Graduate decisions for Psychology majors

[Aestheticism]

Hello , My name is Lea and I am kind of in an early conflicted decision.

Background:
Current A.A student
Major psychology
Plan to minor in Early Childhood during Bachelors starting Fall 2016.
I enjoy psychology, learning about disorders and treatments, helping others especially children & adolescence.
I have experience in advising and higher education settings.

Confusion:
I have noticed that many schools, in my state of Florida to be exact, do not have a lot of M.S programs in Clinical Psychology. I have also read around that getting that degree is pointless and I should head in a different path towards Social Work or Counseling then do my doctorate in Clinical.

I wanted to become an academic advisor because I love working in the school settings and helping the students with life and career goals, researching about majors, degree programs, careers, etc. I also love the opportunity for promotion to director positions. Then, I realized that I would not make the salary I would want even with a doctorate. I am willing to do a doctorate with any major.

Since I always loved psychology, now I am branching off to Clinical Psychology for all ages but mainly children & adolescence. My questions are:

1) Is becoming a Clinical Psychologist worth it?
2) What master's degree should I get prior to my doctorate if I decide on Clinical Psych.? (MSW, M.S Clinical Psych, Etc).
3) Is it possible and worth it to be a part-time advisor and also work as a psychologist?
4) What could I specialize in so I could work with mental health patients AND teenagers in school settings?
5) Double major in School Psych and Social Work or something else related to psychology?

Thank you

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[WisNeuro]

I don't think anyone can answer this question except for themselves. All of these depend on your career aspirations and goals. In the poll, none are "better" in an objective sense, they're all fairly different endpoints of training with minimal overlap of job skills and expectations. Honestly, salary should not be the number 1 factor in deciding a path. It's a long path for many of those, and if it's not something you like and feel at least partially fulfilled by, the money won't matter at all. I'd take some time to think about what you really want to do, what would you feel happy about doing day in and day out for a career, first.

 

[Aestheticism]

I don't think anyone can answer this question except for themselves. All of these depend on your career aspirations and goals. In the poll, none are "better" in an objective sense, they're all fairly different endpoints of training with minimal overlap of job skills and expectations. Honestly, salary should not be the number 1 factor in deciding a path. It's a long path for many of those, and if it's not something you like and feel at least partially fulfilled by, the money won't matter at all. I'd take some time to think about what you really want to do, what would you feel happy about doing day in and day out for a career, first.

I am not making salary a #1 factor but why would I get a doctorate in something and end up being paid 30k-40k? I stated that all of these careers are great for me so I would feel comfortable doing all day in and day out. I would rather answers to my questions but thank you for your feedback.

 

[WisNeuro]

I was merely commenting on your initial desire to be an academic counselor, which you reported that you enjoyed. As for the other questions, such as "Is becoming a Clinical Psychologist worth it? " it really depends, what are your career goals? It could be, if they align, or it could not be. As people in the field, we can't really give you an answer with the information you provided. What do you want to in clinical psychology? The only info we have is that you enjoy academic counseling, which really isn't a part of clinical psychology, and that you like helping people, which is not terribly specific to psychology.

 

[chicandtoughness]

It is worth noting that:

- You do not necessarily need a masters to get into a PhD Clinical Psychology program. A year or two spent doing clinical research is probably better.

- You *do* need a MSW to get a DSW, but for most people, the DSW is only for teaching/administrative purposes. You can do a lot of stuff (therapy, insurance billing, etc.) with the MSW and it is considered a terminal masters for that reason. In short - DSW is more theory/"high level"/not really necessary.

I am not making salary a #1 factor but why would I get a doctorate in something and end up being paid 30k-40k?

In most states, a Masters/EdS in School Psychology makes very close to a PhD in School Psychology. I know in my home state, they actually make THE EXACT SAME AMOUNT (it's about $45k starting salary here, up to $65k if you've been serving 30+ years....). It's the license that matters, not the degree. So if you're planning to do school psychology as an applied career (i.e. working directly with children/adolescents in schools), there is no need to do the PhD so long as you can get licensed with the EdS.

4) What could I specialize in so I could work with mental health patients AND teenagers in school settings?

You would be stretching yourself pretty thin there. Being a school psychologist in a high school is a steady 40-hour-week job (especially if you're in an understaffed district where some school psychs actually travel between 2-4 schools!) It will be difficult to have time on the side to also treat mentally disordered patients (say, in a clinic or something). I suppose you could have a part-time private practice or something where you only see people in the evenings/weekends, but why would you subject yourself to a good 14+ hours of work every day?!

