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I am new to this forum and was hoping to get some responses and opinions regarding the PsyD programs at both Pacific University in Hillsboro, Oregon and Nova Southeastern University in Fort Lauderdale-Davie, Florida. I was recently accepted to both programs, and I find both to be great fits for what I am looking for in a clinical psychology program. Both have great clinical practicum opportunities as well as areas for research; which is refreshing for a PsyD program. Any information and opinions are greatly welcomed and appreciated. Thank you!

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I am new to this forum and was hoping to get some responses and opinions regarding the PsyD programs at both Pacific University in Hillsboro, Oregon and Nova Southeastern University in Fort Lauderdale-Davie, Florida. I was recently accepted to both programs, and I find both to be great fits for what I am looking for in a clinical psychology program. Both have great clinical practicum opportunities as well as areas for research; which is refreshing for a PsyD program. Any information and opinions are greatly welcomed and appreciated. Thank you!

Hi there:

Both are incredibly expensive (150K in tuition), have poor outcomes and low APA internship rates (this is the gold standard for internships; other internships will limit your employment options). Do a search on this forum on the importance of attending an APA internship. Attrition is also very high (over 20% at Pacific). Any good program will have less than 5% attrition typically. Sorry to burst your bubble!

Did you know about these numbers when you interviewed or applied? What are you plans for being able to pay 30K just in tuition for at least 4 years? I don't believe any of these programs have any funding or at least any decent funding.
 
I don't know anything about Nova Southeastern, but might be able to provide some insight about Pacific since I've talking to a lot of people about it.

I've heard that because the cohorts are so big, you really have to go in knowing what you want and fight for a sort of mentorship relationship with faculty, but the faculty are willing to help you out. You just have to make the first move.

Again, because of the cohort size, you need to be flexible. First year courses all have two sections which ideally would make your schedule look like all time slot A or B but you could have a pretty mixed schedule. That could get sticky if you plan on trying to work.

Their match rates are low, again, because cohorts are so large. But I was told that tracking will help a lot for the match process, though matching in itself is pretty competitive. I have heard that they will be trying to accommodate more students to track in hopes of raising match rates.

I spoke with someone that went to Pacific a while ago and when asked if he would do it again, he said he would. He said he got what he wanted out of the program (though did speak to the large business learning curve that comes with private practice).

I've been trying to decide between an MSW program and Pacific's PsyD and can say that after speaking with a few PsyD's practicing in my area, I will be submitting my Pacific deposit in the next week or two.
 
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I've been trying to decide between an MSW program and Pacific's PsyD and can say that after speaking with a few PsyD's practicing in my area, I will be submitting my Pacific deposit in the next week or two.

What factors went into this decision?

Average debt level for an MSW degree is only approximately 26K, for a PsyD it is over 120K. That's 5 times the level of debt. Starting salaries for PsyD's are also pretty low. You are also looking at 3-4 more years of school and taking more of a gamble given the really low APA internship rates at Pacific. 40-50% of students complete APA internships (APA not APPIC is most important to look at for jobs and post-docs). What a bad deal for such a high cost and length of training.
 
Hi @graduatingsoon,

Thank you for your response! My GRE scores were average when I applied, and I am overall a horrible standardized test taker so I pretty much ruled out the huge university-based PsyD programs like Rutgers and Baylor. I know the importance of APA match rate but I didn't only want to focus on this fact. Licensure percentage for both programs are in the 80s and 90s and the attrition rates that I can remember were no less than 15% (I think the 20% you spoke of was from 2006 and 2007).

As far as funding, I definitely have done my research on cost but I see this as a complete investment in my future career and professional goals. I also plan to do some type of loan reimbursement program upon graduation. I realize a PhD program gives more opportunity for tuition reimbursement and funding opportunities but I do not want to be in academia nor do I want the bulk of my career to emphasize research. I again also felt like my GRE scores would not make me as competitive of an applicant for PhD programs.

Am I off on my rationalization? Do you have any thoughts on the clinical training offered at either program? Thanks again for your feedback.
 
Hi RubySoho,

Thank you for the insight on Pacific's program, I actually have heard very similar things but I am very willing and determined to begin the program knowing what I want from it! From what I know, Nova offers similar tracking options as Pacific and a little bigger of a cohort size which makes the decision difficult. I'm glad to hear the student you spoke to said they would make the same decision again! It sounds like the clinical training received was beyond satisfactory, which is a huge consideration for me.
 
