Help. Do I have chance at med school with this academic dishonesty(IA)?

[phospholipid11]

Edited

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[cal2012]

LizzyM has made some great posts about this topic, and the adcoms you called basically answered your question: you have a chance, but you need to accept responsibility for it and demonstrate that it was simply a dumb mistake and doesn't necessarily represent your true character. There are plenty of opportunities in the application for you to explain what happened, and I'd recommend spending a lot of time on this explanation (no excuses).

For more, search anything like "cheating" or "dishonesty" or "plagiarism" on SDN and you'll find A LOT of people who've been in a similar situation. Usually we don't know what actually happened to them, but you'll find advice there.

 

[TheMightySmiter]

I attend an average 4 year college institution. I have a 3.83. My MCAT score is 36. I volunteered at clinics, habitat for humanity, and helped out my professors setting up materials. I have also volunteered at American red cross and helped out at a hospital(refilling beakers for patients, restocking, and helping them get out of bed). etc. I am now a senior and ready to graduate with BS in biology. I've haven't applied to med schools because of an IA I received during Fall sophomore year. I stole a Chemistry II exam from my chem professor and then I gave it to my friends to study and also for me to study. After the exam, the professor caught me, and they were all suspended for a month, but I was suspended for 2 months. It was a stupid thing to do. We all failed it and I have an academic dishonesty mark on my transcript, but they don't. I'm hoping to get it removed from the transcript so it shows only F. I have already retaken it and gotten an A. I have great recommendations from my professors, also. I've been so busy because I was taking 18 credits a semester and I was volunteering at the time. I have learned from my lesson, and I am angry and dissapointed at myself for doing it since chem II was stupidly easy compared to the other pre-requisites I've kept a clean record with no cheating.. etc. I know people on SD will be mad at me, but becoming a doctor is something I've dreamed of. It wasn't a mistake, but it was a bad decision. Unfortunately, I'm still scared to apply to med school because of what happened during sophomore year. I've called up some ad-coms and they told me: (as long as you've shown that you've learned from your lesson, your chances are not bad. just explain how you've learned from it and what you've demonstrated.....).I trust them, but I'm not sure.

I'm not going to lie, this is going to be a tough situation to overcome. You really do need to bust your butt to show that you learned your lesson--it's not enough just to say that you have. Can you get a letter from your dean verifying that you've been a stellar student since your IA? You could also consider joining the honor council at your school to show that you are taking this seriously. Even with these steps, the IA happened fewer than two years ago...it might not be enough time to show that you won't do it again.

 

[Floyd G]

i would weigh what the adcoms told you directly much more heavily than responses you get on SDN.

 

[phospholipid11]

Yeah, but most of the adcoms are just saying that. I can't guarantee anything. I'm doing the best I can, now. It was stupid thing to do and showed a lack of ethics. Stealing a test and cheating. It looks worse than cheating during the exam because I had the actual exam. It hit me really hard. I'm not sure what to do. The professor was really angry at me at the time, and then he reported me to the Dean. Also, I checked on SD, and LizzyM says if you cheated you have no chance. I stole and cheated. I have great recommendations from other teachers.

 

[drdan83]

The price of stealing that test is probably going to be getting into medical school in this country. Nobody wants a cheater to be their doctor. Academic dishonesty is much more severe than something like academic probation. You can learn from academic probation by getting good grades again. How do you learn from academic dishonesty?

There's always St. James School of Medicine.

 

[kpcrew]

man what's with all these cheaters lately

 

[GoSpursGo]

Moving to What are my Chances.

 

[phospholipid11]

The price of stealing that test is probably going to be getting into medical school in this country. Nobody wants a cheater to be their doctor. Academic dishonesty is much more severe than something like academic probation. You can learn from academic probation by getting good grades again. How do you learn from academic dishonesty?

There's always St. James School of Medicine.

Ofcourse you can learn from academic dishonesty. I learned from it. Getting caught is how you learn from it. That's like saying a person who got in trouble for fighting on campus or drinking alcohol can't learn from his mistake. The punishment is how I learned from the mistake.

 

[Silverfalcon]

The problem here is not just on the fact that OP cheated (and got caught), but also that OP was directly involved in obtaining the exam in the first place. This makes it really difficult to convince adcoms that it really was a "mistake," or was it intentionally planned (which it probably was at the time) malicious decision? It's one thing to look wrong way and copy the answers, but another thing to actually steal the exam.

 

[phospholipid11]

The problem here is not just on the fact that OP cheated (and got caught), but also that OP was directly involved in obtaining the exam in the first place. This makes it really difficult to convince adcoms that it really was a "mistake," or was it intentionally planned (which it probably was at the time) malicious decision? It's one thing to look wrong way and copy the answers, but another thing to actually steal the exam.

Well. this is what happened. I stole the exam. made copies of it for my friend. worked on it then collaborated. Then one of the friends got caught, and he told on us. I confessed. The thing is. What do you mean intentionally planned? any type of cheating is intentionally planned right except for plagiarism. I know it wasn't a mistake, but it was bad choice and i've learned from it. But damn, I wish I could go back and repeat that day. It's quite embarrassing.

