HELP!!! 4 year MD/MPH or MD @ U.Miami Miller SOM?

[Chasing Never Land]

Hi Everyone,

I'm posting because I'm in a unique dilemma, and would truly value your advice. I was recently accepted to both the 4yr MD/MPH and regular MD programs at University of Miami's Miller School of Medicine. I know that this is a wonderful problem to have. I'm also scared sh*tless, though, that I'll make the wrong decision and spend the next 4 yrs or more regretting it. Plus, once I choose my seat for the other program will open up for students on the alternate list, so I don't want to hold that up. Miami is very strict in allowing no switching between the two programs.

The MD-only is harder to get into, apparently, than the MD/MPH, but I don't know if that should influence my decision on what program to do. I am definitely interested in public health - but I also know you can do the MPH later, and many employers will pay for you to get it, too.

Here are my thoughts so far:

PROS of 4 Year MD/MPH:

• M1 Anatomy course spread over entire M1 year, instead of just first semester.
• Guaranteed $1000 grant for overseas global health experiences.
  
• Spending M3 and M4 @ the regional campus (instead of the main campus) would allow the student to get more hands-on learning experience.
  
  • Get to know those faculty better, potentially getting better LORs for residency apps.
• Housing in Palm Beach (M3 and M4) is cheaper than in Miami

CONS of 4 Year MD/MPH:

• Have to attend separate lecture series from MD track students in M1 and M2.
  
• You leave the main campus for M3 and M4, possibly losing social network. (This is a big worry for me, since I spent my childhood moving every 2 years, and value any opportunity to make longer term relationships and friendships).
• NEED a car for rotations, which can be spread out in Palm Beach county.
• No access to the 5-hospital arrangement like at the main campus - less spontaneous shadowing opportunities.
  
• According to MD/MPH students at my interview day, nearly impossible to do non-public health research.

PROS of Regular MD:

• Regular curriculum, including main lecture series.
• Spend all 4 years at main Miami campus, but still have option of doing regional campus or 'away' rotations.
  
• Med school is literally surrounded by 5 hospitals within walking distance, all affiliated with the school. Students at interview day said that it is extremely easy to shadow if and when you want to, that faculty are very receptive to allowing med students to shadow them.
• Maintain same social group for 4 years, build better relationships.
• Opportunity for non-public health research.
• Can still do global health rotations, trips, etc.
• Gym on campus!

CONS of Regular MD:

• Cost of living in Miami = crazy. Literally. Living in a cheaper area further from the school would need a car.
• No guaranteed $1000 scholarship for overseas global health field experience.
• M1 Anatomy Lab is done in 1 semester vs. the 1 year in the other program, so less time to learn the material. I'm not the best at memorization (it takes me time).

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Does anyone have advice? Or additional info that I'm overlooking?

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[piii]

From the research I've done talking to a SOM public health dean: if you are absolutely serious about public health, getting your MPH during or after residency is far more preferable. When you are in medical school, your MPH degree is second fiddle to the MD, and you can only touch the surface of public health. During residency and beyond, you know what speciality you will focus on. You can tailor your MPH to working directly in a field you'll spend the rest of your life working in, and as a physician, your responsibilities in your public health research will be much greater and more involved.

Also, what is losing a $1000 scholarship when you're spending $300,000 over 4 years?

 

[TBV]

No one wants to do a full year of anatomy lab that sounds like a f*cking nightmare. I'd say U know what to do. (see what I did there?)

 

[strictlyanon]

What about the class size?
MD/MPH: Smaller class size, potentially closer group of friends, but limited opportunities to find people you connect well with
MD: larger class size, more opportunities for socialization

From interview day it seemed like the two groups were pretty isolated except for partying after the MD exams

 

[Chasing Never Land]

No one wants to do a full year of anatomy lab that sounds like a f*cking nightmare. I'd say U know what to do. (see what I did there?)

TBV, the MPH group has less hours of anatomy lab per week tho. Would that affect your advice about it?

 

[RunninonMD]

its MD/MPH going to be 5 yrs, not 4 ??

 

[strictlyanon]

its MD/MPH going to be 5 yrs, not 4 ??

Miami's MD MPH program is 4 years.

 

[Chasing Never Land]

its MD/MPH going to be 5 yrs, not 4 ??