Hi @graduatingsoon,

Thank you for your response! My GRE scores were average when I applied, and I am overall a horrible standardized test taker so I pretty much ruled out the huge university-based PsyD programs like Rutgers and Baylor. I know the importance of APA match rate but I didn't only want to focus on this fact. Licensure percentage for both programs are in the 80s and 90s and the attrition rates that I can remember were no less than 15% (I think the 20% you spoke of was from 2006 and 2007).

As far as funding, I definitely have done my research on cost but I see this as a complete investment in my future career and professional goals. I also plan to do some type of loan reimbursement program upon graduation. I realize a PhD program gives more opportunity for tuition reimbursement and funding opportunities but I do not want to be in academia nor do I want the bulk of my career to emphasize research. I again also felt like my GRE scores would not make me as competitive of an applicant for PhD programs.

Am I off on my rationalization? Do you have any thoughts on the clinical training offered at either program? Thanks again for your feedback.

First of all, I would consider the attrition rate from people who entered in 2006-2007 as opposed to 2009-2010 since the latter are still early in the program. Many people get "weeded out" only at the end of training 4th-5th year unfortunately, and the website has not been recently updated. 23% is pretty high given the cost of the program. You may end up with all that debt without the degree. It's definitely a red flag. Rutgers and Baylor I believe have less than 5% attrition.

I think the low APA internship rate DOES reflect on the clinical training. If the program had excellent clinical training, more students would end up with APA spots like at Baylor where nearly 100% get those spots. With a large class size, it may be really tough to land decent clinical placements since the students are all competing with each other for a few spots and with other programs in the area.

What reimbursement programs are you referring to? Many of these programs are also only relevant for people who completed APA internships (VA spots, military etc).

The licensure rates are decent overall. However, being licensed does not mean that one is employed or has a liveable income. Given that most people from these programs do not complete APA internships, many will not be competitive and will be restricted from the highest paying clinical jobs (VA, medical schools).

I'm sorry to hear that your scores are not competitive enough for funded or reputable PhD or PsyD programs. However, this doesn't mean that you SHOULD attend an expensive, lower tier school. This rationale doesn't make sense. This field is competitive from start to finish so if you don't make it into a good program, you will face an uphill battle but with a 200K weight on your shoulder.

All the PsyD & PhD graduates that I know who took out more than 100K in loans would never do it again. This is purely anecdotal, but I haven't met anyone with over 100K in loans who would do it again in this field. Starting salaries are about 50K in this field after licensure (similar to the average for a BA degree). Rule of thumb is that debt should not exceed your expected first year income.
 
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Oh and I know an early career licensed psychologist who took out 160K in loans. Her monthly payment right now is $1700 per month. After rent, she is living paycheck to paycheck and is also doing PT private practice for additional income. Most are federal loans and a small percentage are in private loans.

This person even landed an APA internshhip and went to a reputable program with partial funding so she was able to land one of those higher paying jobs. Even under the best of circumstances, she is struggling due to loans and will not be able to save for retirement.
 
What factors went into this decision?

Average debt level for an MSW degree is only approximately 26K, for a PsyD it is over 120K. That's 5 times the level of debt. Starting salaries for PsyD's are also pretty low. You are also looking at 3-4 more years of school and taking more of a gamble given the really low APA internship rates at Pacific. 40-50% of students complete APA internships (APA not APPIC is most important to look at for jobs and post-docs). What a bad deal for such a high cost and length of training.


There was a lot at play-
For one, I will not be taking any student loans, so cost wasn't a huge factor for me. Second, my top choice MSW program was across the country and moving isn't a super smart idea for me and my husband right now. Also, I have advanced standing which means only a year of instruction and I don't feel like I'd get what I need out of a program in a year.

I've hear that MSW and PsyD starting salaries are about the same, but the PsyD offers much more upward mobility. Some people I've spoken with essentially said that the master's level is more "symptom management" instead of facilitating real change. I really just want to be the best clinician I can be, so I feel like more education makes the most sense.
 
Oh and I know an early career licensed psychologist who took out 160K in loans. Her monthly payment right now is $1700 per month. After rent, she is living paycheck to paycheck and is also doing PT private practice for additional income. Most are federal loans and a small percentage are in private loans.

This person even landed an APA internshhip and went to a reputable program with partial funding so she was able to land one of those higher paying jobs. Even under the best of circumstances, she is struggling due to loans and will not be able to save for retirement.

