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you could do a lab thesis in 1 if you wanted to
GPA enhancement programs: SMPs, postbacs et al...June 2009 List
- Thread starter DrMidlife
- Start date
in theory and yes if you already have established research going on. But depends on what track you do, how much time you have based on how you spread out your credits, etc.
Most of the advisors tell you not to even think about research til end of the 1 year. at least mine did. But I know people in the boston area who've been established or had established research elsewhere where they had permission to use that work for a thesis are at a higher advantage to do that.
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Im at Penn and theres Core studies - people who has never taken science courses... and Special Science studies - people take more science courses to enhance their application (cGPA and sciGPA).
I am in core, but reading this about SMP... is this same as SSP (Special Science Program) at Penn?
I am in core, but reading this about SMP... is this same as SSP (Special Science Program) at Penn?
SSP is a postbac not an SMP. SMP are medical school courses. SSP is postbac higher level science courses but are undergrad not graduate level courses.
are SMPs in linkage schools only good for the schools they are linked to? If I apply to Drexel SMP could I get in to a different medical school that isnt Drexel? Will they take my app seriously? if i do well of course
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Same21 - yes, they'll take your app seriously depending on the program you are in and how well you do in it
Yes but after the things I've read on here I'd not go to Drexel SMP if you could get into Gtown, BU, EVMS, RFU, Cincy, Tufts etc.
But that's just my opinion.
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Quick question,
Are SMP's still a good choice even if your undergraduate major was in science? Just curious. I had a 2.9 uGPA (science major) and now I am on my 3rd semester at HES with a 3.7 and hoping to end with 3.8. Once completed there, I plan on applying to SMP's. Sound alright? Any advice would be great! Thanks so much...
Are SMP's still a good choice even if your undergraduate major was in science? Just curious. I had a 2.9 uGPA (science major) and now I am on my 3rd semester at HES with a 3.7 and hoping to end with 3.8. Once completed there, I plan on applying to SMP's. Sound alright? Any advice would be great! Thanks so much...
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Undergrad major doesn't matter. The point of an SMP is to demonstrate, by taking med school classes graded against med students, that you are med school material, despite a weak undergrad performance.
In your shoes, with a strong showing at HES, I'd apply to med school this June and be thinking of an SMP as a backup.
Best of luck to you.
You show an upper trend which will help your favor but it is still dependent on what your mcat score is for the programs that require MCAT and do not let you substitute with GRE or GRE or MCAT score in case of the remainder of the programs.
Also, it depends on how many credits of upper level and years. 1 year of a strong upper trend is one thing, but it would take usually 2 years or more to show them you are the real deal. Also, the extent of how high your MCAT score is or isn't affects your chances of both MD admissions and SMP admissions. A program like Gtown SMP is more competitive to get into and with a lower GPA may require 32+ for your MCAT score whereas you could possibly get into say BU MAMS in your current city with a 29 though may have to retake later for med admissions.
you have not given us the other details to determine better chances.
Edit: I saw you said 3rd semester at HES but what does that mean in terms of credits? There is a difference between doing 30 credits within a period of 3 semesters and doing say 18 credit hours worth per each semester to get close to 50+ credits.
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Hey gujuDoc,
I graduated with a 2.86 uGPA. I work full-time in a clinical lab, so I only take 8 credits per semester. My plan is to finish with 32 credits at HES with a 3.8 post-bacc GPA. I also have been shadowing ER doctors along with my work and classes. I have other extra curr., but I feel I should deal with numbers for now.
I have not taken the MCAT yet, and certainly will not say: "I plan on getting a 35", because I just don't know. However, I do feel I will do well.
After the my post-bacc work and MCAT, I planned on applying to SMP programs. Then eventually med school.
I've thought of taking more courses than 32 credits worth, but I figured an SMP would be a quicker route.
Let me know what you think? I appreciate your time.
I graduated with a 2.86 uGPA. I work full-time in a clinical lab, so I only take 8 credits per semester. My plan is to finish with 32 credits at HES with a 3.8 post-bacc GPA. I also have been shadowing ER doctors along with my work and classes. I have other extra curr., but I feel I should deal with numbers for now.
I have not taken the MCAT yet, and certainly will not say: "I plan on getting a 35", because I just don't know. However, I do feel I will do well.
