HIPPA Law preventing all physician shadow opportunities

[countryboy87]

Hello everyone

I know this is not the first post about this, but this has been by experience thus far. I live in Illinois and have contacted hospitals in 3 of the largest surrounding cities. Each hospital that I have spoke with says their facility no longer allows pre-medical students to shadow due to HIPPA law regulation; they don't want the risk of being in violation. So, I can understand their concern, but where does this leave me? I believe it will be a valuable opportunity and am quite interested and willing to follow any of their rules, but no one is interested in allowing it. Do you have any suggestions?

Thank you

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[Ismet]

1. Contact private practice physicians, such as your own. Also your pediatrician if you are still near the area where you grew up.
2. Volunteer at a hospital. You have to go through HIPAA training and certification. Maybe then they'll allow you to shadow? You can also see if doctors in the department where you volunteer are willing to let you follow them around. I got to see a few procedures when I volunteered in the ED, and I know there was another volunteer who would just stay after his shift and shadow.

 

[Pacna]

That's just a BS excuse. What they REALLY told you is "I don't care enough to tolerate a shadow."

Keep looking.

 

[chenzt]

What about your school's premed office? Mine had a running list of physician alumni all over the country willing to take on premed students for shadowing.

 

[premed1001]

HIPPAA laws are actually very serious, reason being patient can sue the provider for large amounts of money, those physicians that allow shadow must gain consent of each and every patient. is the hassle really worth it for the physician?

 

[mik30102]

Second Rik1111, shadowing is not a HIPPA violation. I sighed a form that I promised not to disclose anything and that was that.

 

[lalalaaaaaa]

is the hassle really worth it for the physician?

It should be because shadowing is an important experience that is considered standard for pre-medical preparation. Shadowing is how the next generation of physicians will take their first step in learning about the patient doctor relationship, and is thus very important for physicians to be open to. That being said, HIPPA is very important and the OP needs to have permission from the patients and clinic wherever OP shadows.


OP volunteer at a hospital and take their HIPPA training. Then shadow there. Otherwise contact specific docs in departments you are interested in and they might be more willing to let you shadow. The usual protocol is for the doc and you to walk into a room and the doc asks the patient if it's okay to have a student observe. The patient almost always says yes, and then you're a fly on the wall.

Have fun with it! Shadowing is awesome.

 

[premed1001]

It should be because shadowing is an important experience that is considered standard for pre-medical preparation. Shadowing is how the next generation of physicians will take their first step in learning about the patient doctor relationship, and is thus very important for physicians to be open to. That being said, HIPPA is very important and the OP needs to have permission from the patients and clinic wherever OP shadows.

true but some patients may not feel comfortable having a complete stranger in the room, personally i would not allow anyone to be in the room that wasnt providing care.

 

[Pacna]

Have fun with it! Shadowing is awesome.

In my experience, shadowing is awesome for the first 2 hours. Then it's boring as snot.

 

[ninjaman22]

true but some patients may not feel comfortable having a complete stranger in the room, personally i would not allow anyone to be in the room that wasnt providing care.

Yeah then you don't shadow with that patient. You wait for another patient who will feel comfortable and give permission.

 

[darkjedi]

Your best bet is to ask friends and family to see if they know physicians in the family. They are your best chance in having someone willing to take on a shadow.

Its unfortunate that hospitals are using the HIPAA excuse to not allow people to shadow anymore. I remember when I first started shadowing many years ago, I was volunteering in the ICU, where the attending simply asked if I wanted to join in on morning rounds, and that was that.

 

[lalalaaaaaa]

In my experience, shadowing is awesome for the first 2 hours. Then it's boring as snot.

More than 2 hr can be tough. But it goes to show that being a doc isn't 100% action all the time. There is a lot of note taking and less "glamorous" things that are boring to someone just observing the routine. Having a doc who is willing to teach you a little bit is a huge bonus too.

 

[countryboy87]

Thank you to everyone for such a great response. I will work to make something happen based off these recommendations.

 

[Psai]

Yeah bureacracies are a nightmare to deal with. Pencil pushers making dumb rules so that they can justify their job. I found most of my shadowing opportunities from my school's premed office. They had a list of alumni and most of the people I asked said yes. I actually went for a week with an anesthesia resident that I really liked and there was only one time that he sent me home without getting to see anything. Most doctors remember being premed and understand that you want to get a feel for how it's like so talk to them and not the hospital itself.