If you were referring to treating teens with mental health issues, school psychologists usually refer them out to private psychologists for major issues (e.g. eating disorders, schizo, etc.) For "tamer" issues, there is group counseling and the like within the schools, but if you want to work with extreme psychopathy, that's not the place to be.

5) Double major in School Psych and Social Work or something else related to psychology?

You're going to an undergrad institution that allows you to major specifically in school psychology?

 

[smalltownpsych]

One reason that I chose the path of becoming a clinical psychologist is that I believed that it afforded me the most flexibility. In the ten years since I started the doctoral program, I have been able to work with kids, teens, college kids, adults, geriatric adults. I have worked in medical hospitals, inpatient psych hospitals both private and state, community mental health, county jail, private practice, regular high schools, alternative high schools, long-term residential treatment for teens, and a VA hospital. I have also taught college courses and been a clinical director of a treatment t program. I believe I made the absolute right choice for me. There are still many other things that I would like to do and time is the only limitation. I have about 20 more years of working so I see a lot of opportunities.

 

[Aestheticism]

One reason that I chose the path of becoming a clinical psychologist is that I believed that it afforded me the most flexibility. In the ten years since I started the doctoral program, I have been able to work with kids, teens, college kids, adults, geriatric adults. I have worked in medical hospitals, inpatient psych hospitals both private and state, community mental health, county jail, private practice, regular high schools, alternative high schools, long-term residential treatment for teens, and a VA hospital. I have also taught college courses and been a clinical director of a treatment t program. I believe I made the absolute right choice for me. There are still many other things that I would like to do and time is the only limitation. I have about 20 more years of working so I see a lot of opportunities.

Your response really helped me a lot. All of the opportunities you've listed are what I am interested in.

So question:
Basically it would be better to get a "regular" Clinical Psychology degree rather than a specific one? There's two universities here that I am interested in. FIU has only the Clinical Psychology degree with a concentration on children's and teens, UCF has the regular Clinical Psychology degree.

Also, Is Psychology *better* than Social Work? What's the difference? I couldn't really find any direct answers. The only thing I concluded was that Psychologist are more respected and earn a little more. But what is your opinion on Social Work vs Clinical Psychology?

 

[Aestheticism]

It is worth noting that:

- You do not necessarily need a masters to get into a PhD Clinical Psychology program. A year or two spent doing clinical research is probably better.

- You *do* need a MSW to get a DSW, but for most people, the DSW is only for teaching/administrative purposes. You can do a lot of stuff (therapy, insurance billing, etc.) with the MSW and it is considered a terminal masters for that reason. In short - DSW is more theory/"high level"/not really necessary.



In most states, a Masters/EdS in School Psychology makes very close to a PhD in School Psychology. I know in my home state, they actually make THE EXACT SAME AMOUNT (it's about $45k starting salary here, up to $65k if you've been serving 30+ years....). It's the license that matters, not the degree. So if you're planning to do school psychology as an applied career (i.e. working directly with children/adolescents in schools), there is no need to do the PhD so long as you can get licensed with the EdS.

4) What could I specialize in so I could work with mental health patients AND teenagers in school settings?

You would be stretching yourself pretty thin there. Being a school psychologist in a high school is a steady 40-hour-week job (especially if you're in an understaffed district where some school psychs actually travel between 2-4 schools!) It will be difficult to have time on the side to also treat mentally disordered patients (say, in a clinic or something). I suppose you could have a part-time private practice or something where you only see people in the evenings/weekends, but why would you subject yourself to a good 14+ hours of work every day?!

If you were referring to treating teens with mental health issues, school psychologists usually refer them out to private psychologists for major issues (e.g. eating disorders, schizo, etc.) For "tamer" issues, there is group counseling and the like within the schools, but if you want to work with extreme psychopathy, that's not the place to be.

5) Double major in School Psych and Social Work or something else related to psychology?

You're going to an undergrad institution that allows you to major specifically in school psychology?

