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Hello everyone,
I hope this is the right place to put this. I was wondering if there is anyone out there who is currently in a psychology PhD program (more specifically a clinical program) who could tell me what being in the program is like. What are the challenges? How much time do you dedicate to studying each day? What would you say the hardest classes are? What advice do you give to someone who's considering entering that type of program? Any advice is welcome!
Thank you!

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What are the ABA programs out there? Specific aba phd programs? How do you decide which is the best? I've heard of Caldwell University, UMBC and CUNY but those are all I've seen. Anyone know?
 
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I already posted in the WAMC section, but I also had a pertinent "Help me decide" question. I'm currently enrolled in a master's program for counseling psychology, and just completed my first year. Originally I was intending to complete my master's in addition to the extended program that would allow me to work towards my LCPC with the required coursework. The extra coursework would require an additional year's worth of classes to go from a 48 master's program to a 60 credit program that would allow me to take the licensing exam after required hours were met.

However after some consideration I am currently intending to apply to psy d programs instead. My overall long term goal is to eventually open up my own private practice for therapy. However I know this is not an easily obtainable goal and would like other career options/flexibility down the road. Finances and time play an important factor in my decision. I'm currently 28 and will be 29 when I complete the master's program at 48 credits, so I won't actually complete my psy d. until my mid 30's. In terms of finances, psy d. programs will create a substantial amount of debt compared to the completion of the master's program. My current employer pays for 10k a year for tuition but it comes with an agreement to work the following fiscal year. Therefore if I begin a psy d. program next fall, I will have to pay back the 10k I would borrow for this second year of my master's program. However the alternative is I essentially waste a year working there gathering no relevant experience within the field, and I would not begin my psy d program until Fall 2016 at 30.

Given my goals and interests are largely therapy based, is it a waste of time/money applying to psy d. programs? I was considering a third option as well which would be to complete the 60 credits for licensing and then apply for psy d programs after. This would be a "fail safe" sort of plan where I would be able to work towards an LCPC if I failed to get into any psy d. programs. However I'm sure if I did this there will be an overlap in coursework and some of the courses I will take will not be accepted in psy d. programs. I'm concerned that my ambition is getting the best of me and obtaining a psy d. is not the financial/career best decision I can be making given my options. Thank you in advance for any advice or input you guys will have.

Why don't you want to open a practice with an LCPC? And have you considered more practice oriented counseling psych phd programs? It would be cheaper and you'd probably get more credit for your masters coursework.
 
Dear Help Me Decide Thread:

I’m 50 years old and have been working my adult life as a designer and Creative Director. But I have always wanted to be involved in research. I am fascinated by the work of Christof Koch and Daniel C. Dennett and anything involving consciousness, both in the biological and philosophical sense ( I realize that mentioning this is opening up a separate can of worms, but let's say I have broad interests in the field).

And though I’m confident of my abilities and determination, it seems unlikely that even if I were to obtain a Masters in Psychology from a reputable place like Pepperdine, that a fully funded PhD program would then sign up a 53+ year old, given the competition from younger folks with decades more productivity in them.

Correct me if I’m wrong about about the above, but my question is: As psychologists, do you know of an educational path that might allow me to parlay my existing experience (data visualization, marketing, running a department) into a position working alongside researchers as a colleague (and not just some graphics flunky)?

I do have professional experience with user testing and psychological assessment (for the purposes of selling crap to naive individuals).

Thanks in advance,
 
If you want to research in psychology, then why not look at research focused MS programs. The Pepperdine MA is for people wanting to pursue a clinical career so that would not make much sense.
 
I couldn't find a better thread to post this in...

I would like hear your opinions on applying to both a Masters and PhD program, during the same year. I guess the logical thing to do would be to wait for an admission decision, then apply to the Masters program, if things don't work out. However, I'm still curious as to how this may appear to an admissions committee. That is, if the two programs are connected, some programs that I'm familiar with aren't.

Thanks,

Burge
 
This is my first post here; I'm hoping this is the appropriate thread to post to...
My question is, should I drop out of my PsyD program?

Reasons I want to drop out:
-Cost (no scholarships or funding aside from loans through my school, cost is roughly $1,200 a credit, 4 years to graduate, was able to transfer 12 credits in from MA clinical psych program)
-I already have over $115,000 in loans, and just finished my first semester of my psyD program
-Afraid of my salary after graduating not making up for the loans, having to constantly struggle, and basically ending up a basket case from all the stress and struggle and not even being able to enjoy working because I'm drowning in debt and end up more depressed and anxious than the clients I am working with
-No time to do anything between homework, work, school, and practicum
-sick of working for free (I realize it's the nature of training and practicum unfortunately)
-Also, I did apply to a few scholarships outside of my school, but due to having class, practicum, and work every day of the week and tons of homework I have no time to fit in writing more scholarship essays right now.

Reasons I want to stay:
+I have great teachers, supervisors, supports, and classes
+I am very interested in/love learning about and doing testing (otherwise I wouldn't have bothered doing a psyD)
+I don't like to give up on things once I've started. I knew the costs before I started but after learning more and more and reading posts on this website I'm starting to become so anxious about life after school due to finances that I am having a hard time even enjoying school anymore.
+My masters program was not a 60 credit licensure program, so I would still need to do 2 years of part time school and have an internship with supervision hours before I can go for a licensure exam anyway
+Not completely sure what type of setting I want to work in yet, so the program gives me experience working in a variety of settings

Background information:
I got my BA in psychology in 2012. I immediately went into a masters program because all of my professors said you can't get into a PsyD or PhD program without a masters, so I figured may as well and see exactly what I want to do.
Graduated in 2014 with my MA in clinical psychology from a program that was not a 60 credit licensure program (took maybe 54 or 55 credits). I didn't know anything about licensure or licensure eligible programs until my second year when our teacher had a former graduate from the school come in and tell us we have to do 2 more years of schooling after we left and then become eligible to take the licensure exam.
I figured, I'll have to do 2 more years of school anyway, and am interested in doing assessments and don't mind learning more about and doing more research (although I don't think I'd want to actively do research as a career), so I went to a psyd program.

