Help with MD-PhD Application Cycle

[ashkicking]

Hello,

I am in the process of applying to MD-PhD programs this cycle with the intention of matriculating in Fall 2016. I was wondering if you guys could help me out at all with regards to this application cycle and the steps I need to take at this point.

I submitted approximately 20 secondary applications to both MSTP and non-MSTP MD-PhD programs, but was rejected by all except:

Indiana University, Tulane Universty, UIC, UMass, UC Irvine, Rutgers NJMS, UConn, and Geisel

I applied for Immunology at these programs.

I was fortunate enough to receive interview invites from Indiana and Tulane, but have not heard anything from either institution since my interviews in November. Based on my last contact with Indiana, I was on hold status for their application review this month which I was told would be occurring some time this week, but I have yet to hear back. The other programs I have not been rejected from thus far have not informed me whether I will be receiving an interview or not.

As the application cycle is coming to a close, I am a bit nervous regarding my prospects for this cycle. I have contacted the directors at both Indiana and Tulane regarding my continued interest at the universities, and while the director at Tulane did not respond, the director at Indiana responded to my e-mail positively. I have similarly updated the other programs I am waiting for a response from with my continue interest in the programs. I wanted to know if you guys had any advice for anything I could do at this point in the cycle to improve my prospects, or if you have any advice for what I should do to plan for a future MD-PhD application cycle. A summary of my application is listed below:

Undergrad: Cornell University

Major: Biology (minor in Music)

cGPA: 3.744

sGPA: 3.6

MCAT: 513

Research experience: 2 years at taste physiology lab at Cornell where I still work, 1 summer internship at stem cell oncology lab at UCSD, 1 summer internship at Pfizer Oncology, 1 year at small biotech company during senior year of high school.

Publications: 2 poster presentations from the small biotech company, pending poster presentation for research at my lab at Cornell (I am completing an honors thesis as well, and hope to submit my work for publication at the end of the school year)

Clinical Experience: 40 hours physician shadowing at UC Moores Cancer Center

Extracurricular: 12 years of playing saxophone both solo and in ensembles (currently principal chair in my university wind ensemble and a guest musician with the orchestra), Mentor in my university's undergraduate research board

I recognize that one of the weaknesses in my application is my lack of clinical volunteering and service, and in the event that I must take a gap year I plan on making sure I increase my experience in both of those fields.

Thank you very much in advance for the help. Please let me know if you require any other information.

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[starfun21]

Hey @ashkicking!!! I remember you from the IU interview, actually Hope you are doing well! I'm just a lowly student applying as well, but I can hopefully chime in about a few things.

One possibly important thing to know here -- when did you complete all of your secondaries?

I know that UC Irvine has at least a few interview slots left. It wouldn't surprise me if Geisel does as well, but I'm not sure about that one. I can't comment on the others -- maybe some of our other friends here on SDN know? The national calendar is generally accurate and might also help you determine if those schools have any interview slots left: https://calendar.google.com/[email protected]&pli=1.

With that being said, I think you have a great shot at IU, and I'd encourage you not to give up just yet. They have definitely been giving out post-interview rejections, so the fact that you're still in the running is great news. They also mentioned at the interview that it is super important to keep in touch to express your interest, and it looks like you've done that really well.

For the MD side, no volunteering (if I gather right from your post?) may be a fairly big red flag, but I do not get the sense that it is as huge of a deal for MD/PhD. The issue may be with some schools where you need to pass the MD side first to get to the MD/PhD. I think I've seen forums where Fencer, an MD/PhD director on here, has posted that it is best to have about 100 hours of clinical shadowing (I imagine clinical volunteering would also suffice) to convince the med school to let you in. So you are a bit on the low side of that, but it sounds like you have plans to tackle those areas of your app if and when the time comes.

If you have to apply again next year, I'd suggest sticking with the plans you already have to improve your app (already fantastic, by the way, and I'm pulling for you!!), as well as making sure that you have multiple people reading over your essays. It's such a hard spot to be in because you (like me, and there's a chance I may have to do a second cycle as well) applied to so many schools, and it stinks because next cycle we'd both be labeled as re-applicants. But I'll keep crossing my fingers that one of your remaining options works out for you. It sounds like you've kept in touch well and I think that's all you can do at this point -- but we'll keep cheering for you here on SDN!!

