How Being a Doctor Became the Most Miserable Profession

[smq123]

Care to elaborate? Being undervalued and expendable is an almost unavoidable part of life in the larger corporate world. It pervades every field that lives and breathes by the words supply and demand sans the few "Mom and Pop" companies still focused on quality relationships with employees. I'm sorry but that post came off as immature and lacking in perspective.


The number of people out there trying to just make ends meet despite a good education and skill set, and he/she blows through it as if having that kind of financial security is just a given. I don't know, and I'm completely projecting here, but to me it came off as someone who doesn't appreciate what that security means and how much most people are willing to put up with for half of that, but who knows? I may have taken that the wrong way.

You're right about one thing DermViser, I can't talk about the medical world. I'm not a doctor, I'm an engineer, but I am a person, with a real job, and a perspective just as relevant as your own. What I saw in this post was someone who had fantastic pay, good job security, hours they deemed reasonable, and a stimulating environment, who still felt the need to complain about the kind of issues you'd encounter in any job as if he/she were some sort of victim. Patients are people, and people are going to be jerks. You should see what they say to you when you try to sell them pants... And unless you're Mick Jagger, there will always be people you have to tread lightly around, and there isn't a job in the world you couldn't lose through no fault of your own (maybe government/tenured jobs).


And this is the line that really just made me think that this person, despite being an attending physician, does not have perspective. Where do these people go when they leave their low-paying, dead-end office jobs at five? Is that it? They're just super happy because they have no false pretenses about their worth? They're definitely not worried about not being able to afford a house in an area with a good school district. They definitely aren't running numbers in their head before they go to sleep wondering how they'll ever send their kids to college. They definitely aren't working overtime, or working part-time jobs. They don't worry about company downsizing, or performance evaluations, or relocation. No, for a person to have the audacity to say that these peoples' jobs could be preferable to their own because they, as people, at least know their jobs don't matter... Come on.

smq, you came off as a different person in your next post to me, but I'm sorry, this one really just got me going. DermViser, yeah I don't know what it's like to be a doctor. I imagine it has it's downsides, but these are the attitudes that get people so riled up about physicians. I read your posts because you have the perspective of someone in medicine, how about you read mine to get the perspective of someone who isn't?

I am really trying not to get angry and tell you where to shove it. You know NOTHING about me or my daily experience. You know NOTHING of what it's like to be a physician. You know NOTHING of what it's like to toss and turn until 3AM because you wonder if you made the right decision today with your patients. You know NOTHING of what it's like to have nightmares that you killed someone by mistake because you missed something. You know NOTHING of what it's like to have an MBA tell you how to treat your patient, despite the fact that you spent SEVEN years of your life trying to learn how to treat patients. You know NOTHING of what it's like to have your personal life crash around you while still trying to see a patient every 15 minutes for 8 hours a day. You know NOTHING of what it's like to wake up at 3AM every day, for 6 days a week, just so you can finish your paperwork and your charts. You know NOTHING of what it's like to have your significant other, the most important person in your life, tell you that the job is ruining your relationship and he worries that it will drive you two apart.

And you think I don't know about downsizing? You think that doctors don't get fired because clinics close? You think I don't worry about that? CMS cuts payments, and you automatically hear rumblings that they'll be firing people to save money. The NP in the office down the hall is crying because she was told that she's not seeing enough patients to justify keeping her, and she is petrified because she was the most recent hire.

So don't talk to me about "financial security" and "reasonable hours." when you truly know NOTHING of what it's like to be a physician.

No, I'm not saying that someone who works a meaningless corporate 9-5 job is "perfectly happy." I never said that. But what I DID say is that *I*might be happier in that case. ME, just ME. I'm not presuming to consider what other people would say if asked to compare. Your reading comprehension needs a serious amount of work.

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[WhippleWhileWeWork]

Yeah except a lot of diseases are self-inflicted. Obesity, smoking, diabetes are all due to lifestyle and all you need is lifestyle modification but instead of hitting a treadmill once in a while, you get people talking about "healthy at every weight" or whatever that nonsense is. PCPs are underpaid but paying them more isn't going to change the basic issues that we face which is that people don't care enough about their own health and expect doctors to reverse 30 years of autoinduced damage in a 15 minute visit.