One thing I will say to this is there are new programs such as income based repayment (no more than 10% of a person's income) and the 10yr loan forgiveness for working at a nonprofit that people taking out loans now will have access to.
 
There was a lot at play-
For one, I will not be taking any student loans, so cost wasn't a huge factor for me. Second, my top choice MSW program was across the country and moving isn't a super smart idea for me and my husband right now. Also, I have advanced standing which means only a year of instruction and I don't feel like I'd get what I need out of a program in a year.

I've hear that MSW and PsyD starting salaries are about the same, but the PsyD offers much more upward mobility. Some people I've spoken with essentially said that the master's level is more "symptom management" instead of facilitating real change. I really just want to be the best clinician I can be, so I feel like more education makes the most sense.

Your particular case is unique. Vast majority cannot finance without loans so I understand your decision. Forgot to mention that you will be able to do assessment with the PsyD degree as an advantage over the MSW.
 
One thing I will say to this is there are new programs such as income based repayment (no more than 10% of a person's income) and the 10yr loan forgiveness for working at a nonprofit that people taking out loans now will have access to.

That is a large assumption that the same program will exist 5-6+ years from now. That should not be Plan A, B, or C.
 
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First off, what is tracking?

Second off, I wish that applicants would consider internship placement more strongly than many seem to on this forum. I am applying for internship next year. I am absolutely terrified, and my program had a 100% APA match rate this year, with around an 80% match rate the past few years. I can only think of how scared I would feel if my program had a poor match rate. Remember that you cannot graduate without completing an internship. Also remember that non-APA internships have consequences, like having trouble finding a post-doc (see that one "CAPIC" thread for proof of this). You do not want to be four or five years in and face this roadblock.
 
I haven't done much posting on this forum, but I wanted to first tell everyone how valuable their advice and input has been during this process.

Here is my dilemma. I have an offer (with funding) from a school that I would be happy to attend and am waiting to hear back from my top choice. Their interview was well over a month ago and I have heard there are some funding issues that are holding up the process.

My POI at the school where I have an offer is very excited for me to attend the program and has been extremely helpful and communicative, whereas (despite soft deadlines for offers) communication from my top choice has been virtually non-existent.

So, I have 3 questions. 1) Is still trying to figure out funding at this stage of the process a bad sign for future years? 2) Should I take these difficulties/lack of communication as an indication of how the program is run or what I can expect my experience to be like? and 3) Am I risking alienating my potential POI where I have the offer by waiting to see what the other program may offer? :scared:

I would be grateful for any input. Thanks!
 
Oh and I know an early career licensed psychologist who took out 160K in loans. Her monthly payment right now is $1700 per month. After rent, she is living paycheck to paycheck and is also doing PT private practice for additional income. Most are federal loans and a small percentage are in private loans.

This person even landed an APA internshhip and went to a reputable program with partial funding so she was able to land one of those higher paying jobs. Even under the best of circumstances, she is struggling due to loans and will not be able to save for retirement.

Um, has she not heard of IBR or ICR?
 
I haven't done much posting on this forum, but I wanted to first tell everyone how valuable their advice and input has been during this process.

Here is my dilemma. I have an offer (with funding) from a school that I would be happy to attend and am waiting to hear back from my top choice. Their interview was well over a month ago and I have heard there are some funding issues that are holding up the process.

My POI at the school where I have an offer is very excited for me to attend the program and has been extremely helpful and communicative, whereas (despite soft deadlines for offers) communication from my top choice has been virtually non-existent.

So, I have 3 questions. 1) Is still trying to figure out funding at this stage of the process a bad sign for future years? 2) Should I take these difficulties/lack of communication as an indication of how the program is run or what I can expect my experience to be like? and 3) Am I risking alienating my potential POI where I have the offer by waiting to see what the other program may offer? :scared:

I would be grateful for any input. Thanks!

If it's been a month since the interview and you haven't heard about your status yet (not even waitlist?), then I would assume that an offer is unlikely. However, if it would make you feel more at ease, you might benefit from e-mailing the POI at your first choice to inquire about your status / the funding situation.

I'm not sure how to answer your first two questions, since there are several explanations for the lack of communication and there's no way to know what's going on short of asking the POI. I don't think you're risking "alienating" your potential POI by waiting (the school can't rescind your offer just because you took a long time to accept it), but it does send the message that you are holding out for a different school, since most interviews are done by now. Personally, if you would be happy attending this program and you don't hear anything from the POI at your top choice within a week, I would just accept the offer at the other school. As you have seen with the current offer you're holding, a POI who is very interested in having you is more than willing to communicate with you and answer questions. Although I said that I cannot predict what is causing the silence on part of the POI at your top choice, the silence would be a bit concerning to me.
 