After the my post-bacc work and MCAT, I planned on applying to SMP programs. Then eventually med school.
I've thought of taking more courses than 32 credits worth, but I figured an SMP would be a quicker route.
Let me know what you think? I appreciate your time.
Ok with that knowledge now, I'd say go ahead and apply to a SMP if you don' want to do another year of SMP. And yes MCAT score would make all the difference. Try to aim 30+, at the bare minimum if you are fine retaking later try for 28 or 29, but 32+ would be more ideal. if you can do that you have a shot at some SMP though I will not be quick to say where. I will say this though I always tell people that ify ou are going to apply to SMPs apply to BU, Tufts, EVMS, Gtown, UCincy, and RFU. those are the best ones not in any particular order. And you are already in boston which may work in your favor possibly for the Boston programs.
Oh and for the boston programs and Gtown you could get away with taking GRE and doing MCAT later esp. if you plan on applying post doing the program rather then while in the program.
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gujuDoc or others - Do you have a take on the Drexel IMS program? It's absent from your list? I've seen some bashing of it, but also heard good too.
Thanks,
Buck
Thanks,
Buck
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I wouldnt go to Drexel if you paid me to go to Drexel.
Heard nothing but negative things about it - if im going to spend a ton of $$ and a year of my life, and potentially use my last opportunity to improve my med school app - its going to be a solid place, with a solid hx
Heard nothing but negative things about it - if im going to spend a ton of $$ and a year of my life, and potentially use my last opportunity to improve my med school app - its going to be a solid place, with a solid hx
I'm with Robflanker, I have not heard anything good. The only reason iapplied last year was because I was being pushed to since my bro lived in Delaware and it was cheaper. But Dr.Midlife said it right when she said it is like the walmart of SMPs. haha.
It is an older SMP slightly younger then Gtown and slightly older then BU MAMS but it is not nearly as reputable as either of those two. I'd rather go to one of the newer ones then Drexel because there are so many stipulations I've heard on here that they don't advertise about for the automatic interview, such a small number seem to be getting into drexel IMS and even the overall getting into med school somewhere is lower the at other schoos based on the stats on their website. They do not offer you a degree for doing IMS, just a certificate whereas other programs will award you a MS degree. And ifyou want the MS degree you get t waste another year and more coursework there to get it.
Drexel as a school has nowhere near the reputation and name as Gtown or Bu or Tufts nor the high linkage of RFU or EVMS. Cincy is also better up there then Drexel. In all, I was not given a good impression of Drexel from what I read on SDN at all or when I saw the facilities. You don't get access to the professsors one on one where you do at other programs except through email, you don't get to go to the same campus as the med students are at, the support is much less. So yeah I'm not a fan of a it. And I know people on here for the most part seem to be unsatisfied with the program.
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Thanks for your assessment. I have also read about all of the issues that you've cited. To play a little devil's advocate, I'll make a few points. I do this because I've been accepted to the program, and I have apps pending at G'town, Tufts, and BU. Thus, I may need to make a key decision down the road.
- The point made that concerns me the most is the potential embellishment of any med school acceptance statistics. As best as I can tell, a very high percentage (ca. 90%) of people do go on to med school. The question is, where? I get the sense that a lot of people go to D.O. programs and maybe a few to the carib. I am not necessarily fixed on allo or osteo so I can handle this.
- The only significant stipulation I've heard re the automatic interview is in regards to MCAT section scores. I believe you need to have a 9 or better in each section, and that you probably need a 30 or better to get in. Is this consistent with what everyone else has heard? Am I missing something else here?
- I am not overly concerned about access to profs, facilities, getting an MS, etc. I just need the best opportunity to post solid grades in tough classes for a year and a committee letter so I can get in somewhere for fall '11. My impression is that I can accomplish this in the IMS program, but it might be somewhat easier or more enjoyable in a different program.
Does anyone think that the program cannot meet my stripped down needs? This is important, because should I not get in elsewhere (a real possibility), then I have to make an even tougher choice, and that is do I go at all?
