Gunners say the darndest things!

[BeastInfection]

This x 2.

You guys are being way too stringent with the definition of gunner. This might be it's original meaning, but over time with common usage slang/labels tend to morph into something different, or expand to include those who exhibit characteristics that align them with the original group (whether they're part of that original group or not doesn't matter).

Do you all insist that "bro" only be used to describe someone who is actively involved in a fraternity?

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[SpecterGT260]

).

Do you all insist that "bro" only be used to describe someone who is actively involved in a fraternity?

Yea. Because hipsters like to throw it on anyone who doesn't wear flannel in August.

 

[username456789]

You guys are being way too stringent with the definition of gunner. This might be it's original meaning, but over time with common usage slang/labels tend to morph into something different, or expand to include those who exhibit characteristics that align them with the original group (whether they're part of that original group or not doesn't matter).

No.

 

[kpcrew]

Not really, the term has negative connotations that were associated with people that would do whatever it takes to get ahead but is now being applied to those who spend a lot of time studying and working hard. Why should those who prioritize learning be derided?

 

[BeastInfection]

Yea. Because hipsters like to throw it on anyone who doesn't wear flannel in August.

Well I mean in the more derogatory sense.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Not really, the term has negative connotations that were associated with people that would do whatever it takes to get ahead but is now being applied to those who spend a lot of time studying and working hard. Why should those who prioritize learning be derided?

I will say that there is a group of people who downplay their work effort and/or complain about worrying about failing even when honoring. I think those people were the focus of this thread. We should coin them a name.

 

[BeastInfection]

No.

Yes.

 

[TheNextLevel]

Not really, the term has negative connotations that were associated with people that would do whatever it takes to get ahead but is now being applied to those who spend a lot of time studying and working hard. Why should those who prioritize learning be derided?

This -- and it's surprising how early it starts. I was recently asked by an incoming first year if there were a lot of "gunners" in my class. When I asked him what he meant by this he said, "You know, people who spend all their time in the library studying."

It seems to have shifted in definition from someone who goes out of there way to screw others in classes or on the wards to now defining anyone who works hard and excels (to the benefit of their teammates and future patients)

I can't think of a single time in 3 years of medical school where someone has directly interfered with my success by being competitive. People have tried or done minor detrimental things accidentally out of insecurity, but residents and attendings are not stupid. If you do your work and you do it well, you will excel. I think there are a lot of insecure people in medical school.

 

[kpcrew]

Yes.

When I'm a patient, it's going to be really terrible if I get a doctor who spent all his time studying in medical school. Can you imagine if I have some obscure disease and he diagnoses me correctly? Horrific. I'll be all like hey man you should have spent more time drinking alcohol and hanging out with people, not learning all this crap that could possibly save my life.

 

[evilbooyaa]

If the definition of gunner is someone who studies a lot, then I don't care if people are gunners.

If the definition of gunner is someone who throws people under the bus, then I DO care if people are gunners.

I think that's the outlook people should have.

Whoever is saying to make fun of gunners (with respect to the first definition) is absolutely outrageous.

While I won't necessarily think more of someone I worked with studied who their ass off all day everyday even during MS1/MS2, I sure as hell won't think LESS of them for doing what they needed to do to succeed during the first 2 years of medical school.

Basically, if you're not a friend of mine and a gunner (by definition of someone who studies a lot) then cool, keep doing what you're doing, doesn't bother me. If you ARE a friend of mine and a gunner who isn't going to go out with us after a block exam (even though I know you have fun doing so), I will call you a gunner in an attempt to get you to come out with us. I probably won't remember a year from now that you stayed in to study after a block exam, and long-term it won't matter.

 

[BeastInfection]

When I'm a patient, it's going to be really terrible if I get a doctor who spent all his time studying in medical school. Can you imagine if I have some obscure disease and he diagnoses me correctly? Horrific. I'll be all like hey man you should have spent more time drinking alcohol and hanging out with people, not learning all this crap that could possibly save my life.

Hey, I'm not saying that I agree with the way that "gunner" is commonly defined, and I sure as hell don't agree that "gunner" equates to "someone who works hard"--if that were the case, I'd say virtually every person who is successful in medical school (and even most who aren't) are "gunners". I'm just saying that after such widespread use, it's changed a bit and has become more of a blanket term, stretching to some people who don't go so far as the try to screw their classmates.