Yes I have heard that you did not *need* a Masters for the PhD programs. So there really is not a degree I could earn during my Masters that would be beneficial towards a Phd? or is there? Also, I was geared towards School Psychology because I wanted to do academic advising. I planned on pursuing a doctorate so I could eventually have a higher income and have more job variety, but you're saying to just stick to getting a EdS and get licensed in that field? (If I decide on this option).

and yes! We have schools in Florida that do have School Psychology/School Counseling as a major in the Education Department

 

[Aestheticism]

I was merely commenting on your initial desire to be an academic counselor, which you reported that you enjoyed. As for the other questions, such as "Is becoming a Clinical Psychologist worth it? " it really depends, what are your career goals? It could be, if they align, or it could not be. As people in the field, we can't really give you an answer with the information you provided. What do you want to in clinical psychology? The only info we have is that you enjoy academic counseling, which really isn't a part of clinical psychology, and that you like helping people, which is not terribly specific to psychology.

My career goals is working in an environment with others such as children and/or teens. I do enjoy both the psychological and education settings I receive from both. I am stuck between School Psychology or Clinical Psychology. I'll break it down more of what I like from each and maybe that would help?

School Psychology:
I enjoy working in academic settings
Working with students to create educational plans
I would love to help staff make programs for the school
Clinical Psychology:
I enjoy listening and observing others
I enjoy helping others with personal issues
I enjoy learning about theories and disorders
I would enjoy creating psychological evaluations, and running tests.
I would love to open up my own clinic
I love learning about the brain and different functions, also how certain things connect to others.

So basically I would enjoy both but I have to pick one at the end. The final decision would come from which career would still be stable in the future, and be in high demand. With either degree, I could become a Professor and/or Academic Advisor, just in case I decided to switch careers. I have seen some advisors work as advisors and psychologist. I really do not want to waste a whole 2-8 years getting a degree that would be a waste. Sorry if I confused you lol.

 

[Chalupacabra]

School Psychology:
I enjoy working in academic settings
Working with students to create educational plans
I would love to help staff make programs for the school

This is more like school counseling than school psychology, although SPs do often help with school/district wide programs.

 

[PsychMajorUndergrad18]

Hello Ms. Aestheticism,

First of all, I agree with WisNeuro. No one can make this decision except for you. Clinical Psychology is a very wide field of choice. There is many different branches of clinical psych, such as clinical child psychology, neuropsychology and (my personal favorite) industrial-organizational psychology. A degree in psychology is very rewarding and you can make it your own. Basically what I mean is that not only do you get to study how people behave but you could also pick your own area of expertise at the graduate level.

A few options I would choose if I was in your position would be:

(1) After finishing undergrad, obtain a MS/MA and Ed.S (education specialist) in school psychology and work with learning disabled students (which I know a lot about this route because I am a learning disabled student and have had multiple school psychologist growing up) and then go for a combined Psy.D (Doctor of Psychology) or PhD in Clinical and School Psychology.

(2) This option would start with the Masters and Ed.S but then get either another masters or PhD in Educational Leadership. With Educational Leadership, you would most likely be at the forefront in making decisions in regards to make and implementing programs for students. Plus I think you can do a specialization in special education leadership (not 100% sure if it is possible) if you want to implement programs for special needs students

(3) Since you like the role of academic advising, maybe go for a masters in school counseling or student affairs and counseling (basically college level school counselor/advisor) and if you want to get a PhD maybe one in counseling psychology in order to also work in a college counseling center if you pick student affairs or want to work with a college level population.

(4) Get a Masters and PhD in Clinical Psychology and do a Post-doctoral fellowship in Child and Adolescent Psychology. With this you'd be able to work with children and adolescents who possibly have a learning disability that is also a mental health or behavioral disorder such as autism. But if you go this route, you would be in school for 4 to 6 years after undergrad and then a addition 1 to 2 years of a fellowship. But in the end you can open up your own private practice.

Salary-wise each choice is different:

Option 1: You would make as a school psychologist possibly 53,000 average (keep in mind this could change with years of experience etc.)
Option 2: As a school psychologist you'd make the same as option 1 but if you decided to go the educational leadership path as a Director of Special Education you would make 53,000 average (keep in mind this salary make change over the years
Option 3: As a school counselor you would make 40,000 aerage. As a academic advisor you'd make about 42,000 on average. Then as a college counseling psychology you'd make 60,000 and up possibly
Option 4: As a Child Psychologist you can make 76,000 averagely and can work in private practice in which you can charge for your own services and possibly make more.
(these salaries were found onindeed.com)

To end this post, I would like to thank you for wanting to go into a career working with special needs students. The special needs community needs people like you to help make a difference in the education of these students. Also the most important thing that I have learned and that I would like to impart to you is that no matter what salary you'd make you should love what you do and at the end of everyday be proud that you are doing what you love and making a difference in someone's life. If you have any questions or just want to talk to a fellow undergrad psych major feel free to message me anytime and I will get back to you as soon as possible.

