Hey i need some help. Ive always wanted to become a surgeon but ive always wanted to join the navy, specifically the SEALs. Is it possible to become a SEAL and at the same time complete Med school and residency while enlisted? I ask this cause both jobs (SEAL/Surgeon) obvisouly take up alot of years of your life and doing one after the other would seem to be nearly impossible. I am about to graduate HS and attending community college for about 2 years this fall. Help? Suggestions? Thanks!
Help?
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I'll answer this seriously
Both of these training pathways requires you to work 'full time' in a way you have probably never experienced. Becoming surgeon is a minimum of a 13 year training pathway (4 years college, 4 years medical school, 5 years residency) and the average applicant actually takes a full 7 years to get into medical school after high school (16 year pathway). The average successful applicant to medical school has a 3.6 GPA at a mid or high tier 4 year college and a 31 on the MCAT (think 1200-1400 on the 1600 point SAT) and very few applicants are accepted with much less than that. You should expect to work 40-80 hours a week during college and the first 2 years of medical school, then 60-100 (between work and studying) during the second 2 years of medical school , and finally 70-100 hours a week through all of a surgery residency. If you have ever had a job where you worked a 12 hour shift,just imagine doing 6 of those every week and sometimes not getting a day off.
SEAL training I know only by report, but from everything I know it is similarly intense but even more frontloaded. The training takes over 2 years before you even reach your team, and is essentially an every waking hour job from the day you begin training. Then you get to your team and start working at a job with similar hours to residency (or so I'm told). A relentless and unreliable training and deployment schedule will preclude anything else you want to do.
There is a slim chance that, if you are at the right command and have an understanding LPO, you might be able to complete a significant number of college credits while enlisted in one of the easier ratings, but the chance of having a command that concerned about your education is vanishingly small even for, say, an average medical corpsman attached to a hospital (50 hour/week job) and is 100% impossible while attached to a more demanding command like special warfare. No you can't be a SEAL and a surgeon at the same time.
You can do medical school after special warfare and bizarrely I personally know not one, but three people who did that. You can't do the SEALs after medical school, you would be too old to begin the training.
Finally I think you know that achieving either of these goals is unlikely for anyone. Most college students want to go to medical school at some point and less than 1% will. There are more former NFL players than former SEALs and of the people who enlist with the expressed goal of becoming a seal I have been told that less than 5% will achieve their goal. Cultivate viable backup plans.
If you have other questions about premedicine, enlisting, or whatever feel free to ask. Remember that recruiters will promise you anything and everything to get you to sign a contract and if a promise is not in writing it is a lie. Good luck, whether you choose to continue with college, to enlist, or neither.
Both of these training pathways requires you to work 'full time' in a way you have probably never experienced. Becoming surgeon is a minimum of a 13 year training pathway (4 years college, 4 years medical school, 5 years residency) and the average applicant actually takes a full 7 years to get into medical school after high school (16 year pathway). The average successful applicant to medical school has a 3.6 GPA at a mid or high tier 4 year college and a 31 on the MCAT (think 1200-1400 on the 1600 point SAT) and very few applicants are accepted with much less than that. You should expect to work 40-80 hours a week during college and the first 2 years of medical school, then 60-100 (between work and studying) during the second 2 years of medical school , and finally 70-100 hours a week through all of a surgery residency. If you have ever had a job where you worked a 12 hour shift,just imagine doing 6 of those every week and sometimes not getting a day off.
SEAL training I know only by report, but from everything I know it is similarly intense but even more frontloaded. The training takes over 2 years before you even reach your team, and is essentially an every waking hour job from the day you begin training. Then you get to your team and start working at a job with similar hours to residency (or so I'm told). A relentless and unreliable training and deployment schedule will preclude anything else you want to do.
There is a slim chance that, if you are at the right command and have an understanding LPO, you might be able to complete a significant number of college credits while enlisted in one of the easier ratings, but the chance of having a command that concerned about your education is vanishingly small even for, say, an average medical corpsman attached to a hospital (50 hour/week job) and is 100% impossible while attached to a more demanding command like special warfare. No you can't be a SEAL and a surgeon at the same time.
You can do medical school after special warfare and bizarrely I personally know not one, but three people who did that. You can't do the SEALs after medical school, you would be too old to begin the training.
Finally I think you know that achieving either of these goals is unlikely for anyone. Most college students want to go to medical school at some point and less than 1% will. There are more former NFL players than former SEALs and of the people who enlist with the expressed goal of becoming a seal I have been told that less than 5% will achieve their goal. Cultivate viable backup plans.
If you have other questions about premedicine, enlisting, or whatever feel free to ask. Remember that recruiters will promise you anything and everything to get you to sign a contract and if a promise is not in writing it is a lie. Good luck, whether you choose to continue with college, to enlist, or neither.