 

[drdan83]

Of course you can learn from academic dishonesty. I learned from it. Getting caught is how you learn from it. That's like saying a person who got in trouble for fighting on campus or drinking alcohol can't learn from his mistake. The punishment is how I learned from the mistake.

Whatever you say man.

Look at it this way. If a med school takes a chance on you, what happens if you defraud insurance companies when you're in practice? What if you perform abortions in your basement after hours?

Ethics are a big part of medicine. Cheating is not ethical.

Sounds dramatic but you've dug yourself a pretty deep hole.

 

[flodhi1]

Whatever you say man.

Look at it this way. If a med school takes a chance on you, what happens if you defraud insurance companies when you're in practice? What if you perform abortions in your basement after hours?

Ethics are a big part of medicine. Cheating is not ethical.

Sounds dramatic but you've dug yourself a pretty deep hole.

+1

 

[Silverfalcon]

Well. this is what happened. I stole the exam. made copies of it for my friend. worked on it then collaborated. Then one of the friends got caught, and he told on us. I confessed. The thing is. What do you mean intentionally planned? any type of cheating is intentionally planned right except for plagiarism. I know it wasn't a mistake, but it was bad choice and i've learned from it. But damn, I wish I could go back and repeat that day. It's quite embarrassing.

So, you weren't the one who initially get caught? Then the question that adcoms can ask you is, what if your friend didn't mention your name and decided to take the fall? Would you have come out and confessed still? Why or why not?

Yes, any form of cheating is intentionally planned, but looking sideway to copy someone's answer may be just momentary thing. Planning to take an exam isn't really a short-term; you had to have contemplated over it and planned things out (unless your teacher just happens to leave the exam out in the open for anyone to take..). And as a side note, plagiarism can be intentional as well.

 

[phospholipid11]

Yes, you are right. I'm not denying that. ethics is a critical part of medicine. I understand that. I have no intentions of doing any of that(defrauding, abortion). I just don't know how to prove it to them. No point retaking MCAT, and i'm doing the best i can in undergrad. I just don't know how to explain the incident, as seems like a deal breaker. I want to them that I was really sorry for what I did. I don't know any other alternative careers I can pursue with a biology degree. I think I'm ready for med school, but I'm not sure how to convince the ad coms of that.

 

[V5RED]

In your shoes, I would apply and hope for the best.

Here is where you sit. You know that a bunch of pre med students say you have no shot, and on the other hand a bunch of members of admissions committees you called say you do have a shot.

You got a degree that is essentially just a generic bachelors as far as the job market goes, and you already did everything you should have to apply to medical school (volunteering, MCAT, high GPA).

Aside from application fees, what do you really have to lose by applying? Do you want to be 80 wondering what if?

 

[phospholipid11]

So, you weren't the one who initially get caught? Then the question that adcoms can ask you is, what if your friend didn't mention your name and decided to take the fall? Would you have come out and confessed still? Why or why not?

Yes, any form of cheating is intentionally planned, but looking sideway to copy someone's answer may be just momentary thing. Planning to take an exam isn't really a short-term; you had to have contemplated over it and planned things out (unless your teacher just happens to leave the exam out in the open for anyone to take..). And as a side note, plagiarism can be intentional as well.

Well he saw that I had an original copy on my folder during the exam. I stole the exam when he was away from his desk. It happened the day before the exam, but he caught us during the exam. I couldn't lie about it.

 

[thelullaby99]

Well he saw that I had an original copy on my folder during the exam. I stole the exam when he was away from his desk. It happened the day before the exam, but he caught us during the exam. I couldn't lie about it.

That's a situation no one should put themselves in. Just a Q, if you weren't caught, will you confess? Or let it go like nothing happened?

 

[V5RED]

Well he saw that I had an original copy on my folder during the exam. I stole the exam when he was away from his desk. It happened the day before the exam, but he caught us during the exam. I couldn't lie about it.

How did you know there would be copies of the exam in his office to steal?
Did you sneak into his office while he was taking a crap to steal the exam?
How did the professor not notice that the exam was stolen(I assume you had to rifle through his stuff to even find them)?
Why would you literally bring the stolen exam with you when you took the exam?

I stand by my advice to take a shot, but this is not just cheating. This is burglary and you were lucky to not be arrested.

 

[LizzyM]

Of course, you can't be sure... no one can be sure. But you've got to apply in order to get admitted. Sure, you might not get any nibbles but maybe someone will see some possibility of redemption. A school that might not have had a chance to land someone with your stats under ordinary circumstances might take you to raise their gpa/MCAT average.