I hear you loud and clear, what you're saying here is one of the main reasons I'm turned off to a future in primary care. Plus the guys I know who are doing it are much better men than I am. Their patience runnith over.

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

I am really trying not to get angry and tell you where to shove it. You know NOTHING about me or my daily experience. You know NOTHING of what it's like to be a physician. You know NOTHING of what it's like to toss and turn until 3AM because you wonder if you made the right decision today with your patients. You know NOTHING of what it's like to have nightmares that you killed someone by mistake because you missed something. You know NOTHING of what it's like to have an MBA tell you how to treat your patient, despite the fact that you spent SEVEN years of your life trying to learn how to treat patients. You know NOTHING of what it's like to have your personal life crash around you while still trying to see a patient every 15 minutes for 8 hours a day. You know NOTHING of what it's like to wake up at 3AM every day, for 6 days a week, just so you can finish your paperwork and your charts. You know NOTHING of what it's like to have your significant other, the most important person in your life, tell you that the job is ruining your relationship and he worries that it will drive you two apart.

Sorry to hear this part. It's something I've been repeatedly warned about for the future.
Just curious, which speciality do you practice?

 

[RogueUnicorn]

ITT: premeds going full ****** and talking back to attendings.

Sorry to hear this part. It's something I've been repeatedly warned about for the future.
Just curious, which speciality do you practice?

in context it seems like pricare

 

[NontradCA]

I am really trying not to get angry and tell you where to shove it. You know NOTHING about me or my daily experience. You know NOTHING of what it's like to be a physician. You know NOTHING of what it's like to toss and turn until 3AM because you wonder if you made the right decision today with your patients. You know NOTHING of what it's like to have nightmares that you killed someone by mistake because you missed something. You know NOTHING of what it's like to have an MBA tell you how to treat your patient, despite the fact that you spent SEVEN years of your life trying to learn how to treat patients. You know NOTHING of what it's like to have your personal life crash around you while still trying to see a patient every 15 minutes for 8 hours a day. You know NOTHING of what it's like to wake up at 3AM every day, for 6 days a week, just so you can finish your paperwork and your charts. You know NOTHING of what it's like to have your significant other, the most important person in your life, tell you that the job is ruining your relationship and he worries that it will drive you two apart.

And you think I don't know about downsizing? You think that doctors don't get fired because clinics close? You think I don't worry about that? CMS cuts payments, and you automatically hear rumblings that they'll be firing people to save money. The NP in the office down the hall is crying because she was told that she's not seeing enough patients to justify keeping her, and she is petrified because she was the most recent hire.

So don't talk to me about "financial security" and "reasonable hours." when you truly know NOTHING of what it's like to be a physician.

No, I'm not saying that someone who works a meaningless corporate 9-5 job is "perfectly happy." I never said that. But what I DID say is that *I*might be happier in that case. ME, just ME. I'm not presuming to consider what other people would say if asked to compare. Your reading comprehension needs a serious amount of work.

Honestly I lol when I read stuff like this. I may not know what it's exactly like being a physician, despite working 6 years in healthcare. However, I do have nightmares of the friends I've watched get blown up and killed. I get fidgety in public areas when there's a lot of people around. I know what it's like to get cheated on when you're in a warzone and you might not make it back home to ask why. I know what it's like to lose my job and career because of a breaking up family. I'm divorced.

My friend was murdered last week. All of the people I am friends (real friends) with have some real issues dealing with depression and adjusting to civilian life. A lot of my friends are sleeping on the ground right now. But guess what? I still have a smile on my face. I see no reason to hold my service over anyone's head or deter people from the military. This is the world I live in, and I live with the cards I'm delt. I'm super excited to be a physician. Everyone's got problems. Stop trying to sound like your life problems are somehow unique.

 

[Psai]

Working in healthcare doesn't give you an idea of what it's like to be a doctor. A scribe writing down an H&P doesn't understand why certain questions are being asked although they do get a sense of what the interview is like.

 

[NontradCA]

Working in healthcare doesn't give you an idea of what it's like to be a doctor. A scribe writing down an H&P doesn't understand why certain questions are being asked although they do get a sense of what the interview is like.