Thanks again,
Buck
- The point made that concerns me the most is the potential embellishment of any med school acceptance statistics. As best as I can tell, a very high percentage (ca. 90%) of people do go on to med school. The question is, where? I get the sense that a lot of people go to D.O. programs and maybe a few to the carib. I am not necessarily fixed on allo or osteo so I can handle this.
- The only significant stipulation I've heard re the automatic interview is in regards to MCAT section scores. I believe you need to have a 9 or better in each section, and that you probably need a 30 or better to get in. Is this consistent with what everyone else has heard? Am I missing something else here?
- I am not overly concerned about access to profs, facilities, getting an MS, etc. I just need the best opportunity to post solid grades in tough classes for a year and a committee letter so I can get in somewhere for fall '11. My impression is that I can accomplish this in the IMS program, but it might be somewhat easier or more enjoyable in a different program.
Does anyone think that the program cannot meet my stripped down needs? This is important, because should I not get in elsewhere (a real possibility), then I have to make an even tougher choice, and that is do I go at all?
Thanks again,
Buck
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I dont think the grades you'd get at an SMP as bad as Drexels would get you the bang for the buck you want.
If you get in nowhere, you go to Drexel. If you get in anywhere else, you go there. IMO
If you get in nowhere, you go to Drexel. If you get in anywhere else, you go there. IMO
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Drexel is an SMP that has no reputation of turning 3.0/30 candidates into MDs at schools other than Drexel. So if you're willing to do Drexel MD or DO, then it's fine.
Also, keep in mind that the 3.0/30 candidate pool is probably the bottom 25% of an SMP class.
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Good feedback from all. Thanks! I wouldn't expect much from a 3.0 SMP either. Thinking more like 3.7 and 30-32.
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By "3.0/30" I'm referring to the undergrad package brought into an SMP.
Put everything you've got into your MCAT score - it's the one critical number that's still under your control.
I agree with the part of the post I quoted above and this is evidenced by all that has been written on these forums by former Drexel IMSers who were displeased with the program. I wouldn't put it out as your first choice if you get in the other ones i saw that you have applied to.
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Guys, I'm trying to apply to MAMS for Boston U. but on the login page of the embark online application it reads:
THERE WILL BE NO OPEN ENROLLMENT FOR THE MASTER OF ARTS IN MEDICAL SCIENCES DEGREE PROGRAM FOR JANUARY 2010. IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN APPLYING TO THE MASTER OF ARTS IN MEDICAL SCIENCES CONCENTRATION IN ORAL HEALTH SCIENCES PROGRAM, PLEASE MAIL THE DENTAL ADMISSIONS TEST (DAT) TO THE DIVISION OF GRADUATE MEDICAL SCIENCES OFFICE. AT THIS TIME, YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO REPORT YOUR DAT ON THE ONLINE APPLICATION. THANK YOU.
Can someone explain to me what this means? Does this mean I have to wait until february to start my application or does it mean that you need to meet certain requirements to apply for BU MAMS?
Thanks.
THERE WILL BE NO OPEN ENROLLMENT FOR THE MASTER OF ARTS IN MEDICAL SCIENCES DEGREE PROGRAM FOR JANUARY 2010. IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN APPLYING TO THE MASTER OF ARTS IN MEDICAL SCIENCES CONCENTRATION IN ORAL HEALTH SCIENCES PROGRAM, PLEASE MAIL THE DENTAL ADMISSIONS TEST (DAT) TO THE DIVISION OF GRADUATE MEDICAL SCIENCES OFFICE. AT THIS TIME, YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO REPORT YOUR DAT ON THE ONLINE APPLICATION. THANK YOU.
Can someone explain to me what this means? Does this mean I have to wait until february to start my application or does it mean that you need to meet certain requirements to apply for BU MAMS?
Thanks.
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This pertains to people who wanted to start in January. I think they allow people to matriculate in the Spring and Fall semesters. They are accepting applications for Fall 2010.
Hope that helps.
- Buck
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Ah OK thanks! Scared me a bit. =)
Nevermind, I just reread your post.
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Hey Guys!
I have a question...I live in California and I was wondering about applying to the UC Post Bacs. I applied to 3 SMP's (Gtown, EVMS, Univ of Cinn).
My question: What is the difference between the California Post Bacs and, say, Gtown or Univ Cinn SMP's?
thanks!