 

[Morsetlis]

I attend an average 4 year college institution. I have a 3.83. My MCAT score is 36. I volunteered at clinics, habitat for humanity, and helped out my professors setting up materials. I have also volunteered at American red cross and helped out at a hospital(refilling beakers for patients, restocking, and helping them get out of bed). etc. I am now a senior and ready to graduate with BS in biology. I've haven't applied to med schools because of an IA I received during Fall sophomore year. I stole a Chemistry II exam from my chem professor and then I gave it to my friends to study and also for me to study. After the exam, the professor caught me, and they were all suspended for a month, but I was suspended for 2 months. It was a stupid thing to do. We all failed it and I have an academic dishonesty mark on my transcript, but they don't. I'm hoping to get it removed from the transcript so it shows only F. I have already retaken it and gotten an A. I have great recommendations from my professors, also. I've been so busy because I was taking 18 credits a semester and I was volunteering at the time. I have learned from my lesson, and I am pissed at myself for doing it since chem II was stupidly easy compared to the other pre-requisites I've kept a clean record with no cheating.. etc. I know people on SD will be mad at me, but becoming a doctor is something I've dreamed of. It wasn't a mistake, but it was a bad decision. Unfortunately, I'm still scared to apply to med school because of what happened during sophomore year. I've called up some ad-coms and they told me: (as long as you've shown that you've learned from your lesson, your chances are not bad. just explain how you've learned from it and what you've demonstrated.....).I trust them, but I'm not sure.

Balls.

 

[Morsetlis]

The price of stealing that test is probably going to be getting into medical school in this country. Nobody wants a cheater to be their doctor. Academic dishonesty is much more severe than something like academic probation. You can learn from academic probation by getting good grades again. How do you learn from academic dishonesty?

There's always St. James School of Medicine.

I would NOT recommend going Caribbean before you exhaust the US MD/DO route.

 

[moreno212]

wow. this sucks. OP let me know if you get in. I too have an honor code violation.
is OP a repeat violator of cheating was this just one incident?

 

[leaveit2rani]

Just curious, how did you get caught?

I did something very similar to this back in 11th grade in High School. Me and my friends stole an analytical chem final exam but got caught with the answers while taking it. This really hurt me back when I was applying to undergrad. I got rejected at my first choice school even though my GPA and ACT score were better than the school's average. I ended up going to a state school on a full ride though. I also applied to a school's Early Admission Health program. My stats were much, much better than most of the people who got accepted to the program. I assumed the Academic Dishonesty was what got me rejected. So, yeah it is really serious. And seriously, ADCOMs will say anything, they have to speak on technicalities. But when everyone reviews this, they will take it into high consideration when comparing you to other applicants.

It is a dumb mistake, believe me. That's how most of them think though: Once a cheater, always a cheater. And honestly, no one on SDN should be bashing on you for cheating. Everyone here has cheated at some point in their life, it's just that not everyone gets caught. I agree the system is messed up and it is hard to say if you will get accepted.

 

[pancakesyrup]

Cheaters have no business becoming a doctor.

 

[SeminoleVesicle]

Cheaters have no business becoming a doctor.

I agree with this. The unfortunate thing is, based on OP's stats he is more than qualified to handle the rigors of medical schools.

I think it's a little crazy to assume that this person would cheat insurance companies. In the moment, this felt like the right thing for OP to do. Even if OP made a C in the class, he still would have been above a 3.7. Too bad :/.

 

[phospholipid11]

Yes, I and other friends were caught using it during the exam. they had their own copies. I know I shouldn't have stole it or used it. If they still think i'm a cheater with a high MCAT and gpa, then I'll just be content that I've done well during college. I didn't know one bad decision could ruin everything and we all learn from the decisions we make. Anyway, I probably don't stand a chance because i'm at a state university anyway.

 

[WakeUpHappy]

I think it depends on the individuals looking at your application. I believe in second chances for people that want them, and I doubt I'm unique in that opinion.

The admission team has doctors on it, and if they're all being selected for their empathy and compassion, hopeful someone will give you a second chance. If its not too late, asking a faculty member to include a comment about your mistake / good academic standing afterwards, I don't think medical schools would completely shut you out.

What did your sanctions consist of? Your conduct office / honor council should have a way to positively deal with this. Also, maybe look up what specifically your conduct record has written down for you (it might sound less criminal than what actually happened).

Another idea is apply for a Master's program in Ethics (only semi-joking)

 

[TriagePreMed]

Cheaters have no business becoming a doctor.

Also people that don't believe in redemption have no business becoming a doctor.

I know a lot of people here say "listen to the ADCOM," but the truth is that they will only give politically correct answers. However, if you don't apply, you can never find out for sure.

If you've truly grown from this experience and regret making the mistake, I wish you good luck, OP.

 

[MedAdComMD]

Out of my whole career, I have only met one person who was admitted for academic dishonesty violations - and it took her 6 cycles to get in (although I can't verify whether its true or not).

 

[Stumpyman]

Does academic dishonesty show up on your transcript or in your records?

 

[purplelightning]

Cheaters have no business becoming a doctor.

I agree with this. Sure people can change. But why not take the applicants who don't have academic dishonesty violations? There are plenty of premeds to choose from.

 

[Morsetlis]

I agree with this. Sure people can change. But why not take the applicants who don't have academic dishonesty violations? There are plenty of premeds to choose from.

I'm sure most adcoms agree with you, but not all.

 

[12345Lily]

@Phospholipid did you have an update

 

[candbgirl]

Yo do realize this thread is 4+ years old and OP hasn't posted since 8/11?