I haven't done much posting on this forum, but I wanted to first tell everyone how valuable their advice and input has been during this process.

Here is my dilemma. I have an offer (with funding) from a school that I would be happy to attend and am waiting to hear back from my top choice. Their interview was well over a month ago and I have heard there are some funding issues that are holding up the process.

My POI at the school where I have an offer is very excited for me to attend the program and has been extremely helpful and communicative, whereas (despite soft deadlines for offers) communication from my top choice has been virtually non-existent.

So, I have 3 questions. 1) Is still trying to figure out funding at this stage of the process a bad sign for future years? 2) Should I take these difficulties/lack of communication as an indication of how the program is run or what I can expect my experience to be like? and 3) Am I risking alienating my potential POI where I have the offer by waiting to see what the other program may offer? :scared:

I would be grateful for any input. Thanks!

I would email the POI at your top choice to inquire about your status before making a decision. And, just explain the situation-that you have an offer, but that you are most interested in attending that POI's program instead so you are holding out on accepting the offer.

If it is your top choice, I'd find out the story first b/c it's only a few more weeks left...why not wait and see! (Since it is a decision that could affect your career, find out the scoop first!) :)
 
PS: I would also add that applicants from BOTH Argosy and the Wright Institute were automatically tossed by my internship program during the match cycle this year (if you are unaware of the match debacle or how your programs perform in this process every year, YOU NEED TO DO THIS). This had to do with a multitude of factors such as lack of rigor in the curriculum, high acceptance rates, and large cohorts, lots of practica at private practices (red flag), and a general lack of scholarly productivity among both faculty and students alike. I am not at a particularly prestigious hospital either, to say the least. So make of that what you will...

Soooo -- how many PsyD students' applications wound up in your circular file, in total? How many PsyD students do you actually offer a position to?
 
Personally, if you would be happy attending this program and you don't hear anything from the POI at your top choice within a week, I would just accept the offer at the other school. As you have seen with the current offer you're holding, a POI who is very interested in having you is more than willing to communicate with you and answer questions. Although I said that I cannot predict what is causing the silence on part of the POI at your top choice, the silence would be a bit concerning to me.

If it is your top choice, I'd find out the story first b/c it's only a few more weeks left...why not wait and see! (Since it is a decision that could affect your career, find out the scoop first!) :)

Thanks to both of you for your input.

My POI told me about the funding issues and gave me a soft deadline for when they thought things would be figured out and offers made, and that the POI would keep me updated. That date has come and gone and I still haven't heard anything (and from what I can tell, no one has posted acceptances or rejections from that school).

I'm sure the department has little control over the bureaucratic funding process, and I KNOW I'm getting a little neurotic about it all, but it's nice to know that my two opposing thought processes are shared by others :)
 
Please help me decide. I am literally torn between both of these programs. I have been offered admission into both programs so now I just need to choose.

IUP: great interview, really connected with the professors, awesome on-campus clinic, many forensic interests/opportunities, don't like the area and first year students won't be given funding but will in subsequent years, at the interview I was very impressed with the program, research interests overlap, IUP overall is a better program

UHart: good interview, the faculty seemed really nice and had a cute rapport with one another, really connected with the professor I interviewed with, great environment, funding opportunities are available, tuition overall is about $5000 less than IUP, on the topic of diversity the professor told me that the program talks the talk but needs to work on walking the walk, (their website is very outdated so some things done in the past are no longer being done, such as a Diversity Conference), research interests overlap, love the area, it is still a solid program.

What are yall's thoughts?!

As of now I am leaning toward UHart but I am all ears!
 
Please help me decide. I am literally torn between both of these programs. I have been offered admission into both programs so now I just need to choose.

IUP: great interview, really connected with the professors, awesome on-campus clinic, many forensic interests/opportunities, don't like the area and first year students won't be given funding but will in subsequent years, at the interview I was very impressed with the program, research interests overlap, IUP overall is a better program

UHart: good interview, the faculty seemed really nice and had a cute rapport with one another, really connected with the professor I interviewed with, great environment, funding opportunities are available, tuition overall is about $5000 less than IUP, on the topic of diversity the professor told me that the program talks the talk but needs to work on walking the walk, (their website is very outdated so some things done in the past are no longer being done, such as a Diversity Conference), research interests overlap, love the area, it is still a solid program.