I have a question...I live in California and I was wondering about applying to the UC Post Bacs. I applied to 3 SMP's (Gtown, EVMS, Univ of Cinn).
My question: What is the difference between the California Post Bacs and, say, Gtown or Univ Cinn SMP's?
thanks!
Post bac is classes that boost your ugrad GPA. SMPs are MS programs in which you take the equivalent of first year medical school courses either by taking them with the med students or with a curriculum that is equivalent to the med student classes, the latter of which is the case at BU and Tufts. so the point is either way they are medical school year 1 courses.
Dr.Midlife always puts it well when she says SMP is essentially an audition for medical school but it doesn't change your ugrad GPA. it is a separate grad GPA.
Post bac will boost your ugrad GPA but it is not medical school courses.
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The UC postbacs were created and are sustained by the state of California to increase minority enrollment in the UC med schools. They take only about 15 students per campus, are very cheap, and are a structured and supported curriculum for disadvantaged applicants. They start with MCAT prep. Non-disadvantaged students occasionally get in. Same is basically true of all the programs in what I called category 5. See the UC postbac threads in this forum from the past few years for how their admissions play out.
A traditional SMP, such as Gtown, Cincinnati, EVMS, etc. (category 1) can be thought of more as a money maker for the host school, where as many more students as can fit into the med school classrooms are added to the first year class list for the cost of administrative overhead. What the student gets is effectively an audition for med school, for the cost of an additional year of med school - you can look at doing an SMP as doing med school on the five year plan. It's a pretty sweet arrangement, imho. Better SMPs grade the SMP students against the med school students, and aggressively support the SMP students in attempts to get into their home state schools, in addition to offering extra support in getting SMP students into the SMP host school. In my mind, you do an SMP when there's nothing else you can do: your MCAT score and your entire app package are solid, with the sole exception of an undergrad GPA that isn't competitive.
Best of luck to you.
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Thanks DrMidlife! You and Guju are a great help and I appreciate your guy's assistance.
Since I applied to the three aforementioned SMP's, I'll see how those play out. I already received and "App Complete" Email from Gtown and EVMS. I took my mcat and earned a 27 so I am planning on retaking the test on the 30th of Jan (in about a week or so) and my averages on my practice AAMC's are about 32-34, but we'll see how it goes. Ill also apply to the Cali Post bacs, and see how that plays out as well.
If it helps, my overall application would be as follows: 3.34 cGPA, 3.2 BCPM, 3 years biomed research, 1.5 years volunteer at an ER. Of course there still is the essay's, and other extra work too, but that is the gist of it.
Again, you're help is very much appreciated. And thanks for typing up that long post for me
Thanks DrMidlife! You and Guju are a great help and I appreciate your guy's assistance.
Since I applied to the three aforementioned SMP's, I'll see how those play out. I already received and "App Complete" Email from Gtown and EVMS. I took my mcat and earned a 27 so I am planning on retaking the test on the 30th of Jan (in about a week or so) and my averages on my practice AAMC's are about 32-34, but we'll see how it goes. Ill also apply to the Cali Post bacs, and see how that plays out as well.
If it helps, my overall application would be as follows: 3.34 cGPA, 3.2 BCPM, 3 years biomed research, 1.5 years volunteer at an ER. Of course there still is the essay's, and other extra work too, but that is the gist of it.
Again, you're help is very much appreciated. And thanks for typing up that long post for me
If you retake the MCAT this month or before April and update them at Gtown and get a stronger course you still have a chance to get in even if you are put on a hold/waiting list. Just thought I'd put that in there. So update schools with your new MCAT when you get it.
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I am a little nervous about not getting in anywhere.
I have applied to a ton of med schools which are not coming through at all. So the plan B are SMPs/post-bacc.
I have a 3.12 GPA and a 30M MCAT. I also have two years of research at UCSF and a few years of volunteering
I applied to
Loyola
GTown
Boston
Tulane
U Penn
Rosalind Franklin
Realistically what are my chances of getting in to some of these programs.
And which of these would anyone recomend?
Thanks for the help
I have applied to a ton of med schools which are not coming through at all. So the plan B are SMPs/post-bacc.
