GPA Question and Acceptance

[Jeex]

Good Morning All,

I dropped out of college about 6 years ago due to personal and financial reasons. I am currently crunching some numbers to see if my dream of becoming a doctor is actually possible to attain. My GPA is a 2.54 cumulative.

Community College: 48 Hours, 2.673 Overall GPA.
4 Year University: 60 Hours, 2.45 Overall GPA.

I am able to attend a 4 Year University while working 9-5 and should have my BSBA in 20 hours, or 60 credit hours. After which, I will be taking all of my science pre-reqs. Even if I got a 4.0 in every class, the outlook still looks grim, a 3.19 overall GPA and 3.7 science GPA. Real world, I am sure that I will get a B or two mixed in with the A's.

What is the real world possibility that I will actually have a shot at being accepted? Are the mistakes from my past when I was young and stupid too deep to overcome? Math below.

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[DrMidlife]

Success stories, cautionary tales and guidance from those who made it with similar numbers can be found here in nontrad, in the reapplicant forum, and in the postbac forum. Search rigorously on "low GPA".

(Note: that's the real info you need. The search query. Low GPA. Use SDN for consensus opinions over time, not to fish for fresh answers.)

Based on my SDN experience you'll either complain about not being given customized personal advice from expert sources, who are the least likely to be willing to help (busy sleep-deprived med students who've already answered the same questions 1000 times already)... or you'll take the time to find the info that's already here. There is so much info here. No premed story is unique, ever, unless your story can compete with that UCLA grad a few years ago who is a quadruple amputee and went into peds.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Grace184]

Based on performance in younger years, what has changed in older years that you can get this miraculous 4.0 while working 9-5? Spreadsheets are great. I used them to calculate my grades....while I was getting the grades.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, just discouraging magic thinking and number crunching with non existent numbers.

But really, what has changed for you to believe your academics will improve this much, especially with a 40 hr work week?

 

[Goro]

There are schools that reward reinvention, especially when you ace a post-bac and the MCAT. But doing is hard, words are easy.

 

[Jeex]

Based on performance in younger years, what has changed in older years that you can get this miraculous 4.0 while working 9-5? Spreadsheets are great. I used them to calculate my grades....while I was getting the grades.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, just discouraging magic thinking and number crunching with non existent numbers.

But really, what has changed for you to believe your academics will improve this much, especially with a 40 hr work week?

Completely different person as far as motivation and ambition are concerned. Completely different person as far as laziness and hard working are concerned. Completely different person as far as bodyfat and muscle are concerned. I'm completely reinvented!

Edit: I have always been told that I was smart, just needed to put in effort, and never did. I'm a "late bloomer" and didn't get my **** together until a couple of years ago. As far as coursework, (no bragging) but I have a high IQ and have always tested well. I also have a very high emotional IQ.

Thank you for helping me put my money where my mouth is!

 

[Jeex]

There are schools that reward reinvention, especially when you ace a post-bac and the MCAT. But doing is hard, words are easy.

Allopathic ones?

 

[Goro]

Both MD and DO.

 

[Jeex]

What is the lowest GPA cumulative that I would need to even consider applying? MD only.

 

[ZedsDed]

What is the lowest GPA cumulative that I would need to even consider applying? MD only.

There isn't a hard line in the sand. Get over a 3.0 if you can to avoid being screened out by some schools. Your GPA will never be competitive however, this is something you need to accept going forward.

 

[Jeex]

Considering I've taken one science class in my entire undergrad (bio 101, and got a c) I can get my science gpa up to 3.77. Do they look at overall undergrad and science undergrad differently?

 

[ZedsDed]

Considering I've taken one science class in my entire undergrad (bio 101, and got a c) I can get my science gpa up to 3.77. Do they look at overall undergrad and science undergrad differently?

In a sense a strong sGPA will probably help make up for a low cGPA, but it will not replace it. Your cGPA will always be looked at. You might want to search the forums and find success stories from those with <3.0 cGPAs and high sGPAs, as DrMidlife suggested.

 

[NonTrad16]

With a sub 3, I would expect some grade replacement would be more fruitful to up that cGPA. I expect the As, time, money, etc will all wear thin attempting to pursue an MD dream (over DO). Working full time while finishing 20 hours is one thing, but prerequisites are another 20-30 hours too, right? A moderately engaging job (FT) while taking 6-8 credits per semester, we're talking 3+ years?