What are yall's thoughts?!

As of now I am leaning toward UHart but I am all ears!

I'm not familiar with the program at IUP but I also interviewed at University of Hartford and got accepted. One of my supervisors told me that she had worked with alums from UHart in the past and didn't feel as though they had very good clinical training because it showed in their not-so-great work performance. Of course this is just one person's opinion but just thought I'd pass it along!
 
Please help me decide. I am literally torn between both of these programs. I have been offered admission into both programs so now I just need to choose.

IUP: great interview, really connected with the professors, awesome on-campus clinic, many forensic interests/opportunities, don't like the area and first year students won't be given funding but will in subsequent years, at the interview I was very impressed with the program, research interests overlap, IUP overall is a better program

UHart: good interview, the faculty seemed really nice and had a cute rapport with one another, really connected with the professor I interviewed with, great environment, funding opportunities are available, tuition overall is about $5000 less than IUP, on the topic of diversity the professor told me that the program talks the talk but needs to work on walking the walk, (their website is very outdated so some things done in the past are no longer being done, such as a Diversity Conference), research interests overlap, love the area, it is still a solid program.

What are yall's thoughts?!

As of now I am leaning toward UHart but I am all ears!

I was also accepted to IUP but I was told that the funding is not guaranteed in the subsequent years?
 
I was also accepted at IUP. I felt like it was a great fit. My understanding is they strongly believe/almost certain we will be funded in subsequent years, but they stopped short of guaranteeing it.
 
I was also accepted to IUP but I was told that the funding is not guaranteed in the subsequent years?

For most/all state universities, they cannot "guaranteed" funding for X-years in the off chance that major budget cuts happen, as they'd be contractually on the hook for that money. Most programs will say, "we typically fund our students for the first 4 years of their training through X, Y, Z funding sources, which includes certain TA/RA responsibilities for the dept." What you want to find out is that in the past 4-5 years...how many students did they fund, for how much, and for how long. It isn't 100% predictive (obviously), but it would help me feel better about their ability to follow through on funding. Some programs offer full funding, but it is limited to 2 spots with another 4 spots getting 50% funding + other RA/TA options. There are all sorts of combinations, but you want to know what is most likely. If a place takes in 20 students, but only 2 get full rides, everyone else fights for a handful of TA/RA-ships, and the rest of the students are unfunded...that would be a problem.

FWIW...I have heard very good things about IUoP and I have met a couple of their students at conferences and thought they represented themselves well. Small sample, but I thought I'd share anyway.
 
They've historically funded 100% of students at at least a 50% level plus a small stipend. Thanks to governor Corbett next year will be the first year in the programs existence that that isn't the case. In fact no first years will be funded. They expect this cohort will be funded for years 2, 3, and 4, and I know they are fighting for it. We are presently gripped by tea party anti-intellectual death by a thousand cuts politics at the executive and house level here in PA though and we will be at least another two years ... I'm hopeful funding will be restored for the program in subsequent years , but given the political situation I'm not holding my breath. I Hope this helps explain the IUP funding confusion so you can decide.
 
Hello,

I am trying to decide between St. John's PhD and Rutgers PsyD and would love feedback/opinions on the pros and cons of both. St. John's is a better funding situation (obviously). I am also a New Yorker who wants to stay, but clinical training is my priority.

Thanks!
 
I don't know much about St. John's, though I am aware of Rutger's solid reputation as a fully funded PsyD program. I do think the stigma of PhD vs. PsyD is unfortunately still out there to some degree, and likely will not change anytime soon with the profligation of for-profit schools. As such, the PhD might help you navigate through academic circles more easily, if that is a door you'd like to keep open. That said, if clinical training is your priority go with the program that serves you better in that regard. The public doesn't care whether you have a PhD or PsyD and frankly, 80% of professionals don't either.
 
I don't know much about St. John's, though I am aware of Rutger's solid reputation as a fully funded PsyD program. I do think the stigma of PhD vs. PsyD is unfortunately still out there to some degree, and likely will not change anytime soon with the profligation of for-profit schools. As such, the PhD might help you navigate through academic circles more easily, if that is a door you'd like to keep open. That said, if clinical training is your priority go with the program that serves you better in that regard. The public doesn't care whether you have a PhD or PsyD and frankly, 80% of professionals don't either.