Lel.

 

[mehc012]

Working in healthcare doesn't give you an idea of what it's like to be a doctor. A scribe writing down an H&P doesn't understand why certain questions are being asked although they do get a sense of what the interview is like.

OK, first off, seriously? The point was not that you know everything a doctor knows (that would be silly). It's that you get a far better look at the daily grind of medicine - you know, all of the non-medical things everyone here is talking about - than most going into it.

As for the point you're trying to make, for some reason...Bull. Most docs actually make a point of explaining to you why they included the questions they did, at least when you're starting out, because it helps you judge what is considered relevant and that ensures that their charts document that they looked for all of the things they looked for.
We're not idiots just because we're not in med school yet. I am fully capable of putting 2 and 2 together, Googling, and using the UptoDate that's installed on every work computer. If I didn't understand why the interview went the way it did, I UptoDate it to see if there's a reasonable explanation in there. Or, I ask.
Also, most of the questions are pretty self-explanatory. I might not have thought to ask them myself, but their purpose is recognizable once they're posed, and now it's in my mind to question those things in similar situations.

 

[smq123]

Honestly I lol when I read stuff like this. I may not know what it's exactly like being a physician, despite working 6 years in healthcare. However, I do have nightmares of the friends I've watched get blown up and killed. I get fidgety in public areas when there's a lot of people around. I know what it's like to get cheated on when you're in a warzone and you might not make it back home to ask why. I know what it's like to lose my job and career because of a breaking up family. I'm divorced.

My friend was murdered last week. All of the people I am friends (real friends) with have some real issues dealing with depression and adjusting to civilian life. A lot of my friends are sleeping on the ground right now. But guess what? I still have a smile on my face. I see no reason to hold my service over anyone's head or deter people from the military. This is the world I live in, and I live with the cards I'm delt. I'm super excited to be a physician. Everyone's got problems. Stop trying to sound like your life problems are somehow unique.

WHERE, in my post, did I say I had the worst problems ever? WHERE in my post, did I say that I had the worst life ever? WHERE in my post, did I say that my life problems are somehow unique?

Is reading comprehension dead amongst pre-meds?

What I am trying to tell the pre-meds is that being a physician is not just all about "saving lives and helping people and job security and a good salary, yay!" Yes, those things are all there, and some of those things are the reasons that I have not yet quit my job.

If any of you actually took the time to read, and think about, my first post in this thread, I said nothing about "OMG BEING A DOCTOR IS THE HARDEST THING EVER" or "I'M MISERABLE ALL THE TIME OMG!!!!!!" I specifically said that:

I still think that the article exaggerates a lot, and I'm not miserable in my job. But, I would encourage people to go to med school only if they understood what kind of conditions they should look for in a job once they finish their training.

Specifically,

1) Minimize your debt. Debt traps you in bad jobs. Having minimal debt allows you to go part time, or work for a non-profit, or try some unusual practice model, or find whatever makes you happiest. Find the cheapest med school within the US you can go to, and save as much money as you can.

2) Be very very very careful about working for a large corporation. Be even more careful about working for a nonphysician. I know a lot of people who say that they will never work for a non-physician, and I believe it.

3) Negotiate your contract very carefully. Have several experienced physicians that you trust read it over. Especially watch for call schedules, how much you have to supervise PAs and NPs, etc.

4) Realize that the most time consuming part about patient care is almost always the documentation. Keep that in mind when negotiating your work schedule. Anyone else read that article in the NY Times about how many ERs are hiring full-time scribes? Think about why so many ERs would spend the money to hire scribes. They're doing it for the reason that I'm talking about.

5) If you are tied to a location, or want a lot of flexibility, choose your specialty carefully. If you're one of those people who might wilt if they can't live in California forever, realize that finding a job in certain specialties in California is next to impossible.

 

[Psai]

OK, first off, seriously? The point was not that you know everything a doctor knows (that would be silly). It's that you get a far better look at the daily grind of medicine - you know, all of the non-medical things everyone here is talking about - than most going into it.

