Harvard vs UW?? Help...

[RENNOZ]

Hey everyone! I'm trying to get some opinions from dental students just like you guys who are applying to specialty programs. I got accepted into both Harvard and UW for the DMD/DDS program, and now am confused in deciding which one is the right school for me. I do have an interest to specialize; however, I also want to be a good clinician after graduating from dental school. Money is also an issue because I know for sure that I'll be taking loans for the $120,000 4-year student budget at UW or the $270,00 4-year student budget at Harvard. I realize that the decision is ultimately mine to make, but I definitely need some of your insights. Thanks!

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[vorosvirag]

If your family is paying for your education, then the decision may be harder (in my opinion). If you will re-pay those loans, the decision is suddenly simpler: UW. With that kind of difference in debt I wouldn't trouble myself w/ the specifics. Go w/ the Huskies.

 

[vorosvirag]

Congrats on your admission, by the way. You'll face similar dilemmas as you decide which specialty you want to pursue and where to do this training. Just do your best and try to keep options open. You've obviously already learned how to do this.

 

[Jaybe]

Hey everyone! I'm trying to get some opinions from dental students just like you guys who are applying to specialty programs. I got accepted into both Harvard and UW for the DMD/DDS program, and now am confused in deciding which one is the right school for me. I do have an interest to specialize; however, I also want to be a good clinician after graduating from dental school. Money is also an issue because I know for sure that I'll be taking loans for the $120,000 4-year student budget at UW or the $270,00 4-year student budget at Harvard. I realize that the decision is ultimately mine to make, but I definitely need some of your insights. Thanks!

UW. Hands Down. For Every Reason.

 

[cuneatus2]

Hey everyone! I'm trying to get some opinions from dental students just like you guys who are applying to specialty programs. I got accepted into both Harvard and UW for the DMD/DDS program, and now am confused in deciding which one is the right school for me. I do have an interest to specialize; however, I also want to be a good clinician after graduating from dental school. Money is also an issue because I know for sure that I'll be taking loans for the $120,000 4-year student budget at UW or the $270,00 4-year student budget at Harvard. I realize that the decision is ultimately mine to make, but I definitely need some of your insights. Thanks!

Th

 

[Jaybe]

This shouldn't even be a question IMO. UW is a better choice for the reasons you stated above. Somebody can enlighten me on this if I am wrong, but I have heard that Harvard grads don't have the best match rates for specialty programs.

That is correct.

 

[RENNOZ]

Really? I was told that HSDM has 88% match rate. And if I chose UW, Do I need to be in the top 10% to get into a specialty program?

 

[shabu2]

Really? I was told that HSDM has 88% match rate. And if I chose UW, Do I need to be in the top 10% to get into a specialty program?

Kinda True and True. Harvard, Columbia, and Uconn prepare you well for the boards and hence the increased in specialty rate, but if you do well on the boards you can apply to specialties no matter what school you attend. The other possible benefit of the three mentioned schools is no class rank and grades, where UW does. That means you have to do well on the boards and be in the top 10%. No true at Harvard, Columbia, Uconn.

 

[RENNOZ]

This is where I keep going back and forth. Do you think it's worth going to HSDM and having better chance getting into a specialty program or go to UW and save money?

 

[ajmacgregor]

That is INcorrect.

There, now the statement is correct...

To the OP, HSDM has a match rate for specialties that is better than almost any dental school in the US...This year alone, every applicant for ortho and endo matched (or was accepted)...something like 2/2 for endo and 7/7 or 8/8 for ortho...

I know from previous years that other specialties are similar...in the past few years, for example, the OMFS match results have been: UCSF, Oregon, MGH, UCLA, Houston, UPenn, UMDNJ, UConn

HSDM may not offer the best clinical exposure in terms of number of procedures required for graduation, but, in my experience working with HSDM grads who are GPR residents (by choice, not because they couldn't match elsewhere), they are just as well-trained clinically as graduates from many other schools and certainly know their didactics. At the end of the day, who you are as a person dictates your performance as a dentist much more than your dental school does.