Not to say that Rutgers isn't a solid program (I believe it is), but their Psy.D. program is not fully funded. I believe some students get partial funding, but I know someone currently in that program who had to take out ~100K in loans to cover tuition and living expenses.

Just something to keep in mind.
 
Not to say that Rutgers isn't a solid program (I believe it is), but their Psy.D. program is not fully funded. I believe some students get partial funding, but I know someone currently in that program who had to take out ~100K in loans to cover tuition and living expenses.

Just something to keep in mind.

There seems to be constant confusion about this. I hear of Rutgers as being referred to as a "fully funded PsyD" by many posters. I agree that their reputation is stellar - they are probably the most well-regarded of all PsyD programs in North America.

If I could be sure I'd get away with no more than 50-80K of total debt from Rutgers, I'd be strongly tempted - I think the clinical training there is probably outstanding.
 
Rutgers is not fully funded by any means- after the first year it basically unfunded
 
There seems to be constant confusion about this. I hear of Rutgers as being referred to as a "fully funded PsyD" by many posters. I agree that their reputation is stellar - they are probably the most well-regarded of all PsyD programs in North America.

If I could be sure I'd get away with no more than 50-80K of total debt from Rutgers, I'd be strongly tempted - I think the clinical training there is probably outstanding.

I know several alumni from Rutger's PsyD program and interviewed there several years ago. I declined acceptance to attend a fully funded PhD program. To my understanding, first-year students are ONLY partially funded (some are fully funded if they are minorities etc). You are then on your own the rest of the 5 years and can compete for some clinical positions and research grants. It was also expensive for a state school (something like 20K per year). Lastly, I spoke to current students and alumni and found out that students have to be really assertive and proactive to get adequate mentoring. They have increased the class size to about 20 in recent years. One alumni I know has over 150K in debt. I would speak to several alumni and ask them about debt vs. salary levels, especially given budget cuts at state universities.

Like others are saying though the clinical training is excellent.
 
Ah, my mistake. I thought it was from previous posts on this board.

Not your fault, I've been confused too.

From what I've seen, Rutgers is habitually referred to as "funded" or "substantially funded," or "partially funded," (not sure why this apparent misinformation continues to be perpetuated) and it looks like at best you may get some fraction approaching maybe a quarter of your tuition funded IF you're a minority or somehow otherwise in need.

Otherwise it sounds like their funding picture isn't much different than any other professional school.... a somewhat less expensive (but still prohibitively expensive?) PGSP-Stanford PsyD consortium of the east, perhaps?
 
Otherwise it sounds like their funding picture isn't much different than any other professional school.... a somewhat less expensive (but still prohibitively expensive?) PGSP-Stanford PsyD consortium of the east, perhaps?

I think you are right. Funding is only for the first year so subtract 30K-40K less in loans. I was able to locate information on their website. At least it is spelled out:

Full-Time Students - (Per semester)
Tuition - New Jersey Resident (12 credits or more)
$9,264.00
Tuition - Out of State Resident (12 credits or more)
$14,964.00
Campus Fee (9 credits or more)
$744.75
Computer Fee (based on credit hours) (12 credits or more)
$152.00
School Fee
$60.75

Financial Assistance
All incoming students are offered financial assistance for the first year. The minimum is usually $10,000. The maximum is usually a university fellowship from $15,000 plus tuition. After the first year, students obtain paid clinical practica and clinical research jobs.

After the first year, how likely is it to get clinical research jobs that pay full tuition? I believe the total tuition will come out to something like 60-80K without living expenses assuming you only get funded 1st year and do not get additional funding.
 
So...the ONLY fully funded PsyD program is Baylor.

Is this accurate? Virginia Consortium has moved to a PhD model.
 
I think you are right. Funding is only for the first year so subtract 30K-40K less in loans. I was able to locate information on their website. At least it is spelled out:

Full-Time Students - (Per semester)
Tuition - New Jersey Resident (12 credits or more)
$9,264.00
Tuition - Out of State Resident (12 credits or more)
$14,964.00
Campus Fee (9 credits or more)
$744.75
Computer Fee (based on credit hours) (12 credits or more)
$152.00
School Fee
$60.75

Financial Assistance
All incoming students are offered financial assistance for the first year. The minimum is usually $10,000. The maximum is usually a university fellowship from $15,000 plus tuition. After the first year, students obtain paid clinical practica and clinical research jobs.