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I'll bite.
Agree with all the above. I've known several ex-SEAL physician assistants and physicians, but none of them were directly involved in missions after completing their medical training. All of them completed their medical coursework after leaving the Special Warfare community. Some non-SEAL physicians may work with SEALs in a training role from a tactical combat casualty care perspective, but don't deploy as part of a SEAL team. The same goes for Undersea Medical Officers, who do not deploy on submarines or work directly with Special Warfare Operators in the way you are describing (i.e. on a team), despite what recruiters and the Navy Medicine Graduate Medical Education Facebook page may say.
Thus, while it is *possible* to have a medical career after being a special warfare operator, you absolutely will not be able to be both at the same time.
Honestly, I recommend focusing on one in which to become a professional; if you go into either planning to be the other at some point in time, you will be doing your fellow service members a disservice while in combat or in the hospital.
Agree with all the above. I've known several ex-SEAL physician assistants and physicians, but none of them were directly involved in missions after completing their medical training. All of them completed their medical coursework after leaving the Special Warfare community. Some non-SEAL physicians may work with SEALs in a training role from a tactical combat casualty care perspective, but don't deploy as part of a SEAL team. The same goes for Undersea Medical Officers, who do not deploy on submarines or work directly with Special Warfare Operators in the way you are describing (i.e. on a team), despite what recruiters and the Navy Medicine Graduate Medical Education Facebook page may say.
Thus, while it is *possible* to have a medical career after being a special warfare operator, you absolutely will not be able to be both at the same time.
Honestly, I recommend focusing on one in which to become a professional; if you go into either planning to be the other at some point in time, you will be doing your fellow service members a disservice while in combat or in the hospital.
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Thanks for responding guys really aprreciate it! And i know it'l be impossible to do med school then SEALS cause the cutoff age is 28 for SEALS but would it be possible to do SEALS then after service, study to be a surgeon? If so what would be the process? And i know both of these are unlikely but this would be if everything worked out perfictly and just kind of wondering. Thanks!
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Perrotfish had a great answer, as usual.
Of course it's possible to be a SEAL then a doctor, as noted previously. I had an ex-SEAL in my med school class. Ex-SF types tend to be smart, disciplined, driven people ... they commonly get out and go on to successful second careers, be it medicine or business or any of 63 other fields.
Here's the process: Join the Navy. Become a SEAL. Finish up that tour, get an undergrad degree at some point, go to medical school, become a surgeon. It'll take you 20 years, or more.
Most people on these forums will tell you that if you want to be a doctor, cut to the chase and just be a doctor. 99% of the people who became doctors as a SECOND career weren't planning on being doctors from the beginning. They started their first job/career and later decided they wanted to be doctors, and then changed careers.
Generally speaking, for people who want to be doctors, enlisting in the military after high school is the wrong path to take. It will greatly delay the entrance into med school and it's nigh impossible for mere mortals to complete the prereqs at a quality school while enlisted.
We have this thread every few months.
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There are two SEALs in my current USUHS class and a few former Army SF types. One of the SEALs when to the Naval Academy, became a SEAL and then after 12 years in the Navy he was accepted at USUHS. He was able to take some prerequisite courses on a short duty staff gig where he wasn't out running and gunning. The second SEAL went to college and applied for OCS, but there just aren't many officer spots for SEALs. He wanted to be one bad enough that he enlisted as a SEAL and was a medic and later trained as a sniper as well. He got out after about 8 years, but remained in the reserves while taking prerequisites and then was accepted at medical school.
I did 11 years active duty as fighter pilot and a couple in the reserves taking prerequisites before being accepted to USUHS. We also have have some former tank commanders, engineers, etc. Like pgg said, none of was wanted to be physicians back when we were younger. A few might have been interested in it, but they wanted to be a SEAL, drive tanks, fly planes, etc MORE than being a physician. But those gigs tend to have a shelf life for the really cool parts so we then made the transition. So it can work, but not at the same time like you asked. And it really doesn't work to be a physician first. So you can do it if you really want to, but it is going to be a long path.
I did 11 years active duty as fighter pilot and a couple in the reserves taking prerequisites before being accepted to USUHS. We also have have some former tank commanders, engineers, etc. Like pgg said, none of was wanted to be physicians back when we were younger. A few might have been interested in it, but they wanted to be a SEAL, drive tanks, fly planes, etc MORE than being a physician. But those gigs tend to have a shelf life for the really cool parts so we then made the transition. So it can work, but not at the same time like you asked. And it really doesn't work to be a physician first. So you can do it if you really want to, but it is going to be a long path.