Not until last week when on this site had I even heard of a fully funded program and I wish I was in one! I am doing really well in school (I think I have all A's), am gaining more experience in different settings (did a practicum in community mental health in my masters program, doing a residential school setting practicum for my 1st year psyd). I love working with clients, and don't know specifically yet what type of setting I want to work in.

Anyway, I have gotten to the point where I am so terrified of having $250,000-300,000 in debt when I graduate and not being able to pay it back. My plan is to get a job in the public service loan forgiveness program, but I feel like everyone must apply to those and there are limited number of sites so I can't necessarily rely on that. Should I have just stuck it out and done 2 years of schooling to get my licensure for my masters like the rest of my classmates did? Switching to a funded program seems very unlikely as I'm sure there are much more qualified candidates than myself and I cannot relocate too far. I hope I am not screwing myself over by being in this psyD program, but I don't want to drop out and realize I should have stayed in either. What are your opinions based on your own experience with schooling and being in the field?
 
This is my first post here; I'm hoping this is the appropriate thread to post to...
My question is, should I drop out of my PsyD program?

Reasons I want to drop out:
-Cost (no scholarships or funding aside from loans through my school, cost is roughly $1,200 a credit, 4 years to graduate, was able to transfer 12 credits in from MA clinical psych program)
-I already have over $115,000 in loans, and just finished my first semester of my psyD program
-Afraid of my salary after graduating not making up for the loans, having to constantly struggle, and basically ending up a basket case from all the stress and struggle and not even being able to enjoy working because I'm drowning in debt and end up more depressed and anxious than the clients I am working with
-No time to do anything between homework, work, school, and practicum
-sick of working for free (I realize it's the nature of training and practicum unfortunately)
-Also, I did apply to a few scholarships outside of my school, but due to having class, practicum, and work every day of the week and tons of homework I have no time to fit in writing more scholarship essays right now.

Reasons I want to stay:
+I have great teachers, supervisors, supports, and classes
+I am very interested in/love learning about and doing testing (otherwise I wouldn't have bothered doing a psyD)
+I don't like to give up on things once I've started. I knew the costs before I started but after learning more and more and reading posts on this website I'm starting to become so anxious about life after school due to finances that I am having a hard time even enjoying school anymore.
+My masters program was not a 60 credit licensure program, so I would still need to do 2 years of part time school and have an internship with supervision hours before I can go for a licensure exam anyway
+Not completely sure what type of setting I want to work in yet, so the program gives me experience working in a variety of settings

Background information:
I got my BA in psychology in 2012. I immediately went into a masters program because all of my professors said you can't get into a PsyD or PhD program without a masters, so I figured may as well and see exactly what I want to do.
Graduated in 2014 with my MA in clinical psychology from a program that was not a 60 credit licensure program (took maybe 54 or 55 credits). I didn't know anything about licensure or licensure eligible programs until my second year when our teacher had a former graduate from the school come in and tell us we have to do 2 more years of schooling after we left and then become eligible to take the licensure exam.
I figured, I'll have to do 2 more years of school anyway, and am interested in doing assessments and don't mind learning more about and doing more research (although I don't think I'd want to actively do research as a career), so I went to a psyd program.

Not until last week when on this site had I even heard of a fully funded program and I wish I was in one! I am doing really well in school (I think I have all A's), am gaining more experience in different settings (did a practicum in community mental health in my masters program, doing a residential school setting practicum for my 1st year psyd). I love working with clients, and don't know specifically yet what type of setting I want to work in.

Anyway, I have gotten to the point where I am so terrified of having $250,000-300,000 in debt when I graduate and not being able to pay it back. My plan is to get a job in the public service loan forgiveness program, but I feel like everyone must apply to those and there are limited number of sites so I can't necessarily rely on that. Should I have just stuck it out and done 2 years of schooling to get my licensure for my masters like the rest of my classmates did? Switching to a funded program seems very unlikely as I'm sure there are much more qualified candidates than myself and I cannot relocate too far. I hope I am not screwing myself over by being in this psyD program, but I don't want to drop out and realize I should have stayed in either. What are your opinions based on your own experience with schooling and being in the field?

From a pure rationalist perspective, 250k in loans to make 6o-80k is irrational.
 
From a pure rationalist perspective, 250k in loans to make 6o-80k is irrational.
That's what I'm realizing more and more. I really want to do assessments in addition to working with clients, and get more research experience, but for that kind of pricetag and the more I read about how much money I'm probably not going to make, I feel like I'm going to create such a sinkhole of debt for myself that it will be impossible to crawl out of. I'll end up like one of the homeless families I work with except with more debt :(
I am not one to quit things, but I don't know what else to do except plow through 3.5 more years and then see if I did or did not make a mistake.

Any other ideas/advice/suggestions/sharing of own experiences?
 
Difficult situation and one that I am all too familiar with. I stuck it out and am glad I did. I didn't know how to pursue this path either. i am paying down the debt and my career is going well. Another factor to look at is your schools match rate and chances of obtaining an APA internship. I piled up a lot of debt but most of it is very low interest so not as burdensome as some of my wife's credit card debt. You should also do some of the math to compare median incomes over the course of ten years or so to MA vs PsyD. Also, if you are willing to move for your career, then that will help.
 
