me spit out my cereal at the email.
 
congrats but what is chem on the mcat? i didnt realize it was a separate section :p
 
I got above the avg on my COMLEX step 1. I'll take USMLE step 1 in dec.

your MCAT performance doesn't represent your success in med school. I think this was the whole point I was trying to make. If you get 45 on MCAT and don't know what to do when pt comes in blood in the urine.. then all the lawyers will be knocking on your doorstep.

The only darn reason MCAT is big is to break up the ties b/w all the typical med students.
 
Thank you all for your kind words. Many have emailed me and I hope I ans your qs.
Good luck everyone
 
Lots of people claiming to be #1 in their class lately.
 
Humm... I'm not sure why you made this comment.
And no.. I'm not on top of my class. I'm just like an avg medical student who works hard enough to stay on the top of everything or at least try to get above class avg in exams. And there ain't nothing wrong w/it

Anyways this post was specifically for those who are struggling to get into med school because of his/her low MCAT. All I'm wanna say is that there is a hope for everyone if you show the passion to become a doctor and are willing to work your ass off in med school.
 
Desidoc2010 said:
Humm... I'm not sure why you made this comment.
And no.. I'm not on top of my class. I'm just like an avg medical student who works hard enough to stay on the top of everything or at least try to get above class avg in exams. And there ain't nothing wrong w/it

Anyways this post was specifically for those who are struggling to get into med school because of his/her low MCAT. All I'm wanna say is that there is a hope for everyone if you show the passion to become a doctor and are willing to work your ass off in med school.
Click to expand...

thanks for your optimistic post. I am in a similar situation. Just sent you a message.
 
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Thanks for sharing your story, glad to hear everything worked out for you! It's always nice to see people on SDN providing words of encouragement to others.

The only thing I worry about is outliers who are unique providing "false hope" for people who are truly not cut out for medicine. That may or may not be the case here, I'm just saying in general it is something to look out for.

Congrats on achieving your dreams though!
 
Desidoc2010 said:
if you have further question regarding specific med schools i applied to or what i studied for MCAT you can email me: [email protected]
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Given your MCAT score, it's more likely people will email you to find out what NOT to study. Clearly your approach did not work.

Also, the average Black osteopathic student has a 22 MCAT, so the OP's story is not terribly unusual.
 
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I know Touro states they don't care about the verbal section so it's possible. But realistically a 5 is not going to cut it these days.
 
serenade said:
I know Touro states they don't care about the verbal section so it's possible. But realistically a 5 is not going to cut it these days.
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A DO matriculant has an average VR score of 8.7. The SD is 1.7. So yes a 5 is not desirable but it's not a deal-breaker.
 
McPhee said:
A DO matriculant has an average VR score of 8.7. The SD is 1.7. So yes a 5 is not desirable but it's not a deal-breaker.
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A 5 in VR is a deal breaker now...If it was in PS, I think it would have been ok since physics should not even be tested in the MCAT IMO.
 
McPhee said:
Given your MCAT score, it's more likely people will email you to find out what NOT to study. Clearly your approach did not work.

Also, the average Black osteopathic student has a 22 MCAT, so the OP's story is not terribly unusual.
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I have a hard time believing these stats for AA. But if they are true, I am OK with it since it might work in my favor.
 
Temperature101 said:
A 5 in VR is a deal breaker now...If it was in PS, I think it would have been ok since physics should not even be tested in the MCAT IMO.
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While I agree ( I cannot stand math), PS is decently correlated with board score, at least in contrast to verbal. But that being said, it shouldn't be difficult to get an 8 on verbal with a decent amount of studying.
 
McPhee said:
Given your MCAT score, it's more likely people will email you to find out what NOT to study. Clearly your approach did not work.

Also, the average Black osteopathic student has a 22 MCAT, so the OP's story is not terribly unusual.
Click to expand...

we don't know if the OP is black or urm. of course if he was then that would be a significant factor.
 
Desidoc2010 said:
Humm... I'm not sure why you made this comment.
And no.. I'm not on top of my class. I'm just like an avg medical student who works hard enough to stay on the top of everything or at least try to get above class avg in exams. And there ain't nothing wrong w/it

Anyways this post was specifically for those who are struggling to get into med school because of his/her low MCAT. All I'm wanna say is that there is a hope for everyone if you show the passion to become a doctor and are willing to work your ass off in med school.
Click to expand...

