How are you paying OOS tuition?

[Minnerbelle]

Paying taxes on the forgiven amount seems like a major negative. But the fact is, even so you're still paying much less than if you paid the full value of the loan. And you have 15-20 years to plan ahead for that big tax bill, which you know is coming. If you choose not to save ahead of time for that, that's on you.

Depends on the amount you owe and how fast you can pay it off.

If you owe a lot and don't have much cashflow, then it makes more sense to do that.

If you owe a smaller amount and can make large monthly payments, then you may end up paying less by just paying it off as soon as you can.

There's a tipping point somewhere along the line where it makes more sense to do one or the other.

The thing about the tax at the end is that it's hard to predict what the income tax will be in 20 years for someone with a "$300-600k income".


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[dyachei]

Paying taxes on the forgiven amount seems like a major negative. But the fact is, even so you're still paying much less than if you paid the full value of the loan. And you have 15-20 years to plan ahead for that big tax bill, which you know is coming. If you choose not to save ahead of time for that, that's on you.

well, yes and no. so you have to remember that by making a minimum payment, you increase the interest accrued. And therefore the taxable amount. There is a point where you would be much better off paying the loans rather than relying on PAYE/IBR

 

[DVMDream]

Paying taxes on the forgiven amount seems like a major negative. But the fact is, even so you're still paying much less than if you paid the full value of the loan. And you have 15-20 years to plan ahead for that big tax bill, which you know is coming. If you choose not to save ahead of time for that, that's on you.

Depends on the amount of taxes you will owe. There are many of us that will owe $200K+ in just taxes, if you are saving up to pay that, might as well just pay off the loan.

 

[Coopah]

As far as my calculations go, that tipping point is about $175k approximately before interest. That's not say I haven't included the interest in my calculations, because I have, but it is also dependent on what you're making. I'm not expecting to even touch the principle on my loan repayment plan before the tax at the end.

 

[Minnerbelle]

As far as my calculations go, that tipping point is about $175k approximately before interest. That's not say I haven't included the interest in my calculations, because I have, but it is also dependent on what you're making. I'm not expecting to even touch the principle on my loan repayment plan before the tax at the end.

Maybe for you, but it really depends on the person, their finances, what their priorities are, what they plan on doing with their careers, and where they are in life. Even when you figure it out as an individual, there are some things that will still be in the air making it kind of nebulous where exactly that tipping point is.




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[deleted498041]

This is exactly what was recommended to us by the VIN speaker. The only way forgiveness would be beneficial to you is if you planned and saved. If you don't you'd need a loan to pay off the tax and then you have to deal with that. So the problem is that if IBR is the only way you can make any sort of payment and make ends meet, you may not be able to do any saving at all.

I know it's not ideal, but I'd rather have that smaller loan than struggle with my giant one and end up going into forbearance or something like that.

 

[dyachei]

smaller loan

Again, there is a cut off where you may end up owing more depending on the amount and the interest.

 

[deleted498041]

Again, there is a cut off where you may end up owing more depending on the amount and the interest.

You're right. What I said isn't universally true for everyone facing vet school loans. I can only speak for my personal situation and what I'll be doing with regards to loans when I graduate. I'm actually going to be meeting with a financial advisor that specializes in professional loans to get some opinions and have someone else do the math for me on a bunch of scenarios. I did a lot of it before I started vet school, but now I'm going to go to a professional about it.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Another thing to consider with any of the forgiveness plans and income driven repayment plans is that you HAVE to be on top of it. Not only do you have to make monthly payments on time, you have to recertify to stay in the payment plan EVERY YEAR on time. For 10-25 years depending on the plan you're on.

It sounds like no big deal, but it is. You're dealing with a big bureaucratic system where you have to send in documents in well in advance, and continue to follow up on it until it's gone through. You can't just say, I submitted my papers on time, why am I kicked off the plan!? Cause by then it's too late, and you have to pay the consequences. It often doesn't matter that it wasn't even your fault. You have to submit things in time for the loan servicer to process everything before the deadline (and it's hard to predict how long that will take).

Over HALF of borrowers on these plans (yes, 57%!!!) FAILED to recertify on time. That means that a good portion of your interest may capitalize because you've been kicked off the plan, costing you even more in the long run. And even better, 1/3 of these late recertifiers needed to go into forbearance or deferment for some time (during which time your payments don't even count towards forgiveness).