 

[ashkicking]

Hey @ashkicking!!! I remember you from the IU interview, actually Hope you are doing well! I'm just a lowly student applying as well, but I can hopefully chime in about a few things.

One possibly important thing to know here -- when did you complete all of your secondaries?

I know that UC Irvine has at least a few interview slots left. It wouldn't surprise me if Geisel does as well, but I'm not sure about that one. I can't comment on the others -- maybe some of our other friensd here on SDN know? The national calendar is generally accurate and might also help you determine if those schools have any interview slots left: https://calendar.google.com/[email protected]&pli=1.

With that being said, I think you have a great shot at IU, and I'd encourage you not to give up just yet. They have definitely been giving out rejections, so the fact that you're still in the running is great news. They also mentioned at the interview that it is super important to keep in touch to express your interest, and it looks like you've done that really well.

For the MD side, no volunteering (if I gather right from your post?) may be a fairly big red flag, but I do not get the sense that it is as huge of a deal for MD/PhD. The issue may be with some schools where you need to pass the MD side first to get to the MD/PhD. I think I've seen forums where Fencer, an MD/PhD director on here, has posted that it is best to have about 100 hours of clinical shadowing (I imagine clinical volunteering would also suffice) to convince the med school to let you in. So you are a bit on the low side of that, but it sounds like you have plans to tackle those areas of your app if and when the time comes. It sounds like you're doing just about everything right!

If you have to apply again next year, I'd suggest sticking with the plans you already have to improve your app (already fantastic, by the way, and I'm pulling for you!!), as well as making sure that you have multiple people reading over your essays. It's such a hard spot to be in because you (like me, and there's a chance I may have to do a second cycle as well) applied to so many schools, and it stinks because next cycle we'd both be labeled as re-applicants. But I'll keep crossing my fingers that one of your remaining options works out for you. It sounds like you've kept in touch well and I think that's all you can do at this point -- but we'll keep cheering for you here on SDN!!

Thanks a lot for the reply @starfun21 ! I haven't posted much in this forum, but I've definitely lurked enough to see how awesome and encouraging you've been to all of us fellow applicants; I've been rooting for you as well, and I really hope things work out for us .

I appreciate your advice, and in the case that I have to re-apply I will definitely incorporate it in my plans.

As for IU, I understand that they have sent pre-interview rejections, but have they also sent post-interview rejections? I don't think I've seen much activity on Student Doctor with regards to IU MSTP aside from one acceptance. It's probably my top choice program, so I really hope I do get good news from them ! But the wait has been dreadful haha...

Thanks again, you've been really great and I wish you the best!

 

[ashkicking]

Hey @ashkicking!!! I remember you from the IU interview, actually Hope you are doing well! I'm just a lowly student applying as well, but I can hopefully chime in about a few things.

One possibly important thing to know here -- when did you complete all of your secondaries?

I know that UC Irvine has at least a few interview slots left. It wouldn't surprise me if Geisel does as well, but I'm not sure about that one. I can't comment on the others -- maybe some of our other friensd here on SDN know? The national calendar is generally accurate and might also help you determine if those schools have any interview slots left: https://calendar.google.com/[email protected]&pli=1.

With that being said, I think you have a great shot at IU, and I'd encourage you not to give up just yet. They have definitely been giving out rejections, so the fact that you're still in the running is great news. They also mentioned at the interview that it is super important to keep in touch to express your interest, and it looks like you've done that really well.

For the MD side, no volunteering (if I gather right from your post?) may be a fairly big red flag, but I do not get the sense that it is as huge of a deal for MD/PhD. The issue may be with some schools where you need to pass the MD side first to get to the MD/PhD. I think I've seen forums where Fencer, an MD/PhD director on here, has posted that it is best to have about 100 hours of clinical shadowing (I imagine clinical volunteering would also suffice) to convince the med school to let you in. So you are a bit on the low side of that, but it sounds like you have plans to tackle those areas of your app if and when the time comes. It sounds like you're doing just about everything right!

