Hi..I have a few questions about DO schools

[kenstyle]

I did a search and I really haven't found any direct answers to my questions, so here goes:

1) Is the workload/amount of studying typically the same amount as any other MD allopathic schools? Or is it actually less, generally speaking? (this question by no means serves to fuel a spark between a DO/MD debate)

2) DO schools comprise of 4 years of education followed by another 4-6 years of residency just like allopathic schools, correct?

3) Ok this one is going to be a bit subjective and lengthy, so please bear with me:

I've recently graduated with a 2.915 (overall) GPA in Microbiology at UCLA and I've just completed and sent in my applications to 4 optometry schools (O.D.), as my OAT scores were more than adequate. I've even been invited for an interview in February. However, ophthamalogy is what I truly wish to pursue, but as you can see, my grades haven't been the most competitive aspect of me. I am currently involved in research concerning GBM (glioblastoma multiforme) human brain cancer stem cells at UCLA's cancer research center and have had a lot of experience in post-doctoral work. I've even been directly responsible for training our recently hired post-doc from China. We're going to be working with SCID mice soon and I'm excited more than ever.

Anyway, what I truly wish to pursue is acceptance into medical school, but I really don't know if my application will be competitive enough. I've never taken the MCAT (I'm still thinking of taking it), but I do not wish to neglect the 4 O.D. schools I've already applied to just to take a risk. Completing those applications was hell, particularly asking my professors to write my letters of rec (I absolutely hate asking people to do favors for me), and I do not wish to repeat this process again simply for the hell of it.

So, current osteopathic or allopathic students/applicants/graduates, what do you think of my chances of getting into medical school? (I understand this question of all varieties has been asked before, but all of the links in the *FAQ* thread led to a blank page as all the URLs were copied+pasted incorrectly)

I finished my undergrad at a decent school with a difficult major, had very good laboratory/research experience, volunteered for many hours in a hospital, observed an O.D.'s practice for more than 30 hours, been involved in a fraternity and a community service project, should I take a risk?

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[medhacker]

Hiya kenstyle

Why don't you take a sample/diagnostic MCAT and return to us with your score, your GPA is kind of low, perhaps someone more in the know can say if you have a chance whatsoever with your GPA. If yes I would say see how you do with the MCAT. If you do quite well, I would consider med-school further since that is what you have your heart on. Best wishes.

I did a search and I really haven't found any direct answers to my questions, so here goes:

1) Is the workload/amount of studying typically the same amount as any other MD allopathic schools? Or is it actually less, generally speaking? (this question by no means serves to fuel a spark between a DO/MD debate)

2) DO schools comprise of 4 years of education followed by another 4-6 years of residency just like allopathic schools, correct?

3) Ok this one is going to be a bit subjective and lengthy, so please bear with me:

I've recently graduated with a 2.915 (overall) GPA in Microbiology at UCLA and I've just completed and sent in my applications to 4 optometry schools (O.D.), as my OAT scores were more than adequate. I've even been invited for an interview in February. However, ophthamalogy is what I truly wish to pursue, but as you can see, my grades haven't been the most competitive aspect of me. I am currently involved in research concerning GBM (glioblastoma multiforme) human brain cancer stem cells at UCLA's cancer research center and have had a lot of experience in post-doctoral work. I've even been directly responsible for training our recently hired post-doc from China. We're going to be working with SCID mice soon and I'm excited more than ever.

Anyway, what I truly wish to pursue is acceptance into medical school, but I really don't know if my application will be competitive enough. I've never taken the MCAT (I'm still thinking of taking it), but I do not wish to neglect the 4 O.D. schools I've already applied to just to take a risk. Completing those applications was hell, particularly asking my professors to write my letters of rec (I absolutely hate asking people to do favors for me), and I do not wish to repeat this process again simply for the hell of it.

So, current osteopathic or allopathic students/applicants/graduates, what do you think of my chances of getting into medical school? (I understand this question of all varieties has been asked before, but all of the links in the *FAQ* thread led to a blank page as all the URLs were copied+pasted incorrectly)

I finished my undergrad at a decent school with a difficult major, had very good laboratory/research experience, volunteered for many hours in a hospital, observed an O.D.'s practice for more than 30 hours, been involved in a fraternity and a community service project, should I take a risk?