I'm someone who's pretty darn on top of this stuff and I almost didn't make the deadline this year due to some snafu with my loan servicer. I personally know multiple people who have been screwed over by this.

Sofa king annoying.

http://www2.ed.gov/policy/highered/reg/hearulemaking/2015/paye2-recertification.pdf

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[deleted498041]

I'm sure I've asked this before and just don't remember: anyone know how I can find the average salary for different specialties? I've tried to look at job listings, but no one advertises it.

 

[Minnerbelle]

I know it's not ideal, but I'd rather have that smaller loan than struggle with my giant one and end up going into forbearance or something like that.

So what I do is stay on the PAYE so that if I'm having cashflow issues (unemployment, disability, major unexpected expenses, etc...) I can drop down my payments to a low amount. But because it makes more financial sense for me to pay it off as soon as I can, I pay well above my required monthly student loan payment on PAYE. Because I've paid so far in advance for my bigger loan, until late 2019 (!) my minimal payment is $227/month. I pay on average $3700/month, but can drop to as low as $227 if need be.

Whatever you decide to do, at time of repayment you need to make an informed decision and commit to it.

If it makes financial sense to do so, pay maximally to pay off debt as soon as you can with what you can afford, provided the amount you'll pay over the course of the loan will be lower than forgiveness+tax at the end.

Or

Pay minimal on the best repayment plan you can get on, and set aside a savings account for the likely tax you'll need in the end.

If you do something in between, you're likely just wasting money.


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[Minnerbelle]

I'm sure I've asked this before and just don't remember: anyone know how I can find the average salary for different specialties? I've tried to look at job listings, but no one advertises it.

Current second/third year residents for whatever specialty are probably your best source. Just like job hunting 4th years and recent grads around you are your best sources for ballpark starting salaries in your area.

I'm sure there must be some sort of document out there that lists salary ranges/averages, but it's going to vary so much between academia/private sectors, and if in private practice, where you practice and how successfully managed a particular hospital is.


But just like I'd be a little weary of using the BLS data of $99k being the average annual wage of veterinarians overall to estimate your future finances, I'd be a little weary of a published "average."




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[pinkpuppy9]

Another thing to consider with any of the forgiveness plans and income driven repayment plans is that you HAVE to be on top of it. Not only do you have to make monthly payments on time, you have to recertify to stay in the payment plan EVERY YEAR on time. For 10-25 years depending on the plan you're on.

It sounds like no big deal, but it is. You're dealing with a big bureaucratic system where you have to send in documents in well in advance, and continue to follow up on it until it's gone through. You can't just say, I submitted my papers on time, why am I kicked off the plan!? Cause by then it's too late, and you have to pay the consequences. It often doesn't matter that it wasn't even your fault. You have to submit things in time for the loan servicer to process everything before the deadline (and it's hard to predict how long that will take).

Over HALF of borrowers on these plans (yes, 57%!!!) FAILED to recertify on time. That means that a good portion of your interest may capitalize because you've been kicked off the plan, costing you even more in the long run. And even better, 1/3 of these late recertifiers needed to go into forbearance or deferment for some time (during which time your payments don't even count towards forgiveness).

I'm someone who's pretty darn on top of this stuff and I almost didn't make the deadline this year due to some snafu with my loan servicer. I personally know multiple people who have been screwed over by this.

Sofa king annoying.

http://www2.ed.gov/policy/highered/reg/hearulemaking/2015/paye2-recertification.pdf

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Does this also apply to PSLF? It's my understanding that you just need 120 months total of qualifying payments and that you don't need to do anything annually.

I've heard terrible things about loan servicers...

 

[Minnerbelle]

Does this also apply to PSLF? It's my understanding that you just need 120 months total of qualifying payments and that you don't need to do anything annually.

I've heard terrible things about loan servicers...

Um yeah... The whole point is that you need to be making "qualified loan payments" as in you make those payments while on one of the qualified income driven repayment plans.

And you should also be filing annual paperwork about your job's qualifications as well. Though annual paperwork is optional, you need some sort of proof that through all 120 of those qualified payments, you were indeed employed by a qualified nonprofit. Easier to have done it each year along the way, than to file all 10 years worth at the end and have them dispute it.