As for the point you're trying to make, for some reason...Bull. Most docs actually make a point of explaining to you why they included the questions they did, at least when you're starting out, because it helps you judge what is considered relevant and that ensures that their charts document that they looked for all of the things they looked for.
We're not idiots just because we're not in med school yet. I am fully capable of putting 2 and 2 together, Googling, and using the UptoDate that's installed on every work computer. If I didn't understand why the interview went the way it did, I UptoDate it to see if there's a reasonable explanation in there. Or, I ask.
Also, most of the questions are pretty self-explanatory. I might not have thought to ask them myself, but their purpose is recognizable once they're posed, and now it's in my mind to question those things in similar situations.

This is exactly the kind of thinking that makes mid level providers think that they are the same as physicians. You just don't have the background knowledge to put things in context. The whole point is to think of the questions yourself based on the differential diagnosis you come up with as soon as you hear the chief complaint. Anyone can do cookbook medicine and give the same drug regimen for a certain set of symptoms. It's all about critical thinking and understanding why you do things. Glancing at uptodate for a few minutes doesn't replace a medical education.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Glancing at uptodate for a few minutes doesn't replace a medical education.

Indeed, it takes a full 4 years of disciplined reading of uptodate and wikipedia

 

[Xenoblade]

 

[487806]

ITT: premeds going full ****** and talking back to attendings.

It's preallo. What do you expect? Idealism and sheer stupidity >>>> practical experiences

 

[487806]

The first page I think is okay, after that, people get really sad. I mean, we have some who call themselves professionals resorting to name calling and child-like fighting. Then they are hypocritically saying premeds need to grow up.

I too got caught up in the thrill of it all, seeing how far I could push these wise ones. I stopped after I ID'ed one of the "professional's" real name (site:forums.studentdoctor.net "USERNAME" "Joined: DATE" pulled all his posts), and saw a complete lack of recent science publications and nothing impressive to speak of (pubmed using real name, confirmed with affiliations). That, and he's close to me, and then it got too real. I had a whole post ready to attack him directly, and... I just deleted it. It's like, what's the point? It just looked so pathetic, and I'm this anonymous person who he is incapable of ID'ing no matter how hard he tries. Tying a face to all this hate, and this is a future-doctor/doctor. He's not a leader in anything, just someone who needs to validate himself.

I realized then the conversation wasn't worth it.

Guys, remember, we're all real people. Keep it civil.


Apparently there's a "better" version of this thread in the Allo forums. I didn't bother to check. I think this thread is doomed.

... and you completely ignored my questions. Well done dude.

 

[mehc012]

This is exactly the kind of thinking that makes mid level providers think that they are the same as physicians. You just don't have the background knowledge to put things in context. The whole point is to think of the questions yourself based on the differential diagnosis you come up with as soon as you hear the chief complaint. Anyone can do cookbook medicine and give the same drug regimen for a certain set of symptoms. It's all about critical thinking and understanding why you do things. Glancing at uptodate for a few minutes doesn't replace a medical education.

I never once said it did.
My only claim was that I got a better glimpse of the daily grind - aka the lifestyle and inconveniences that this entire thread centered around.
You then stated that I was incapable of figuring out why they asked the questions. I am not incapable of figuring that out. Am I ready to practice medicine? Hell the eff no. I never claimed to be. I am not educated enough to know these things ahead of time. I AM capable of figuring them out as they occur, after watching someone educated at work.

I don't understand why you think that I in any way believe that I don't need a medical education or that my learning is comparable to that. My first post was purely about lifestyle, and my second was in response to an overly hyperbolic claim you made.

 

[487806]

Care to elaborate? Being undervalued and expendable is an almost unavoidable part of life in the larger corporate world. It pervades every field that lives and breathes by the words supply and demand sans the few "Mom and Pop" companies still focused on quality relationships with employees. I'm sorry but that post came off as immature and lacking in perspective.


The number of people out there trying to just make ends meet despite a good education and skill set, and he/she blows through it as if having that kind of financial security is just a given. I don't know, and I'm completely projecting here, but to me it came off as someone who doesn't appreciate what that security means and how much most people are willing to put up with for half of that, but who knows? I may have taken that the wrong way.