I think MedPR was referrring to your statement toward the bottom of your first post
Desidoc2010 said:
...and I'm on top of my class.
Click to expand...

Either way, not a major point. Congratulations on your success! :thumbup:
 
Whiteshoes said:
we don't know if the OP is black or urm. of course if he was then that would be a significant factor.
Click to expand...

Just my two cents, but if OP's username is Desidoc, I would assume he is desi or Pakistani, Indian, Bangladeshi, as I believe that is what constitutes "desi." sorry for any cultural inaccuracies!
 
I think the OP meant "on top of" as in "handling", not "best in the class".

As in, hey man, can you make me some sandwiches? Sure buddy, I'm on top of it

not I am the top sandwich maker in California
 
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Desidoc2010 said:
your MCAT performance doesn't represent your success in med school. I think this was the whole point I was trying to make. If you get 45 on MCAT and don't know what to do when pt comes in blood in the urine.. then all the lawyers will be knocking on your doorstep.

The only darn reason MCAT is big is to break up the ties b/w all the typical med students.
Click to expand...

If there isn't a correlation between MCAT score and performance in med school, why do adcoms continue to weight it so heavily in the admissions process? I don't think you are giving enough credit to the AAMC; they spend a lot of time designing/tweaking the MCAT to be representative of potential success in med school (specifically USMLE Step 1). I think I've even read that Verbal scores correlate most strongly with Step 1 performance.

You may be doing well after scoring poorly on VR, but most people who score a 5 on multiple attempts likely won't do so great. It's ridiculous to state that the MCAT is only used to separate similar applicants; what's the point of a test meant to separate applicants if it doesn't have some sort of predictive capacity? Why don't med schools just accept GRE scores if all they wanted to do was separate applicants? The people who design the MCAT are not as dumb as you think.
 
grapepopsicle said:
If there isn't a correlation between MCAT score and performance in med school, why do adcoms continue to weight it so heavily in the admissions process? I don't think you are giving enough credit to the AAMC; they spend a lot of time designing/tweaking the MCAT to be representative of potential success in med school (specifically USMLE Step 1). I think I've even read that Verbal scores correlate most strongly with Step 1 performance.

You may be doing well after scoring poorly on VR, but most people who score a 5 on multiple attempts likely won't do so great. It's ridiculous to state that the MCAT is only used to separate similar applicants; what's the point of a test meant to separate applicants if it doesn't have some sort of predictive capacity? Why don't med schools just accept GRE scores if all they wanted to do was separate applicants? The people who design the MCAT are not as dumb as you think.
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Thanks for this! And I've def read too from reliable sources that verbal scores correlate with USMLE step 1 scores. OP may be an outlier, which is great for him/her, but others shouldn't be misled that they will also do well in med school with such a low verbal score.
 
Mosa said:
Thanks for this! And I've def read too from reliable sources that verbal scores correlate with USMLE step 1 scores. OP may be an outlier, which is great for him/her, but others shouldn't be misled that they will also do well in med school with such a low verbal score.
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Predictive capacity of verbal is significantly less than that of BS and PS. However I believe there are somethings that verbal is correlated with, however I don't remember what.
 
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Temperature101 said:
I wonder what is the attrition rate for AA...
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The most recent data shows that Black/AA medical students, on average, take longer to complete medical school; fewer than 60% of Black/AA students complete medical school in four years. Additionally, Black/AA medical students drop out for academic reasons at rate seven to ten times higher than their White and Asian peers.
 
McPhee said:
The most recent data shows that Black/AA medical students, on average, take longer to complete medical school; fewer than 60% of Black/AA students complete medical school in four years. Additionally, Black/AA medical students drop out for academic reasons at rate seven to ten times higher than their White and Asian peers.
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Can you share these data?
 
OK guys.. some of you are way off...
first of all.. no i'm not the person whose misguiding others... yes getting into med school with VR 5 was tough. No MD schools asked me for an interview. So yes.. VR score does make a diff when applying to MD school because of their data/survey/mentality that with poor VR you'll not make through USMLE step 1. The reality is that not even a single qustion is as long as one verbal passage. They may be 5-6 sentences (some may have additional lab values) and go fig out what's the ans. If u r not aware of the question stem then just try taking a sample tests available online... u'll know...