Difficult situation and one that I am all too familiar with. I stuck it out and am glad I did. I didn't know how to pursue this path either. i am paying down the debt and my career is going well. Another factor to look at is your schools match rate and chances of obtaining an APA internship. I piled up a lot of debt but most of it is very low interest so not as burdensome as some of my wife's credit card debt. You should also do some of the math to compare median incomes over the course of ten years or so to MA vs PsyD. Also, if you are willing to move for your career, then that will help.
Thank you for your response. Did you also pursue your PsyD at an unfunded program? I keep reading things about how Masters level clinicians and psychiatrists are going to "sandwich out" the psychologists in the middle. I'm afraid for the future of psychology, and that the amount of jobs and the amount the jobs pay will be low or that of Master's level clinicians, making it near impossible to pay off the substantial amount of loans. It's hard to know what decision to make when the future of psychologists seems so uncertain :(
I am still so on the fence between obtaining my licensure for my masters (which will take 2 years because of practicum and internship requirements) or just going through with the PsyD anyway. At least with the masters, if I got a full time job I could work full time and have that count for practicum and internship, but then I wouldn't be able to do more with assessments and research (way more concerned about the assessments part).
Does anyone also have any idea about assessment jobs and how much those pay on the side of seeing clients?
 
Thank you for your response. Did you also pursue your PsyD at an unfunded program? I keep reading things about how Masters level clinicians and psychiatrists are going to "sandwich out" the psychologists in the middle. I'm afraid for the future of psychology, and that the amount of jobs and the amount the jobs pay will be low or that of Master's level clinicians, making it near impossible to pay off the substantial amount of loans. It's hard to know what decision to make when the future of psychologists seems so uncertain :(
I am still so on the fence between obtaining my licensure for my masters (which will take 2 years because of practicum and internship requirements) or just going through with the PsyD anyway. At least with the masters, if I got a full time job I could work full time and have that count for practicum and internship, but then I wouldn't be able to do more with assessments and research (way more concerned about the assessments part).
Does anyone also have any idea about assessment jobs and how much those pay on the side of seeing clients?

If you are in this much debt, i would assume much of your cohort is as well. What's their perspective?

Regarding jobs, your program should be preparing you to be a psychologist who does psychologist things. Direct clinical service to patients is only one of about half a dozen things a psychologist should be competent in doing. If you feel that "testing" is really the only thing that differentiates you from masters-level therapy provider, then I cant blame corporate and hospital HR departments for preferring the cheaper masters level labor.

And, "assessment" is a broad term. Assessment of what and for what purpose?
 
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If you are in this much debt, i would assume much of your cohort is as well. What's their perspective?

Regarding jobs, your program should be preparing you to be a psychologist who does psychologist things. Direct clinical service to patients is only one of about half a dozen things a psychologist should be competent in doing. If you feel that "testing" is really the only thing that differentiates you from masters-level therapy provider, then I cant blame corporate and hospital HR departments for preferring the cheaper masters level labor.

And, "assessment" is a broad term. Assessment of what and for what purpose?
I am still learning about the different forms and purposes for assessment, so it is hard to say specifically what I want to do regarding it. I currently know how to do only a few standard assessments (WISC, WAIS, MMPI-2), but I am interested in learning how to do projective testing like the Rorschach, screening tools, etc.. I am not interested in teaching really, but I am interested in research (not to the point where I can it being the main focus of my career though). What are some others things that those with PsyDs should be trained and well-versed in to be more marketable and make the most out of the degree?

As for my cohort regarding debt, it seems as though many of them have help from their parents or other family members, or are taking the "head down, get through school, and hope it works itself out" approach. Some of them are from masters programs like myself, and some came right from undergrad so they don't have as many loans (or any if their parents paid for their schooling). I am the only one who is paying for my loans, and out of any of them, I seem to be the most worried and money conscious about the amount of loans I am taking out. Some of them don't even know what they owe and just avoid looking at their debt all together.
 
I am still learning about the different forms and purposes for assessment, so it is hard to say specifically what I want to do regarding it. I currently know how to do only a few standard assessments (WISC, WAIS, MMPI-2), but I am interested in learning how to do projective testing like the Rorschach, screening tools, etc.. I am not interested in teaching really, but I am interested in research (not to the point where I can it being the main focus of my career though). What are some others things that those with PsyDs should be trained and well-versed in to be more marketable and make the most out of the degree?

As for my cohort regarding debt, it seems as though many of them have help from their parents or other family members, or are taking the "head down, get through school, and hope it works itself out" approach. Some of them are from masters programs like myself, and some came right from undergrad so they don't have as many loans (or any if their parents paid for their schooling). I am the only one who is paying for my loans, and out of any of them, I seem to be the most worried and money conscious about the amount of loans I am taking out. Some of them don't even know what they owe and just avoid looking at their debt all together.

Psychologists should be able to do, consult, educate, collaborate, disseminate, advocate, manage, and research matters of clinical psychological science and mental health. Your graduate school experiences (lab research, classes, practica, informal mentorship) should ideally be touching upon all of these to a certain degree.

Assessment is a broad area, as I said before, and it will be valued in some settings and situations and not at all in others. In some settings/situations it will pay well, in others it will not. It all depends one what you are doing, who you are working for, and how you are working and billing (1099 contracter, employee, solo practice vs group practice, etc). And, ideally, you should be interested in learning about the validity, reliability, and clinical utility (ie., incremental validity) of certain methods/instruments for assessing psychological or behavioral constructs, as opposed simply learning "how to do them." Learn psychology first. Then learn the clinical application of it.

Unless you have a huge entrepreneurial spirit and potential, you are probably going to make less than 100k unless you are in California or other high COL areas...in which case the pay bump is negated by overpriced real estate. My salary is about 88 right now (and will get up to 110k in the next 10 years) and my side work brings in about 20k a year. So, I do better than many. I could make more, but that would take time away from my wife and children. Financial advisors generally advise against taking out more loans than ones (realistic) yearly salary. I'm guessing your cohorts well heeled families have not consulted them to a finacial advisor before jumping into their 200k investment? Seems like poor planning. You are doing wise to think ahead.
 