Miami is one of a handful nation wide that is accredited to do it in 4

 

[Spector1]

mph is really a signalling thing to get into med school. I dont think you really need it if you have a md

 

[123456123456]

I would not want the extra work of the MPH program unless the MPH was vital for what I wanted to do with my degree. However, I would calculate the cost difference and see if that would make the extra work worth it (since the living expenses vary). However, it sounds like you would need a car if you did the MPH/MD program which would negate the money you would save in living expenses unless you bought a super cheap car

 

[takeurmeds02]

Honestly, I feel like if you're still having this issue, you should go for the MD only because you know you can get the MPH later and even possibly have it expensed. You're primary goal is to be an MD and what you don't want to do is be stuck with having to complete a secondary degree and, Lord forbid, jeopardize your MD education. Looking at your pros and cons, the only true negative you gave for staying at the main campus was cost which honestly, isn't going to kill you.

 

[strictlyanon]

Honestly, I feel like if you're still having this issue, you should go for the MD only because you know you can get the MPH later and even possibly have it expensed. You're primary goal is to be an MD and what you don't want to do is be stuck with having to complete a secondary degree and, Lord forbid, jeopardize your MD education. Looking at your pros and cons, the only true negative you gave for staying at the main campus was cost which honestly, isn't going to kill you.

2 degrees for the price (and time) of 1 though..

 

[TBV]

TBV, the MPH group has less hours of anatomy lab per week tho. Would that affect your advice about it?

TBH no but I'm only doing my MD and feel with research and volunteering and all the other BS they make me do I would really regret taking on more especially if I decided it before I even knew what I was getting into. I would take teeayejay's advice and start with MD and pick up the MPH if you want to along the way. At my school they offered it to us at no extra charge.

 

[lucin]

md

 

[takeurmeds02]

2 degrees for the price (and time) of 1 though..

Well no, because tuition is more for the combined degree; granted not the price of doing the two separately but there is an increase. It's also been mentioned that there's the future possibility to get it for free post-MS. As far as time, like I said, you're still taking time away from your MD education to fulfill the obligations of the MPH. You well know this, but at the end of the day, I'm not sure what else can be said; you have the data, you've spoken to admin and students. You just have to decide for yourself.

 

[takeurmeds02]

Might be worth a try to see if you can't email one of the students from interview day and pick their brains a bit more.

 

[Chasing Never Land]

Might be worth a try to see if you can't email one of the students from interview day and pick their brains a bit more.

Thank you - I found your advice super helpful! I think I'll email a few students, but I'm starting to lean towards MD only.

Also, for those who were wondering, the dual degree tuition is $1000 more per year than the MD only.

 

[Chasing Never Land]

From the research I've done talking to a SOM public health dean: if you are absolutely serious about public health, getting your MPH during or after residency is far more preferable. When you are in medical school, your MPH degree is second fiddle to the MD, and you can only touch the surface of public health. During residency and beyond, you know what speciality you will focus on. You can tailor your MPH to working directly in a field you'll spend the rest of your life working in, and as a physician, your responsibilities in your public health research will be much greater and more involved.

Also, what is losing a $1000 scholarship when you're spending $300,000 over 4 years?

Wow that's definitely new to me!!! It makes sense that you could focus on your area of interest if you did it separately......

Do you know if this deans views are the norm? Have you talked to anyone else who also thinks this? Also (and I 100% understand if you don't want to answer bc of anonymity) can you say what SOM that dean was from?

 

[takeurmeds02]

Thank you - I found your advice super helpful! I think I'll email a few students, but I'm starting to lean towards MD only.

Also, for those who were wondering, the dual degree tuition is $1000 more per year than the MD only.

Oh that's it? I thought it was more lol

 

[strictlyanon]

Not sure exactly how true this is but on interview day all the students I've talked to seemed to say that everyone who got into both programs ended up choosing MD MPH and everyone in the MD class didn't apply to MD MPH

 

[Chasing Never Land]

Not sure exactly how true this is but on interview day all the students I've talked to seemed to say that everyone who got into both programs ended up choosing MD MPH and everyone in the MD class didn't apply to MD MPH

Did they say why they all chose MD/MPH?