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Perrotfish's answer was great. Read it, live it, love it.
If you want any hope of becoming a SEAL and a surgeon, it will have to be in that order: SEAL, then surgeon. The Navy is unlikely to invest the hundreds of thousands of dollars and years of training to make you a surgeon, just to have you turn around and start another career path that puts you at high risk of being seriously injured.
That said, they probably wouldn't be keen on spending all the dough on training you for a highly coveted special warfare job just to see you ditch it to go to med school. Whether the Navy pays to train you as a surgeon or a SEAL, they're going to want a payout on that investment.
If you want any hope of becoming a SEAL and a surgeon, it will have to be in that order: SEAL, then surgeon. The Navy is unlikely to invest the hundreds of thousands of dollars and years of training to make you a surgeon, just to have you turn around and start another career path that puts you at high risk of being seriously injured.
That said, they probably wouldn't be keen on spending all the dough on training you for a highly coveted special warfare job just to see you ditch it to go to med school. Whether the Navy pays to train you as a surgeon or a SEAL, they're going to want a payout on that investment.
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I used to agree but these days I just don't know how military works. For example Army sends highly trained medical subspecialists to work as Brigade surgeon or other non-medical operational tours for few years after their long training and send complicated patients out to civilian sector.
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I'm not saying they'll give you great assignments in your specialty. I'm just saying they want to task you in a physician role to get some payoff rather than immediately letting you go off for JSOC-type stuff.
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that's a bit of a leap. overqualified for brigade surgeon does not even approach qualifications for special operations as a trigger puller, lol. i feel your pain, but the day they send a subspecialist against their will to a JSOC unit as an infantryman i will eat my crusty wool beret. i would even consider beret eating for a simple forced JSOC brigade surgeon tasking. those slots are coveted by the people who yearn to be our bosses, and will never be forced on anyone for the simple reason JSOC doesn't want you if you don't want them. that may work for the commoners in the lines but the JSOC royalty don't play that game.
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It would be more fun if people couldn't retract their drunk posts.
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I would prefer not to do so anyway.
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This might sound weird, but here goes.
My dad had a long career in the Navy. He spent thirty years. He was a SEAL for an undisclosed period of time.
I have been thinking about things. I'm have one more year of college left. Perchance I don't get into med school, should I go to OCS and then to sunny Coronado?
Again, I'm just thinking about hypothetical situations. I just want to make him proud.
My dad had a long career in the Navy. He spent thirty years. He was a SEAL for an undisclosed period of time.
I have been thinking about things. I'm have one more year of college left. Perchance I don't get into med school, should I go to OCS and then to sunny Coronado?
Again, I'm just thinking about hypothetical situations. I just want to make him proud.
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In my opinion you shouldn't go into one of the most dangerous and grueling professions on the planet just to make papa proud. But that's just me.
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I thought the officer billets in nav spec ops were full. One guy I know that had an "in" (grandfather was a flag officer) finished college (military school, at that), and enlisted in the Navy, expressly to go to BUD/S. He was enlisted for 4 years, then became a mustang.
If you enlist, I would guess (as I do not have any actual info) that you would have a better shot at it.
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Ever since I was a kid I've thought about it, sort of like some on here who have always known that they've wanted to be a doctor because of their parents or whatever. And he spent thirty years in the Navy before retiring, so indeed it may be different now.
My GPA isn't good and I haven't taken the MCAT yet. Again, just hypothetical situations.
My GPA isn't good and I haven't taken the MCAT yet. Again, just hypothetical situations.
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When you go to the recruiting station ask for mos 99 Zulu. This will set you upon the path you seek.
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Becoming an officer of any kind is hard these days. We're closing in on peacetime and 13 years of war has left officers well paid and extraordinarily well respected in an economy with an ever shrinking number of white collar jobs. Its even harder to join if you're trying to go through OCS: the military is downsizing and has enough trouble figuring out to do with all of the new officers they're already committed to taking through the ROTC and Academy Pathways. The OCS class is the elastic part of the equation, and right now they don't really need to stretch. Also even when they desperately needed officers, the process of getting selected and then going through all the basic classes could take over a year before you even started training for your actual job. I'm not saying that you can't do it, or for that matter that you can't become a doctor, but if your GPA is terrible you might need to work on your credentials if you want to be a line officer, just like if you wanted to be a doctor.
A few questions that might help us to help you:
1) What is your numerical GPA? What about your BCPM GPA?
2) What college (or tier of college, if you're shy) do you attend and what are you majoring in?
3) Have you finished the premedical coursework?
4) When do you plan to take the MCAT?
5) Do you currently have any connection to the military? Are you in ROTC/reserves, or have you enlisted before?
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