I have a 3.12 GPA and a 30M MCAT. I also have two years of research at UCSF and a few years of volunteering
I applied to
Loyola
GTown
Boston
Tulane
U Penn
Rosalind Franklin
Realistically what are my chances of getting in to some of these programs.
And which of these would anyone recomend?
Thanks for the help
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How come you didn't apply to EVMS? Tulane's SMP is only their ACP program which you can get into only if you've gotten a waitlist somewhere DO or MD.
By Boston do you mean MAMS at BU or Tufts MBS or both? you stand a shot at all of the programs you listed. RFU is more linkage based like EVMS. You should also apply to UCincy MS in Physio. That's the next big thing as far as SMPs outside of Bu and Gtown and EVMS.
UPenn SSP is a postbac but I think you have a good shot there but between a choice between that and SMP you need to decide between what you want i.e. to take med classes and do a proper SMP or do a postbac. Both are good options and UPenn SSP is probably cheaper. Some people opted out of BU MAMS for that reason and went to UPenn SSP.
I think you have a fair shot with your numbers of getting into the programs. I think Gtown is probably the most well known followed by BU MAMS but UCincy is fast gaining reputation and EVMS and RFU are really good linkage wise. Tufts MBS is an upcoming program too but still relatively new and no one really knows what their stats are in terms of people getting in and where so that's why a lot of people opt not to go there when brought down to the choice as happened with many of my BU classmates.
You stand a fair shot but its tough to say which one will take you. Of the ones out of those that I applied to I'd say Gtown was the most competitive.
But I only applied to 2 of the ones you applied to and all the other ones I listed.
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How about the loyla program?
Isnt that a linked one year master prgram like RFU and BU. They say they give interviews to those who perform well.
I would think a Linked SMP would be a better option as opposed to a post bacc.
Which option is more adventageuos interms of matriculating into a good med school?
thanks
Isnt that a linked one year master prgram like RFU and BU. They say they give interviews to those who perform well.
I would think a Linked SMP would be a better option as opposed to a post bacc.
Which option is more adventageuos interms of matriculating into a good med school?
thanks
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Cali - if I were you, i would do an SMP not a post-bac.
I chose a post-bac (UPenn over BU, Tufts, UMDNJ) as I could significantly raise my GPA taking my UG credits. You should calculate how much you could raise your GPA by say a year of 4.0. I don't tihnk it'll be that much but you should do the math.
An SMP i think represents the better plan
I chose a post-bac (UPenn over BU, Tufts, UMDNJ) as I could significantly raise my GPA taking my UG credits. You should calculate how much you could raise your GPA by say a year of 4.0. I don't tihnk it'll be that much but you should do the math.
An SMP i think represents the better plan
BU like Gtown does not have a high linkage rate though it has a right of getting people in somewhere. EVMS or RFU are your best bets for strong linkage programs i.e. that are linked to the hosting school. Loyola is also a good option for such I suppose. A lot of people don't like it because it is not necessarily at the med school and some don't consider it a real SMP. But it looks like a solid program.
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Thanks you so much for all the advice and help. It is so nice to have this kind of support.
I am begging to fully understand the optionsin front of me and am going for an actual SMP, although Loyola is not considered by all to be one its at the top of my list due to the fact that is is one of my top choice med schools,
so linkage or not it can't hurt my chances of getting in there.
Although BU and Gtown are strong contenders
this of course is assuming I get in to some of them
thanks again for all your help!
I am begging to fully understand the optionsin front of me and am going for an actual SMP, although Loyola is not considered by all to be one its at the top of my list due to the fact that is is one of my top choice med schools,
so linkage or not it can't hurt my chances of getting in there.
Although BU and Gtown are strong contenders
this of course is assuming I get in to some of them
thanks again for all your help!
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One other thing to keep in mind, if your hopes are pinned on getting into a UC, I recommend looking for individuals who have gotten into a UC from an SMP and getting them to tell you their stats.
I'm skeptical that the garden variety 3.0-ish GPA, <30 MCAT applicant who succeeds in an SMP has much luck getting into UCs. The competition is just too extreme for one year of strong academic performance in a fairly unknown environment (no SMPs are closer than Loyola, other than DO programs) to change your odds much.