Note: I am not advocating that you choose Harvard over UW - financially, you would be better off at UW. However, Jaybe's info is just flat out incorrect and HSDM deserves better than such misinformation.

Bottom-line: go wherever it is cheapest - study hard and you'll have no problem matching.

 

[dentalman]

I know that before dental school you have eyes filled with the future money you will make and think that the debt will be "no problem". I know that because I was that way as well. Let me say this: Although you should be able to live comfortably with some debt, think of how much money $150,000 REALLY is. What if you were to win that with a lottery ticket? Why is that the luckiest thing to happen with a lotto ticket, but for some reason when being a dentist it is not a lot of money? Don't fall into that trap. It IS a LOT of money. That's $17,724 a year in payments for 15 years, since the extra loans will be 8.5% with the federal grad plus. (I don't know what the limit is, after you max out on federal loans you have to do private loans which will be variable.) Anyway, there are a lot of variables, go here for different calculations:

http://www.finaid.org/calculators/loanpayments.phtml

But, let's say you would instead invest $17,700 a year for 15 years instead. Even in a personal account paying income taxes, assuming a 9% interest rate, that would climb to $452,000.

For more calculations, go here:

http://cgi.money.cnn.com/tools/savi...TaxDef=1&intPct=9&term=15&totReturn=&x=32&y=9

Of course, you realistically won't invest this money, but will instead buy a bigger house, or go on more vacations. But either way it is a lot of money. Anyway, it gives you more options of what you want to do with less debt.

As for specializing, PM me for more information. You have to work hard at either school to specialize, but UW definitely has a high specialization rate if you want to. (Although this year most of the class went into general by choice.) Either way, you need to ace boards part one. (And don't think one school is better than the other at board scores, it comes down to individual effort.)

You will be a fine dentist if you graduate from Harvard, but all you are really getting is more medical experience and the name, and a lot more debt. Is that worth it?

I am obviously very opinionated about this, so PM me if you want more recommendations for UW.

Congrats on your acceptances.

 

[dentalman]

Really? I was told that HSDM has 88% match rate. And if I chose UW, Do I need to be in the top 10% to get into a specialty program?

No. If you want statistics thrown around (which can be misleading), last year's class had 93% of specialties accepted (14 total) (including match and non-match - pre/post). 100% were accepted within the second try.

 

[barney12]

Hey everyone! I'm trying to get some opinions from dental students just like you guys who are applying to specialty programs. I got accepted into both Harvard and UW for the DMD/DDS program, and now am confused in deciding which one is the right school for me. I do have an interest to specialize; however, I also want to be a good clinician after graduating from dental school. Money is also an issue because I know for sure that I'll be taking loans for the $120,000 4-year student budget at UW or the $270,00 4-year student budget at Harvard. I realize that the decision is ultimately mine to make, but I definitely need some of your insights. Thanks!

UW is definately a better choice (yes, i am biased). Many UW grads go into specialties (between 25-50%). UW teaches you excellent quality dentistry--some of the greatest dentists are grads of UW--and prepares you well for the real world. If you need any detailed info on UW, drop me an email.

 

[Lesley]

Hey everyone! I'm trying to get some opinions from dental students just like you guys who are applying to specialty programs. I got accepted into both Harvard and UW for the DMD/DDS program, and now am confused in deciding which one is the right school for me. I do have an interest to specialize; however, I also want to be a good clinician after graduating from dental school. Money is also an issue because I know for sure that I'll be taking loans for the $120,000 4-year student budget at UW or the $270,00 4-year student budget at Harvard. I realize that the decision is ultimately mine to make, but I definitely need some of your insights. Thanks!

Congratulations! In many post graduate programs, residents are required to pay tuition for another 2-3 years.

If you are concerned about finances, which it seems like you are, putting yourself in a good position, going to a very reputable school like UW and savings some $$, for a possible residency in the future sounds like a good plan to me.

You are going to do very well at either school. You did good! Best Wishes.

 

[JRGoober]

so far harvard has 100% match for this year. 8/8 for ortho, and the 2 endo and 2 perio each were accepted to their top programs. obviously it depends on the people in each class, but i'd say it's worth it to not have to deal with grades and competing with your classmates like at uw. they say that it won't be an issue for any of us to pay back our loans...