I personally don't think VR = 5 held me back any how... yes.. initially there were many medical terminology that i didn't know but that was 95% of my class. We all ended up googling basic terminology/ dx process/ treatment etc to get the basic understanding.
This is where reading passages come in... since Med school requires so much reading in the 1st place they look at your VR score and fig out where you stand when comes down to gaining max amnt from one time reading the given info. Yes.. to study for both USMLE + comlex... you'll go through 4 diff books (First aid, goljan, savarese OMT book, First aid OMT book, any pharm book, and additional books if u taking kaplan classes). so if you have 2 months of free time to read >4 books... how much can you grasp... retain... spit it out during exam... the med school will judge you based on this reality.

My true problem for reading is that I read slow and tend to break it down to digest it. Once i have it fig out.. i'll retain it for a long time.. well... i simply didn't have time for it in MCAT. so yes.. i took KAPLAN classes, did multiple practice tests... but all of a sudden i just couldn't change my reading habit. i did try but bad luck on my side. but... didn't stop me there.. i applied to many DO school and with my hard work, passion, and determination I got wat I wanted..
 
yes I'm asian just in case you are wondering...
Idk how many of you got med school interviews but they don't give a bloody damn about your racial profile.
don't follow the statistics if you're a minority. Cultural diversity is your bonus point but dude... better have additional important background support like GPA, EC, MCAT, either MS/BS degrees.
 
McPhee said:
The most recent data shows that Black/AA medical students, on average, take longer to complete medical school; fewer than 60% of Black/AA students complete medical school in four years. Additionally, Black/AA medical students drop out for academic reasons at rate seven to ten times higher than their White and Asian peers.
Click to expand...

Source? I've heard that most AA matriculates usually graduate and manage to push through medical school without much complication.
 
DesiDoc, I agree with you, and I applaud your advice for people who didn't perform well in the MCAT. However, I don't want to sound rude/jerk, but if someone didn't do so well in the MCAT and in college, what makes you so sure that the same person would do well in medical school and USMLE? The latter is much harder and requires much more effort to succeed, and the MCAT and college GPA are supposed to be the most basic thing in the medical career. Could you please tell me your feedback? (Anyone who doesn't agree with my view can also post here. I would like to know your opinion).

(Note: I meant for both MD and DO.)
 
Agent B said:
DesiDoc, I agree with you, and I applaud your advice for people who didn't perform well in the MCAT. However, I don't want to sound rude/jerk, but if someone didn't do so well in the MCAT and in college, what makes you so sure that the same person would do well in medical school and USMLE? The latter is much harder and requires much more effort to succeed, and the MCAT and college GPA are supposed to be the most basic thing in the medical career. Could you please tell me your feedback? (Anyone who doesn't agree with my view can also post here. I would like to know your opinion).

(Note: I meant for both MD and DO.)
Click to expand...

because beyond the point of 26, mcat doesnt predict anything about future tests. What seems like basic stuff to us now for the MCAT, will be the same way when were in med school taking the step 1...I hate when people compare the usmle and mcat, I know people that thought step 1 was easier.
 
what DO school? I can't imagine it was one of the better ones...
 
Agent B said:
DesiDoc, I agree with you, and I applaud your advice for people who didn't perform well in the MCAT. However, I don't want to sound rude/jerk, but if someone didn't do so well in the MCAT and in college, what makes you so sure that the same person would do well in medical school and USMLE? The latter is much harder and requires much more effort to succeed, and the MCAT and college GPA are supposed to be the most basic thing in the medical career. Could you please tell me your feedback? (Anyone who doesn't agree with my view can also post here. I would like to know your opinion).

(Note: I meant for both MD and DO.)
Click to expand...



I personally didn't think my first 2 yrs and taking COMLEX step 1 are equivalent to my performance in MCAT. I still believe that MCAT and success as medical student has no core relationship. It's all about you and how much you're willing to put in.
Many medical students agreed with the above sentence. It's a whole new level of education. Yes, you learn about mitosis/meiosis in undergrad and asked question in MCAT. Well, when I took my OBGYN class in year 2, no one talked about this bio process. You go beyond it and start learning about disease process/treatments... the actual stuff that your patients care about.
When a woman is 22 wks pregnant and start bleeding with NO Pain or With Pain... what is your next step??
When you have sore throat, how do you decide whether it's viral or bacterial. What other factors do you look for before giving medication?