If you have to apply again next year, I'd suggest sticking with the plans you already have to improve your app (already fantastic, by the way, and I'm pulling for you!!), as well as making sure that you have multiple people reading over your essays. It's such a hard spot to be in because you (like me, and there's a chance I may have to do a second cycle as well) applied to so many schools, and it stinks because next cycle we'd both be labeled as re-applicants. But I'll keep crossing my fingers that one of your remaining options works out for you. It sounds like you've kept in touch well and I think that's all you can do at this point -- but we'll keep cheering for you here on SDN!!

I forgot to answer one part of your post:

I completed my secondaries around July/August!

 

[eteshoe]

Just wanted to add that most MD/PhD programs do want their applicants to have some clinical exposure (typically not as much as a straight MD applicant) in addition to extensive research experience (which you have plenty).

 

[xTheCrowingx]

Wow, the fact that your options are limited for this application cycle truly demonstrates how competitive it is...I know a few people have contacted places that they haven't heard from, and the institutions are pretty nice about letting you know if they are giving out any more interview invites or not. I would say DEFINITELY keep your interests up with Tulane and Indiana, as you have a good shot at them. Keep up contact with the directors, and make sure to update them with any info, no matter how small. If you do re-apply, I would definitely continue research (your research profile to date is already impressive!!) and get a little more clinical/other volunteer experience.

Curious about people's input on this point, too. Seems like most programs only really look at college seniors if their stats are particularly impressive...at almost every school I interviewed at they have mentioned the MCAT/my GPA. This makes sense given that us seniors haven't had any full-time research/other kinds of experiences. So, though I think your shots will be better if you re-apply to gain some other experience, I would definitely keep your grades up and (frightens me to say...) you may want to re-take the MCAT, as well...while you did take the new MCAT and the score comparisons are not totally straight yet, your MCAT score is a little low given your slightly lower sGPA, as well.

Regardless, I still think you have a great shot with the schools you did interview at, and am crossing my fingers that you get into one of them! And definitely consider contacting the programs you have heard nothing from. If you do have to re-apply, so be it...I know a couple of people here are re-applicants and they have been pretty positive about their experience.

 

[ashkicking]

Thank you very much for the feedback; at this point I'm looking to strengthen my application in any way that I can!

With regards to keeping in touch with the directors of the programs I have interviewed at, how much is too much (this may be a little neurotic haha)? In the example of Indiana, which remains my undisputed top choice program, I contacted the director a few days following my interview in November, which he responded to positively. A month later in December, I followed up letting him know that the program was in fact my top choice program and I would accept an offer immediately if provided one. However, this e-mail was responded to immediately with an auto-reply letting me know that he was away with limited e-mail access. While there is a chance he never saw my e-mail, I left it at that and am hoping for the best. Is there anything more I should do at this point?

 

[starfun21]

Thanks a lot for the reply @starfun21 ! I haven't posted much in this forum, but I've definitely lurked enough to see how awesome and encouraging you've been to all of us fellow applicants; I've been rooting for you as well, and I really hope things work out for us .

I appreciate your advice, and in the case that I have to re-apply I will definitely incorporate it in my plans.

As for IU, I understand that they have sent pre-interview rejections, but have they also sent post-interview rejections? I don't think I've seen much activity on Student Doctor with regards to IU MSTP aside from one acceptance. It's probably my top choice program, so I really hope I do get good news from them ! But the wait has been dreadful haha...

Thanks again, you've been really great and I wish you the best!

You're so welcome!! I hope that some of the rambling I did helped, LOL. I definitely know that IU has sent out post-interview rejections (as well as acceptances, as one was reported on SDN). I honestly believe that most folks were waitlisted though. They said at the interview that we would hear "by the end of February," which I kind of took to mean that most would start to hear in February or so. This seems to line up with what they told you over the phone -- so just hang in there a little longer! Fingers crossed for great news for you!!!

