Help me think through this SMP situation- Drexel vs Georgetown

[nosarcasm]

Hello,

I was accepted into Georgetown's SMP back in October, and was absolutely thrilled, because it was my top choice, based mostly off what I had read here. I understand that it is an expensive, competitive program, but it's notoriety is what I'm banking on.

I am a California resident, I graduated from a top UC in 2012 with a double major and a cGPA of 3.3 and a sGPA of 3.0. I have a 32 MCAT (9 PS/10 V/ 13 BS) I have nearly five years of volunteer work for hospice, 3 years of full-time research at UCSF, I teach music lessons locally, and do bedside singing at the hospital, among other volunteer/leadership endeavors/shadowing. My main point is, I'm well-rounded, but my stats (specifically GPA) are really the limiting factor in my getting admitted to medical school.

I applied this cycle to both MD and DO schools, but haven't gotten any interviews (I'm not completely shocked by this, but a little bit disappointed). I had applied to SMPs to ensure I had a backup plan.

I am originally from the Sacramento area, and so I applied to Drexel's IMS program there, despite not having seen a wealth of positive feedback about it here. I was recently informed that I got into that program, as well. Georgetown had been my first choice, but now I find myself debating the two options. I would absolutely love to stay in California, but I've also never lived out of state, and DC is really enticing. What's not enticing is how much money Georgetown's program costs. Also, the advisors at Georgetown think I should re-apply this cycle, before I start the program. Isn't this ill-advised? Because my GPA is the weakest point in my application, shouldn't I wait until I've received my grades? I know that Georgetown only does it's special SMP student interviews the year you are in the SMP, so I'll apply anyway, even if it's just to Georgetown, but should I apply elsewhere as well?

Or, if I go the Drexel route, should I finish my first year and apply during my second? Or follow the formula Georgetown's advisors gave me, and apply before entering the program, and hope for the best? In this scenario, I would not receive a Master's, which I don't totally care about, but I do like that Georgetown gives you a Master's degree after the 11 month program is complete.

Sorry if this is a jumbled mess. My mind is in knots, and I don't have much guidance, other than what I glean from here. I appreciate all responses!

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[babyface10111]

Georgetown likes having its students apply the year of because
1. They want to catch any students who do well in the SMP before they become competitive for other schools
2. If, by some luck, students get accepted the year they are doing the SMP, that'll give the SMP favorable stats they can advertise

The students that get accepted to Georgetown the year of the SMP either
1. did really, incredibly, close to 4.0 level well in their classes
2. Had a reasonable MCAT score (31+ but higher the better probably)
3. Had reasonable undergrad GPAs (3.4+ I'm guessing but again higher the better. Maybe even 3.5, 3.6)
4. Compelling clinical/extracurricular experiences that would, again, make them competitive for other schools if they do well in the SMP

The students that get accepted to some other place but not Georgetown the year of the SMP either
1. had compelling clinical/extracurriculars that could somehow outshadow their low stats
2. Had pretty decent stats to begin with, maybe wouldn't even have needed the SMP if they were strategic on other aspects of their application
3. darn lucky

Don't get me wrong, I think the Georgetown SMP is a fantastic program. I'm probably headed there next year as well. But, like you, I thought long and hard about whether I should apply the year of or the year later.
Honestly, if you have the money, just go for it. If you get lucky, you get lucky, and you'll be a doctor faster. If you apply, you have even a 1% chance. If you don't, you have 0%.
But do realize that initially when you apply, you will really have nothing changed about your weak area. Other than some other activities, you'll be applying with the same stats that got you rejected everywhere.
With 30,000+ highly qualified applicants, schools do not have to set your application aside to see how you do in your SMP classes during the year (although I wish they would haha)

But like I said above, if money's an issue, evidence clearly shows that you should save your resources for the year after.