 

[makushin]

No way I'd pay 150k for Harvard over UW. UW is a very respectable institution. Sure, it's not "ivy league", but this is not wall street. Be happy you have such a great instate option and take advantage of it. You can always frame your Harvard acceptance letter.

 

[dentalman]

they say that it won't be an issue for any of us to pay back our loans...

What else are they going to say? In that case, it will really won't "be an issue" if you had an extra $150,000.
The biggest plus for Harvard is not having grades ... but you pay a price for it. I'm sure you still have to study just as hard.

 

[S Files]

UW is definately a better choice (yes, i am biased). Many UW grads go into specialties (between 25-50%). UW teaches you excellent quality dentistry--some of the greatest dentists are grads of UW--and prepares you well for the real world. If you need any detailed info on UW, drop me an email.

this statement could be made for just about every dental school in the country.
back to the question imo both are great choices. i would consider finances to be important, family reasons, and personal decision (regarding where would you like to live for 4 yrs). in my travels thru the interview circuit (omfs and ortho), i ran into a disproportionately high number of harvard students. but that's just me. ultimately you can't go wrong here, and if you wanna specialize just destroy the boards. sure harvards greater detail in basic sciences give an edge on the boards, but nevertheless....again just destroy the boards and you can do that whether you go to UW or Harvard.

 

[RENNOZ]

BTW, thanks for all the replies!.. I think I have an idea on where I stand... I was wondering, how important is it to be in the top 10% to apply for a specialty program like ortho? If so, how hard is it to be in the top 10%? Last but not least, regarding to practical related stuff, is the grading subjective?

 

[scalpel2008]

BTW, thanks for all the replies!.. I think I have an idea on where I stand... I was wondering, how important is it to be in the top 10% to apply for a specialty program like ortho? If so, how hard is it to be in the top 10%? Last but not least, regarding to practical related stuff, is the grading subjective?

that was a big problem at my school. the school was divided into teams and there was an obvious disparity with grading and treatment planning between the teams. for example, the prosth instructor in my team thought that a set of dentures should require atleast 9 appointments.

 

[vorosvirag]

BTW, thanks for all the replies!.. I think I have an idea on where I stand... I was wondering, how important is it to be in the top 10% to apply for a specialty program like ortho? If so, how hard is it to be in the top 10%? Last but not least, regarding to practical related stuff, is the grading subjective?

Many of our clinics were pretty fair. However, Pros and Endo were less fair. If you were female, possessed the appropriate anatomy, and could present yourself just the right way you had few problems. Others were treated better for still other reasons.

So, yes, dental school can have it's subjective moments. The first two years are more objective. Crush the boards (entirely objective) and then do your best to make it through the last two years.

 

[Billy Gilmore]

Crush the boards (entirely objective) and then do your best to make it through the last two years.

Just curious, could someone define what it means to "crush the boards." I am interested in knowing what most people people think is an excellent score. I know 90 is the typical cut off mentioned for applying to very competitive schools, but what do you consider a great score?

Ah, the bliss of the final semester of school without a worry in the world.... truly makes you forget what the first two years were like.

 

[dentalman]

99 - "master of the boards universe"
95 - "crushed"
90 - "really good"
85 - "probably the lowest cutoff, better have other good qualities"
80 - "better luck next time"
75 - "sweet, I passed!"

 

[Jaybe]

99 - "master of the boards universe"
95 - "crushed"
90 - "really good"
85 - "probably the lowest cutoff, better have other good qualities"
80 - "better luck next time"
75 - "sweet, I passed!"

70 - "at least I didn't get an F minus. Pharmacy school, here I come!

 

[GatorDMD]

70 - "at least I didn't get an F minus. Pharmacy school, here I come!

huh?

 

[Jaybe]

huh?

Dude, it was a thinly veiled jab at Pharmacy school. If you fail boards, just go to Pharmacy School, get it?

 

[vorosvirag]

Just curious, could someone define what it means to "crush the boards." I am interested in knowing what most people people think is an excellent score. I know 90 is the typical cut off mentioned for applying to very competitive schools, but what do you consider a great score?