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I am still learning about the different forms and purposes for assessment, so it is hard to say specifically what I want to do regarding it. I currently know how to do only a few standard assessments (WISC, WAIS, MMPI-2), but I am interested in learning how to do projective testing like the Rorschach, screening tools, etc.. I am not interested in teaching really, but I am interested in research (not to the point where I can it being the main focus of my career though). What are some others things that those with PsyDs should be trained and well-versed in to be more marketable and make the most out of the degree?

As for my cohort regarding debt, it seems as though many of them have help from their parents or other family members, or are taking the "head down, get through school, and hope it works itself out" approach. Some of them are from masters programs like myself, and some came right from undergrad so they don't have as many loans (or any if their parents paid for their schooling). I am the only one who is paying for my loans, and out of any of them, I seem to be the most worried and money conscious about the amount of loans I am taking out. Some of them don't even know what they owe and just avoid looking at their debt all together.

I feel for you, I really do. Because who wants to give up on their dreams, right? If finances are the MAIN reason, I would say, don't quit (sorry erg). If there is a will, there is a way. Meaning, it can be done, depending on how bad you want it and if you are willing to work hard and maybe take some unfortunate risks (moving to low-demand, less-competitive places, working in low-income areas that do loan forgiveness, working in forensics or the government, becoming a medical psychologist and working your butt off with lots of hours). If all these sound doable to you, than again, go for it.

Now based on your track history, does this sound like you? Do you work hard and get excellent grades? Are you a go-getter who seeks out better opportunities, would argue for a raise/promotion/post-doc/additional training? What is the alternative? For some, working with a masters degree and alot of debt is even more pitiful and depressing than piling on more debt and having a good income to pay the minimal payments each month. With 100k and no income, I've endlessly researched loan forgiveness programs and options to get out of the hole. Although I'm finishing my degree, not just starting it. So I would say, think rationally and realistically. There ARE psychologists who make a decent pay, but do you think that could be you? And if not, what else can be done instead since your debt will still remain? These are just my two cents and opinion. Debt sucks. But so does unemployment.
 
I feel for you, I really do. Because who wants to give up on their dreams, right? If finances are the MAIN reason, I would say, don't quit (sorry erg). If there is a will, there is a way. Meaning, it can be done, depending on how bad you want it and if you are willing to work hard and maybe take some unfortunate risks (moving to low-demand, less-competitive places, working in low-income areas that do loan forgiveness, working in forensics or the government, becoming a medical psychologist and working your butt off with lots of hours). If all these sound doable to you, than again, go for it.

Now based on your track history, does this sound like you? Do you work hard and get excellent grades? Are you a go-getter who seeks out better opportunities, would argue for a raise/promotion/post-doc/additional training? What is the alternative? For some, working with a masters degree and alot of debt is even more pitiful and depressing than piling on more debt and having a good income to pay the minimal payments each month. With 100k and no income, I've endlessly researched loan forgiveness programs and options to get out of the hole. Although I'm finishing my degree, not just starting it. So I would say, think rationally and realistically. There ARE psychologists who make a decent pay, but do you think that could be you? And if not, what else can be done instead since your debt will still remain? These are just my two cents and opinion. Debt sucks. But so does unemployment.
Hi erg923 and starsinnight. Thank you both for your replies. I have been doing a lot of research, talking with supervisors, financial aid department, and met with one of my professors today to discuss my thoughts on dropping out and getting my LMHC versus staying in the PsyD program. Although I could possibly find a way to pay off $250,000-$300,000 (like you said starsinnight, where there is a will, there is a way, and I guess I am considered a go-getting), this is money I could be saving, putting toward my retirement fund, putting toward a house, etc. and it's more years I am not really making much of an income. I accepted a job offer the other day as a fee for service clinician for $31 a service/hour, and am looking into a C.G.S. program to finish up the requirements I need in order to be eligible for LMHC licensure. I feel I will be much happier with less stress and making money, something that was causing me to worry and stress to the point where I couldn't even really enjoy my program anymore.
Although I did work my butt off and get good grades (pretty sure I got all A's), really like my school I go to, the faculty, the other students, etc., I think I need to leave. Perhaps one day if I feel it would be beneficial, I can go back, although I think it will be hard to just drop everything (a full time job, children if I have any at the time, and anything else I have going on) to go back to school full time. I hope leaving the PsyD program is not something I will regret, but I feel like I can get my life started now rather than waiting until I'm 30 and finally done with school.
This all being said, I first would like to say thank you to those who replied and offered their opinions and advice. In addition, if you have any other advice, options, etc., keep them coming or you can start a conversation with me too if that is easier and to keep this thread more on the "help me decide" topic. Now i have to figure out the whole C.G.S./C.A.G.S. program thing (can't figure out the difference between them, something to do with education?), especially since I live in Massachusetts/close to Rhode Island border, so Rhode Island College is the closest one, but I don't plan to live in Rhode Island. The Massachusetts programs are all far away, such as in Boston. Ultimately, I want to live in New Hampshire, but I just got a job in Massachusetts and don't have the money to move right now which complicates things. Anyway! Any ideas/things to keep in mind/advice/opinions/etc. message me or reply. Thank you everyone!
 
I have applied to the two above schools to the two respective programs:
ROOSEVELT MA Clinical Psych Counseling Practice
DEPAUL MS General Psych

I have a two part question.
One,
Considering I am new to the area (receiving my BA in another state), graduated with a 3.72 GPA, modest laboratory experience contributing in 3 major studies, and worked in special education (LOR included), do I have a good chance of getting into either program?