From another thread it looks like you're doing additional undergrad at Berkeley, correct? Any improvement on your undergrad GPA is a good idea. Getting a stellar MCAT score on a retake would also be key. And, all the above said, I still think an SMP would be beneficial to you, and Loyola is as well known as any SMP at the UCs.
Lastly, and again, I'm focusing on your odds of getting into a UC, go ahead and apply to the UC postbacs whether or not you're disadvantaged. These are by far the straightest, cheapest path into the system.
Best of luck to you.
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That is extremely helpful advice.
For me going to a UC is not a top priority I would prefer to go to Loyola over a UC school so hopefully Loyola works out for me.
But with all your advice their are a a lot of great options.
For me going to a UC is not a top priority I would prefer to go to Loyola over a UC school so hopefully Loyola works out for me.
But with all your advice their are a a lot of great options.
Oh just to let you know, it is a good program. I would consider it much better then at least one SMP i.e. better then Drexel SMP. And I don't know much of all the specifics but I've not heard negative things on here and know someone who almost went there for SMP but didn't for cost reasons. Then did grad school where they are currently attending med school and some how got in Loyola as well. But again cost issues kept them from going despite liking the school a lot, and they spoke positively about the school. So I wish you luck if that is a top contender.
Hey Dr. Midlife
Thanks for all that information!
But I have a particular question regarding the UM - SIE program. Do you know someone who has completed there post bacc through them and got accepted into med school. Anyone reading this post who has done the UM - SIE program, if you can please give any information regarding this, it will be a great help.
Thanks
Thanks for all that information!
But I have a particular question regarding the UM - SIE program. Do you know someone who has completed there post bacc through them and got accepted into med school. Anyone reading this post who has done the UM - SIE program, if you can please give any information regarding this, it will be a great help.
Thanks
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I don't have any plans to update the list.
Note that the biggest problem with my list is that it doesn't reference informal programs. Before you invest a pile of money in an SMP or in a private postbac, you should see if you can get enrolled at a public university.
I would agree with this. I will also say that you can't really add much to that list then what is already present on there. I don't think there's much else that exists unless other schools started new smps recently. But heard of no new ones lately.
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I don't have ATSU-KCOM's MSBS.
If somebody gets ambitious, here's all I did:
1. Go through the AAMC list and hit the homepages with some skepticism. Some of these are bogus - they're just taking advantage of free advertising. For instance, Seattle University doesn't have a premed program, beyond having a part-time premed adviser and a web page.
2. Go through mdapps and the postbac forum looking for new things. Focus on people with med school acceptances who did postbac work.
3. Do some Google searches.
4. Make pompous judgments about what's a REAL SMP.
5. Spend WAY too much time formatting the darned thing.
Dr. Midlife,
History major with a 3.19 cGPA, sGPA under 3.0 but not sure (but close to 3.0)... Ive taken all science prereqs plus some upper level science courses like genetics, microbio, etc. Got a 30 on the my MCATs with 11 Verbal, 10 Phys, 9 Bio... 1 year of quality research experience and (i work 32 hrs a week in a lab now as well)... Quality physician shadowing and volunteer experience... also worked as a lifeguard for a summer job for quite some time... What are my realistic chances at any of the true SMPs? And are there some that I would be more qualified for than others considering my GPAs, ECs, and MCATs? Any help would be greatly appreciated... Thanks
History major with a 3.19 cGPA, sGPA under 3.0 but not sure (but close to 3.0)... Ive taken all science prereqs plus some upper level science courses like genetics, microbio, etc. Got a 30 on the my MCATs with 11 Verbal, 10 Phys, 9 Bio... 1 year of quality research experience and (i work 32 hrs a week in a lab now as well)... Quality physician shadowing and volunteer experience... also worked as a lifeguard for a summer job for quite some time... What are my realistic chances at any of the true SMPs? And are there some that I would be more qualified for than others considering my GPAs, ECs, and MCATs? Any help would be greatly appreciated... Thanks
so i just calculated my science GPA... worse than i thought... it stands at a meager 2.68... this is via a science gpa calculator form... i didnt count classes like nutrition and medical terminology, which would improve my science gpa... can i do that or is it "against the rules" so to speak?
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Science GPA is calculated by BCPM - Biology Chemistry Physics Math