Do you think your performance in verbal section represent how to ans above questions? I don't think so... Yes, your performance in science classes in undergrad, your basic understanding/foundations... all is important because once u r in med school u r expected to know your biology hard core... (no one will ever ask you to calculate the projectile velocity of the tennis ball). (you'll be asked what to do next when a young boy got hit by the ball and has hemorrhagic conjunctivitis) ;)
 
There appears to be some confusion in this thread. Consider the following:

Fact #1: The MCAT is the single best predictor of academic performance in medical school.

Sources: University of Michigan Medical school, http://www.ceousa.org/attachments/article/543/UMichMed_final.pdf; AAMC, https://camcom.ngu.edu/Science/ScienceClub/Shared%20Documents/MCAT%20Interpretive%20Manual.pdf


Fact #2: The MCAT is an "impressive" predictor of USMLE Step 1 performance. The MCAT is also a strong predictor of Step 2 and Step 3 performance

Sources: AAMC, http://www.mmc.edu/sacsqep/07. Vali... fo predicting medical school performance.PDF; AAMC, https://camcom.ngu.edu/Science/ScienceClub/Shared Documents/MCAT Interpretive Manual.pdf


Fact #3: Black/ AA medical students, on the whole, have the lowest MCAT scores of any racial or ethnic group. Black/ AA MD students have an average MCAT score of 26.3. Black/ AA DO students have an average MCAT score of 22.3.

Sources: AAMC, https://www.aamc.org/download/161696/data/table19.pdf; AACOMAS, http://www.aacom.org/data/applicantsmatriculants/Documents/2011Matriculantsummary.pdf


Fact #4: URM medical students earn lower overall grades in medical school.

Source: University of Nebraska - Lincoln, http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/dissertations/AAI3176805/


Fact #5: Black/ AA medical students drop out for academic reasons at a rate seven to ten times higher than their Asian and White peers. This dropout rate is the highest among all racial and ethnic groups.

Source: AAMC, https://www.aamc.org/download/102346/data/aibvol7no2.pdf


Fact #6: Black/ AA medical students, on average, take longer to complete medical school. 56.8% of Black/ AA medical students complete medical school in four years. Fewer than 80% of Black/ AA medical students have completed medical school by year five. 88.2% of Black/ AA medical students have finished medical school by year ten. In contrast, approximately 85% of White medical students finish medical school in four years, and over 90% finish in five years.

Source: AAMC, https://www.aamc.org/download/102346/data/aibvol7no2.pdf


Fact #7: When USMLE Step 1 scores are used for screening, Black/AA residency applicants are three to six times less likely to receive an interview.

Source: AAMC, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11739053


Fact #8: Among all racial groups, Black/ AA takers of the NBME Part 1 examination score the lowest.

Source: JAMA, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7710487?dopt=Abstract
 
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lol@OP

I love it when people get pissed off when they receive even the slightest criticism :)
 
@mcPhee and @ notbobtrustme

Let me know when you get into med school and how you do in your step 1. Then compare your med student life/experiences with that data/survey results.
All I can say is that if you're 100% determined to become a doctor regardless of any obstacles then show it. Show your passion and determination to beat the odds. I was rejected by ~20 MD schools. I could have given up and tried for next year cycle but I took a risk and applied to few DO schools as I didn't want to give up so easily. I knew it's gonna be challenging and almost every day I felt like I should not try at all. Pick a diff career or apply next year. But I took a risk and applied to DO schools at the last min. Many of my frnds laughed at me when I told them my score and crazy enough to go against the odds. But regardless of all that... I did it. DO school faculties saw my positive attitude and determination through personal statement and interviews.
In total of 7 DO schools called me for the interviews, I gave only 2 interviews (mostly because I blew up $$$ for MD secondaries apps and lack of responses) and luckily both DO schools accepted me.

@ bigbluebear: No I'm not hurt by any criticism as I was expecting it in the 1st place. but at the same time many of you emailed me and I replied to all. Hope it helped.
 
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