It sounds like you did an excellent job of applying early, which is always a huge help. My only other thing to consider, I suppose, would be: what were the other schools that you've been rejected from? Did you apply to all top-tier MSTPs and very low tier MD/PhD? Maybe eliminating extremes from your list might help, but not sure on this one since I'm not completely certain of where you applied. The biggest thing of course would be to make sure the schools you choose have things to offer for you in your field of interest! They will also realize this as they determine your fit for their program since they will want students to whom they can offer resources. With that being said, it's also important to make sure that you don't rule out every other field and come across as being open to explore more research in the future. It's quite a balance!!

The other major thing I would again emphasize is to make sure you have multiple people reading over your essays multiple times. (This is one of the major parts of your essay that we can't see here based on stats, etc, so I have to recommend it be looked at). Your personal statement is super important, and having others read through it can answer some good questions. Especially try to ask people who you don't know very well. After reading it, how would they describe you? Why would they say you want to pursue medicine? Did any sentences accidentally rub them the wrong way or imply something you didn't mean? Hopefully those questions give you some ideas of ways to seek out help with the PS if needed. I know my friends and pre-med advisor were invaluable resources for me throughout this process; sometimes, other perspectives can change everything! Lastly, do you have any leadership experience -- and if not, can you acquire some? It may help for the MD side of things.... not sure what difference, if any, it will make for MD/PhD, but another thing to consider.

To answer your question about how much is too much (lol I've so wondered this myself!) -- when I've contacted schools, I've tried to tell them something slightly different each time. I really like what you've done so far with thanking them after the interview / expressing interest, and then following up later to say "you are my top choice." By chance, are there any updates to your application that you could provide to them? Maybe fall semester grades if you did well (especially since your sGPA is slightly low)? If so, I would suggest that you could maybe contact them one more time with an "update of interest" -- this is something that Fencer taught me about. It should be a pretty quick email, with one paragraph telling them about your update and then the other expressing that you are still very interested. If you interviewed with a specific researcher you could see yourself working with, mention him/her by name as a particularly excellent lab that you'd love the honor to further explore. Mention something that makes IU unique for your goals. If it comes down to you and someone else, this may give the school a way to envision you fitting in to their program and push your app right over the edge.

Thank you so, so much for your kind words. I'm so happy to be on this forum, and I really appreciate the compliments from kind people like yourself! Thank you!

 

[starfun21]

Also, just looked up Tulane's program -- if I'm reading that right, they only ACCEPT (not even matriculate, but accept?? Maybe they mean matriculate here) 2 students per year?! https://tulanepsp.wordpress.com/frequently-asked-questions/. Yikes, lol. It sounds like they're interviewing 30 students to accept maybe 5 or so at most... gahhhh! Your chances are IU might be higher based on this fact alone, but Tulane also really says only research is most important, plus they say most people will start hearing back post-interview in February so it's just a little longer to wait. I know you would be a great asset to either school, so hopefully they see your awesomeness!

This does bring up the final thing that I could possibly think of as I sat here and racked my brain lol -- along with the competitiveness and research interests of the program, be sure to look at the size of the program and how many applicants they receive/interview/matriculate, if available. This may not be an app killer, but it's always something great to keep in mind! If all of your schools are very, very small programs (and then the others are just super competitive, etc?), that could be contributing to why it's so hard to nab a spot? Again, I don't think this is a huge deal, but I'm trying to think of everything I can here and things you could possibly keep in mind if needing another cycle... but I'm pulling for you for this cycle!! There's still time!

 

[ashkicking]

You're so welcome!! I hope that some of the rambling I did helped, LOL. I definitely know that IU has sent out post-interview rejections (as well as acceptances, as one was reported on SDN). I honestly believe that most folks were waitlisted though. They said at the interview that we would hear "by the end of February," which I kind of took to mean that most would start to hear in February or so. This seems to line up with what they told you over the phone -- so just hang in there a little longer! Fingers crossed for great news for you!!!