Two,
If and when that happens...
I was hoping to reach either current graduate students or alumni. Is there any sort of (negative) reputation surrounding either school, or program? My eventual goal is to reapply for the doctoral clinical psychology program at either school. As far as cost goes, it appears Roosevelt is decidedly more expensive (est. $49,000) than DePaul ($33,000), but Roosevelt does offer completion of the degree at a campus closer to where I live, about an hour outside of Chicago. Both programs would be strong precursors to the eventual doctoral degree, but is there any other heavy factor to consider?

Also, slightly unrelated, but what if I were to enter a doctoral degree and decided halfway through that it wasn't for me? I have seen users write about transferring out of a program, but could they leave with a MA if it was en route to the doctoral degree but not terminal? Do any of the credits transfer? This would be a last solution, but it would be nice to know just in case.
 
1. I think your numbers are a no brainer for acceptance into MA program. Choose the program that provides the most research opportunity.

2. I thought DePaul was funded.

Once you have the MA you can leave with that in hand.
 
Thanks for your reply. I found those statistics on the tuition section of their sites; I called to confirm DePaul's this morning. I was somewhat surprised the cost was lower than Roosevelt. Scholarships and different options for funding will also play a factor in the final decision.
 
Hello Everyone!

This is my first post here, so please excuse me if I am not submitting to the proper thread.

I have read many discussions on here regarding PsyD and PhD programs and they do not provide much useful advice. I'm hoping that I receive some feedback that is appropriate and helpful.

I am just finishing my undergraduate degree with a major in healthcare administration. I enjoy healthcare administration, yet I am not passionate about it. I am truly passionate about clinical psychology, more specifically I have an interest in neuropsychology. I have been considering what option would be best for me in respect to doctoral programs (PsyD/PhD). With a lack of a psychology major and having only completed the pre-requisite psychology courses, I am very intimidated by the prospect of applying to clinical psychology programs. I have no research experience and the only practical experience I have is from my volunteer work as a crisis counselor for a crisis line.

I cannot find any opportunities for gaining research experience in my area, so that option is out. I have been thinking that I may possibly need to apply to a masters program first, but I'm not sure. I've read many articles, forums, etc. that have provided me with conflicting advice regarding the benefit of earning a masters before applying to a PsyD or PhD program. My question is, do you think it is logical to assume that I will not gain acceptance into a PhD program? If I get into a PsyD program are they still as disrespected by the professionals of the field as they were in the discussions I read from 2006, have things changed since then? I am very confused about what to do. If I earn a PsyD how hard will it be for me to get into a post-doc fellowship in neuropsychology?
 
Neuropsychology especially values a research background. You need to understand the research and psychometrics behind your assessment tools to adequately choose them for populations and referral questions. So, while you don't necessarily need to go to a "neuropsych track" program, you do need to go somewhere they have clinical opportunities in grad school, while at the same time giving you a solid research background in the neuro research and application of research.
 
You will not get into a reputable doctoral program (either Ph.D. or Psy.D.) without research experience. That is an integral part of doctoral training. Your options are to do a research-oriented Master's or to take time off after college to work full-time as a Research Assistant.

This is spot on.

Neuropsychology especially values a research background. You need to understand the research and psychometrics behind your assessment tools to adequately choose them for populations and referral questions. So, while you don't necessarily need to go to a "neuropsych track" program, you do need to go somewhere they have clinical opportunities in grad school, while at the same time giving you a solid research background in the neuro research and application of research.

Also in 100% agreement. Of all clinical specialities, I believe neuro is the one who is going to most expect a strong understanding of research, methods, etc. Having a strong grasp on psychometrics (this is more at the doctoral level) is also very important, as it directly impacts test selection, interpretation, report writing, etc.

As for the "neuro track" stuff…most of the time that is a marketing angle. If you can identify a good mentor, have access to some classes (e.g. neuroanatomy), and complete a practica that is neuro focused…that is perfectly acceptable prior to internship.
 
am currently a junior at university, and I am planning on going into Clinical Child Psychology. I have a major in Psych and a minor in Health Systems Management, which is hospital management and was planning on working in a hospital either during or before graduate school. I will be applying to MHA, PSY.D/PH.D or MA in Counseling programs.

I want to just gauge my options here because I know for a fact that my GPA isn't the strongest. I'd just like feedback on if I should focus on working out of college and then applying to clinical programs after? Personal problems freshman year and then I was Pre-med before doing my Psych major which didn't help my GPA at all. Lots of C-'s, C's, and B's, until Chem destroyed my sophomore year GPA. Switched to Psych and HSM and I've been on an upward trend since, but it's not a competitive GPA.

2.6 cum and 2.97 psych gpa. This fall semester should raise both to 2.9 cum and 3.0 major.

I have two years of research experience where I have worked in the same lab in visual cognition with an amazing professor who would be willing to write a letter of rec. I have also worked at numerous child care jobs, along with shadowing social workers at an alternative school.

I am good at speaking and such, and know I have to do well on the GRE. I worked in a school and did a job at a summer camp for hands-on child experience. I was wondering what I should start looking into to strengthen my application as I would really like to practice hands-on clinical psychology, like seeing patients and such. I'd also like to know if it would just be better for me to apply to MA counseling programs. What are the limitations with an MA?

In my future, I want to be working hands on, clinical type stuff. I enjoy working with kids in and out of the school setting. I also want to be making a solid salary - nothing crazy, but more than 50k or 60k starting. What would be the best option for me?
 