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[Doktor Timo]

I'm sure I've asked this before and just don't remember: anyone know how I can find the average salary for different specialties? I've tried to look at job listings, but no one advertises it.

The AVMA does a big survey every couple of years and then publishes their findings in a report called the AVMA Report on Veterinary Compensation. They break everything down in tables depending on what you're looking for, so you can see the percentiles of salaries based on specialty, gender, experience, private vs. public sector, associate vs. owner, etc. I have found it to be pretty useful, although you obviously can't say it's too scientifically rigorous since it's a voluntary survey. The results also lag a couple years from when the survey is conducted to when it's published.

The biggest drawback is that, like most things involving the AVMA, it isn't free. But if you have a good relationship with your academic librarian there's a good chance they can get it for you at no cost to you.

ETA: Here's the link if you're interested: https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/S...s-AVMA-Report-on-Veterinary-Compensation.aspx

But like I said, I wouldn't bother buying it if your library can get it to you for free.

 

[deleted498041]

So what I do is stay on the PAYE so that if I'm having cashflow issues (unemployment, disability, major unexpected expenses, etc...) I can drop down my payments to a low amount. But because it makes more financial sense for me to pay it off as soon as I can, I pay well above my required monthly student loan payment on PAYE. Because I've paid so far in advance for my bigger loan, until late 2017 my minimal payment is $260/month. I pay on average $3700/month, but can drop to as low as $260 if need be.

Whatever you decide to do, at time of repayment you need to make an informed decision and commit to it.

If it makes financial sense to do so, pay maximally to pay off debt as soon as you can with what you can afford, provided the amount you'll pay over the course of the loan will be lower than forgiveness+tax at the end.

Or

Pay minimal on the best repayment plan you can get on, and set aside a savings account for the likely tax you'll need in the end.

If you do something in between, you're likely just wasting money.


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$3700 a month?! Holy moly. I'm hopefully specializing so my monthly paycheck, before taxes, won't be likely to even reach $3700 for the first 5-ish years in practice. Very good advice though, and what has basically been told to me by accountant friends so far. Also didn't realize that paying in advance reduced your monthly payment. How do you juggle saving for retirement and diversifying investments, if you don't mind me asking?

The AVMA does a big survey every couple of years and then publishes their findings in a report called the AVMA Report on Veterinary Compensation. They break everything down in tables depending on what you're looking for, so you can see the percentiles of salaries based on specialty, gender, experience, private vs. public sector, associate vs. owner, etc. I have found it to be pretty useful, although you obviously can't say it's too scientifically rigorous since it's a voluntary survey. The results also lag a couple years from when the survey is conducted to when it's published.

The biggest drawback is that, like most things involving the AVMA, it isn't free. But if you have a good relationship with your academic librarian there's a good chance they can get it for you at no cost to you.

ETA: Here's the link if you're interested: https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/S...s-AVMA-Report-on-Veterinary-Compensation.aspx

But like I said, I wouldn't bother buying it if your library can get it to you for free.

Yes! This is what I was thinking of! Thank you

 

[YearlingsEatPeople]

VIN has an awesome calculator for figuring out how much you would pay in total with different plans. There are lots of inputs, like principle amount, spouse, quality of life, length of residency, PSLF eligibility, etc.

Also, I've used Glassdoor.com quite often to look up salaries of different positions at different employers. The salaries are provided by the people in the positions (they expect you to put in your own position, location, employer, and salary to use the more advanced features of the website, but it's free!). It's super informative! I found out that I'm pretty much paid the bare minimum of a graduate stipend at my school and in general

 

[Minnerbelle]

$3700 a month?! Holy moly. I'm hopefully specializing so my monthly paycheck, before taxes, won't be likely to even reach $3700 for the first 5-ish years in practice. Very good advice though, and what has basically been told to me by accountant friends so far. Also didn't realize that paying in advance reduced your monthly payment. How do you juggle saving for retirement and diversifying investments, if you don't mind me asking?

For now, I'm not saving for retirement or investing. I'm willing to do that because I should be able to pay off my entire balance between 38 and 42 months post graduation, at which point I'll be 32-33 yrs old. Very unlikely that any investments I make will earn over 6.8% that I KNOW I'll lose in interest if I chose to use my money to invest over paying my loans. Opportunity cost is huge here.