 

[nosarcasm]

Georgetown likes having its students apply the year of because
1. They want to catch any students who do well in the SMP before they become competitive for other schools
2. If, by some luck, students get accepted the year they are doing the SMP, that'll give the SMP favorable stats they can advertise

The students that get accepted to Georgetown the year of the SMP either
1. did really, incredibly, close to 4.0 level well in their classes
2. Had a reasonable MCAT score (31+ but higher the better probably)
3. Had reasonable undergrad GPAs (3.4+ I'm guessing but again higher the better. Maybe even 3.5, 3.6)
4. Compelling clinical/extracurricular experiences that would, again, make them competitive for other schools if they do well in the SMP

The students that get accepted to some other place but not Georgetown the year of the SMP either
1. had compelling clinical/extracurriculars that could somehow outshadow their low stats
2. Had pretty decent stats to begin with, maybe wouldn't even have needed the SMP if they were strategic on other aspects of their application
3. darn lucky

Don't get me wrong, I think the Georgetown SMP is a fantastic program. I'm probably headed there next year as well. But, like you, I thought long and hard about whether I should apply the year of or the year later.
Honestly, if you have the money, just go for it. If you get lucky, you get lucky, and you'll be a doctor faster. If you apply, you have even a 1% chance. If you don't, you have 0%.
But do realize that initially when you apply, you will really have nothing changed about your weak area. Other than some other activities, you'll be applying with the same stats that got you rejected everywhere.
With 30,000+ highly qualified applicants, schools do not have to set your application aside to see how you do in your SMP classes during the year (although I wish they would haha)

But like I said above, if money's an issue, evidence clearly shows that you should save your resources for the year after.

Thank you for this. We are absolutely on the same page. The advisor at Gerogetown said that putting that you are enrolled in the program on your AMCAS application is considered a "big change," and that many schools will wait for your first grades to come out before looking at your application. Because Georgetown does their classes in blocks and not by semester, I think the first grades are available after 6ish weeks. That's only one set of grades though, so while it might give an indication to my performance in the program, it definitely won't suffice to make up for my undergrad grades.

So if I'm reading your response correctly, you think I should just apply to Georgetown this cycle, since it's the only time I can use the SMP slight advantage connection, but probably bank more on applying broadly in 2016. What do you think about Drexel? That would give me something to do in that gap year, and I'd still get a Master's. And it's cheaper and only about 20 minutes from where I grew up. I've been working full time for three years, but I live in SF, which is incredibly expensive, so I will definitely go into debt no matter what program I choose.

 

[DrMidlife]

The students that get accepted to some other place but not Georgetown the year of the SMP either
1. had compelling clinical/extracurriculars that could somehow outshadow their low stats
2. Had pretty decent stats to begin with, maybe wouldn't even have needed the SMP if they were strategic on other aspects of their application
3. darn lucky

4. Maxed out their MCAT before starting the SMP.
5. Aren't from California. UC's won't consider incomplete academic work or wait for your grades.

 

[nosarcasm]

4. Maxed out their MCAT before starting the SMP.
5. Aren't from California. UC's won't consider incomplete academic work or wait for your grades.

Ah! DrMidLife! I'm a huge fan... Honestly, I've been reading through all of these SMP threads, and your knowledge and advice to other applicants has been so helpful to me.

What do you think of the Drexel IMS program (keep in mind it's the Sacramento campus, so it's all web-based, and the class size is tiny)? Am I crazy to be thinking of it over Georgetown?

 

[babyface10111]

Thank you for this. We are absolutely on the same page. The advisor at Gerogetown said that putting that you are enrolled in the program on your AMCAS application is considered a "big change," and that many schools will wait for your first grades to come out before looking at your application. Because Georgetown does their classes in blocks and not by semester, I think the first grades are available after 6ish weeks. That's only one set of grades though, so while it might give an indication to my performance in the program, it definitely won't suffice to make up for my undergrad grades.

So if I'm reading your response correctly, you think I should just apply to Georgetown this cycle, since it's the only time I can use the SMP slight advantage connection, but probably bank more on applying broadly in 2016. What do you think about Drexel? That would give me something to do in that gap year, and I'd still get a Master's. And it's cheaper and only about 20 minutes from where I grew up. I've been working full time for three years, but I live in SF, which is incredibly expensive, so I will definitely go into debt no matter what program I choose.

I think you should definitely apply to Georgetown this cycle, since you'll be in the SMP.
Most successful applicants during the year of the SMP are accepted to their state schools. But since you're from Cali, that might be a bit problematic.
If you want to try your luck at a few other schools, check out THE BOOK and try to find schools where your stats aren't too below their mean/median. Also try to find schools where your experiences/story match the mission statement. Who knows, you might get lucky. But really keep in mind the probability that you will be reapplying the next year.

If the Drexel program is online, I'm not sure how much weight it would give your application (but I honestly don't know much about this program to say...). Schools know the rigor of Georgetown SMP and it is highly regarded among SMPs. Wouldn't you rather go to a program that's more highly regarded? It is expensive though, I must admit.

