GPA too low for MD?

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IcemanDDS

Dr of Dental Shadowing
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Hey guys...

I'm an ex-pre-dent looking at the possibility of medical school. My undergrad overall GPA is ~2.7 and BCP GPA ~2.3. I recently completed a masters degree in biology with a GPA of 3.54. I've heard this but wanted to get a confirmation: do MD schools look at ALL of your academic history (cum.GPA) and DO schools look at only the higher grades from retakes (adjusted GPA)? If this is the case, then should I even apply to MD schools? My adjusted GPA is ~3.0 which doesn't look as bad. I've heard that DO schools cater more to low-stat nontrads, so just wanted to get some other opinions from people here that may know.

Thanks

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It sounds like you have an upward trend grade-wise. That's definitely what schools want to see. What did you do your graduate work in? Unless it's an SMP, you should have a shot. I'd say it's always worth applying to MD even if it's a few schools. DO always has to work harder for the same residency. But if you don't care about where you do your residency, then go the easier DO route?
 
Hey guys...
do MD schools look at ALL of your academic history (cum.GPA) and DO schools look at only the higher grades from retakes (adjusted GPA)? If this is the case, then should I even apply to MD schools? My adjusted GPA is ~3.0 which doesn't look as bad. I've heard that DO schools cater more to low-stat nontrads, so just wanted to get some other opinions from people here that may know.

Thanks

Yes, all undergraduate coursework ever taken, even if decades ago count on the AMCAS, it doesn't matter if you engaged in an "academic second chance" program or similar and your BS is with honors. Retakes count, but do not appear to replace.
 
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Yes, people have gotten into medical school with stats like yours. Not unheard of. Still it is a very uphill (and expensive) battle. My advice for you and all other people in similar situations is this. Cost benefit analysis.

Take into account the cost of applying, interviewing, moving, etc. (several thousand dollars). Think about what you could do instead of medicine. Assume worst case, you apply broadly, DO and MD, get interviews, and don't get accepted anywhere so that you are out the several thousand dollars.

Is it worth it to spend all that money, and not get in?

What do you do afterwards? Are you willing to spend more money/time to improve your application (if possible) to try and apply next cycle? Or, are you going to go get some other job?

If the latter, then is it really worth it to spend the money on a long shot?

If it is, then go for it. Bottom Line: Weigh the risks and don't put all your eggs in one basket.

Good luck.
 
Hey guys...

I'm an ex-pre-dent looking at the possibility of medical school. My undergrad overall GPA is ~2.7 and BCP GPA ~2.3. I recently completed a masters degree in biology with a GPA of 3.54. I've heard this but wanted to get a confirmation: do MD schools look at ALL of your academic history (cum.GPA) and DO schools look at only the higher grades from retakes (adjusted GPA)? If this is the case, then should I even apply to MD schools? My adjusted GPA is ~3.0 which doesn't look as bad. I've heard that DO schools cater more to low-stat nontrads, so just wanted to get some other opinions from people here that may know.

Thanks

Schools separate out undergraduate and graduate GPAs. So your cumulative GPA is still 2.7 unless you took undergrad courses in your masters degree. DO schools do replace retakes.

A masters degree ~3.5, I hate to say it, is not all that impressive. Whether true or not, most feel that there is massive grade inflation in graduate school. So while a grad GPA of 3.5 will help your case, I think your GPA is still much too low. It is made worse by the fact that your science GPA is even lower.

I think you dont really have any shot at getting into an MD school. DO schools are still going to be a long shot because of that undergrad gpa.

My recommendation is to take upper level undergrad science courses to bring up your science GPA.

Good luck
 
Thanks for all the great responses guys.

I'm still putting a lot of thought into this process, and I won't apply to schools that are an exceptional long-shot. I haven't even taken MCAT yet, so the first part of my decision would be my score. If I can't score 28+ then I won't bother applying at all.

I have a master's, and considering going to finish a PhD which would help my chances I think. Getting some research, etc under my belt.
 
Hey Guys, this is great info, but I have a similar circumstance. I did an undergrad in Biophysics at the University of Michigan got a 2.7, I was working a ton.