Unless you're serious about "you doing you" (you pursuing the dream at whatever cost) for the next 4 years while applying, and then going anywhere that takes you, I'd stay open to DO. I do not foresee a time when you should only apply MD.

 

[ZedsDed]

With a sub 3, I would expect some grade replacement would be more fruitful to up that cGPA. I expect the As, time, money, etc will all wear thin attempting to pursue an MD dream (over DO). Working full time while finishing 20 hours is one thing, but prerequisites are another 20-30 hours too, right? A moderately engaging job (FT) while taking 6-8 credits per semester, we're talking 3+ years?

Unless you're serious about "you doing you" (you pursuing the dream at whatever cost) for the next 4 years while applying, and then going anywhere that takes you, I'd stay open to DO. I do not foresee a time when you should only apply MD.

OP is stuck on MD. Which is fine, I'm not judging him. But OP should consider that perhaps his reasons for insisting on MD (prestige, ego, etc) are possibly short-sighted; I know mine were.

 

[Jeex]

There isn't a hard line in the sand. Get over a 3.0 if you can to avoid being screened out by some schools. Your GPA will never be competitive however, this is something you need to accept going forward.

With a sub 3, I would expect some grade replacement would be more fruitful to up that cGPA. I expect the As, time, money, etc will all wear thin attempting to pursue an MD dream (over DO). Working full time while finishing 20 hours is one thing, but prerequisites are another 20-30 hours too, right? A moderately engaging job (FT) while taking 6-8 credits per semester, we're talking 3+ years?

Unless you're serious about "you doing you" (you pursuing the dream at whatever cost) for the next 4 years while applying, and then going anywhere that takes you, I'd stay open to DO. I do not foresee a time when you should only apply MD.

Yep, we're talking MD and 3+ years. I'm 27 now, figure I will be on the tail end of 31 when applying.

I guess we will see how the first semester of undergrad 2.0 goes. I don't have kids, don't want any anytime soon, had more than my fair share of girlfriends, I don't mind working nonstop for 3 years to secure my future. We will see if my mind changes after the realization of just how much work it is going to be.

 

[mavric1298]

Why MD, and why not DO? A good bit of practice that will come in handy in interviews/PS/life;
articulate here, now, your reasons why. If you can easily justify and rationally provide an answer, then move forward with that idea, knowing you are severely limiting yourself. If not, then you know you are making a decision based on as someone else said, "ego, prestige", in which case you should reevaluate your position. The fact of the matter is, it might come down to two options, becoming a doctor - with a DO after you name, or not being a doctor. As someone with an academic history like your's, you have to be willing to accept that to some extent you have already sealed some of your own fait. That isn't to say you can't become an MD, or that you shouldn't try, but statistically you are not in a good position, and DO offers a HUGE opportunity to overcome that past that MD never will - you will ALWAYS be in the bottom of accepted GPA's, and that just is a fact of stats, the more credits you have the less impact each A makes. Here is what it would look like to straight A for 200 semester credits;

 

[Jeex]

Statistically most DO's go into fields that I don't have as much interest in, and it looks like they match less to specialty programs as well. If I am going to be busting my ass to bust my ass, I want to be sure I can give myself the best chances possible.

Additionally, and most importantly - I don't like the philosophy as much as allopathic. I am open to hear thoughts and criticisms though.

Edit:
https://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/stats/2015prgstats.html
vs.
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Main-Match-Results-by-State-and-Specialty-2015.pdf


And I have been hearing this a ton:

 

[mavric1298]

Keep in mind, a lot of residency things are changing big time with the residency merger that is coming - and in 7-8+ years when you would be matching, I don't think you would be hurting yourself that much. I just think people that automatically throw out DO, especially ones with poor grades, are really limiting themselves. I would say just be open - I work with a TON of DO's in our hospital in surgery, and they had the exact same education + OMM, which none of them use. So I would just say keep an open mind, and know that MD is going to be difficult. Ask yourself if being an MD over DO is worth not being a doctor at all as a possibility.

And as a data analyst, you can't really use that chart to say how good of chance you have. You're comparing a pool of 18,000+ MD grads to a pool of 4,806 grads - who also have their own residency program that if they try to match with they exclude their own residencies, so the pool is even smaller, not to mention some of those specialties don't necessarily match as well as the type of DO grad produce (a lot do DO because they want to be in family med, etc, and like broad care).

And anecdotal evidence is just that. Just saying'. (especially from 12 years ago)