Here We Go Again. Woman tape records surgeon in OR via her hair weave....

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Twiggidy

Twiggidy

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Yes......her weave. This is not an Onion story....

(for those who aren't up on other cultures, weave is the hair extension that many woman, mostly black, put in their hair in braid form)

http://www.fox26houston.com/news/112860446-story


People are getting creative, especially the disgruntled ones. Watch what you're saying in the OR
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We knew there would be copy cat cases after the GI incident with anesthesia and GI docs talking bad about that lawyer GI patient.
 
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Y'all might wanna check if your state is a "two-party consent" or a "one-party consent" state for audio recordings.

Here in CA, this type of recording is illegal. In Texas, legal.

The general principle that you should only say things about the patient that you would also say to the patient seems to apply here.

That said, aside from obviously inappropriate comments or insults about appearance, medical condition, or body habitus, I don't see why an operative team griping about the patient's behavior would be worthy of attention and doesn't seem like it would get very far in court for "psychological distress." But, I'm an anesthesiologist, WTFDIK.
 
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"In a letter sent to Easter Harris Health System states we have used this opportunity to remind the OR staff and physicians to be mindful of their comments at all times."

Wtf is with this big brother state we have going on now?
 
As unPC as this sounds, physicians should establish a patient review database for people like this. Like a credit history. Dealing with hard-to-please patients is responsible for a good percentage of physician burnout.

People are not perfect. All doctors are people. Hence doctors are not perfect, and should not be expected to be. It's absolutely ridiculous what hospitals, specialty boards and state medical boards pretend nowadays under the disguise of "professionalism". They should just call it PR.
 
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fakin' the funk said:
Y'all might wanna check if your state is a "two-party consent" or a "one-party consent" state for audio recordings.

Here in CA, this type of recording is illegal. In Texas, legal.
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Not only illegal, as in "not admissible in court", but a crime in most two-party states.
 
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Medical students note how you are viewed: it's "doctors, anesthesiologists, and nurses" not "doctors and nurses" since anesthesiologists aren't doctors, right?
 
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FFP said:
Not only illegal, as in "not admissible in court", but a crime in most one-party states.
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While it probably isn't legal, all that means is that the patient committed a crime that almost certainly won't be prosecuted. It doesn't necessarily mean that the tape is inadmissible for a civil suit or state medical board proceeding or internal hospital disciplinary matter.
 
dr doze said:
While it probably isn't legal, all that means is that the patient committed a crime that almost certainly won't be prosecuted. It doesn't necessarily mean that the tape is inadmissible for a civil suit or state medical board proceeding or internal hospital disciplinary matter.
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I would bet that it would be prosecuted in most two-party states. The end does not justify the means. The person might not get convicted, but you can't have people going around recording private conversations in a two-party state. If law enforcement would need a warrant for it, so does the regular citizen.

And it's inadmissible for any legal purpose, so civil suit is out. Even the state medical board could be liable if finding against a physician based on illegal proof (they would be condoning a crime).

P.S. Edited one-party to two-party. My mistake.
 
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Nothing they said was terribly disparaging. She was snoring? So it was a MAC or a regional?
So a patient gets to act like a complete jerk, but if someone points out to others that she treated them unpleasantly, suddenly that is newsworthy? Calling someone "Precious" or the queen, is not really very bad at all. She is the one who implies that "precious" means "fat black woman." That is not my interpretation of what that name means. It sounds like they showed great restraint. It sounds like she did not.
 
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FFP said:
I would bet that it would be prosecuted in most one-party states. And it's inadmissible for any legal purpose, so civil suit is out. Even the state medical board could be liable if finding against a physician based on illegal proof.
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As I recall the case in virginia the tape was admissible in the civil suit against the anesthesiologist and there was a verdict in favor of the plaintiff.
No prosecution either. Remember, if the patients are unconscious, they are not parties to the conversation and should be able to be prosecuted whether or not they are in a one or a two party state.

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2015/06...-colonoscopy-it-cost-this-doctor-her-job.html
 
Gern Blansten said:
Nothing they said was terribly disparaging. She was snoring? So it was a MAC or a regional?
So a patient gets to act like a complete jerk, but if someone points out to others that she treated them unpleasantly, suddenly that is newsworthy? Calling someone "Precious" or the queen, is not really very bad at all. She is the one who implies that "precious" means "fat black woman." That is not my interpretation of what that name means. It sounds like they showed great restraint. It sounds like she did not.
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That's what Precious means to me, too (fat black woman), so I understand where she is coming from.

But look at her photo. She probably has a BMI of more than 30 (I would guess 40-ish). A woman's face typically looks as overweight as a men's with 10 points less in BMI. (Gynoid vs android weight distribution patterns.) So why is she upset for being called fat? It's not nice, but it's definitely not (real) newspaper-worthy. Especially since it seems she didn't behave like a saint herself.

It was probably a hernia repair under field block and propofol.
 
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dr doze said:
As I recall the case in virginia the tape was admissible in the civil suit against the anesthesiologist and there was a verdict in favor of the plaintiff.
No prosecution either. Remember, if the patients are unconscious, they are not parties to the conversation and should be able to be prosecuted whether or not they are in a one or a two party state.