I'm okay with that as I'll be able to put $3000-5000 per month into a retirement account for at least the first year after that to kick it back in shape to make up for lost time. At that point I can really sit down and figure out my priorities in life without debt looming over me. I may stay in private practice full time and continue making money, drop down to part time to raise kids, go for a dental residency, actually become a shelter vet as I had initially set out to be, or who knows, maybe even leave the field altogether.

My employer doesn't match retirement funds, so that's really what decided it for me. If they did, then I would have put away the maximum amount since declining it would be missing out on free money.




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[Minnerbelle]

VIN has an awesome calculator for figuring out how much you would pay in total with different plans. There are lots of inputs, like principle amount, spouse, quality of life, length of residency, PSLF eligibility, etc.

Also, I've used Glassdoor.com quite often to look up salaries of different positions at different employers. The salaries are provided by the people in the positions (they expect you to put in your own position, location, employer, and salary to use the more advanced features of the website, but it's free!). It's super informative! I found out that I'm pretty much paid the bare minimum of a graduate stipend at my school and in general

I would recommend against glassdoor for something like vet specialists because they only have one or two entries they get from such niche fields to base their "averages" from.



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[deleted498041]

For now, I'm not saving for retirement or investing. I'm willing to do that because I should be able to pay off my entire balance between 38 and 42 months post graduation, at which point I'll be 32-33 yrs old. Very unlikely that any investments I make will earn over 6.8% that I KNOW I'll lose in interest if I chose to use my money to invest over paying my loans. Opportunity cost is huge here.

I'm okay with that as I'll be able to put $3000-5000 per month into a retirement account for at least the first year after that to kick it back in shape to make up for lost time. At that point I can really sit down and figure out my priorities in life without debt looming over me. I may stay in private practice full time and continue making money, drop down to part time to raise kids, go for a dental residency, actually become a shelter vet as I had initially set out to be, or who knows, maybe even leave the field altogether.

My employer doesn't match retirement funds, so that's really what decided it for me. If they did, then I would have put away the maximum amount since declining it would be missing out on free money.




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Thanks for the detailed response! Really appreciate it. Will be good to look back on this once I get matched and know what my benefits package will be like.

 

[lianali]

I'm sure I've asked this before and just don't remember: anyone know how I can find the average salary for different specialties? I've tried to look at job listings, but no one advertises it.

Look at the specialty's certification association. For example, the ACVP is the body in charge of vet pathology certifications, and they do put out their salary estimates for board certified pathologists. I've only ever wanted to be vet path, so I know the numbers there. Also, lab animal vets tend to make "good" salaries (at least when I worked in the animal research industry 2 years ago).

 

[deleted498041]

Look at the specialty's certification association. For example, the ACVP is the body in charge of vet pathology certifications, and they do put out their salary estimates for board certified pathologists. I've only ever wanted to be vet path, so I know the numbers there. Also, lab animal vets tend to make "good" salaries (at least when I worked in the animal research industry 2 years ago).

I've looked. Never been able to find an ACVS-quoted figure.

 

[lianali]

I've looked. Never been able to find an ACVS-quoted figure.

Soooooo, I google searched "ACVP average pathologist salary" and this was the first PDF with survey results from 2012. - https://www.acvp.org/images/2012_ACVP_Salary_Survey.pdf

Here's the google search results for "ACLAM average lab animal veterinarian salary" with survey results from 2008 - http://www.aslap.org/Content/files/files/Public/SalarySurvey2008.pdf

Those were the only two specialties I was vaguely interested in, but I assume you could go down the list of board certified associations and find their reports on average salaries.

Yeah. Unless a bolt of lighting strikes me and changes my mind, I'm going with vet pathologist.

ETA - saw that you want to be a surgeon - I would hazard a guess that there are too many surgery sub-specialties to get a good quote. Does being more specific help? Like google searching a veterinary orthopedic surgeon versus large animal surgeon?