After the first year, how likely is it to get clinical research jobs that pay full tuition? I believe the total tuition will come out to something like 60-80K without living expenses assuming you only get funded 1st year and do not get additional funding.

So with living expenses factored in (New Jersey probably isn't cheap - although it's cheap compared to Palo Alto) it can easily approach 100K+..... it sounds like average debt loads from Rutgers might be probably around 1/2 to maybe 1/3 of PGSP-Stanford, to be fair (with clinical training that is comparable).
 
So...the ONLY fully funded PsyD program is Baylor.

Is this accurate? Virginia Consortium has moved to a PhD model.

Is that *actually* true? Are Baylor and Virginia truly fully funded?
 
Is that *actually* true? Are Baylor and Virginia truly fully funded?

Baylor is the only PsyD program that is fully funded with stipend and tuition remission all 4 years. 5th year you are getting paid for internship (the location is cheap so I think the stipends are okay?):

Tuition adjustments: Students in good standing in the first three years of the Psy.D. program receive full tuition remission along with practicum salaries/stipend- around $12,000 a year. All students in their successful advancement to their fourth year in the program receives a stipend of $19,000 in addition to full tuition to enable the student to participate in the clinical research laboratory and conduct the dissertation research. In addition there are opportunities for students to obtain one or two assistantships (usually $1,200 per semester) over the course of the program beyond the general support described above.
 
Hello,

I am trying to decide between St. John's PhD and Rutgers PsyD and would love feedback/opinions on the pros and cons of both. St. John's is a better funding situation (obviously). I am also a New Yorker who wants to stay, but clinical training is my priority.

Thanks!


You will definitely get more clinical training at Rutgers. St. John's has a very rigorous research component and most students spend the majority of their days working on research, both for their own projects and for faculty. I would suggest you go with Rutgers if you are really looking to get strong clinical training. I do not agree with previous posts about stigma. I interned at Yale a few years ago and many of the doctors/professors have PsyDs so I don't think one is favored over the other.
 
I have been accepted into the Alliant Clinical Psychology PhD program in Fresno and the Palo Alto U PhD program. If I go to Palo Alto I will come out thousands in debt because I will be paying for everything with loans. If I go to Alliant I wouldn't be too much in debt because I could commute from home. I know PAU has a better rep than Alliant. But will I be able to survive the 120k plus debt when I'm out? I am trying to find out if the better rep is worth the debt. I would like to work in a hospital or prison and I don't want the rep of my school and/or program to hurt my career when I'm done.
 
(Moving to the "Help Me Decide" mega thread.)

Honestly, I'd say neither is a good decision. You will be in way too much debt from either program, and that's just not feasible in clinical psychology. Also, while PAU's APA match rates are better than Alliant's, they're still not great. My advice would be to take a year and consider other options, specifically applying to *funded* PhD programs.

Also, I think going to a large program, like PAU or Alliant, is particularly inadvisable for a PhD, where close research mentorship is key.
 
I have been accepted into the Alliant Clinical Psychology PhD program in Fresno and the Palo Alto U PhD program. If I go to Palo Alto I will come out thousands in debt because I will be paying for everything with loans. If I go to Alliant I wouldn't be too much in debt because I could commute from home. I know PAU has a better rep than Alliant. But will I be able to survive the 120k plus debt when I'm out? I am trying to find out if the better rep is worth the debt. I would like to work in a hospital or prison and I don't want the rep of my school and/or program to hurt my career when I'm done.

I can't imagine that Alliant is cheap, either. Quickly browsing their website reveals that for the clinical PsyD program, the cost is $1030 per credit unit (plus fees), with the degree requiring 90 academic units and 30 internship units...and regarding that latter point, 30 units for internship, seriously?! That means you'll be paying just under $93,000 for your academic credits and just over $30,000 for internship (!!!!!). All this is assuming, of course, that you don't take longer than the minimum number of years and credits to graduate.

Thus, you're likely looking at $120+k in expenses at either program. For that kind of money, I wouldn't recommend either program, although the rep of PAU is much, much better than Alliant. Although as futureapppsy2 mentioned, PAU's PhD program (as opposed to its PsyD program) doesn't have the greatest internship match rates/outcomes. Particularly when considering the cost.

In all honesty, though, I'd recommend you strongly consider re-applying next year after strengthening your application, and stick to targeting fully (or at least significantly partially) funded programs.
 