 

[PreciousHamburgers]

Schools whose own hospitals and affiliates have explicit rules against shadowing are HUGE hypocrites for taking shadowing hours into consideration on an application...

 

[music2doc]

It should be because shadowing is an important experience that is considered standard for pre-medical preparation. Shadowing is how the next generation of physicians will take their first step in learning about the patient doctor relationship, and is thus very important for physicians to be open to. That being said, HIPPA is very important and the OP needs to have permission from the patients and clinic wherever OP shadows.


OP volunteer at a hospital and take their HIPPA training. Then shadow there. Otherwise contact specific docs in departments you are interested in and they might be more willing to let you shadow. The usual protocol is for the doc and you to walk into a room and the doc asks the patient if it's okay to have a student observe. The patient almost always says yes, and then you're a fly on the wall.

Have fun with it! Shadowing is awesome.

And your personal "pre-med experience" is important because....?

Sure, you need clinical hours, some of which should involve shadowing, but to think that your needs as a pre-med should mandate physicians to bend over backwards to make shadowing possible for you seems a bit idealistic at best and entitled & narcissistic at worst.

Nevertheless, yes, the OP should take a volunteer gig; pay his/her "dues" in terms of time/commitment volunteering and then get in to shadow whenever possible. It's an important experience. However, I think some perspective is in order -- you're really a nobody until you get into medical school. That is the point at which physicians will see training you as an [unfortunate at times] duty in order to raise up the next generation of physicians. Premeds aren't yet through that gate and nearly 70% of the people who get all the way to the MCAT will never step foot in medical school anyway, so it makes little sense for physicians to spend a whole lot of time mentoring at that stage of a person's (pre)medical training.

 

[lalalaaaaaa]

Sure, you need clinical hours, some of which should involve shadowing, but to think that your needs as a pre-med should mandate physicians to bend over backwards to make shadowing possible for you seems a bit idealistic at best and entitled & narcissistic at worst.

Well that interpretation was taken to an extreme lol. Obviously not all docs need to allow shadowing. Frankly, many docs shouldn't because they wouldn't be good at it and don't want to put up with whiny premeds, but out of 3 hospitals there should be some docs who are excited about having students shadow them. I know plenty of docs who love showing their specialty to excited and hard working pre meds and for me these have been wonderful experiences.

Your needs as a premed dictate that you should have some shadowing. This is a fact. For me to think that this should be a positive experience for students, and to think that the doc should go a little out of their way to make it a positive experience, isn't idealistic it's simply reasonable. From my shadowing it's also true. The docs go a little out of their way to explain different parts of an ECHO or talk to me generally about how they approached a clinical scenario, and I get a lot out of it.

 

[lalalaaaaaa]

And your personal "pre-med experience" is important because....?

It's important because you are considering dedicating your life to the medical profession, and you need to get a well rounded view of what you are getting yourself into. Getting experience in the clinic with docs is not a premed luxury, it's an absolute necessity. Shadowing is simply one aspect of the "pre med experience" that is important in making an informed applicant.

The personal "pre-med experience" is also the majority of an AMCAS application and the entirety of a personal statement and I've heard those are important for getting into med school.

 

[MilkIsGood]

go through the doctors, not the hospital.

 

[music2doc]

It's important because you are considering dedicating your life to the medical profession, and you need to get a well rounded view of what you are getting yourself into. Getting experience in the clinic with docs is not a premed luxury, it's an absolute necessity. Shadowing is simply one aspect of the "pre med experience" that is important in making an informed applicant.

The personal "pre-med experience" is also the majority of an AMCAS application and the entirety of a personal statement and I've heard those are important for getting into med school.

They are critical. I agree. My point is that you cannot simply expect busy physicians to jump through a bunch of hoops to get you in to shadow them. Instead, I would advocate volunteering and getting your first experiences that way. Once you build some relationships with physicians, then it is appropriate to make such requests of them. I think one can also make the argument that getting in and doing work (even if it is menial at times) is going to teach you a lot more about whether or not you would like medicine than following someone around a lot ever will.

 

[lalalaaaaaa]

They are critical. I agree. My point is that you cannot simply expect busy physicians to jump through a bunch of hoops to get you in to shadow them. Instead, I would advocate volunteering and getting your first experiences that way. Once you build some relationships with physicians, then it is appropriate to make such requests of them. I think one can also make the argument that getting in and doing work (even if it is menial at times) is going to teach you a lot more about whether or not you would like medicine than following someone around a lot ever will.

that about sums up my point. We can finally agree! Yay