Then I traveled, and it opened my eyes, I quit one my jobs and my grade went to almost all A's my last year of undergrad. Then I completed a master's in Molecular, Cellular, and Developmental Bio at University of Michigan as well. Got a 3.5, finishing with all A's and one B+, then I traveled more, working at medical clinic in Nepal, South Africa, Peru and volunteered in a bunch of other ones. I have now been to more than 30 different countries, volunteering in five different continents. I got a 29 MCAT, 9B,11P,9V.

Do you think my travels and volunteering all over the world will offset my bad undergrad?

Thanks much, I really appreciate it.
 
Hey Guys, this is great info, but I have a similar circumstance. I did an undergrad in Biophysics at the University of Michigan got a 2.7, I was working a ton.

Then I traveled, and it opened my eyes, I quit one my jobs and my grade went to almost all A's my last year of undergrad. Then I completed a master's in Molecular, Cellular, and Developmental Bio at University of Michigan as well. Got a 3.5, finishing with all A's and one B+, then I traveled more, working at medical clinic in Nepal, South Africa, Peru and volunteered in a bunch of other ones. I have now been to more than 30 different countries, volunteering in five different continents. I got a 29 MCAT, 9B,11P,9V.

Do you think my travels and volunteering all over the world will offset my bad undergrad?

Oh, I have also two years of Biophysics research under my belt as well.

Thanks much, I really appreciate it.
 
Hey Guys, this is great info, but I have a similar circumstance. I did an undergrad in Biophysics at the University of Michigan got a 2.7, I was working a ton.

Then I traveled, and it opened my eyes, I quit one my jobs and my grade went to almost all A's my last year of undergrad. Then I completed a master's in Molecular, Cellular, and Developmental Bio at University of Michigan as well. Got a 3.5, finishing with all A's and one B+, then I traveled more, working at medical clinic in Nepal, South Africa, Peru and volunteered in a bunch of other ones. I have now been to more than 30 different countries, volunteering in five different continents. I got a 29 MCAT, 9B,11P,9V.

Do you think my travels and volunteering all over the world will offset my bad undergrad?

Thanks much, I really appreciate it.

This is where I'm not sure how adcoms look at each applicant. If they have hard GPA cutoffs, it doesn't matter what you've done if your GPA is below the cutoff. I could have 45 MCAT and 1 mil hours of shadowing and research, but if they cut off at 3.0 and below, then I have no shot at an interview. Schools will tell you they consider every applicant, but they must have some kind of system that weeds out low numbers.

I'm leaning heavily at only applying to DO schools, since I have retaken many undergrad sciences and done better. Grade replacement greatly increases my science GPA (by like 0.4 points). On the other hand, looking at my overall GPA, those science retakes barely budge it since I have so many credits now.

So, looks like DO is the only route for me.:(
 
Hey Guys, this is great info, but I have a similar circumstance. I did an undergrad in Biophysics at the University of Michigan got a 2.7, I was working a ton.

Then I traveled, and it opened my eyes, I quit one my jobs and my grade went to almost all A's my last year of undergrad. Then I completed a master's in Molecular, Cellular, and Developmental Bio at University of Michigan as well. Got a 3.5, finishing with all A's and one B+, then I traveled more, working at medical clinic in Nepal, South Africa, Peru and volunteered in a bunch of other ones. I have now been to more than 30 different countries, volunteering in five different continents. I got a 29 MCAT, 9B,11P,9V.

Do you think my travels and volunteering all over the world will offset my bad undergrad?

Thanks much, I really appreciate it.


Unique ECs!! But, I dont think they are that unique. That undergrad GPA is a killer.
 
Unique ECs!! But, I dont think they are that unique. That undergrad GPA is a killer.

Yeah, he needs a much higher MCAT. A 29 and 2.7 will make it difficult to get into any MD program. A 39 though will offset the GPA to his favor at most schools, but not the schools that auto-screen.

If you want it bad enough, you can get a >35.
 
Sounds like med schools ultimately don't care about a graduate GPA if the undergrad is too low...
 