There's also this thread from 2008 discussing surgery salaries - http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/vet-specialist-salaries.526047/

 

[deleted498041]

Soooooo, I google searched "ACVP average pathologist salary" and this was the first PDF with survey results from 2012. - https://www.acvp.org/images/2012_ACVP_Salary_Survey.pdf

Here's the google search results for "ACLAM average lab animal veterinarian salary" with survey results from 2008 - http://www.aslap.org/Content/files/files/Public/SalarySurvey2008.pdf

Those were the only two specialties I was vaguely interested in, but I assume you could go down the list of board certified associations and find their reports on average salaries.

Yeah. Unless a bolt of lighting strikes me and changes my mind, I'm going with vet pathologist.

ETA - saw that you want to be a surgeon - I would hazard a guess that there are too many surgery sub-specialties to get a good quote. Does being more specific help? Like google searching a veterinary orthopedic surgeon versus large animal surgeon?

There's also this thread from 2008 discussing surgery salaries - http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/vet-specialist-salaries.526047/

Hadn't come across your link but when I search, the top link is an SDN thread and the other subsequent links are all anecdotal, not cited, or basically something I wouldn't trust. I'd be careful trusting figures from 5+ years ago, but that's just me.

The college hasn't made any splits because LA and SA so I really doubt that surgery sub-specialty has much to do with it.

 

[Coopah]

http://animalcareers.about.com/od/Health/a/Veterinary-Surgeon.htm

This might be worth checking out, and there are links to other specialties as well.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

http://animalcareers.about.com/od/Health/a/Veterinary-Surgeon.htm

This might be worth checking out, and there are links to other specialties as well.

The 2011 AVMA Report on Veterinary Compensation found that board certified veterinary surgeons earned a median salary of $133,000 and a mean salary of $163,690. Those in the 25th percentile of earnings brought in $103,000 per year, while those in the 90th percentile of earnings brought in $250,061 per year.

I wonder what the response rate was. Probably as bad as all AVMA comepnsation reports.

 

[Camio]

I always naively assumed that I would get in to a fully funded dual degree. I never seriously considered actually paying for vet school. Things didn't work out the way I planned and I'm facing $340,000 in total debt by the time I'm through. Now I find myself reevaluating my decision to go to vet school with that amount of debt in mind. I hope to be a professor some day in order to combine my love of research, teaching, and clinical work. But I could still do two of those things without taking on any more debt. How can I put a monetary value on the fulfillment I would gain from having a clinical aspect of my career? And how do I make that decision in 12 days? Quarter life crisis...

I'm in a fairly similar boat - I had counted on finding *some* way for this to be affordable, but with my chances for the Army looking slim and being waitlisted at my ISS, I have $300,00 in loans staring me in the face. I went ahead and paid my deposit to my top choice school, but am not really fully committed. Possibly losing a $500 deposit is nothing compared to giving me several more months to figure out what to do. I've started looking at Masters degrees in my area of interest (potentially with a One Health-type DVM/PhD!). If I can still work with wildlife and conservation, and do the medical-type research that interests me while graduating faster and debt-free, maybe that is the best choice. It is just an agonizing idea to think of walking away from medicine and from a dream that I've had (and worked my butt off for) since I was a kid. Actually getting in to vet school has been the hardest part of getting into vet school...

 

[Minnerbelle]

The 2011 AVMA Report on Veterinary Compensation found that board certified veterinary surgeons earned a median salary of $133,000 and a mean salary of $163,690. Those in the 25th percentile of earnings brought in $103,000 per year, while those in the 90th percentile of earnings brought in $250,061 per year.

I wonder what the response rate was. Probably as bad as all AVMA comepnsation reports.

Hmmm did you mean to say what the median salary was, or did you actually mean to link to the definition of median salary which lists the median salary of actuaries (whoever they are) in 2009.


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[WhtsThFrequency]

Hmmm did you mean to say what the median salary was, or did you actually mean to link to the definition of median salary which lists the median salary of actuaries (whoever they are) in 2009.


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I just copied and pasted from the article.