 

[MikeyLu2010]

Your timing is off...The soonest you can apply to med school is during the summer..which would have wasted your optometry school application cycle..unless you choose to apply when your in optometry school...If you stick with med..i would retake classes you got a F,D,C to boost your gpa...(AACOMAS) replaces the older grade with newer grade (DO school app) while the AMCAS (MD app) doesnt do this...

MCATS are given twice a year..april and Aug..And i hear they are going to change the format it soon..you might want to browse the MCAT discussion forum..

Good luck..

 

[Taus]

do both.... how awesome would it be to have D.O.O.D. after your name?

on a serious note...you may be able to be granted a deferred acceptance from the optometry schools and have your spot held for a year while you try to apply to medical school...you would have to contact each O.D. school to find out their policies on that though.

regarding DO schools and admissions....the answers to the 1st few q's are more (we have OMM classes on top of the full allopathic medical curriculum)..other then that...same thing....

Your GPA is really on the low side and in my opinion you would need either a great MCAT score (ie above 30) to be considered and/or a post-bacc to boost up your gpa

good luck

 

[daveyjwin]

FWIW, I got in with a 2.85 GPA and a 29N MCAT. So, it can be done. My MDApplicants page with more info about my ECs and stuff is here:

http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=3860

 

[DrBowtie]

Ophthamalogy is a very competitive specialty to get into. If you do decide to switch to med, do so at full speed if you are shooting for it.

 

[letsrun4it]

If you want to work with eyes I'd go to optometry school as there is absolutely no promise that if you get a DO degree you can get yourself a specific residency that competitive. Then you'll be stuck deliverying babies or something you really dont want to do and you'll have worked a lot more than doing optometry (not taking anything away from it-- im 4 eyed myself)

If you have interests in medicine beyond the eyes, by all means take the MCAT and get a 27+ and apply everywhere.

 

[Taus]

very good points just brought up.....obtaining a residency in optho will require you to be "the creme of the crop" of medical students.....if working with eyes is your only goal and you don't think there are other areas of medicine that you would be interested in......optometry may be the way to go for you...think long and hard about why you want to become a doctor 1st...and an opthomologist 2nd.....

 

[kenstyle]

To all of you, I appreciate the quick replies and insightful information.

Hiya kenstyle

Why don't you take a sample/diagnostic MCAT and return to us with your score, your GPA is kind of low, perhaps someone more in the know can say if you have a chance whatsoever with your GPA. If yes I would say see how you do with the MCAT. If you do quite well, I would consider med-school further since that is what you have your heart on. Best wishes.

Thanks for the advice. I'll see if I can take a diagnostic as the OAT and MCAT share similar content.

I'm guessing the only way to substantiate my application is to get a 35+ on the MCAT. I'm certain I can pull at least a 30, but reaching that 35 or greater would be difficult. I'll see what I can do.

Your timing is off...The soonest you can apply to med school is during the summer..which would have wasted your optometry school application cycle..unless you choose to apply when your in optometry school...If you stick with med..i would retake classes you got a F,D,C to boost your gpa...(AACOMAS) replaces the older grade with newer grade (DO school app) while the AMCAS (MD app) doesnt do this...

MCATS are given twice a year..april and Aug..And i hear they are going to change the format it soon..you might want to browse the MCAT discussion forum..

Good luck..

The majority of my pre-requisites comprises of A's and B's. I've calculated my pre-requisites GPA to be around the 3.2 range for my optometry applications. The majority of the C's and the one D came from upper division Microbiology/lab courses, but I never had the chance to make up for the D because the course was offered only once a year.

I do not intend to make up the C's because they are the bulk of my Microbio courses, and I never was a fan of the subject. I do admit I didn't try nearly as hard as I would've liked to, because when I finally did during my last quarter while studying for the most difficult Microbiology course offered (Immunology) and another Microbio lab, I was only able to pull a B and a B+, respectively. I don't intend to put in all that work again if I know I would probably only be able to obtain a B grade at the very best.

do both.... how awesome would it be to have D.O.O.D. after your name?

on a serious note...you may be able to be granted a deferred acceptance from the optometry schools and have your spot held for a year while you try to apply to medical school...you would have to contact each O.D. school to find out their policies on that though.

regarding DO schools and admissions....the answers to the 1st few q's are more (we have OMM classes on top of the full allopathic medical curriculum)..other then that...same thing....