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2015/06...-colonoscopy-it-cost-this-doctor-her-job.html
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Virginia is a one-party state. Like Texas here. It's not illegal in a one-party state.
Wikipedia said:
States that currently require that all parties consent to the recording include: California,[20] Connecticut,[21] Florida,[22] Hawaii (in general a one-party state, but requires two-party consent if the recording device is installed in a private place),[21] Illinois (debated, see next section), Maryland,[23] Massachusetts[21] (only "secret" recordings are banned[24]), Montana (requires notification only),[25] Nevada,[26] New Hampshire,[27] Pennsylvania,[28] and Washington (however, section 3 of the Washington law states that permission is given if any of the parties announces that they will be recording the call in a reasonable manner if the recording contains that announcement).[29]
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In my previous posts, I meant two-party (more correctly, all-party). My mistake, sorry.
 
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I understand what people are saying about whether the tape is admissible or not, but I think we should realize how much the public generally sympathizes with patients, especially vulnerable ones such as being under anesthesia. It's never a good look to have a room full of people, especially physicians, in a room poking fun at a patient. When that stuff gets out people start to feel sorry for the "poor patient" and hate "those rich doctors" and decide to hit them where it hurts.....their wallets.
 
dr doze said:
how can an unconscious person be a party to a conversation?
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That's a very smart question.

Basically you are arguing that since they know she is there and she could hear them, they cannot have any expectations of privacy against her. Very good. I think being visibly present makes her automatically a party in the conversation, even if she doesn't speak. Anything she hears cannot be considered eavesdropping.

Still she is not allowed to record the conversation in an all-party state. ;)
 
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No. I am arguing that an unconscious person is not and cannot be a party to a conversation and therefore has no legal ability to record in a one party state.
 
Sounds like she got perturbed that, heaven forbid, she had to wait a couple weeks for an elective surgery, and really wanted to "get back" at the surgeon. Unfortunately, they didn't really say anything too terrible but now she's forcing the issue anyway because she already went to all that trouble.
 
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dr doze said:
No. I am arguing that an unconscious person is not and cannot be a party to a conversation and therefore has no legal ability to record in a one party state.
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But I think that's the case with the GI suite situation. I think if you're awake and push record and then proceed to go to sleep, the simple action of pushing record is one person's consent....IF you're in a one party state. That's my thought
 
dr doze said:
No. I am arguing that an unconscious person is not and cannot be a party to a conversation and therefore has no legal ability to record in a one party state.
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I think they do. Being party to a conversation = being privy to it. It's about the expectations of privacy of those who are speaking. You cannot have an expectation of privacy if you speak to somebody else while next to me, even if I am just a bystander, and I am allowed to record/share the conversation even without your permission, in a one-party state.

If you know I am there, you cannot have an expectation of privacy towards me. You have basically included me in the conversation, willy-nilly.
 
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FFP said:
I think they do. Being party to a conversation = being privy to it. It's about the expectations of privacy of those who are speaking. You cannot have an expectation of privacy if you speak to somebody else while standing next to me, even if I am just a bystander, and I am allowed to record/share the conversation even without your permission, in a one-party state.
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right. the "one party" doesn't have to be "in" the conversation. they are the one party that consents by pushing record.
 
Twiggidy said:
right. the "one party" doesn't have to be "in" the conversation. they are the one party that consents by pushing record.
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It really varies based on state. In 38 states, one-party consent is required, and that degree of consent varies from state to state. In some, it requires you to be present in the room. In others, it requires you to be a participant in the conversation. Thankfully, this woman would've done time where I'm from.
 
Oh sweet Jesus, just act like a normal human being in public! Is it so hard for the.....wait we are in anesthesia forget it. Most of you are screwed.
 
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Unless you are a neurosurgeon, then you have even fewer social skills.
 
Pretty benign and sounds like she deserves much worse. But how are we going to trust patients if they're going to be trying to get us like this all the time
 
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Psai said:
Pretty benign and sounds like she deserves much worse. But how are we going to trust patients if they're going to be trying to get us like this all the time
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You still trust patients? Oh, those years... The first kiss, the first patient who complains about you... :)
 
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Maybe it's just me, but I'm not terribly upset that a community activist (WTH is that anyway) named Quanell X doesn't know that an anesthesiologist is a doctor.
Going to go out on a limb here and guess there are many things this individual isn't aware or knowledgeable of.
 
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Psai said:
Pretty benign and sounds like she deserves much worse. But how are we going to trust patients if they're going to be trying to get us like this all the time
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You trust patients?
Hell, I have a hard time trusting people in general.
 
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Man o War said:
Maybe it's just me, but I'm not terribly upset that a community activist (WTH is that anyway) named Quanell X doesn't know that an anesthesiologist is a doctor.
Going to go out on a limb here and guess there are many things this individual isn't aware or knowledgeable of.
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Look what I found:

Doctor4Life1769 said:
You trust patients?
Hell, I have a hard time trusting people in general.
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Lucky you. (I mean it.)
 
It's funny how people act so surprised to hear docs/nurses talking like this. We are people, too... We talk **** just like you... We do this all day everyday, we get bored, we have to pass the time...