I think for you to set yourself apart w/ your board scores you've got to be in the upper percentiles. If you're first in your class that's pretty high in terms of percentiles. Fifth in the class is still outstanding, but first is best.

I don't remember how the scores break down according to percentiles, but if you score among the top 5% (probably 96+) on boards you've surely annihilated them.

As many have said ad nauseam, however, a well-rounded person is what they're looking for. But a 97 on boards will make the average well-rounded person look superior.

 

[S Files]

Dude, it was a thinly veiled jab at Pharmacy school. If you fail boards, just go to Pharmacy School, get it?

what about if you get amazing grades, but want to be a pharmacist?

 

[cuneatus2]

what about if you get amazing grades, but want to be a pharmacist?

Y

 

[wayoutwest]

I don't think the extra money is worth it, personally. Both are great choices...

 

[ajmacgregor]

I don't think the extra money is worth it, personally. Both are great choices...

For what it's worth, here's the HSDM Match list for this year...It would be interesting to see what UW's match list was, since everyone is talking about comparing specialty rates:

Class Size: 30

Ortho = 8 (UMDNJ, UCLA, Columbia x2, Illinois, Minnesota, Nova, University of Washington)
Endo = 2 (Florida, Tufts)
OMFS = 4 (UCSF, Mayo, Harvard/MGH x2)
Perio = 2 (UCLA, USC)
Pedo = 2 (Harvard/Boston Children's, USC)
AEGD/GPR = 7 (various)
Private Practice/Other = 4
Consulting/Business = 1

Through the grapevine, I heard everyone who applied matched. It looks like more than 50% specialize, and, among those, most do the "more competitive" specialties.

 

[RENNOZ]

does anyone know uw's match lists for 2006 and 2007? thanks

 

[angeeeeee]

I saw a post earlier saying UW is competitive. I beg to differ. We actually have someone in our class who transferred from Harvard...hmm.... Yes I am biased, but you need to pick what school is right for you. I absolutely love UWSoD. Feel free to email me with questions. [email protected]

 

[dorothyl]

I saw a post earlier saying UW is competitive. I beg to differ. We actually have someone in our class who transferred from Harvard...hmm.... Yes I am biased, but you need to pick what school is right for you. I absolutely love UWSoD. Feel free to email me with questions. [email protected]

This post is incredibly misleading. It suggests that the girl who transferred to UW from Harvard did so because she didn't like Harvard. I happen to know her personally and can vouch for the fact that the reason she transferred was for family (a family member was ill and she was from Washington).

As someone suggested earlier - post the UW match list. That will settle part of the debate.

 

[motörhead]

.

 

[dentalman]

These are from UW 2006. Only 1 or 2 people applied for specialties in 2007, so there may not be much to post for that. Different classes have different personalities.

Class size = 53
Ortho = 4/5
Endo = 2/2
OMFS = 1/1
Pedo = 7/7
AEGD/GPR = several
Private practice = majority

 

[RENNOZ]

These are from UW 2006. Only 1 or 2 people applied for specialties in 2007, so there may not be much to post for that. Different classes have different personalities.

Class size = 53
Ortho = 4/5
Endo = 2/2
OMFS = 1/1
Pedo = 7/7
AEGD/GPR = several
Private practice = majority

thanks dman!

 

[S Files]

These are from UW 2006. Only 1 or 2 people applied for specialties in 2007, so there may not be much to post for that. Different classes have different personalities.

Class size = 53
Ortho = 4/5
Endo = 2/2
OMFS = 1/1
Pedo = 7/7
AEGD/GPR = several
Private practice = majority

as an aside, way more ppl apply than we think. so the 4/5 number for example is likely incorrect (underestimated). a LOT of sleeper applicants. another stat is those people who've been out for a year or two, or in GPR/AEGD who got in. so take all these #'s w/ a grain of salt.

 

[angeeeeee]

I apologize that my previous post was misleading, but I don't know the circumstances pertaining to the transfer. However, if anyone does have any questions about UW, feel free to email me.