I have been accepted into the Alliant Clinical Psychology PhD program in Fresno and the Palo Alto U PhD program. If I go to Palo Alto I will come out thousands in debt because I will be paying for everything with loans. If I go to Alliant I wouldn't be too much in debt because I could commute from home. I know PAU has a better rep than Alliant. But will I be able to survive the 120k plus debt when I'm out? I am trying to find out if the better rep is worth the debt. I would like to work in a hospital or prison and I don't want the rep of my school and/or program to hurt my career when I'm done.

I agree with what others are saying. Both these schools also do not have good APA internship match rates, particularly Alliant. Not attending an APA internship WILL limit your employment options, particularly for federal government jobs. It's better to take an extra year then take out 150-200K and find yourself in a hole 6 years later. I would only consider funded PhD programs or even MSW programs (if you are only interested in clinical work/therapy). I would also only consider schools with a minimum 80-85% APA internship match rate (not APPIC or CAPIC).

CAPIC internships are particularly damaging since they seem to lead to unpaid/barely paid postdocs, if you find anything at all. Many CAPIC internships are also unpaid or provide ridiculously low stipends (3,000-6,000 per year) even though you are working full-time. These are the type of things that the website DOES NOT disclose when they say that "100% of the students matched for internship." Talk about misleading.
 
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I'm hoping someone could answer a question i've had trouble answering to others in my life when they ask why i'm going straight from bachelors to a doctoral program:

In what situation, or under what circumstances, would it be beneficial to attend a masters program as a stepping stone to improving one's chances to be admitted to a doctoral program?

I understand a lot of what masters teaches is taught again in a phd program, and that little if any of it will transfer over. I also understand the price tag on a masters program can be hefty, especially compared to just buckling down at your alma mater and RA'ing for a mentor there for experience.

What i've had trouble explaining is ignoring the potentially unique opportunity to better study some populations or topics that simply aren't available at my undergrad. I'm interested in assessment of threat and risk for future offending, assessment of competency, and understanding the etiology of violent crime and violent behavior -- the lab im volunteering at now is in human and animal cognition.

Only by a long stretch of explanation in a personal statement can i elaborate on how studying self regulation and self control gives me experience in studying individuals with impulsive personalities and their respective outcomes on our cognition tests. There's nothing else at my undergrad any closer to forensic psychology or its subtopics or i'd be RA'ing there as a volunteer instead.

Furthermore, i've heard attending a masters program sometimes puts you at a disadvantage when competing for a spot in a doctoral program.

Two questions: why is this? What is the thinking behind some (even a minority of) programs looking disparagingly at a masters before a doctorate?

Second: is it ( the unique chance to get relevant research experience and publishing opportunities) enough of a reason to pay for 2 or 3 years of masters knowing i'll go through a lot of it again?

Thanks in advance for any input..
 
Hey guys,

I applied to counseling psych Ph.D. programs this year and was outright rejected from four, accepted to the master’s at four and wait listed at one, which, luckily, happens to be my first choice. I’m hanging out on the wait list there but have to start being practical about my options in case that doesn't pan out. I’m deciding between University at Albany’s clinical mental health counseling MS and Rutgers’s counseling psychology Ed.M. UAlbany seems really solid except that research isn't built into the curriculum. I have very little information about Rutgers's program (only what's on their website), so I don’t have a good idea of what I’d be getting into there. I emailed the adviser I was assigned, and to say that she was less than helpful would be generous. Does anyone know anything about the program at Rutgers? I know most people on here are in clinical, but I thought I’d ask around just in case.

Thanks in advance for any help!
 
Any other thoughts on the Rutgers vs. St. John's debate?

It sounds like you're looking for clinical experience. Rutgers has an outstanding clinical program. I'm also leaning towards this program in my decision making process. There is much more emphasis on practice because its a PsyD. Personally, I think the financial aid is pretty good for a PsyD program. If you get a fellowship it should cover just about full tuition. They also have other opportunities/scholarships to rack up some more money. After that you can get paid for clinical work. Also, remember that your course load will go down each year so it won't cost as much after the first year. I also like that they focus on practice within the community, especially under served populations. I'm not sure what your interests are, but its a great place to get experience with diverse people. They seem to have an outstanding faculty and I'm intrigued by the idea of being able to specialize in a specific area. Plus I think 12 out of 13 applicants got internship last year. Anyways, those are the things I've been considering while I'm deciding.

I don't know much about St. John's, but from what I've heard they do research like 20 hours a week for their assistantships. That leads me to believe that there's not as much clinical work going on.
 
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