It sounds like you did an excellent job of applying early, which is always a huge help. My only other thing to consider, I suppose, would be: what were the other schools that you've been rejected from? Did you apply to all top-tier MSTPs and very low tier MD/PhD? Maybe eliminating extremes from your list might help, but not sure on this one since I'm not completely certain of where you applied. The biggest thing of course would be to make sure the schools you choose have things to offer for you in your field of interest! They will also realize this as they determine your fit for their program since they will want students to whom they can offer resources. With that being said, it's also important to make sure that you don't rule out every other field and come across as being open to explore more research in the future. It's quite a balance!!

The other major thing I would again emphasize is to make sure you have multiple people reading over your essays multiple times. (This is one of the major parts of your essay that we can't see here based on stats, etc, so I have to recommend it be looked at). Your personal statement is super important, and having others read through it can answer some good questions. Especially try to ask people who you don't know very well. After reading it, how would they describe you? Why would they say you want to pursue medicine? Did any sentences accidentally rub them the wrong way or imply something you didn't mean? Hopefully those questions give you some ideas of ways to seek out help with the PS if needed. I know my friends and pre-med advisor were invaluable resources for me throughout this process; sometimes, other perspectives can change everything! Lastly, do you have any leadership experience -- and if not, can you acquire some? It may help for the MD side of things.... not sure what difference, if any, it will make for MD/PhD, but another thing to consider.

To answer your question about how much is too much (lol I've so wondered this myself!) -- when I've contacted schools, I've tried to tell them something slightly different each time. I really like what you've done so far with thanking them after the interview / expressing interest, and then following up later to say "you are my top choice." By chance, are there any updates to your application that you could provide to them? Maybe fall semester grades if you did well (especially since your sGPA is slightly low)? If so, I would suggest that you could maybe contact them one more time with an "update of interest" -- this is something that Fencer taught me about. It should be a pretty quick email, with one paragraph telling them about your update and then the other expressing that you are still very interested. If you interviewed with a specific researcher you could see yourself working with, mention him/her by name as a particularly excellent lab that you'd love the honor to further explore. Mention something that makes IU unique for your goals. If it comes down to you and someone else, this may give the school a way to envision you fitting in to their program and push your app right over the edge.

Thank you so, so much for your kind words. I'm so happy to be on this forum, and I really appreciate the compliments from kind people like yourself! Thank you!

Don't worry @starfun21 , your advice is extremely helpful, not at all rambling!

Thanks for letting me know about IU's admission status notification patterns, I had no clue that they had already sent out some post-interview rejections so it's good to know that we are still under consideration!

In the case that I have to apply again, I will definitely have to adjust my school list; I honestly think I reached too high aside from, coincidentally, the programs I am waiting to hear from! So I will definitely look up which schools are better geared towards fields I'm interested in, and subsequently which schools I have a shot of getting in to. I also think you're right about the essay component of the application, as I believe this may have been a weak spot in my own application. I will try to fix this area up as well in the case that I apply again.

Back to contacting IU, I failed to mention that I submitted an update to the university with regards to my fall semester grades (I actually did really awesome this semester and it boosted both of my GPAs!) as well as informing them about a research grant that I received from my university to provide more funding for my project. I did not send this to the director, but rather to the program administrator who told me to send those updates to her. So I'm not sure if I should e-mail the director again as well...The only other update I could potentially have is if an abstract I submitted to a conference is accepted for a poster presentation. If that happens before I hear back from IU, then I might e-mail the director directly informing him of my presentation as well as my continued (extreme!) interest in the university's MSTP program. Though I will probably have to think about if this is appropriate or not.

Thanks again @starfun21 , I hope you have a rewarding application cycle as well

 

[ashkicking]

Also, just looked up Tulane's program -- if I'm reading that right, they only ACCEPT (not even matriculate, but accept?? Maybe they mean matriculate here) 2 students per year?! https://tulanepsp.wordpress.com/frequently-asked-questions/. Yikes, lol. It sounds like they're interviewing 30 students to accept maybe 5 or so at most... gahhhh! Your chances are IU might be higher based on this fact alone, but Tulane also really says only research is most important, plus they say most people will start hearing back post-interview in February so it's just a little longer to wait. I know you would be a great asset to either school, so hopefully they see your awesomeness!