 

[deleted343839]

Yes I have heard that you did not *need* a Masters for the PhD programs. So there really is not a degree I could earn during my Masters that would be beneficial towards a Phd? or is there?

That's probably not the best way to think about it. You should be thinking about excelling as an undergraduate (both in terms of grades and research experience) in order to position yourself well to stand out in your graduate school applications. Some people get a master's degree and then apply for a Ph.D. program, but that's a longer path. Often the point of getting a master's before applying to a doctoral program is to make up for some deficiency in your record or boost your research experience (though sometimes there are better options for the latter). In psychology, a master's degree will not accelerate your doctoral training - you would take the same courses and do the same activities in step with students who entered with bachelor's degrees. Thus, if you decide that a doctoral degree is the right thing for you, you should try your best to enter a doctoral program without investing more time and money in a master's degree.

...that is, if you need a doctoral degree. It sounds like you will benefit from learning more about the day-to-day work of an academic advisor, a school psychologist or counselor, a clinical psychologist, a psychology professor, etc. - these are all very different types of jobs and when you are able to get some clarity about which will best suit your interests and abilities, your next steps will be easier to see.

Meanwhile, do your utmost to excel as an undergraduate, find good mentors, take advantage of office hours and academic advising, and read more about careers in mental health.

 

[PsychMajorUndergrad18]

MamaPhD you always give the best advice. Just from hearing your post I feel more dedicated to excelling more in my undergrad studies. I agree that it would be best to learn more about the day to day activities of different psych positions. I'd like to add to what MamaPhD said and also suggest emailing professionals in different fields to get they opinions and possibly hear their experiences. And even better try to meet a professional in person if possible.

 

[chicandtoughness]

Also, I was geared towards School Psychology because I wanted to do academic advising. I planned on pursuing a doctorate so I could eventually have a higher income and have more job variety, but you're saying to just stick to getting a EdS and get licensed in that field? (If I decide on this option).

You need to review what a School Psychologist actually does. They do not do academic advising, that is purely School Counseling. Your primary responsibility will be SPED kids. The doctorate -- this is assuming you want to work in schools -- will not get you a higher income, because as long as you are licensed (LSSP), it doesn't matter what degree level you're at; you'll get paid the same. Now, if you actively want to teach at the university level and open a private practice, then the PhD would make sense. But judging from your responses, you're really interested in the school setting more than anything else.

So my advice to you: read up on what a School Psychologist actually does vs. a School Counselor and choose the best path for you. If you want to help with academic advising, help students figure out career paths, talk to them about how they're adjusting to a new high school, that kind of stuff... then becoming a School Counselor might me more interesting.

School Psychology:
I enjoy working in academic settings
Working with students to create educational plans
I would love to help staff make programs for the school
Clinical Psychology:
I enjoy listening and observing others
I enjoy helping others with personal issues
I enjoy learning about theories and disorders
I would enjoy creating psychological evaluations, and running tests.
I would love to open up my own clinic
I love learning about the brain and different functions, also how certain things connect to others.

You'll find that many of the pros in your clinical psych list can also apply to your school psych list

 

[Chalupacabra]

The doctorate -- this is assuming you want to work in schools -- will not get you a higher income, because as long as you are licensed (LSSP), it doesn't matter what degree level you're at; you'll get paid the same.

The PsyD SP in the district where I completed my internship made more than the rest of the SPs because of their doctorate. This may not be universal, but it is certainly not unheard of, and in some cases it is actually mandated by union standards (SPs are often members of the teacher's union) that anyone with a doctorate is paid more.

 

[smalltownpsych]

My career goals is working in an environment with others such as children and/or teens. I do enjoy both the psychological and education settings I receive from both. I am stuck between School Psychology or Clinical Psychology. I'll break it down more of what I like from each and maybe that would help?

School Psychology:
I enjoy working in academic settings
Working with students to create educational plans
I would love to help staff make programs for the school
Clinical Psychology:
I enjoy listening and observing others
I enjoy helping others with personal issues
I enjoy learning about theories and disorders
I would enjoy creating psychological evaluations, and running tests.
I would love to open up my own clinic
I love learning about the brain and different functions, also how certain things connect to others.