Place a recorder in a restaurant kitchen, you will hear chefs joke about tampering with food. Place a recorder in a cop car, you will hear cops joking about shooting people. Place a recorder in a church, you will hear priests joke about raping boys. Place a recorder in a neurology clinic, you will hear the neurologist joke about beating up an Uber driver.
 
AvrgPreMedKid said:
It's funny how people act so surprised to hear docs/nurses talking like this. We are people, too... We talk **** just like you... We do this all day everyday, we get bored, we have to pass the time...

Place a recorder in a restaurant kitchen, you will hear chefs joke about tampering with food. Place a recorder in a cop car, you will hear cops joking about shooting people. Place a recorder in a church, you will hear priests joke about raping boys. Place a recorder in a neurology clinic, you will hear the neurologist joke about beating up an Uber driver.
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In certain churches, they ain't joking ;)
 
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FFP said:
You still trust patients? Oh, those years... The first kiss, the first patient who complains about you... :)
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Bra I had my first kiss almost 14 years ago

I did have a patient complain about me last year though so that's pretty new
 
AvrgPreMedKid said:
It's funny how people act so surprised to hear docs/nurses talking like this. We are people, too... We talk **** just like you... We do this all day everyday, we get bored, we have to pass the time...

Place a recorder in a restaurant kitchen, you will hear chefs joke about tampering with food. Place a recorder in a cop car, you will hear cops joking about shooting people. Place a recorder in a church, you will hear priests joke about raping boys. Place a recorder in a neurology clinic, you will hear the neurologist joke about beating up an Uber driver.
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No you won't. Stop being so dramatic.
 
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AvrgPreMedKid said:
It's funny how people act so surprised to hear docs/nurses talking like this. We are people, too... We talk **** just like you... We do this all day everyday, we get bored, we have to pass the time...

Place a recorder in a restaurant kitchen, you will hear chefs joke about tampering with food. Place a recorder in a cop car, you will hear cops joking about shooting people. Place a recorder in a church, you will hear priests joke about raping boys. Place a recorder in a neurology clinic, you will hear the neurologist joke about beating up an Uber driver.
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1. they may not be joking
2. they're probably saying worse....ask Mark Furhman, the SFPD, etc
 
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What bothered her the most was that the doctors gave her ancef despite a childhood penicillin allergy causing a rash?:rolleyes:

They even did a test dose on her. How dare they!
 
FFP said:
Now in the national press: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...n-her-their-words-left-her-deeply-distressed/ .
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At least it was the surgeon who referred to her as "precious", not the anesthesiologist

Reading the comments section of that article actually restores some of my faith in humanity. There are still people with common sense left in the world!

She received the appropriate health care. She is looking for her 15 mins of fame. Next.
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Some of the doctors' comments were distasteful, but people joke about all kinds of things to relieve stress. From their perspective, she was a pain in the butt, threatening to sue already. You don't have to like your doctor or he/she you--so long as they do a good job. No harm done here.
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I will say this whole thing is shady. The doctors were wrong to behave the way they did. Ms. Easter's behavior was just bizarre, and makes me think she was looking to gather evidence for a potential lawsuit. If I'm uncomfortable with my surgeon, I find another surgeon. I don't hide a recording device in my hair and hope for the best. I mean, she lives in Houston. It's not like this guy was the only game in town.
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FFP said:
Now in the national press: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/04/07/patient-hid-recorder-in-her-hair-as-surgeons-operated-
FFP said:
Now in the national press: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/04/07/patient-hid-recorder-in-her-hair-as-surgeons-operated-on-her-their-words-left-her-deeply-distressed/ .
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on-her-their-words-left-her-deeply-distressed/ .
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Honestly, that was just pure dumb of the anesthesiologist to even get involved in the surgeon's bad behavior. He should have nipped it in the bud instead of encouraging it.

I woudn't given Ancef if someone told me they had a reaction with PCN suggestive of anaphylaxis.

I'm unsure if the state is a consent state or not. 100 abdominal pain episodes in 24hrs. Ha, right. Bruising/blood in the belly, give me a break.
 
amLOLdipine said:
At least it was the surgeon who referred to her as "precious", not the anesthesiologist

Reading the comments section of that article actually restores some of my faith in humanity. There are still people with common sense left in the world!
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It's only going to dwindle even more in the coming decades..
 
You know something is wrong when your side of the story makes you sound like a whiny, entitled person. Why is this getting any media attention?

Real story: entitled fat black woman makes a lot of insinuations about surgeon's attitude and no one cares
 
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Talking about someone who is under anesthesia is the same as talking about someone who is not present!
So, imagine if we get to sue everyone who says bad things about us in our absence! Wouldn't that be nice?
 
Planktonmd said:
Talking about someone who is under anesthesia is the same as talking about someone who is not present!
So, imagine if we get to sue everyone who says bad things about us in our absence! Wouldn't that be nice?
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This is because our flawed justice system gave that dude $500,000 when his anesthesiologist badmouthed him under anesthesia.

The leeches have caught on and see this as a new get rich scheme. Beware of what you say.
 
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