 

[YearlingsEatPeople]

I'm in a fairly similar boat - I had counted on finding *some* way for this to be affordable, but with my chances for the Army looking slim and being waitlisted at my ISS, I have $300,00 in loans staring me in the face. I went ahead and paid my deposit to my top choice school, but am not really fully committed. Possibly losing a $500 deposit is nothing compared to giving me several more months to figure out what to do. I've started looking at Masters degrees in my area of interest (potentially with a One Health-type DVM/PhD!). If I can still work with wildlife and conservation, and do the medical-type research that interests me while graduating faster and debt-free, maybe that is the best choice. It is just an agonizing idea to think of walking away from medicine and from a dream that I've had (and worked my butt off for) since I was a kid. Actually getting in to vet school has been the hardest part of getting into vet school...

I still haven't paid my deposit anywhere... Do you think it would look poorly on a future application to a vet school to have previously turned down an offer from the same school?

 

[Posey]

I still haven't paid my deposit anywhere... Do you think it would look poorly on a future application to a vet school to have previously turned down an offer from the same school?

Unless you have a compelling reason, aside from tuition costs, it may be hard to explain.


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[langiyo]

There are a lot of ways to pay the OOS tuition, most common is loans. My friend plans to work for the government as a vet and they have forgiveness after 10 years of work (its not a big salary but their loan forgiveness is a plus but it is conditional on you making every single payment on time), my other friend plans to go the army veterinarian option, where in exchange for working for the military for 4 years of service, your vet school loans are paid for. However I've heard it's hard to get into the military vet option because you have to be physically fit and a lot of people apply. My parents are giving me a loan from their savings for most of it so I plan to pay them back instead of the bank, I feel bad taking their money but I plan to be really frugal, get a job during school to save up, and move home after graduating and so I can spend the next two years putting almost all my income into paying them back before moving out, it might suck to live at home as an adult but I'm Pakistani and in our culture you live with your parents till your married generally so I don't mind living at home to save expenses.

 

[Camio]

I still haven't paid my deposit anywhere... Do you think it would look poorly on a future application to a vet school to have previously turned down an offer from the same school?

Thar's something that worried me too. I have heard of people who were accepted and didn't attend being "blacklisted" in later years. I think if you had a decent reason, like pursuing a graduate program & making sure that vet med/research was what you really wanted, I think it would be okay - especially since you would be a super competitive applicant with a grad degree (along with being a good applicant without one). I think it would be nuts for them to fault to for exploring other areas of interest and being a more well-rounded/interesting applicant! If you just declined and took a year off to travel or work, I don't think they would like that.

 

[rockatiel]

AFAIK, there's not a stigma against people reapplying no matter the reason.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

AFAIK, there's not a stigma against people reapplying no matter the reason.

If there is a stigma, it would likely be because you wanted to try to get into another school that declined/waitlisted you (for financial reasons or not). It turns into a 'Why waste our time if you didn't fully want to attend our school?' Plus the fact that you're taking a gamble yourself by doing that anyways...I say don't apply to a school or participate in a cycle unless you're 100% sure about everything.

 

[rockatiel]

If there is a stigma, it would likely be because you wanted to try to get into another school that declined/waitlisted you (for financial reasons or not). It turns into a 'Why waste our time if you didn't fully want to attend our school?' Plus the fact that you're taking a gamble yourself by doing that anyways...I say don't apply to a school or participate in a cycle unless you're 100% sure about everything.

Oh I agree. Not sure if adcoms do think that, but I see the reasoning. There's plenty of reasons to not apply to a school that you're not sure you'd attend

 

[Gwenevre]

If there is a stigma, it would likely be because you wanted to try to get into another school that declined/waitlisted you (for financial reasons or not). It turns into a 'Why waste our time if you didn't fully want to attend our school?' Plus the fact that you're taking a gamble yourself by doing that anyways...I say don't apply to a school or participate in a cycle unless you're 100% sure about everything.

^^^^
I got my only acceptance to an expensive OOS school, and then realized that the debt load I would have to take on was too much. I didn't do my research before hand, and I ended up wasting my time and the school's time, I felt.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

^^^^
I got my only acceptance to an expensive OOS school, and then realized that the debt load I would have to take on was too much. I didn't do my research before hand, and I ended up wasting my time and the school's time, I felt.

Some of us realize this and proceed anyways...

 

[rockatiel]

Some of us realize this and proceed anyways...

Yep!

 

[cloverbug]

Everyone is ready to leave AZ, until they leave, then they are ready to come back....

And I don't know what strange bugs you are experiencing everyday, but probably something you should get checked into fixing because that isn't an issue that I have experienced.