So basically I would enjoy both but I have to pick one at the end. The final decision would come from which career would still be stable in the future, and be in high demand. With either degree, I could become a Professor and/or Academic Advisor, just in case I decided to switch careers. I have seen some advisors work as advisors and psychologist. I really do not want to waste a whole 2-8 years getting a degree that would be a waste. Sorry if I confused you lol.

All of the interests that you list under school psychology can be done by a clinical psychologist, but it doesn't work so much the other way around. School counselor is usually an MA degree that pays under 50k, school psychologist is also an MA degree usually and pays a little bit more, a clinical psychologist usually makes about double. A
Because of the salary differential, publics schools won't hire a full-time doctoral psychologist typically.. My experience in school setting was on a contract basis and billing medicaid and other experience in school setting was in an expensive private boarding school. To me, a clinical psychologist provides the most options and the best overall training, but it is also the most difficult path. If you have the academic ability, then why not go for the most challenging and rewarding path that gives you the most options?

 

[PsychMajorUndergrad18]

I am not sure this is completely true but I think I might have read that NASP and NCSP certification is only being awarded to Ed.S level practioners. If NASP is endorsing this, then is it safe to assume that masters level degree programs will be fading out and MA/Ed.S programs become the entry level requirement?

 

[Chalupacabra]

I am not sure this is completely true but I think I might have read that NASP and NCSP certification is only being awarded to Ed.S level practioners. If NASP is endorsing this, then is it safe to assume that masters level degree programs will be fading out and MA/Ed.S programs become the entry level requirement?

You are correct and this has been the NASP standard for some time. An MA in School/Ed Psych is really only useful as a stepping stone for admission to another program. I mean, you can also be a NCSP with a PhD, but I assume you meant the EdS was the bare minimum.

 

[mcvcm92]

All of the interests that you list under school psychology can be done by a clinical psychologist, but it doesn't work so much the other way around. School counselor is usually an MA degree that pays under 50k, school psychologist is also an MA degree usually and pays a little bit more, a clinical psychologist usually makes about double. A
Because of the salary differential, publics schools won't hire a full-time doctoral psychologist typically.. My experience in school setting was on a contract basis and billing medicaid and other experience in school setting was in an expensive private boarding school. To me, a clinical psychologist provides the most options and the best overall training, but it is also the most difficult path. If you have the academic ability, then why not go for the most challenging and rewarding path that gives you the most options?

Although clinical psychologists can do very similar work to school psychologists, they really shouldn't be working on things like IEPs without having a strong background in special education type coursework. Public school districts rarely hire those with clinical psychology backgrounds, although I do know a couple. Just as school psychologists (doctoral level) who complete ample practica / coursework outside of schools can secure jobs in non-school settings, clinical psychologists who complete school-related practica and coursework can get a school-based job.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Although clinical psychologists can do very similar work to school psychologists, they really shouldn't be working on things like IEPs without having a strong background in special education type coursework. Public school districts rarely hire those with clinical psychology backgrounds, although I do know a couple. Just as school psychologists (doctoral level) who complete ample practica / coursework outside of schools can secure jobs in non-school settings, clinical psychologists who complete school-related practica and coursework can get a school-based job.

When I have worked at schools, the MA level school psychologist did the IEPs and I did the interventions, consultations, collaborating with all the parties, and providing some education and research info. Trust me, any school can use a clinical psychologist, they just usually can't hire them. In small towns they especially want some help and much of it can be billed to medicaid or insurance.

 

[Aestheticism]

I am on the path of Child and Adolescence Clinical Psychology.
In Florida, I believe there is one university (FSU) that offers a dual degree program for a PhD in Clinical Psychology and School Psychology. But there is a school (FIU) that offers the PhD in Clinical Psychology with a specialization in only Children and Adolescence.

I like the option of getting a M.A in School Psychology and a PhD in Clinical Psychology (I'll go to FIU because of the direct child specialization). But would I have to take certain credits to be approved for the doctoral program? Or could I just work on research projects while in my masters?

To end this post, I would like to thank you for wanting to go into a career working with special needs students. The special needs community needs people like you to help make a difference in the education of these students. Also the most important thing that I have learned and that I would like to impart to you is that no matter what salary you'd make you should love what you do and at the end of everyday be proud that you are doing what you love and making a difference in someone's life. If you have any questions or just want to talk to a fellow undergrad psych major feel free to message me anytime and I will get back to you as soon as possible.

thank you so much I do enjoy working with all ages but children and teenagers are my specialty.