Your GPA is really on the low side and in my opinion you would need either a great MCAT score (ie above 30) to be considered and/or a post-bacc to boost up your gpa

good luck

at the D.O.O.D.

I didn't know about the deferred acceptance option, thanks for enlightening me. It does seem rather "shady" though, don't you think? I wouldn't know how to fabricate the best excuse for them to still allow me to enroll the following year. Something along the lines of "Yeah, I wanted to see if I have a chance of getting into medical school first and have your school as a backup" wouldn't seem too appealing.

For right now, I think the best bet for me is to get a good score on the MCAT. Like I said before, I'm confident I can manage at least a 30, but I really think a 35+ is necessary nowadays to be competitive. And being that I am Chinese doesn't help one bit.

A post-bacc would be nice, but I don't think I'd want to throw away more money and years of my life just to know it's a "secondary" step to medical school. My boss at my research lab has already told me countless times that if I ever wanted to go get my master's of science of something she would recommend the hell outta me because I do damn good work for her and also because she knows people in those kind of schools. But my heart is set on the medical healthcare field and I prefer not to waste anymore of my time studying for something I won't need as a career and throwing my money away at the same time.

FWIW, I got in with a 2.85 GPA and a 29N MCAT. So, it can be done. My MDApplicants page with more info about my ECs and stuff is here:

http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=3860

Wow! Congratulations to you!

But that is seriously A LOT of schools you've applied to. I don't know if I have what it takes to apply to this many number of schools knowing that there is a good chance I won't even make it past the initial screening. But my hats are off to you man!

If my optometry schools allow a deferred acceptance, I will definitely follow your path. Filling out applications each time has been difficult for me because I get a nice friendly reminder of how ****ty I did in college when I have to fill out my grades. And having to beg people just to write you a letter of rec? I don't even want to think about it again.

Ophthamalogy is a very competitive specialty to get into. If you do decide to switch to med, do so at full speed if you are shooting for it.

I understand this about ophthamalogy, and this is yet another reason why I am hesitant about applying. I would be more than thrilled to just be a physican out of med school, however. I'd just like to have a reality check to see if I can have a chance of getting in with my current grades before I throw all of my time, money, and effort away.

If you want to work with eyes I'd go to optometry school as there is absolutely no promise that if you get a DO degree you can get yourself a specific residency that competitive. Then you'll be stuck deliverying babies or something you really dont want to do and you'll have worked a lot more than doing optometry (not taking anything away from it-- im 4 eyed myself)

If you have interests in medicine beyond the eyes, by all means take the MCAT and get a 27+ and apply everywhere.

I know. I do have a huge interest in medicine beyond the eyes, but ophthamalogy would be my primary option. If I could get into ANY medical school right now, I'd throw everything away what I had to go through to apply to optometry school. The sad thing is that with my GPA and Chinese ethnicity, I mean, could it possibly get any worse? An impressive MCAT score would probably be my only hope if the initial screening is on a point scale (which I believe it is) based on grades and scores.

very good points just brought up.....obtaining a residency in optho will require you to be "the creme of the crop" of medical students.....if working with eyes is your only goal and you don't think there are other areas of medicine that you would be interested in......optometry may be the way to go for you...think long and hard about why you want to become a doctor 1st...and an opthomologist 2nd.....

Yeah I've heard many things about ophthomalogy being highly, ridiculously competitive. I wasn't the creme of the crop in college, although I wasn't too bad in high school (3.79 something GPA), so I really don't think I should even consider opthomalogy. But one can dream, right?

I know for damn sure I want to be a physician than a practicing O.D. But as I have stated above earlier, I wanted to get a reality check before I throw my money, time, effort, and a peace of mind away.


So right now what I'm going to do is this. I'm going to have my interviews with the optometry schools, and if they do accept me, ask if I could file for a deferred acceptance (what would be a good excuse for this?), take the MCAT, see how I do, and apply to med school. If they don't accept me, then wow, I'm pretty much screwed since there probably won't be any chance a med school will accept me.

 

[Stroganoff]

Just for kicks and giggles, how many credit hours of A's would you need in order to bump your 2.915 up to a 3.0?