You're right about one thing DermViser, I can't talk about the medical world. I'm not a doctor, I'm an engineer, but I am a person, with a real job, and a perspective just as relevant as your own. What I saw in this post was someone who had fantastic pay, good job security, hours they deemed reasonable, and a stimulating environment, who still felt the need to complain about the kind of issues you'd encounter in any job as if he/she were some sort of victim. Patients are people, and people are going to be jerks. You should see what they say to you when you try to sell them pants... And unless you're Mick Jagger, there will always be people you have to tread lightly around, and there isn't a job in the world you couldn't lose through no fault of your own (maybe government/tenured jobs).


And this is the line that really just made me think that this person, despite being an attending physician, does not have perspective. Where do these people go when they leave their low-paying, dead-end office jobs at five? Is that it? They're just super happy because they have no false pretenses about their worth? They're definitely not worried about not being able to afford a house in an area with a good school district. They definitely aren't running numbers in their head before they go to sleep wondering how they'll ever send their kids to college. They definitely aren't working overtime, or working part-time jobs. They don't worry about company downsizing, or performance evaluations, or relocation. No, for a person to have the audacity to say that these peoples' jobs could be preferable to their own because they, as people, at least know their jobs don't matter... Come on.

smq, you came off as a different person in your next post to me, but I'm sorry, this one really just got me going. DermViser, yeah I don't know what it's like to be a doctor. I imagine it has it's downsides, but these are the attitudes that get people so riled up about physicians. I read your posts because you have the perspective of someone in medicine, how about you read mine to get the perspective of someone who isn't?

Hopefully this is your last post. The amount of nonsense, disrespect and idealism (I'm being as nice as I can) that you and @type12 spew in this thread is astounding... so much to rile up and infuriate people who are much more experienced than you.

 

[type12]

Funny, I read it as a veiled threat, rather than a "professional" move to not out whatever poster he is talking about (presumably dermviser)

I'm not sure what you're talking about. I stopped because it's not right, not because it's professional. That, and after seeing what a small fish he/SHE was, I already felt more accomplished. It's like striking down someone when they have no defense. I'm an anonymous poster, he's someone.

... and you completely ignored my questions. Well done dude.

Sorry, missed them in the spread of posts.

Are you implying this thread and your hypothetical situation are one in the same? That a doctor is superior to a software engineer, or software engineers are inferior to doctors?

Also, specifically what is the nature of the disagreement? Is the doctor touching me inappropriately? Is a patient's life at stake? It's too vague at the moment. If you think I respect authority for the sake of authority, I got two of my med school interviews because I demonstrated a history of prefering right over personal gain.

 

[487806]

Sorry, missed them in the spread of posts.

Are you implying this thread and your hypothetical situation are one in the same? That a doctor is superior to a software engineer, or software engineers are inferior to doctors?

Also, specifically what is the nature of the disagreement? Is the doctor touching me inappropriately? Is a patient's life at stake? It's too vague at the moment. If you think I respect authority for the sake of authority, I got two of my med school interviews because I demonstrated a history of prefering right over personal gain.

The fact you still didn't understand what I was getting at despite I made it clear shows more about your comprehension problems than anything else. Also the source of irritation from the higher-ups.

 

[type12]

The fact you still didn't understand what I was getting at despite I made it clear shows more about your comprehension problems than anything else. Also the source of irritation from the higher-ups.

Why are you unable to clarify then?

 

[487806]

Why are you unable to clarify then?

... it's not the problem of me clarifying. It's the problem of you not understanding it even though others can.

 

[type12]

... it's not the problem of me clarifying. It's the problem of you not understanding it even though others can.

What part did I not understand? It's ambiguous, is it not? Why are those questions a problem to ask? Do they bother you because it appears like if I said "HELL YES I WOULD if he is a sexual deviant" would not give you quite the satisfaction?

Loook, I'll play the hypothetical. I understood it too well, that IT DEPENDS, and that very informed answer seems to bother you.

But hey, if you took the time to point out I didn't answer it, why not take the time to lay out your hypothetical more clearly. You are not perfect, neither am I. Maybe I'm not understanding, or you're not a good writer. So write it out in ONE post.

 

[QuinnTheEskimo]

Ha, this was a good laugh. "NIOSH recorded 476 suicides among 16,887 white male deaths." Such a representative sample set!