 

[Aestheticism]

The PsyD SP in the district where I completed my internship made more than the rest of the SPs because of their doctorate. This may not be universal, but it is certainly not unheard of, and in some cases it is actually mandated by union standards (SPs are often members of the teacher's union) that anyone with a doctorate is paid more.

I agree. In most parts of Florida, A doctorate in anything will guarantee a higher income.

 

[Aestheticism]

Response for some saying "School Psychology does not do academic advising":
School Psychology can get me hired as an academic advisor. That's what I meant. I work in the advisement office now and there are plenty of them that are either School Psychologist or Clinical Psychologist.

I would love to thank you all for the responses. I decided on getting a PhD in Clinical Psychology with Child and Adolescence specialization. Still confused on the masters part but I'm thinking M.A or Ed.S in School Psychology or School Counseling.

 

[Aestheticism]

It's unwise to be so geographically restricted. FIU is a clinical science program, and thus is highly competitive and will only admit students who want careers in research.

Well... I am trying to stay in my state where I was born so I wouldn't have to take out more loans (which I might have to regardless) for being an out-of-state student. I know that FIU is very competitive and I am ready for the competition. I have lots of time to make myself competitive. I am aware of the rejection and I will apply to other schools, but I am thinking positive about FIU.

 

[Aestheticism]

But the goal of the program has nothing to do with your stated goals of either working in academic advising (which quite frankly doesn't have much to do with clinical psychology) or a career that is more clinical in nature. You will learn that applying to Ph.D. programs is heavily about *fit* with the program. It is very unlikely that you will be accepted to a program where there is not a fit between your research interests and those of your prospective mentor and also a fit between your goals and what the program trains their students to do. Additionally, if you apply to funded programs, being an out of state student will not matter because your tuition (in addition to a living stipend) will be covered. It seems like there is still a lot that you don't know about the field, and I would encourage you to do more research before being so set on a specific path.

Maybe you did not read all my replies. I stated that I loved the research aspect of Clinical Psychology and I love learning about disorders, disorder treatments, and making psychological evaluations. Yes I was confused about School Psychology and Clinical Psychology and which route to go, but I am not confused on the roles of each. I work very closely with Clinical Psychologists right now and I do ask lots of questions. I am perfectly fine with doing research, I have no clue as to why you would think I dislike it. I stated that I work with advisors that are Clinical Psychologists. I read a lot about Clinical Programs and I know there is plenty of research involved and projects. I am excited about that.

Psychology is the only path for me. I am a minor in Early Childhood Ed, so my options are quite direct for psychology. I planned on doing Clinical regardless, I just wanted other opinions. Thank you for your response.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Maybe you did not read all my replies. I stated that I loved the research aspect of Clinical Psychology and I love learning about disorders, disorder treatments, and making psychological evaluations. Yes I was confused about School Psychology and Clinical Psychology and which route to go, but I am not confused on the roles of each. I work very closely with Clinical Psychologists right now and I do ask lots of questions. I am perfectly fine with doing research, I have no clue as to why you would think I dislike it. I stated that I work with advisors that are Clinical Psychologists. I read a lot about Clinical Programs and I know there is plenty of research involved and projects. I am excited about that.

Psychology is the only path for me. I am a minor in Early Childhood Ed, so my options are quite direct for psychology. I planned on doing Clinical regardless, I just wanted other opinions. Thank you for your response.

The poster didn't say that you weren't interested in research or being a clinical psychologist. They were just trying to explain how you get into an extremely competitive PhD program in clinical psychology and pointing out that they are funded so you don't pay tuition. Not saying that you would say this in your application, but if you told them your career goal was to be an academic adviser, most programs would not want to use their spot for you. When I searched for jobs for academic advisers in Florida the salary was about 30-40k, that doesn't sound like they are hiring clinical psychologists for these positions.

There are psychologists that work at schools, I have been one myself, but they do a lot more than academic advising. I work with teens a lot and it is always fun to help them plan for their future and it can be a target for psychotherapy to help them remove obstacles and overcome self-defeating cognitions and anxiety about the process. Much of the time when I am working with teens though, we are much more focused on improving present function because if they can't function now, no amount of planning for the future will help.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Something to keep in mind RE: out of state tuition is that if you're admitted to a funded programs, it's generally a moot point, as you'll likely be counted as an in-state resident and provided with tuition remission (and a stipend). Even in unfunded programs, you may still count as in-state, although I honestly don't know that there's a difference in the total tuition between in- and out-of-state doctoral students for those programs (e.g., if I'm remembering correctly, programs such as Nova Southeastern or PGSP, for example, charge the same tuition for all students).