 

[takeurmeds02]

Not sure exactly how true this is but on interview day all the students I've talked to seemed to say that everyone who got into both programs ended up choosing MD MPH and everyone in the MD class didn't apply to MD MPH

Yea, that seems like it makes since. I feel like most people wouldn't bother to apply to md/mph unless they really wanted it. That's what I was trying to get OP see in the first place. I feel like, if you're waiving on which to choose, then you didn't really want the mph that bad to begin with (at least not at this time) and it would become a chore.

 

[235009]

Also, for those who were wondering, the dual degree tuition is $1000 more per year than the MD only.

So much for your $1,000 scholarship then. You're essentially paying for it yourself. Not to mention $1,000 doesn't go very far when it comes to international travel to some of these undeserved countries. That amount may not even cover your round trip ticket.

Also the separate campus for clinicals should be a deal breaker. You want to be at the University Hospital to get the best experience, exposure, letters, etc. This seems like an attempt to lock a group of people into a less desirable clinical rotation site. Don't be filled by the "hand in experience" line...it's meaningless.

As someone who has a (real) MPH (from a top program before need school) I would recommend you forego the rushed mph if you're actually interested in a public health career. You can pick it up later in your career while getting more meaningful experience.

 

[Chasing Never Land]

I do know that I want an MPH at some point, but the option of MD only opening up to me (which I didn't expect) got me thinking about doing it now vs. later.....

But I'm 100% certain about the MPH. The thing is, if what @piii says is true, then perhaps getting it later would be best? I also want to double check about it possibly compromising my MD education, which I only started thinking about after family brought it up a month or so ago.... I hadn't thought of it at the time of application

 

[piii]

Wow that's definitely new to me!!! It makes sense that you could focus on your area of interest if you did it separately......

Do you know if this deans views are the norm? Have you talked to anyone else who also thinks this? Also (and I 100% understand if you don't want to answer bc of anonymity) can you say what SOM that dean was from?

The dean is at a pretty reputable school. She was an advisor and had no reason to sell me on an MPH. I can't say whether it is a normal view or not, but she is a physician and has been involved public health for like 20 years. I would honestly just get in contact with a few other MPH/MD people and ask them about this specific question (looks like @MeatTornado has a similar view). I have heard it from another faculty source too.

Also, if you go the just MD route through school, I'm am sure you can get your hands on public health/global health research and traveling no matter what, to satisfy those desires despite getting the MPH degree earlier.

 

[summergirl]

Hi Everyone,

I'm also scared sh*tless, though, that I'll make the wrong decision and spend the next 4 yrs or more regretting it. Plus, once I choose my seat for the other program will open up for students on the alternate list, so I don't want to hold that up. Miami is very strict in allowing no switching between the two programs.

I don't know anything about these two programs but I just want to say how much I appreciate this. Heck I didn't even apply to UMiami but I'm sure it means a lot to those who are on the UMiami waitlist.

 

[Chasing Never Land]

Update: so under urging of my friend I double checked tuition difference. MD/MPH is actually more expensive than MD by 4-6k per year. That's def. more significant than I previously thought.

Also thanks @summergirl! I've been in the wait list spot before for college apps, so I know how it feels :/

 

[wholeheartedly]

Part of the value and skills you build during the MPH come from stuff you do from outside of class. A rushed program might not give you those opportunities.

I agree there is some value doing it later during training when you have a better idea how you plan to incorporate it into your career.

 

[wholeheartedly]

mph is really a signalling thing to get into med school. I dont think you really need it if you have a md

No it's not. It is very different training and a different skill-set.

 

[ChillDawg]

Do some research on the Miami MD/MPH program on SDN...
Several M/MPH students voiced some serious concerns about the program, it was quite the turn off.

 

[piii]

mph is really a signalling thing to get into med school. I dont think you really need it if you have a md

Farthest from the truth as possible.

 

[Chasing Never Land]

Hey guys, just want to let you all know:

1) THANK YOU for taking time out of your days and giving me advice! It really helped and was (is) truly appreciated!
2) it IS just $1000 diff in tuition per year for me, be I'd be OOS
3) I ended up deciding on MD only. My reasons were:
- I wanted to stay in one place
- could still do a global health track
- will 100% do an MPH, but later once I know what I want to specialize in
- I've always been a huge "whole rounded generalist", and for med school, I want to concentrate on medicine only (hope this is a smart idea and doesn't come back to bite me haha)

So big thanks to everyone, including some very famous SDNers who took the time to PM a confused new student like myself!