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I'm super new and just made the decision to go back for a Doctorate (PsyD). I have a bachelors in science but in a completely unrelated field (even though my end goal will put them together...another story). I've applied to Walden University's online program for my M.S. in Psychology, the reason for this decision was to help cut down on some costs and continue working, plus I'm hopeful it will help give me a small boost in either chance of getting into an APA accredited PsyD program or some classes might transfer for additional credit.

My main topics of interest are Clinical and Forensic Psychology, not interested in counselling or licensure at the Masters level. I'm looking at Widener University (#1 choice) due to it's close proximity and I'd like to commute, for doctorate. Also looking at Loyola University Maryland, Rutgers University and Indiana University of Pennsylvania. I figure when I'm done school my debt will be around 125-160k, that includes the 47k I have now(I reduced it down from 68k with 4 years off to work).

Questions:
#1. Do you think going for the online masters, is it a positive decision?
#2. What are your thoughts on the Walden University online program?
#3. Any feedback on Widener, Loyola, Rutgers, Indiana U?
#4. Any chances of financial assistance from Widener or any others?
 
Hi everyone,

I know there have been similar threads about these two programs in the past, but I have not seen any recent discussions and was hoping to get some current information/guidance about the two programs.

To anyone who has knowledge about these two programs, which is the better choice? Which school will provide better education and training and better opportunities following graduation?

What I already know:
- U. of Hartford does not have an on-site clinic (though they are trying to start one)
- U. of Hart has a Child & Adolescent track
- U. of Hart does not provide any funding to its PsyD students
- Training starts in the first year at Pepperdine
- Living around Pepperdine is extremely expensive, on top of the extremely expensive tuition
- The internship match rate and EPPP pass rates for both schools are very similar.

Thank you!
 
Hi everyone,

I know there have been similar threads about these two programs in the past, but I have not seen any recent discussions and was hoping to get some current information/guidance about the two programs.

To anyone who has knowledge about these two programs, which is the better choice? Which school will provide better education and training and better opportunities following graduation?

What I already know:
- U. of Hartford does not have an on-site clinic (though they are trying to start one)
- U. of Hart has a Child & Adolescent track
- U. of Hart does not provide any funding to its PsyD students
- Training starts in the first year at Pepperdine
- Living around Pepperdine is extremely expensive, on top of the extremely expensive tuition
- The internship match rate and EPPP pass rates for both schools are very similar.

Thank you!

Mod Note: Moved to the "Help me decide" sticky.
 
I've been lurking here because I remember many moons ago when I was trying to make decisions about school. Reading some of the questions, fears and some of not very helpful responses made me think of the anxiety I felt then, what I know now and I thought I would chime in to offer some words of advice being that I am almost at the other side (waiting on internship results!!).

First, I've seen some questions regarding Alliant and Argosy. I got some experience on that area because those were my questions back in the day. I ended up going to Alliant for one semester for PsyD (despite all the warning of fellow student doctor peeps) and after a month I realized I made a mistake. From my experience the programs tend to be disorganized and "on your own" type of deal. However, I thought maybe it was just not my style. Luckily I was able to get out after one semester, gain more experience in treatment etc and apply to a much better school (where I am n0w).

Now that I went through internship applications, I have to share that a couple of places and program directors were concerned when they saw that I had one semester at Alliant. I explained that I didn't get a degree there, just went for one semester and decided it was not the type of education I needed. The program directors that questioned me were relieved to hear that I left and chose a better program, and one even hinted that they don't even look at applicants from that school. So, yes, they may be APA accredited, but no, they don't measure up to the rest of much better programs in the nation and the students are the ones that pay the price.

Now, second, I've also seen questions about finances. This is something that is very important because the reality is that not everyone is going to be able to go to fully funded programs. In that case, you MUST have plan A. B. C. and D. to pay off any loans you take. And this must be PRIOR to even considering applying to schools. However, if you do have a plan, even if you do take loans, you will be ok.
Although I went to a good school and good program, and was able to secure some scholarships it did not cover the whole thing. However, I planned several ways to pay for the rest and I must say that so far things are working out perfectly and I am very certain I will be able to have a good life, pay off my education and do what I love.

My point is, don't be discouraged by not being a millionaire, or getting fully funded. Be smart, choose a good school, and be proactive, seek out options, scholarships etc, and have an open mind about work that may help you pay off your debt.
 
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Thoughts on SUNY Binghamton versus University of Arizona clinical PhD programs? I'm hearing a pretty wide variety of opinions on how they compare as clinical science training.
 
Postdoc at Bedford MA or San Diego/UCSD? Both VAs, similar training programs. I'm so torn. Anybody have any experiences at either place that might help? (I haven't gotten an offer yet at either, but I need to have my ranks ready for UND tomorrow morning. Both have indicated I'm still in the running)
 
Either will be solid. UMass and Boston U are both solid affiliations and UCSD is one of the best affiliations for the VA in the county. I'd probably look at which offers the better access to research/opportunities on the academic side. Also, does one historically hire/consider post-docs to hire…if so…would you want to stay? Weather-wise..it isn't really a contest because some people really do love feet of snow for 3+ months of the year. :D
 
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With all due respect, I never heard of that media report. But I heard negative comments about Argosy in general (from multiple psychologists) for years prior to that, mostly concerned with the overall business model of the system, large class sizes, and low admission standards. I actually visited one of their campuses when I was researching schools and I was surpised that they were the only place not requiring me to take the GRE.
I'd like to chime in about another professional school that touts its own horn constantly, but it was, in my opinion, the biggest mistake of my career to have gone there: Palo Alto University. Too large a cohort each time of upwards of 90 students and counting each time; little time helping us get the credentials we needed to compete well on the national level for internships, a very adversarial administration, and even constant multiple choice quizzes as our principle way of measuring our performance (I suspect due to large cohort sizes). It came down to us competing against our own cohorts to get practica positions locally which are already in short supply in the Bay Area. If you need further info, please email me at [email protected] I have subsequently transferred out to a 2nd tier Ivy League school where the atmosphere is much better, support abounds, and there are lots of practica opportunities. This is one of the biggest decisions of our lives; don't compromise as I did! Palo Alto University's promos are far better than reality...
 