Edit: I see psycscientist already addressed my points above, but I'll still leave the info here, just in case.

 

[clinpsyc87]

Honestly as defensive as OP sounds my advice is that she is guaranteed to get into FIU, and as applying to other programs is expensive I wouldn't bother. The competition has no chance, tell the program you want to get your PhD to do academic advising and they will for sure 100% take you. Remember us on your way to the top.

 

[schoolpsy21]

Response for some saying "School Psychology does not do academic advising":
School Psychology can get me hired as an academic advisor. That's what I meant. I work in the advisement office now and there are plenty of them that are either School Psychologist or Clinical Psychologist.

I would love to thank you all for the responses. I decided on getting a PhD in Clinical Psychology with Child and Adolescence specialization. Still confused on the masters part but I'm thinking M.A or Ed.S in School Psychology or School Counseling.

95%+ of your credits from a masters/specialist level school psychology or counseling program will not transfer to a PhD in Clinical Psychology, so that's just a waste of time. And the large large large majority of school psychologists do not do academic advising, we're not really trained for that at the K-12 level let alone the university level.

 

[Aestheticism]

95%+ of your credits from a masters/specialist level school psychology or counseling program will not transfer to a PhD in Clinical Psychology, so that's just a waste of time. And the large large large majority of school psychologists do not do academic advising, we're not really trained for that at the K-12 level let alone the university level.

I am not saying that Clinical Psychologist are trained in academic advising or anything. My point was that I work with clinical psychologist that do academic advising. They have told me not to do Clinical Psychology if I want to 'just' become an advisor because you will not get paid the amount that you're worth. So I'm going to stick to the Ph.D Clinical Psychology to become a psychologist. I'm just unsure of if it's worth it to get a master's or just go straight into the doctorate with research experience, etc.

 

[Aestheticism]

Honestly as defensive as OP sounds my advice is that she is guaranteed to get into FIU, and as applying to other programs is expensive I wouldn't bother. The competition has no chance, tell the program you want to get your PhD to do academic advising and they will for sure 100% take you. Remember us on your way to the top.

Thank you lol. I think I'm going to steer off from the academic advising. I did some more research and I'm going to stick with my first gut of becoming a Child Psychologist. I plan to minor in Early Childhood Ed. during my bachelor's. Would that be a smart idea?

 

[Aestheticism]

The poster didn't say that you weren't interested in research or being a clinical psychologist. They were just trying to explain how you get into an extremely competitive PhD program in clinical psychology and pointing out that they are funded so you don't pay tuition. Not saying that you would say this in your application, but if you told them your career goal was to be an academic adviser, most programs would not want to use their spot for you. When I searched for jobs for academic advisers in Florida the salary was about 30-40k, that doesn't sound like they are hiring clinical psychologists for these positions.

There are psychologists that work at schools, I have been one myself, but they do a lot more than academic advising. I work with teens a lot and it is always fun to help them plan for their future and it can be a target for psychotherapy to help them remove obstacles and overcome self-defeating cognitions and anxiety about the process. Much of the time when I am working with teens though, we are much more focused on improving present function because if they can't function now, no amount of planning for the future will help.

I changed my mind with the academic advising, I thought more about it and it's not really worth it based on what I want to do. *The clinical psychologist degree professionals that work at my school in academic advising do make around 30k-50k*.

I still plan on achieving a Ph.D in Clinical Psychology for children and teenagers. But I'm confused about the whole master's degree. Is it worth it to spend 2-3 years getting a master's or is it better to do research, work with psychologists, etc., during my bachelors and apply straight to a doctorate program?

 

[smalltownpsych]

No need to get the masters, do the latter. Also keep in mind that most clinical programs will include both adult and adolescent exposure. Although that new FIU program appears to be an exception to that. I think it is good to have adult experience though because a good child and adolescent psychologist has to work the parents too. Also, you might even change your mind down the road and it is good to keep both options open. I was dead set against adolescent work when I started my doctoral program and now it is my specialty.

