Graduating in 3 years, applying after sophomore year: am I at a disadvantage?

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raltima07

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What are my chances for medical schools? My dream school is Mayo or UPitt, but anywhere goes. Also, Since I am graduating in 3 years and applying after 2, does that lower my chances of admission?
Assuming a decent MCAT score, based on your ECs and current GPAs, I think you'll measure up well compared to a typical end-of-junior-year applicant when it comes to getting an acceptance somewhere.

Logically, you'll be at some relative disadvantage, as your application would be stronger if your research became more substantive, you got a publication accepted, you achieved more good through your leadership roles, etc. You don't have to stay in school to continue building your ECs, though.

I don't think you're more likely to get a great scholarship if you wait (they are far and few between these days), but the most-highly-selective schools would probably like your ECs better. Is it worth waiting? You have to judge whether a somewhat higher chance of achieving your ambition of Mayo or Pitt are worth another year of application building which may not pan out. We can't answer that question for you.
 
Assuming a decent MCAT score, based on your ECs and current GPAs, I think you'll measure up well compared to a typical end-of-junior-year applicant when it comes to getting an acceptance somewhere.

Logically, you'll be at some relative disadvantage, as your application would be stronger if your research became more substantive, you got a publication accepted, you achieved more good through your leadership roles, etc. You don't have to stay in school to continue building your ECs, though.

I don't think you're more likely to get a great scholarship if you wait (they are far and few between these days), but the most-highly-selective schools would probably like your ECs better. Is it worth waiting? You have to judge whether a somewhat higher chance of achieving your ambition of Mayo or Pitt are worth another year of application building which may not pan out. We can't answer that question for you.

Thank you for your response - I really appreciate it. A few questions:

1. What would you say a decent MCAT score is? What about a score that would give me a good shot at the top schools?

2. Supposing I delay a year, where could I improve my application? Are there any weaknesses (besides, as you pointed out, research)? What activities could I do to improve that would substantially improve my chances?

3. What would you say my chances are at top programs (like mayo and pitt) right now? I think I have a decent amount of everything, but what could I do this year for improving my chances?

4. You said I would measure up well against a end of junior year applicant in terms of getting an admission somewhere. Isn't this my main competition at the top schools?

Thank you for your help and sorry to be a bother.
 
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1. What would you say a decent MCAT score is? What about a score that would give me a good shot at the top schools?

2. Supposing I delay a year, where could I improve my application? Are there any weaknesses (besides, as you pointed out, research)? What activities could I do to improve that would substantially improve my chances?

3. What would you say my chances are at top programs (like mayo and pitt) right now? I think I have a decent amount of everything, but what could I do this year for improving my chances?

4. You said I would measure up well against a end of junior year applicant in terms of getting an admission somewhere. Isn't this my main competition at the top schools?
1) 35+ is a good goal for top schools or California schools.

2) Use your leadership to create an organization that spreads beyond campus, attracts many members, and will last after you leave. Helping the poor is perceived as a particularly good outcome.

3) I think you're a decent candidate for those schools now, baring MCAT scor being unknown. But both schools particularly treasure strong research, so the more you accomplish in that area the better, including taking on your own project that you write grant requests for, design, and implement, then write up on your own (with the backing of well-known faculty, of course).

4) The "average" junior year applicant doen't stand a chance of a top-school acceptance.
 
1) 35+ is a good goal for top schools or California schools.

2) Use your leadership to create an organization that spreads beyond campus, attracts many members, and will last after you leave. Helping the poor is perceived as a particularly good outcome.

3) I think you're a decent candidate for those schools now, baring MCAT scor being unknown. But both schools particularly treasure strong research, so the more you accomplish in that area the better, including taking on your own project that you write grant requests for, design, and implement, then write up on your own (with the backing of well-known faculty, of course).

4) The "average" junior year applicant doen't stand a chance of a top-school acceptance.

Thank you for being so helpful and illuminating, I really appreciate it.

1)35+ sounds good, obviously i'll set my goal to 36ish, but if it was that easy, everyone would do it.


2) My current leadership includes something like you stated - I set up something across different colleges (3) and attracted volunteers. Is that not enough or should I do something else? I am also on the board of a club and a non-profit organization.