 

[DrMidlife]

No way I'd do a web-based SMP. There's no special in that "S". You can do a terminal masters anywhere.

California's just too competitive to sit on a 3.3/3.0/32 and go to Gtown and expect to come home. If you go to Gtown you'll have to focus on OOS schools, after finishing the program. If you're borrowing, that means you'll be in the $300k+ club. Crappy club to be in.

In your shoes I'd put everything into getting into a UC. Do another year of full time work through BerkX or similar, and 4.0 it. Squeeze out some more MCAT points. And then seriously consider also doing an SMP.

Alternatively, go after a traditional masters and get some pubs out of it. Better MCAT. Then reapply. This could satisfy your interest in spending some time out of California. You can consider changing your state of residency but be paranoid about the rules for that - being a student in another state doesn't turn you instate there, except in Ohio, which might not do it anymore.

See the reapp forum for endless cautionary tales from thwarted Californians.

Best of luck to you.

 

[nosarcasm]

No way I'd do a web-based SMP. There's no special in that "S". You can do a terminal masters anywhere.

California's just too competitive to sit on a 3.3/30/32 and go to Gtown and expect to come home. If you go to Gtown you'll have to focus on OOS schools, after finishing the program. If you're borrowing, that means you'll be in the $300k+ club. Crappy club to be in.

In your shoes I'd put everything into getting into a UC. Do another year of full time work through BerkX or similar, and 4.0 it. Squeeze out some more MCAT points. And then seriously consider also doing an SMP.

Alternatively, go after a traditional masters and get some pubs out of it. Better MCAT. Then reapply. This could satisfy your interest in spending some time out of California. You can consider changing your state of residency but be paranoid about the rules for that - being a student in another state doesn't turn you instate there, except in Ohio, which might not do it anymore.

See the reapp forum for endless cautionary tales from thwarted Californians.

Best of luck to you.

The CA applicant situation is absolutely no fun. I want to do primary care, so being in the $300k+ club is definitely not a club I want to be in.

The Drexel program has a much better tie-in to Drexel than Georgetown does to Georgetown, so if I perform well in the program, I can get an interview and have a very decent shot at a seat in their class. I've also heard that the IMS at Drexel does not meet with the actual medical students either, so it doesn't seem super special, but it gets folks into medical school.

An unfortunate thing is I have extremely close ties to UCSF since I've worked here full-time (as a researcher) for three years, I volunteer here, and I am very active in the community. I was lucky enough to receive a secondary from them this cycle despite my stats, which was mind-blowing, but I obviously was rejected eventually. I say my ties here are unfortunate because I don't think I will ever really have a chance of getting into school here.

The thought of studying for the new MCAT makes me want to cry. I thought I was done with that test, but oh well. I'm willing to do whatever I need to do to get to where I want to be. I just want to do it as efficiently (both in time and finances) as possible.

Thank you again for taking the time to help me sort this out. I can't even express how appreciative I am.

 

[tomz1385]

Sacramento IMS is not a "web based" SMP (meaning it isn't like an online only program). The lectures are broadcasted and recorded, yes, but that isn't any different than sitting in a lecture. Most med students do this anyways. The exams are the exact same as what med students take. If you are worried about what it would mean when applying, the dean of the program writes a letter and sends it to schools explaining what the program entails so admission committees are aware you are taking the same exams and are graded against the medical school curve.

You have to meet up for all of the labs and conferences in small groups, and most of the time the course directors for the medical school video conference in to lead the discussions and run small groups. For microanatomy labs, they are virtual labs - like what we use in the med school. We have a phd on site teaching those labs. They have slides for scavenger hunts, but I don't think many schools even use regular slides for histology anymore.

In terms of success, many of the students from Sacramento have gotten into Drexel and other schools in the past few years as noted in my other posts.

In regards to what I posted on reddit, you should not start an SMP if you are not ready to do well. If you aren't able to get 3.8+'s with many semester units of upper division science work, you are just going to doom yourself if you haven't fixed your study habits. The MCAT score is fine for the typical student that Drexel accepts.

Meeting with medical students doesn't matter, but some of the students on rotation in Sacramento come by if you were worried. I say that meeting with medical students doesn't matter because students aren't allowed to interview any candidates they know, and students on the admissions committee are not allowed to vote / asked to step out if they know a candidate at Drexel.