Ultimately, it's a really silly thing to argue about. It's a stupid term that doesn't even have a concrete definition (at least in this context), and one that I've never used and is just about as trite as terms like "douchebag".

 

[ArcGurren]

Hey, I'm not saying that I agree with the way that "gunner" is commonly defined, and I sure as hell don't agree that "gunner" equates to "someone who works hard"--if that were the case, I'd say virtually every person who is successful in medical school (and even most who aren't) are "gunners". I'm just saying that after such widespread use, it's changed a bit and has become more of a blanket term, stretching to some people who don't go so far as the try to screw their classmates.

Ultimately, it's a really silly thing to argue about. It's a stupid term that doesn't even have a concrete definition (at least in this context), and one that I've never used and is just about as trite as terms like "douchebag".

We really shouldn't be encouraging the widespread use of the term as it exists colloquially amongst some medical students as you're describing, because in addition to being inexact and incorrect, it doesn't highlight the bad stuff that actual gunners do, and it certainly perpetuates this culture of mediocrity that exists in this country.

I'm not AOA (or even a candidate for senior AOA at this point) and I found little use in it. I never cared or wanted to be AOA because my career goals were geared around not caring whether I was the best of the best - I just wanted to match to a reasonably good program in the field of my choice. I have a friend who was absolutely shooting for AOA and wanted to match the top program of his chosen specialty (ended up being a surgical subspecialty) and he managed it - all the while helping me and his friends out with studying and being a generally all around good guy. I would NEVER call him a gunner, so why the hell should anyone else?

 

[username456789]

Yes.

Still no, but you're well within your rights to be wrong and not care.

 

[BeastInfection]

Still no, but you're well within your rights to be wrong and not care.

This is what's silly--there is no objective right or wrong. Show me the definition of "gunner", refer me to the original source. It's being unnecessarily rigid to refuse to believe that a slang word--or even an actual, objectively defined word--can't change over time.

 

[KnuxNole]

People who study a lot/all day is fine by mine. Whatever they do, is none of my business. They are usually near the top of the class rank. The people at the very top are the naturally gifted who kill exams with no effort eek:

The people that are eye-rolling inducers are the ones who study all day, brag about it, think they are better than others, and assume they are perfect. Those aren't "gunners" but uggo freaks.

 

[chemsmith]

Yea. Because hipsters like to throw it on anyone who doesn't wear flannel in August.

nah, the bros are all hip to to the hipster wear now, they love urban outfitters

 

[BeastInfection]

nah, the bros are all hip to to the hipster wear now, they love urban outfitters

I think most things you'd see at Urban Outfitters a bro would call you numerous homophobic slurs for wearing. 5 years down the line--once the trend has long since passed and hipsters have moved on to the next one--that's when the bros pick it up and suddenly think it's badass.

 

[SpecterGT260]

I think most things you'd see at Urban Outfitters a bro would call you numerous homophobic slurs for wearing. 5 years down the line--once the trend has long since passed and hipsters have moved on to the next one--that's when the bros pick it up and suddenly think it's badass.

I can't wait till they are wearing skinny jeans

 

[BeastInfection]

I can't wait till they are wearing skinny jeans

Heh. That one seems to be sticking with hipsters for longer than anticipated, but it's just a matter of time. I've already noticed bros' pant legs getting thinner and thinner. Can't just jump into these things.

 

[Perrotfish]

It seems to have shifted in definition from someone who goes out of there way to screw others in classes or on the wards to now defining anyone who works hard and excels (to the benefit of their teammates and future patients)
.

Like I said, I think the current use is something intermediate between the two: someone who has an unhealthy emotional relationship with their performance as measured against their classmates. People who allow their grades to stop being a means to an end and to become an end in and of itself. People who define themselves as better or worse than their peers based on test scores and honors. People who study compulsively, and then cry after the test because they got a 94, because they've completely forgotten how to have goals that aren't defined by being 'better' than the guy next to you. This attiude is unhealthy because it not only robs you of your preclinical years, but can lead people to claw their way into 'prestigious' fields that force them to keep up that life swallowing workload indefinitely.