3) In terms of the research thing, I currently have my own project in the lab, and I will be trying to get grant funding from the school for the summer (does this count towards what you were saying)? I design the experiments and carry them out, then report to my PI. The key thing missing is the publication, but that is a lot of luck, IMO. I do put in a lot of time.

4) In terms of improving my application in terms of clinical experiennce or community service, do you have any recommendations that could make a impact on my chances?




I have a pro's and con's chart of graduating in 3 vs. 4 years - could you critique it/add something that might be missing?

3 years:
PRO
1 year early
Save 1 year of tuition
CON
Might be less desirable for top program

4 Years:
PRO
Possibly stronger app due to more research (possible pub), clinical, ect.
1 more year of grades (hopefully pushing to 3.9GPA)
Longer EC lengths
CON
1 year of tuition
Possibly no benefit to application if things don't fall correctly
 
2) I think your leadership is pretty good already.

3) Yes, especially if you are competing with others to get the funding.

4) Hands-on service to the poor is highly regarded. Are you doing any of that? I am not referring to fund raising here. I mean something like a soup kitchen.

5) Another "con" of early graduation often pointed out by other SDNers than myself is losing the opportunities available on a campus: taking classes for fun, greater social opportunities, enjoying the last carefree year of your life.

I'm a big fan of saving a year's worth of tuition. But recall what I said above. You can graduate and still take that extra year of time to build your application.

It's a tough decision to weigh expediency (getting on with one's life) against ambition. You might decide to proceed with an application this summer and still get an acceptance to a school that will satisfy your interest in attending a perceived-to-be-better med school. You might decide to wait and still not achieve your dream, but be able to say, "at least i gave it my best."

Personally, I'd just apply, but that's me. Whatever you decide, let it be your decison, unprompted by the input of family members.
 
2) I think your leadership is pretty good already.

3) Yes, especially if you are competing with others to get the funding.

4) Hands-on service to the poor is highly regarded. Are you doing any of that? I am not referring to fund raising here. I mean something like a soup kitchen.

5) Another "con" of early graduation often pointed out by other SDNers than myself is losing the opportunities available on a campus: taking classes for fun, greater social opportunities, enjoying the last carefree year of your life.

I'm a big fan of saving a year's worth of tuition. But recall what I said above. You can graduate and still take that extra year of time to build your application.

It's a tough decision to weigh expediency (getting on with one's life) against ambition. You might decide to proceed with an application this summer and still get an acceptance to a school that will satisfy your interest in attending a perceived-to-be-better med school. You might decide to wait and still not achieve your dream, but be able to say, "at least i gave it my best."

Personally, I'd just apply, but that's me. Whatever you decide, let it be your decison, unprompted by the input of family members.


Your right - it is a very tough decision! I don't want to do something that would hurt me, but on the same time, I see what your saying.

Could you just read over my AMCAS entry for research (paraphrased a bit)?


Worked in a toxicology lab for 20 hours a week. I was in charge of my own project, and designed and carried out experiemnts, reporting my results to the PI. In the summer of 2011, I was chosen for a summer grant for my research from my school, one of the 5 selected out of a group of 30. My work resulted in a poster presentation at Columbia University Undergrad research synopsium.


Would this be something that would put me in a good light at the top research schools? Would you suggest rewriting that another way?

I have not really done any "soup kitchen" type work - I guess I'll get on that to maybe strengthn my app some more. How many hours would you suggest?


Thank you for your help!
 
If you want to aim for research-strong schools, your entry should be more specific about the hypothesis you wanted to test and activities you personally performed (PCR, gels, etc). If your poster was not presented on your own campus, it deserves it's own entry which would be highly specific and have the name of the project, so don't duplicate info too much. It's OK for one entry to refer to the other on the application. If you did present on your own campus, I'd suggest trying very hard to do sufficently substative work that you can present at a regional or national meeting, which gets you more points.

There are many, many agencies that help the poor. It would be best if you find one that is personally meaningful for you, perhaps an extension of another activity. About 2-4 hours weekly or twice monthly until you submit, is good, but for the sake of update letters and interview conversations, I advise you to continue the activity through the application year, too, just as I presume you will with the research.
 