 

[Aestheticism]

No need to get the masters, do the latter. Also keep in mind that most clinical programs will include both adult and adolescent exposure. Although that new FIU program appears to be an exception to that. I think it is good to have adult experience though because a good child and adolescent psychologist has to work the parents too. Also, you might even change your mind down the road and it is good to keep both options open. I was dead set against adolescent work when I started my doctoral program and now it is my specialty.

Thank you! I just posted a new thread with this question and you answered it lol.
But yes, I planned to attend FIU for the doctorate program but it appeared strictly for children and teens and I kind of wanted a more variety even though that is my target. Just in case I changed my mind, you know? I totally agree with everything you have said though

Do you mind answering my three questions on my new thread? I would love to hear your opinion on a few things, thank you love.

 

[erg923]

*The clinical psychologist degree professionals that work at my school in academic advising do make around 30k-50k*.?

Can you clarify this? They have PhDs but aren't using them? Why? Not licensed? Changed their mind? Can't find jobs?

Btw, FIUs program is a clinical science model. It's probably not an advisable route for those not interested in academia and research oriented careers.

 

[Aestheticism]

Can you clarify this? They have PhDs but aren't using them? Why? Not licensed? Changed their mind? Can't find jobs?

Btw, FIUs program is a clinical science model. It's probably not an advisable route for those not interested in academia and research oriented careers.

I have no clue why some of them aren't using it or if they were psychologists in the pass and decided to become advisors. But I know in the school systems they will not pay a clinical psychologists the amount they deserve if they are hired as advisors. So they would make 30k-60k instead of 60k-80k.

 

[Aestheticism]

You should not apply to a doctoral program based on one thing alone. Do you have specific research interests that are a match for a faculty member at FIU? You should plan to apply to 10-15 programs nationally. As I said earlier, admittance is largely based on the RESEARCH interest fit between you and your prospective mentor. The way to identify programs to apply to would first be to decide what your specific research interests are (psychopathology in kids and teens is not specific enough). Once you have done this, you can then look into programs that have faculty doing research in your desired area. You will then need to make a decision about what your career goals are in order to narrow down the type of programs you apply to. If you do not want to be doing research primarily as a career once you graduate, then it would not be wise to apply to clinical science programs like FIU, as their goal is to train researchers (not practitioners). This is not like undergrad where you just pick schools to apply to based on broad criteria. You need to have a very specific case for fit in order to be successful when it comes time to apply.

Okay I understand what you are saying. I will look into research interests and look into mentors in those interests as well. I'm applying to UCF so hopefully I get accepted. They have a PhD program for general clinical psychology and they have labs where students can conduct research in.

 

[Aestheticism]

No need to get the masters, do the latter. Also keep in mind that most clinical programs will include both adult and adolescent exposure. Although that new FIU program appears to be an exception to that. I think it is good to have adult experience though because a good child and adolescent psychologist has to work the parents too. Also, you might even change your mind down the road and it is good to keep both options open. I was dead set against adolescent work when I started my doctoral program and now it is my specialty.

Thank you and okay I will surely keep my options open.

 

[clinpsyc87]

I feel like the "clinical psychology degree professionals" who do academic advising are probably ms graduates, and find it highly unlikely that they are licensed clinical psychologists. The clinical psychology PhD STUDENTS in my old program did a fair amount of departmental advising while students, but none continued after graduation

 

[Aestheticism]

I feel like the "clinical psychology degree professionals" who do academic advising are probably ms graduates, and find it highly unlikely that they are licensed clinical psychologists. The clinical psychology PhD STUDENTS in my old program did a fair amount of departmental advising while students, but none continued after graduation

No. I asked and they're all called Dr. They are licensed, received a PhD, etc. I think they do psychology and academic advising but I'm not sure because they are full-time advisers.

 

[smalltownpsych]

It is hard to comprehend a licensed psychologist taking a position as an academic adviser for that type of salary. There are much better opportunities that involve helping kids that also pay well and utilize all of our skills.

 

[WisNeuro]

I have no clue why some of them aren't using it or if they were psychologists in the pass and decided to become advisors. But I know in the school systems they will not pay a clinical psychologists the amount they deserve if they are hired as advisors. So they would make 30k-60k instead of 60k-80k.

They don't deserve the 60-80k here just because they have that degree. They are paid the going rate for that position. If I were hiring for that position, why would I pay someone twice the salary for a position when I had plenty of people just as qualified who will do the job for much less pay?