It seems like you're trying to do too much too fast, and you might need to take two full years off if you are serious about medicine:

1st year: get some A's to bump up your GPA as much as possible, volunteer/shadow, destroy MCAT. (You might be rushing things if you were to take the April 2006 MCAT. And August 2006 might hurt you because it'll be late).
2nd year: Apply and get in. Maybe take a couple classes, work full time, volunteer/research, enjoy life.

If you're the typical 22-year-old alumnus (or 21 or 23), don't worry about age. That's nothing to freak out about at this point.

 

[HunterGatherer]

The AAMC 3R is free and can be found at the offical AAMC test site:
http://www.e-mcat.com/
MCAT info: http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/start.htm

OAT may cover the same material as the MCAT but I think the scope of the material is much different

Not sure about your GPA situation but you should get above a 3.0 with retakes if necessary and a 28-30 on the MCAT will put you in good shape. a 35+ may not save a sub 3.0 GPA while a 30+MCAT and a 3.0+ GPA makes you somewhat competitive.

Hopefully you already know that math is NOT calculated in your science GPA. GPA is calculated with 1)all science and also 2)cumulative. See the FAQ.

Thanks for the advice. I'll see if I can take a diagnostic as the OAT and MCAT share similar content.

I'm guessing the only way to substantiate my application is to get a 35+ on the MCAT. I'm certain I can pull at least a 30, but reaching that 35 or greater would be difficult. I'll see what I can do.

The majority of my pre-requisites comprises of A's and B's. I've calculated my pre-requisites GPA to be around the 3.2 range for my optometry applications. The majority of the C's and the one D came from upper division Microbiology/lab courses, but I never had the chance to make up for the D because the course was offered only once a year.

 

[kenstyle]

Just for kicks and giggles, how many credit hours of A's would you need in order to bump your 2.915 up to a 3.0?

It seems like you're trying to do too much too fast, and you might need to take two full years off if you are serious about medicine:

1st year: get some A's to bump up your GPA as much as possible, volunteer/shadow, destroy MCAT. (You might be rushing things if you were to take the April 2006 MCAT. And August 2006 might hurt you because it'll be late).
2nd year: Apply and get in. Maybe take a couple classes, work full time, volunteer/research, enjoy life.

If you're the typical 22-year-old alumnus (or 21 or 23), don't worry about age. That's nothing to freak out about at this point.

I would guess at least 24 quarter units, but I would have to get straight A's during this whole time, which I haven't seen probably since high school. I'll have to calculate the exact units to be sure though.

Why do you say the August MCAT will hurt me because it'll be late?

Yeah I'm not doing too much currently, just doing my volunteer research and gladly taking time off from finally being done with school.

 

[kenstyle]

The AAMC 3R is free and can be found at the offical AAMC test site:
http://www.e-mcat.com/
MCAT info: http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/start.htm

OAT may cover the same material as the MCAT but I think the scope of the material is much different

Not sure about your GPA situation but you should get above a 3.0 with retakes if necessary and a 28-30 on the MCAT will put you in good shape. a 35+ may not save a sub 3.0 GPA while a 30+MCAT and a 3.0+ GPA makes you somewhat competitive.

Hopefully you already know that math is NOT calculated in your science GPA. GPA is calculated with 1)all science and also 2)cumulative. See the FAQ.

Wow. I had no idea 0.1 points from a 2.9 to 3.0 makes that much of a difference. But it makes sense though.

As for the math thing, that's not good news for me.

 

[HunterGatherer]

August MCAT is fine if you have all of your paperwork done in a timely manner. A number of August MCATers are done with interviews already. I am one of them.

we are not sure what your GPA is so I'm just throwing out scores. I'm certain that things fall off rapidly once you hit 3.0.

 

[MikeyLu2010]

Dude, im chinese and we are not disadvantaged when it comes to the application cycle.. I hear East Asians have a harder time..maybe malaysian/indonesian (sp?) thailand i think...

I still think you would want to boost your gpa..a 1 year post bacc program could do that..and since the earliest you can apply to med school is this summer..and hence class of 2011 (entering 2007) plus if you apply to the medical sciences post bacc programs you have a decent chance of getting in to the respective medical school that they are affiliated with..Plus you have the opportunity to talk with the admissions staff about your particular situation regarding the upcoming application cycle...Plus if you do well medical schools across the nation will see that you can handle the workload of a medical student (most classes are shared with med students) thus improving your chances even more...