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Thanks for all the great responses guys.

I'm still putting a lot of thought into this process, and I won't apply to schools that are an exceptional long-shot. I haven't even taken MCAT yet, so the first part of my decision would be my score. If I can't score 28+ then I won't bother applying at all.

I have a master's, and considering going to finish a PhD which would help my chances I think. Getting some research, etc under my belt.

IcemanDDS,

I would HIGHLY advise against pursuing a PhD to help boost your MD school chances. A PhD would take anywhere from 2-4 years after your MS and if you aren't really passionate about the topic it would be a miserable process. Finally, from some the FAQs and member's posting, it is said that a PhD is just a really nice EC but won't be a game changer for medical school admissions.
 
IcemanDDS,

I would HIGHLY advise against pursuing a PhD to help boost your MD school chances. A PhD would take anywhere from 2-4 years after your MS and if you aren't really passionate about the topic it would be a miserable process. Finally, from some the FAQs and member's posting, it is said that a PhD is just a really nice EC but won't be a game changer for medical school admissions.

Gotcha. The PhD idea was spur of the moment, I never intended on doing it originally. Looking into it, I don't think its something I want to do anyway. My focus now should be on replacing the C's from undergrad and MCAT if I pursue this.

Thx
 
If you have a poor UG gpa, the best way to fix that is by taking more ug classes or doing a SMP.

To the OP, your gpa is way too low be be competitive at MD schools. Your grad gpa will do little to help.
Your gpa is too low to even get into most SMP programs.
You could do post-bacc for a couple of years and then try a SMP.

I would focus on DO schools. Retake a bunch of UG classes and get your gpa in the 3.5 range.

MD is not impossible, but realize you have about 3-4 years of work before you are ready to apply.:luck:
 
If you have a poor UG gpa, the best way to fix that is by taking more ug classes or doing a SMP.

To the OP, your gpa is way too low be be competitive at MD schools. Your grad gpa will do little to help.
Your gpa is too low to even get into most SMP programs.
You could do post-bacc for a couple of years and then try a SMP.

I would focus on DO schools. Retake a bunch of UG classes and get your gpa in the 3.5 range.

MD is not impossible, but realize you have about 3-4 years of work before you are ready to apply.:luck:

Since MD don't do grade replacements, I will never have a shot. We're talking years of UG classes to budge my GPA. DO on the other hand, I do have a good shot assuming I retake and get A's in low sciences. That and a killer MCAT. Only problem is making the decision. I've got nothing holding me back, besides that I'm 28.
 
so to add to the other questions in this thread would it be more useful to take upper div courses or retake all your lower divs first then work your way to upper div?
 
so to add to the other questions in this thread would it be more useful to take upper div courses or retake all your lower divs first then work your way to upper div?

My advice now would be (if I had it to do over again) make sure you have an A or B in all of your required courses before you start on upper div courses
 
so to add to the other questions in this thread would it be more useful to take upper div courses or retake all your lower divs first then work your way to upper div?

If applying DO, retake your lowest grades first.
This is the fastest way to move your GPA in the right direction.

I'd even retake Basketweaving 101 if you got an F.
 
Since MD don't do grade replacements, I will never have a shot. We're talking years of UG classes to budge my GPA. DO on the other hand, I do have a good shot assuming I retake and get A's in low sciences. That and a killer MCAT. Only problem is making the decision. I've got nothing holding me back, besides that I'm 28.

This is exactly why I tell people in your position to go DO.
It really makes no difference anyway.
 
If applying DO, retake your lowest grades first.
This is the fastest way to move your GPA in the right direction.

I'd even retake Basketweaving 101 if you got an F.

thanks for the advice guys, I think if I Fed basketweaving I'd have bigger problems than getting into med school ;p
 
Sounds like med schools ultimately don't care about a graduate GPA if the undergrad is too low...

Don't forget that all allopathic med schools, whether for good or for bad, have average magic numbers they want to preserve. When you flip open the MSAR and look at school X and the average GPA is a 3.7 and the average MCAT is 31, there is a reason for that.