And to have "swamp ass" you need moisture, we don't have that. You want "swamp ass" you are too far west, head to south Texas or Florida.

And I hate, hate, hate how people focus "Arizona" on dirt and heat.... you miss the beauty of this state with Sedona, Flagstaff and the mountains. There are very few places you can go that have the diversity of landscape that Arizona has.

I'm from Tucson and I never want to go back beyond visiting family and friends. I'm extremely heat sensitive so I had a horrible time there. I don't know where you live, but once monsoon season hits Tucson, "swamp ass" is a problem especially sitting in cars or in booths with leather seats. You get 110F with 30% humidity and you just want to huddle inside all day. Only nice part of summer was right after it rained. I agree some parts are very beautiful, but Arizona is not for everyone. I, personally, won't be going back even though I was born there and have lived most of my life in that state.

Back on topic, like others said, loans out the wazzoo. I use it for tuition and some day-to-day costs. My fiance and I both work but we don't make a whole lot so we like having a buffer, like in the case of spending $1500 on our dog because he decided to eat our clothes and got an obstruction. As far as paying them back, we're used to living on a budget so it won't be much of a change for us. We hope to have kids shortly after I graduate (I'll be 28 by then) and since he trusts no one, he will stay home to care for them since I'll be making more. We'll live modestly, save what we can, and hopefully I can work more towards what I want to do after a few years of creating a buffer. That's the plan anyway. We'll see if it actually happens that way.

 

[DVMDream]

I'm from Tucson and I never want to go back beyond visiting family and friends. I'm extremely heat sensitive so I had a horrible time there. I don't know where you live, but once monsoon season hits Tucson, "swamp ass" is a problem especially sitting in cars or in booths with leather seats. You get 110F with 30% humidity and you just want to huddle inside all day. Only nice part of summer was right after it rained. I agree some parts are very beautiful, but Arizona is not for everyone. I, personally, won't be going back even though I was born there and have lived most of my life in that state.

.

I live just outside of Phoenix and believe me the leather sets in cars + heat, I get it. Used to have to ride in my grandma's car every Friday to her house and she had leather seats... I got smart and started to bring a blanket with to protect my legs.

But having also been to Washington DC, Florida, Louisiana, Mississippi, Southern Texas.... you don't understand "swamp ass". Arizona is like "oven ass" even during the monsoon time.

I understand Arizona isn't for everyone, but stating that state is all heat and dirt is very inaccurate. And the heat isn't all that bad. Then again, I have also been able to experience other weather, including a few tornado warnings, snow, blizzards, and -20 degree weather and wind chills. I prefer the consistency of Arizona weather and the overall lack of severe weather threats. And dealing with snow just sucks. I know many of my Arizona friends who have never left the state think I am so lucky to have "gotten out" but until you are waking up at 5AM to go remove all the snow and ice off your car in -15 degree weather with a -20 windchill, you don't realize how nice it was to walk outside and just hop in your car and go during the winter.

 

[katashark]

AZ is awesome Plus monsoon season doesn't last that long.

 

[deleted676737]

I've only been to AZ for my Midwestern interview, but that area (Phoenix, Glendale, etc.) seemed really nice, at least. ~70 degrees in December felt fantastic. Sure beats the winters here.

 

[rockatiel]

Louisiana, Mississippi, Southern Texas.... you don't understand "swamp ass".

QFT so much QFT

 

[cloverbug]

I live just outside of Phoenix and believe me the leather sets in cars + heat, I get it. Used to have to ride in my grandma's car every Friday to her house and she had leather seats... I got smart and started to bring a blanket with to protect my legs.

But having also been to Washington DC, Florida, Louisiana, Mississippi, Southern Texas.... you don't understand "swamp ass". Arizona is like "oven ass" even during the monsoon time.

I understand Arizona isn't for everyone, but stating that state is all heat and dirt is very inaccurate. And the heat isn't all that bad. Then again, I have also been able to experience other weather, including a few tornado warnings, snow, blizzards, and -20 degree weather and wind chills. I prefer the consistency of Arizona weather and the overall lack of severe weather threats. And dealing with snow just sucks. I know many of my Arizona friends who have never left the state think I am so lucky to have "gotten out" but until you are waking up at 5AM to go remove all the snow and ice off your car in -15 degree weather with a -20 windchill, you don't realize how nice it was to walk outside and just hop in your car and go during the winter.