Check out the Post-bacc forum on SDN if you are interested

good luck

 

[OSUdoc08]

I did a search and I really haven't found any direct answers to my questions, so here goes:

1) Is the workload/amount of studying typically the same amount as any other MD allopathic schools? Or is it actually less, generally speaking? (this question by no means serves to fuel a spark between a DO/MD debate)

2) DO schools comprise of 4 years of education followed by another 4-6 years of residency just like allopathic schools, correct?

3) Ok this one is going to be a bit subjective and lengthy, so please bear with me:

I've recently graduated with a 2.915 (overall) GPA in Microbiology at UCLA and I've just completed and sent in my applications to 4 optometry schools (O.D.), as my OAT scores were more than adequate. I've even been invited for an interview in February. However, ophthamalogy is what I truly wish to pursue, but as you can see, my grades haven't been the most competitive aspect of me. I am currently involved in research concerning GBM (glioblastoma multiforme) human brain cancer stem cells at UCLA's cancer research center and have had a lot of experience in post-doctoral work. I've even been directly responsible for training our recently hired post-doc from China. We're going to be working with SCID mice soon and I'm excited more than ever.

Anyway, what I truly wish to pursue is acceptance into medical school, but I really don't know if my application will be competitive enough. I've never taken the MCAT (I'm still thinking of taking it), but I do not wish to neglect the 4 O.D. schools I've already applied to just to take a risk. Completing those applications was hell, particularly asking my professors to write my letters of rec (I absolutely hate asking people to do favors for me), and I do not wish to repeat this process again simply for the hell of it.

So, current osteopathic or allopathic students/applicants/graduates, what do you think of my chances of getting into medical school? (I understand this question of all varieties has been asked before, but all of the links in the *FAQ* thread led to a blank page as all the URLs were copied+pasted incorrectly)

I finished my undergrad at a decent school with a difficult major, had very good laboratory/research experience, volunteered for many hours in a hospital, observed an O.D.'s practice for more than 30 hours, been involved in a fraternity and a community service project, should I take a risk?

No, not correct.

The residency length varies, but all DO residencies are a minimum of 4 years, whereas most MD residencies are a minimum of 3 years. DO's can do MD residencies, however.

 

[kahoo99]

there's no way you'd need a 35+. i bet a 30 with good letters, shadowing a DO, and good interviewing skills will be fine. I scored a 34 and at one of my interviews they said, "wow we've never seen such a high score."

 

[kovalchuk]

No, not correct.

The residency length varies, but all DO residencies are a minimum of 4 years, whereas most MD residencies are a minimum of 3 years. DO's can do MD residencies, however.

So if a DO wanted to match in pathology, which MDs can jump right into without an internship year, they have to do an ostepathic internship and then go into pathology? Is pathology the only specialty like this?

 

[Taus]

I don't want to get into an argument over this, as you and I have discussed this in an earlier thread, but the 4 year DO min. only applies to certain fields, ie EM and a few others. There is no way that most DO's who go into DO residencies of FP, Peds, IM do more then 3 years....if I'm wrong please explain... Even if one were to go into an allopathic primary care residency, the only way that it's an extra year (EM and several others excluded) is if you need to do an AOA internship for one of the "5 states" and then onto an allopathic residency......and that is a rare occurrance these days (again..outside of EM and several others..)

 

[Taus]

ps...sorry for briefly hijacking your thread kenstyle

 

[jmv10]

[QUOTE=kenstyle

1) Is the workload/amount of studying typically the same amount as any other MD allopathic schools? Or is it actually less, generally speaking? (this question by no means serves to fuel a spark between a DO/MD debate)

I have heard that DO studnets have a greater workload and "know more" after the first two years than allo students, but this may be subjective and unique to my area (NY).

 

[kenstyle]

there's no way you'd need a 35+. i bet a 30 with good letters, shadowing a DO, and good interviewing skills will be fine. I scored a 34 and at one of my interviews they said, "wow we've never seen such a high score."

Wow. That's good to know.

Dude, im chinese and we are not disadvantaged when it comes to the application cycle.. I hear East Asians have a harder time..maybe malaysian/indonesian (sp?) thailand i think...