Hello everyone!

I was fortunate to receive offers from both the University of South Carolina's and Wayne State's clinical programs, but I'm having a really hard time choosing between them. They both have wonderful potential mentors and research opportunities, as well as similar funding situations, so I'm feeling torn. I'd really love it if anyone has any advice or opinions regarding both programs.

A little background about my experience and lifestyle:

I'd be going in with a Masters of Science in Psychology. My program is research intensive and I really enjoy research, but I am not 100% certain at this point whether I want to pursue a tenure-track position or engage with clinical research in another context. I do know that I like teaching. I'm single but I have a dog. My family is also from Detroit, which is a factor but won't have a major influence on my decision because I'm used to being away from them. I'm currently in Philadelphia and like being close to the activity of the city, but I also like being outdoors and having access to hiking trails.

Thanks in advance for any help or advice!
 
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What clinical/research focus do you have? That may help shape the advice.

Broadly, my interests are stress, trauma, and resilience/multi-systems protection in disadvantaged children and adolescents. I'm also very interested in applied work - intervention and treatment development/evaluation.
 
Any and all replies are appreciated!

I have a goal of getting a PhD in clinical. My undergrad GPA is less than stellar, and I believe I would benefit from more research experience (and perhaps the PhD programs that rejected me would agree). Thus, I'm looking at masters programs. My question is essentially- how much does the orientation/interests of one's masters program "pigeonhole" them into being considered for certain PhD programs?

One program to which I've applied calls itself a "master of arts in psychological research." It looks good because the mentor I'd be working with is energetic and eager to get his students to publish, and it does seem research-heavy overall. However, I'm noticing that all the research that happens in his lab would probably be categorized as social more than clinical.

Another program to which I've applied calls itself a "master of arts in behavioral psychology." It looks good because it's funded (!) and also research-heavy. However, it has a very specific orientation- behavior analysis. They state their program is good for getting students into doctoral programs in "behavior analysis or behavioral clinical/counseling psychology."

So, would a clinical PhD program consider an application from a person with a masters who has done mostly social-ish research (as long as they considered it quality research)?

Or, if I did the behavioral masters program, and decided I didn't want to seek out that orientation at a PhD program, would I still have some PhD programs interested in me?

Thanks!
 
Bumping for advice re: above post.

C'mon, internet. Influence my important life decision!
 
I would love some input from you guys about my choices. I am feeling overwhelmed by the choice of programs and they seem to have blurred together a bit for me.
I currently live in NYC but am ok with moving. Money, while important, is not going to be my deciding factor.
I am looking for a program that will help me get the best possible clinical training, an opportunity to explore different theories/modalities, expose me to clinical hours and assessment, and not break my back with research, though I do have an idea I might like to work on.

I currently have offers from City College Graduate Center, Adelphi, LIU Brooklyn, and Yeshiva (PsyD).
Also GW but I am most likely discarding that (purely analytic and on probation with APA)
I also have a great shot at Denver U (DU) and Wright Institute, both of which I really liked when I visited but am less familiar with as I am an east coaster.

If you have any input please let me know! Thanks in advance!!
 
Toss the Wright Institute…too expensive and not know for assessment work…also very psychodynamic. I'd then look at funding options, as you'll want to avoid as much debt as possible. All of the places you listed are high cost of living areas, so tuition + stipend dollars matter a great deal. Then I'd look at match rates. Lastly I'd go by reputation.
 
Any and all replies are appreciated!

I have a goal of getting a PhD in clinical. My undergrad GPA is less than stellar, and I believe I would benefit from more research experience (and perhaps the PhD programs that rejected me would agree). Thus, I'm looking at masters programs. My question is essentially- how much does the orientation/interests of one's masters program "pigeonhole" them into being considered for certain PhD programs?

One program to which I've applied calls itself a "master of arts in psychological research." It looks good because the mentor I'd be working with is energetic and eager to get his students to publish, and it does seem research-heavy overall. However, I'm noticing that all the research that happens in his lab would probably be categorized as social more than clinical.

Another program to which I've applied calls itself a "master of arts in behavioral psychology." It looks good because it's funded (!) and also research-heavy. However, it has a very specific orientation- behavior analysis. They state their program is good for getting students into doctoral programs in "behavior analysis or behavioral clinical/counseling psychology."

So, would a clinical PhD program consider an application from a person with a masters who has done mostly social-ish research (as long as they considered it quality research)?

Or, if I did the behavioral masters program, and decided I didn't want to seek out that orientation at a PhD program, would I still have some PhD programs interested in me?

Thanks!

My take is that any research experience is going to be better than no/limited research experience. However, once you get to the point of pursuing/obtaining a masters (rather than volunteering/working as an RA in a lab), programs may begin assuming that the work you've done there is aligned with the work you're wanting to do in your doctoral program. Thus, you'd really need to work on selling why/how your interests have changed, and/or how the work in your masters program is relevant to the work you'd like to focus on for your doctorate. Fair or not, by being in a masters program, doctoral programs are likely going to expect you to be able to more cogently and clearly describe and delineate your research and clinical interests.

So would pursuing either of those two masters programs get your application tossed, even if the research isn't at all related to the doctoral programs to which you apply? Probably not. But as I mentioned, it'll just be incumbent on you to tell them why you're a good fit despite the apparent research mis-match.
 
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I currently have offers from City College Graduate Center, Adelphi, LIU Brooklyn, and Yeshiva (PsyD).
Also GW but I am most likely discarding that (purely analytic and on probation with APA)
I also have a great shot at Denver U (DU) and Wright Institute, both of which I really liked when I visited but am less familiar with as I am an east coaster.