The schools will not allow their averages to drop much (if at all), so that is working against you as much as anything. No matter what, they have to factor your GPA into their average that they report.

Probably not inspiring to you, but I am just being pragmatic.

I'd go with a DO program that allows you to replace grades, as others have suggested.
 
Don't forget that all allopathic med schools, whether for good or for bad, have average magic numbers they want to preserve. When you flip open the MSAR and look at school X and the average GPA is a 3.7 and the average MCAT is 31, there is a reason for that.

The schools will not allow their averages to drop much (if at all), so that is working against you as much as anything. No matter what, they have to factor your GPA into their average that they report.

Probably not inspiring to you, but I am just being pragmatic.

I'd go with a DO program that allows you to replace grades, as others have suggested.

Makes sense... and I guess if you ever get in with a lower GPA you probably brought a killer MCAT score to the table.
 
DO program is a long shot for the OP. The DO programs are getting competitive. DMU is a 3.6 and 27 MCAT....PCOM is higher

DO programs will be a long shot.

Good luck
 
DO program is a long shot for the OP. The DO programs are getting competitive. DMU is a 3.6 and 27 MCAT....PCOM is higher

DO programs will be a long shot.

Good luck

I wouldn't apply until 2011 after replacing some grades, building EC's, and having a strong mcat. Will take a lot of work but can be done.
 
I wouldn't apply until 2011 after replacing some grades, building EC's, and having a strong mcat. Will take a lot of work but can be done.

Ok cool....I only want to say the DO schools are starting to turn into less competitive MD schools. Their entrance scores are rising and they are starting to look at the stats more than they used to. Work hard and hopefully things will work out for you.

PM with questions
 
Iceman, you seemed pretty dead-set on dental for awhile. If you don't mind me asking, why'd you change your mind?
 
Since MD don't do grade replacements, I will never have a shot. We're talking years of UG classes to budge my GPA. DO on the other hand, I do have a good shot assuming I retake and get A's in low sciences. That and a killer MCAT. Only problem is making the decision. I've got nothing holding me back, besides that I'm 28.

That's the mindset you want. As for having a shot at an MD, I had a microbiology instructor who got into an MD school (Albany Medical College) with a 2.7 cumulative, so anything is possible.

Now for the MCAT, I strongly believe that if you throw everything at studying for the MCAT (don't take the Kaplan course)... you will do fine. :smuggrin:
 
That's the mindset you want. As for having a shot at an MD, I had a microbiology instructor who got into an MD school (Albany Medical College) with a 2.7 cumulative, so anything is possible.

Now for the MCAT, I strongly believe that if you throw everything at studying for the MCAT (don't take the Kaplan course)... you will do fine. :smuggrin:

I won't be taking any classroom course... I have Examkrackers MCAT and seems to be good so far, but then again I've never taken the MCAT to know.
 
That's the mindset you want. As for having a shot at an MD, I had a microbiology instructor who got into an MD school (Albany Medical College) with a 2.7 cumulative, so anything is possible.

Now for the MCAT, I strongly believe that if you throw everything at studying for the MCAT (don't take the Kaplan course)... you will do fine. :smuggrin:

It's a good point.

To the OP, I'd apply broadly to MD and DO schools. You never know what will happen until you try, and as long as you don't mind being told "no", then there is no harm in trying.
 
It's a good point.

To the OP, I'd apply broadly to MD and DO schools. You never know what will happen until you try, and as long as you don't mind being told "no", then there is no harm in trying.

Thought I'd chime in. I agree, apply broadly, kick butt on the MCAT (full throttle), take the 'NOs' you'll get along the way, and remember: nothing ventured, nothing gained.

My undergrad GPA was very similar, and now I been accepted to three MD schools! Go for it!:xf:
 
I think the chances for ever getting in to a US MD school will be very low with that undergrad GPA, even if the MCAT turns out quite high.

I agree w/instatewaiter...retake classes and go for DO. It never hurts to apply to your in state MD schools, though don't expect much success there.

p.s. Are you sure you don't want to be a dentist? They have much better hours/lifestyle than MD's or DO's in general, and provide valuable health care services.
 
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