I still think you would want to boost your gpa..a 1 year post bacc program could do that..and since the earliest you can apply to med school is this summer..and hence class of 2011 (entering 2007) plus if you apply to the medical sciences post bacc programs you have a decent chance of getting in to the respective medical school that they are affiliated with..Plus you have the opportunity to talk with the admissions staff about your particular situation regarding the upcoming application cycle...Plus if you do well medical schools across the nation will see that you can handle the workload of a medical student (most classes are shared with med students) thus improving your chances even more...

Check out the Post-bacc forum on SDN if you are interested

good luck

I had no idea that there are 1 year post bacc programs available. Thanks for the suggestion! This sounds like something I could do to boost my gpa.

ps...sorry for briefly hijacking your thread kenstyle

No problem.

 

[OSUdoc08]

So if a DO wanted to match in pathology, which MDs can jump right into without an internship year, they have to do an ostepathic internship and then go into pathology? Is pathology the only specialty like this?

Only if they want to do an AOA resideny or become certified by the AOA after doing an ACGME residency.

This is true for many other specialties (i.e. ER)

 

[FutureDocDO]

If you can, try to study hardcore for the MCAT starting now and take it this April so you can submit your application the first day AACOMAS opens up. If you get 30 or higher you might not even have to retake anything. Good luck.

 

[beponychick]

and please dont be overconfident in getting a 30! a 30 is a hard score to obtain.. I took the MCAT 3 times and still was not able to crack it! Good luck, but dont underestimate the beast!

 

[NonTradMed]

My advice for you would be to rise up your GPA----it's going to hurt you and shut you out of some schools because of strict GPA cutoffs.

Also, don't 'assume' you'll get a 30 on the MCAT. You may, but it's not like the SAT where people can just score a 1400 with a drop of a hat. The MCAT is a difficult exam, and you will be competing against a lot of high achievers, of which they normalize your scores from...so you could do really, really well...or you may not.

Personally, I think it's a better strategy to raise up your undergrad GPA (via post-bacc) and then do MCAT. To see what range your MCAT will probably fall under, take a practice exam. I think the typical person, after intensive studying will get around a 4-5 pt increase---that is a rough number but I don't think it's a bad estimate for most people.

Also, try to shadow a physician. Going to med school means you have to think of yourself as a doctor first, [insert speciality of choice] second.

From what I've seen, as a DO, it will be harder to get into an ophthamalogy residency than as an MD. It's hard to get in as an MD, but MDs are going to be favored for ultracompetitive residencies like ophthamalogy. The training of MD and DO are the same but since a lot of ophthamalogy residencies are MD residences, and it's a competitive residency, PDs will tilt toward
'their own'---that isn't so true for most residencies but ophthamalogy is one of the most competitive ones. Just something to keep in mind.

In the end, you need to make sure you want to be a doctor first, then focus on getting that acceptance by rising up your GPA and kicking ass on the MCAT. That's just my opinion.

Oh yeah, I'm Chinese too....in cali, I know being east asian makes it more difficult to get into med school, but it's not that bad in other parts of the country where we aren't so numerous

Don't hold that victim mentality when you apply. Being Chinese isn't going to give you an advantage when applying to med school, but it won't hinder you too much either. Adcoms all want to see qualified, smart people entering their program, and they won't deny you that chance if you show them your stuff! Good luck.

 

[dr.z]

and please dont be overconfident in getting a 30! a 30 is a hard score to obtain.. I took the MCAT 3 times and still was not able to crack it! Good luck, but dont underestimate the beast!

It's not easy to score 30. I never cracked 30 myself.

 

[oldManDO2009]

The work load in btw schools would probably be similar EXCEPT we are required to also train in OMT and that requires a significant commitment in time. So not only will you complete the same basic science course for the first two years but you will also spend 3-6 hours per week practicing and learning OMT. Of course the benefit is that your anatomy skills will rock!

Our basic science course (IMO) at Touro is awesome - it tracks the Board Review Series (so far) very closely. I could study for science exams from that book alone (just about ) so overall OMT adds a decent amount of extra work when you consider the huge volume of information you have to digest in the first place.

Good luck.

 

[Raven Feather]

and please dont be overconfident in getting a 30! a 30 is a hard score to obtain.. I took the MCAT 3 times and still was not able to crack it! Good luck, but dont underestimate the beast!

I echo that, I have maintained a 4.0 for the past 3.5 years, got *A*s in all my med school prereqs and only scored a 22.

 

[Nate]

The FAQ is now fixed, I don't know how those linked got FUBARed.