If you have any input please let me know! Thanks in advance!!

My input is that it is outstanding that you have so many choices...but if you are currently are holding 5 offers, you need to quickly determine which 3 you care least about and release them. You can only attend 1 program, so please give others a chance to come off of wait lists and feel your level of excitement.
 
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My take is that any research experience is going to be better than no/limited research experience. However, once you get to the point of pursuing/obtaining a masters (rather than volunteering/working as an RA in a lab), programs may begin assuming that the work you've done there is aligned with the work you're wanting to do in your doctoral program. Thus, you'd really need to work on selling why/how your interests have changed, and/or how the work in your masters program is relevant to the work you'd like to focus on for your doctorate. Fair or not, by being in a masters program, doctoral programs are likely going to expect you to be able to more cogently and clearly describe and delineate your research and clinical interests.

So would pursuing either of those two masters programs get your application tossed, even if the research isn't at all related to the doctoral programs to which you apply? Probably not. But as I mentioned, it'll just be incumbent on you to tell them why you're a good fit despite the apparent research mis-match.

Thanks for your reply! That helps.
 
Hello,
I was hoping for some help in deciding between the following 2 schools: Loma Linda University in California and Roosevelt University in Chicago. Clearly, Roosevelt University is the more well-known, better-ranked program with a higher APA internship rate (I was informed they had a 100% match this year). Also, RU's tuition is around 22K while LLU's is ~31K and I was offered a small scholarship from RU while LLU has minimal opportunities for assistantships and other financial aid. However, the reason I am even considering LLU despite these stats is for their well-known medical centers. My clinical interests lie in trauma and severe mental illness, and LLU offers many opportunities to gain experience in their large in-patient and VA units. Though I'm sure I'll be able to find these opportunities at RU as well. Another piece of info about me is that I have literally lived my whole life in Southern California, so moving to Chicago would be a dramatic change for me.
I guess what I'm asking is what factor should I prioritize when considering schools, whether it be location, price, program ranking, etc.
Also, if anyone has any additional info on Roosevelt, please add that too!
 
Hey everybody!
I have two offers at the moment and I am having a hard time deciding which would be the best place.
One is from U of Detroit - Mercy (PhD) and the other from Indiana University of Pennsylvania
(PsyD).
Both of the interviews were great, faculty and students were friendly, and both schools are clinically oriented and have similar APA match rates. IUP has a better licensure rate(98% vs 85%) but a worse attrition rate(10% vs 1%).

As for finances, UD-Mercy gives about $60,00 in tuition remission guaranteed. IUP does gives assistantships usually around $6000 a year plus half tuition remission but in the acceptance email the clinical director mentioned that this first year might be a little tight. Additionally, current students said its near impossible to gain residency.

Obviously, finances aren't everything but I feel uncomfortable not being able to even guess how in debt I might become with IUP :/

I feel like I would fit into both programs very well. They both of mentors that deal with trauma and veterans affairs. On a final note, I feel like UD-Mercy's reputation is great.... in Detroit. I worry that my ability to network and make career connections might be hampered?

Any and all feedback very appreciated!
Thanks!
 
Order of importance (at least to me knowing what I know now).

1. APA-acred (duh)
2. Minimize debt whenever possible. $0 would be great, but that is often not completely realistic unless you can get summers covered, save up for the internship process, etc. Educational debt is still debt, and the Gov't will ALWAYS get their cut, so no hope to discharge loans or whatever.
3. Program reputation and mentor reputation. These go hand in hand, though a lesser known program w. a rising star mentor can often provide a better training experience than a big name program w. a mediocre faculty member or someone who has one foot out the door. Make sure to talk w. students about the kinds of opportunities they get w. their mentor, the mentor's style of supervision, work / life balance, etc.
4. History matters…at least recent history. Match rates are important, though also check where student go AFTER internship. What kind of post-docs / fellowships do they secure? What areas of practice do they do? Are these answers in line w. what you envision for yourself?
5. Town / City match. I'd probably put this farther down if I think harder, as you will be very busy for the next 4-6 yrs. It matters, but not as much as most applicants think.

FWIW…Detroit isn't the prettiest place, but there are some pockets of vitality and opportunity. Henry Ford Hospital, Wayne State & their hospitals, etc. Also, there are some neighborhoods that can be fun. There are some nice suburbs around Detroit (they look like most any other suburb..if that's your thing). Living in the city is much cheaper than most cities, but obviously ask around.

I don't know much about IUP, the area around it, etc….though they have a good reputation and I think produce quality clinicians.
 
Hey everybody!
I have two offers at the moment and I am having a hard time deciding which would be the best place.
One is from U of Detroit - Mercy (PhD) and the other from Indiana University of Pennsylvania
(PsyD).
Both of the interviews were great, faculty and students were friendly, and both schools are clinically oriented and have similar APA match rates. IUP has a better licensure rate(98% vs 85%) but a worse attrition rate(10% vs 1%).

As for finances, UD-Mercy gives about $60,00 in tuition remission guaranteed. IUP does gives assistantships usually around $6000 a year plus half tuition remission but in the acceptance email the clinical director mentioned that this first year might be a little tight. Additionally, current students said its near impossible to gain residency.

Obviously, finances aren't everything but I feel uncomfortable not being able to even guess how in debt I might become with IUP :/

I feel like I would fit into both programs very well. They both of mentors that deal with trauma and veterans affairs. On a final note, I feel like UD-Mercy's reputation is great.... in Detroit. I worry that my ability to network and make career connections might be hampered?

Any and all feedback very appreciated!
Thanks!

What would be your estimated debt load from each program?
 
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