This does bring up the final thing that I could possibly think of as I sat here and racked my brain lol -- along with the competitiveness and research interests of the program, be sure to look at the size of the program and how many applicants they receive/interview/matriculate, if available. This may not be an app killer, but it's always something great to keep in mind! If all of your schools are very, very small programs (and then the others are just super competitive, etc?), that could be contributing to why it's so hard to nab a spot? Again, I don't think this is a huge deal, but I'm trying to think of everything I can here and things you could possibly keep in mind if needing another cycle... but I'm pulling for you for this cycle!! There's still time!

Haha, sorry I just saw this; 2 people matriculate into the program; Not sure how many they accept though! I know they have informed some applicants with regards to acceptances, but are waiting to see if these offers are accepted by the applicants...The waiting game

Your point is very valid, and I should have made a better effort to look at how many applicants the schools I submitted to end up accepting.

 

[starfun21]

Don't worry @starfun21 , your advice is extremely helpful, not at all rambling!

Thanks for letting me know about IU's admission status notification patterns, I had no clue that they had already sent out some post-interview rejections so it's good to know that we are still under consideration!

In the case that I have to apply again, I will definitely have to adjust my school list; I honestly think I reached too high aside from, coincidentally, the programs I am waiting to hear from! So I will definitely look up which schools are better geared towards fields I'm interested in, and subsequently which schools I have a shot of getting in to. I also think you're right about the essay component of the application, as I believe this may have been a weak spot in my own application. I will try to fix this area up as well in the case that I apply again.

Back to contacting IU, I failed to mention that I submitted an update to the university with regards to my fall semester grades (I actually did really awesome this semester and it boosted both of my GPAs!) as well as informing them about a research grant that I received from my university to provide more funding for my project. I did not send this to the director, but rather to the program administrator who told me to send those updates to her. So I'm not sure if I should e-mail the director again as well...The only other update I could potentially have is if an abstract I submitted to a conference is accepted for a poster presentation. If that happens before I hear back from IU, then I might e-mail the director directly informing him of my presentation as well as my continued (extreme!) interest in the university's MSTP program. Though I will probably have to think about if this is appropriate or not.

Thanks again @starfun21 , I hope you have a rewarding application cycle as well

Sounds wonderful! I think you have a great handle on what to do in the near or far future. Congrats on the good grades! I also think you've very adequately expressed your interest in IU, so that sounds great. I really hope things work out for you, and sooner rather than later!!!

Thank you again for your kind words toward me as well!

 

[daolso]

Don't worry @starfun21 , your advice is extremely helpful, not at all rambling!

Thanks for letting me know about IU's admission status notification patterns, I had no clue that they had already sent out some post-interview rejections so it's good to know that we are still under consideration!

In the case that I have to apply again, I will definitely have to adjust my school list; I honestly think I reached too high aside from, coincidentally, the programs I am waiting to hear from! So I will definitely look up which schools are better geared towards fields I'm interested in, and subsequently which schools I have a shot of getting in to. I also think you're right about the essay component of the application, as I believe this may have been a weak spot in my own application. I will try to fix this area up as well in the case that I apply again.

Back to contacting IU, I failed to mention that I submitted an update to the university with regards to my fall semester grades (I actually did really awesome this semester and it boosted both of my GPAs!) as well as informing them about a research grant that I received from my university to provide more funding for my project. I did not send this to the director, but rather to the program administrator who told me to send those updates to her. So I'm not sure if I should e-mail the director again as well...The only other update I could potentially have is if an abstract I submitted to a conference is accepted for a poster presentation. If that happens before I hear back from IU, then I might e-mail the director directly informing him of my presentation as well as my continued (extreme!) interest in the university's MSTP program. Though I will probably have to think about if this is appropriate or not.

Thanks again @starfun21 , I hope you have a rewarding application cycle as well

Good luck! If you do make it in or have any questions about the program, feel free to message. I am a current MS2, really enjoyed my first two years at Indiana and Purdue.