Also I'm not sure what the origional definition of gunner was, but it certainly seems like people have been calling the grade obsessed gunners since at least the founding of this website. In any event it's slang, its never been in a dictionary and the meaning evolves with time. It also makes more sense to use the word for the grade obsessed. People that 'gun down' the competition already have dozens of names: backstabber, two-faced, selfish, asshat, whatever. We don't need another, medical specific name for an ******* when the word ******* already works so well.

 

[Slack3r]

I will say that there is a group of people who downplay their work effort and/or complain about worrying about failing even when honoring. I think those people were the focus of this thread. We should coin them a name.

Tools?

 

[PikminOC]

All I know is I was a gunner until i hit med school. Then the level of gunner exponentially increased and i was avg.

 

[FSU2013]

I will flat out say that I would probably not have done as well on Step I and would not have been AOA and would not have matched into derm if I had the mentality that first/second year grades didn't matter.

And before someone says "well that's for derm, I'm not interested in that", keep in mind that if you set yourself up to be someone who - on paper - could reasonably apply for derm even though you're applying for something less competitive, you've likely pretty much set yourself up to pick your residency.

I didn't even decide on derm until late late 3rd year. But I did know that even if I ended up applying for something traditionally much less competitive, I wanted to know as much as I could to be a doctor and be able to feel competitive regardless of what specialty it was.

This.

I was planning on going into Radonc for the first three years of med school. I planned accordingly, studied a ton for my first two years and Step 1, busted my butt third year, studied a ton for Step 2 at the end of third year. I changed my mind and I'm going into EM. Having good grades/step scores/etc on my side is making my life much easier.

 

[Unzbuzzled]

Classmates who correct you when you ask the professor a question about a difficult concept after class are gunners. Classmates who critique your wording in front of the doctor when you are in your clinical encounters class are gunners. Classmates who leave their jackets and notebooks in the few quiet study rooms with the flat panel TVs are gunners. Classmates who tear pages out of library atlases instead of just making a copy are gunners. The person who loves to brag about his/her A on the exam everyone bombed is NOT a gunner, but just a giant toolbag. All gunners are butt holes but not every butt hole is a gunner. However, whether you are a gunner butt hole or just a butt hole, chances are you'll end up with few friends when friday night rolls around. I've also found that a lot of people who brag about their academics are just lying to make themselves feel special. Med school is full of insecure people who try to work hard because they were never told they were good enough growing up. This isn't the case for the majority of people, but for some it is. They want the MD after their name so people finally respect them (a giant misconception indeed). Lots of daddy issues. So while some people will inevitably be douchey in med school, you should keep in mind they are usually douchey for a reason. Gunners are the worst type of douche though, because they screw over other people who could otherwise just avoid them.

 

[normtheniner]

I get tired of the people who always ask what you got on an exam when grades are up. I've started replying with "265" which makes no sense but I feel like it messes with their heads a little as far as that being a really good step score.

 

[Fatalis]

Classmates who correct you when you ask the professor a question about a difficult concept after class are gunners. Classmates who critique your wording in front of the doctor when you are in your clinical encounters class are gunners. Classmates who leave their jackets and notebooks in the few quiet study rooms with the flat panel TVs are gunners. Classmates who tear pages out of library atlases instead of just making a copy are gunners. The person who loves to brag about his/her A on the exam everyone bombed is NOT a gunner, but just a giant toolbag. All gunners are butt holes but not every butt hole is a gunner. However, whether you are a gunner butt hole or just a butt hole, chances are you'll end up with few friends when friday night rolls around. I've also found that a lot of people who brag about their academics are just lying to make themselves feel special. Med school is full of insecure people who try to work hard because they were never told they were good enough growing up. This isn't the case for the majority of people, but for some it is. They want the MD after their name so people finally respect them (a giant misconception indeed). Lots of daddy issues. So while some people will inevitably be douchey in med school, you should keep in mind they are usually douchey for a reason. Gunners are the worst type of douche though, because they screw over other people who could otherwise just avoid them.

-This is the exact definition of a gunner that I was referring to when I started this thread lol