If you want to aim for research-strong schools, your entry should be more specific about the hypothesis you wanted to test and activities you personally performed (PCR, gels, etc). If your poster was not presented on your own campus, it deserves it's own entry which would be highly specific and have the name of the project, so don't duplicate info too much. It's OK for one entry to refer to the other on the application. If you did present on your own campus, I'd suggest trying very hard to do sufficently substative work that you can present at a regional or national meeting, which gets you more points.

So would this be a better entry:
Role of Snake Venom on B934 gene
12 hours a week
Worked in a toxicology lab testing whether X snake venom activated and regulated B934 Gene. This was done using a variety of different experimental techniques; I used western blotting, gel electrophoresis, and real time pcr in order to test for gene regulation. I helped design the experiments and analyze their results. I presented my results at the columbia undergraduate research synopsium (national) - CITED PRESENTATION.

Would that be a good, solid entry which would make me look highly "researchy" and help me at the top medical schools? Or should I write it a different way/include different things?

Also, for the case report I have - should I make that its own section or should I just tie it into my hospital duties?


Catalystik said:
There are many, many agencies that help the poor. It would be best if you find one that is personally meaningful for you, perhaps an extension of another activity. About 2-4 hours weekly or twice monthly until you submit, is good, but for the sake of update letters and interview conversations, I advise you to continue the activity through the application year, too, just as I presume you will with the research.

Yes, I will continue (to infinity and beyond!) my work until I graduate, because it is something I do because I enjoy it (research).


Thank you for your help!
 
1) So would this be a better entry:
Role of Snake Venom on B934 gene
12 hours a week
Worked in a toxicology lab testing whether X snake venom activated and regulated B934 Gene. This was done using a variety of different experimental techniques; I used western blotting, gel electrophoresis, and real time pcr in order to test for gene regulation. I helped design the experiments and analyze their results. I presented my results at the columbia undergraduate research synopsium (national) - CITED PRESENTATION.

Would that be a good, solid entry which would make me look highly "researchy" and help me at the top medical schools? Or should I write it a different way/include different things?

2) Also, for the case report I have - should I make that its own section or should I just tie it into my hospital duties?
1) Your Research narrative is moving in the right direction. I'm sure it will evolve and become better yet as you edit, and run it by your PI and prehealth advisor. In the Presentation where you cite the title of your poster, you can give the results of the research, why we care about activating the gene, and maybe even its implications for human medicine, if any (ie a conclusion).

2) While a case report doesn't carry the weight of an original research publication, it is still an accomplishment to be listed on its own under Publications.
 
1) Your Research narrative is moving in the right direction. I'm sure it will evolve and become better yet as you edit, and run it by your PI and prehealth advisor. In the Presentation where you cite the title of your poster, you can give the results of the research, why we care about activating the gene, and maybe even its implications for human medicine, if any (ie a conclusion).

2) While a case report doesn't carry the weight of an original research publication, it is still an accomplishment to be listed on its own under Publications.


So the poster would include all the 'results' - got it.

If it wasn't for you, I would never have described my research like this. I really appreciate the information that you have imparted to me. In terms of all the other entrys, I guess they will be of a similar format'?
 
Succinct entries are generally the way to go, but when applying to research-strong institutions more detail is indicated in that category. One's interviewer may be chosen specifically because of a common field and their ability to delve into your thinking and be sure you're what they're looking for. It's completely up to you to decide how much detail to include. If you're overly descriptive though, the adcomm reader may get bored and you don't want to do that.

BTW, you can use bullets or narrative, whichever style brings your ideas across the best. If you have some free time, read through this thread for ideas on how to list everything: Tips for filling out AMCAS Experiences: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=202513
 
I don't think you're more likely to get a great scholarship if you wait (they are far and few between these days), but the most-highly-selective schools would probably like your ECs better. Is it worth waiting? You have to judge whether a somewhat higher chance of achieving your ambition of Mayo or Pitt are worth another year of application building which may not pan out. We can't answer that question for you.


Cat, if you come back and read this, I just wanted to know I followed your advice and applied this year. I also have interviews at Pitt and Mayo. Best of both worlds :) - now I just have to get in.

Thanks for your help!
 
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