Oh no, I understand all of that. I've lived in North Carolina, Alaska, and currently living in Illinois. North Carolina is way more humid than Arizona will ever be, but monsoon season get sticky and gross too. For me, it was the worst time of the year because I pass out in heat and humidity aggravates my asthma. I couldn't be outside for long periods of time without problems. Even with having to shovel snow and trying not to die on icy roads, I still prefer the north. Plus, Phoenix is way greener than Tucson will ever see. Tucson is Phoenix's drug addict sister that can't get her life together. It really is pretty much dirt and heat down there plus a few mountains you can sometimes go up on as long as they're not on fire or deeply covered in snow. If you're going to live in Arizona, Northern Arizona is where you want to go. It's a much nicer mix of desert and green.

 

[battie]

Give me all the heat and sun. And I mean all the heat and sun. Colorado, Nebraska, and now Illinois...... I've grown to hate snow and cold in a very passionate way. I'm already walking at least an hour a day just so that I get sun (and, of course, it's snowing this weekend....). If I had thought Midwestern would have been a good fit for me (and if I had Organic II), I would have applied in a heart beat.

 

[DVMDream]

If you're going to live in Arizona, Northern Arizona is where you want to go. It's a much nicer mix of desert and green.

Meh, I lived in Northern Arizona for 4 years. It is nice, for sure, but it still isn't the same. There is much more snow in Northern Arizona than the midwest, the difference is the cold isn't the same. So, you can be in 19 degree weather, but you are digging a car out of 5 feet of snow vs. -20 degrees and scraping off ice and maybe 6 inches of snow. Also, Northern Arizona isn't a very "big" town. Flagstaff is the biggest and has enough, but it is a college town, like Tuscon. Tucson sucks because it is very much a college town.

I like being in a city where I have access to anything and everything I want, while still having the ability to go up north if I want to. Also Northern Arizona still gets fairly warm in the summer and with the higher elevation the sun is much more intense.

 

[alohacat319]

Oh no, I understand all of that. I've lived in North Carolina, Alaska, and currently living in Illinois. North Carolina is way more humid than Arizona will ever be, but monsoon season get sticky and gross too. For me, it was the worst time of the year because I pass out in heat and humidity aggravates my asthma. I couldn't be outside for long periods of time without problems. Even with having to shovel snow and trying not to die on icy roads, I still prefer the north. Plus, Phoenix is way greener than Tucson will ever see. Tucson is Phoenix's drug addict sister that can't get her life together. It really is pretty much dirt and heat down there plus a few mountains you can sometimes go up on as long as they're not on fire or deeply covered in snow. If you're going to live in Arizona, Northern Arizona is where you want to go. It's a much nicer mix of desert and green.

I so disagree. Not saying you're wrong, because your opinion is valid-- but I love Tucson. I've been here for 18 of my 22 years and I still think it's a beautiful place. The mountains here are hard to rival. I LOVE LOVE LOVE monsoon season though. I think the lightening storms are incredibly beautiful. I'm glad you found somewhere that makes you happy, but I personally think Tucson is amazing in its own right as well.

 

[alohacat319]

. Tucson sucks because it is very much a college town.

Downtown Tucson is a college town, but that's because it's where the college is. If you go into Oro Valley, Green Valley, Oracle, Marana, or even East Tucson, it's not nearly as much of a college town. I grew up 35 min from the U and it isn't a college town in that area at all. Sure U of A is the main attraction in terms of sports, but that's because all of the pro teams are in Phoenix. It may be known as the Dirty T, but I think a lot of people underestimate how nice it can actually be.

 

[DVMDream]

Downtown Tucson is a college town, but that's because it's where the college is. If you go into Oro Valley, Green Valley, Oracle, Marana, or even East Tucson, it's not nearly as much of a college town. I grew up 35 min from the U and it isn't a college town in that area at all. Sure U of A is the main attraction in terms of sports, but that's because all of the pro teams are in Phoenix. It may be known as the Dirty T, but I think a lot of people underestimate how nice it can actually be.

Oh it is the dirty T, but at least it isn't Snobbsdale.