The "I don't recommend it" can be interpreted many ways: "Hey, I just bought this Porsche, but this is not the life for you. It really sucks. Hey, I'm having a party at my fifth summer home. It's so miserable that I have to go travel just to enjoy my world-class jacuzzi. It's terrible man, I swear." <-- one example.

LOL if you think the average doctor salary allows for this lifestyle...

 

[487806]

What part did I not understand? It's ambiguous, is it not? Why are those questions a problem to ask? Do they bother you because it appears like if I said "HELL YES I WOULD if he is a sexual deviant" would not give you quite the satisfaction?

Loook, I'll play the hypothetical. I understood it too well, that IT DEPENDS, and that very informed answer seems to bother you.

But hey, if you took the time to point out I didn't answer it, why not take the time to lay out your hypothetical more clearly. You are not perfect, neither am I. Maybe I'm not understanding, or you're not a good writer. So write it out in ONE post.

I wonder whether you would return fire in real life... especially during clinical years

The fact you didn't understand that while others did says enough. Not my problem if you can't understand. Just pointing out the source of "additional" miseries created in this thread.

 

[type12]

The fact you didn't understand that while others did says enough. Not my problem if you can't understand. Just pointing out the source of "additional" miseries created in this thread.

Haha, it appears I answered your question too well, and destroyed your argument to bits. I'm satisfied if you're satisfied. You can believe what you want.

People are equal, and the medical structure doesn't concern me if someone's life or well-being is at stake, even at the cost of my own personal gain. I'm sorry you hate this very sound answer.

 

[type12]

LOL if you think the average doctor salary allows for this lifestyle...

...then you can't see exaggeration...

 

[487806]

Haha, it appears I answered your question too well, and destroyed your argument to bits. I'm satisfied if you're satisfied. You can believe what you want.

People are equal, and the medical structure doesn't concern me if someone's life or well-being is at stake, even at the cost of my own personal gain. I'm sorry you hate this very sound answer.

So you'll talk back to residents/attendings as a med student when they criticize you?

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I'm not sure what you're talking about. I stopped because it's not right, not because it's professional. That, and after seeing what a small fish he/SHE was, I already felt more accomplished. It's like striking down someone when they have no defense. I'm an anonymous poster, he's someone.

Because if you actually regretted your actions, you wouldn't have brought them up. You (a) brought them up and (b) tried to diminish the poster in order to make yourself feel like you have power over them - thus I think it's obviously intended as a threat, and obviously a violation of the terms of service.

 

[type12]

So you'll talk back to residents/attendings as a med student when they criticize you?

You're doing the same thing again. Criticize me for what? Not giving out? For my beliefs? For not letting him rape a patient? That last one is to show you why specifics matters

You seriously can't be this vague, as it depends.

EDIT: I also am curious why you are asking this question and if it has any relation to the thread.

Because if you actually regretted your actions, you wouldn't have brought them up. You (a) brought them up and (b) tried to diminish the poster in order to make yourself feel like you have power over them - thus I think it's obviously intended as a threat, and obviously a violation of the terms of service.

Which poster? You don't know who he/she is, and I'm not saying. It's not a threat that I looked up someone on the internet, which anyone can do. You're not making any sense. I also said he/she turned out to be a small fish, who is not worth fighting with. How is this threatening?

 

[QuinnTheEskimo]

...then you can't see exaggeration...

You are totally off base. One of the biggest complaints among doctors I know that they don't get paid nearly enough. The salaries are measly compared to their college friends who went into law and finance. It's a huge sacrifice. If you want a nice lifestyle, nice cars, and a big house, medicine is the wrong way to go.

 

[487806]

You're doing the same thing again. Criticize me for what? Not giving out? For my beliefs? For not letting him rape a patient? That last one is to show you why specifics matters

Sigh... if they criticized your views (to keep in context of this thread)

 

[type12]

Sigh... if they criticized your views (to keep in context of this thread)

No of course not. But no one in this thread holds the same power of authority over me. My position as a forum poster is an equal to other forum posters (mods excluded). So how is this relevant?

 

[Life Sucks]

9 pages of drivel by a bunch of people acting like children.

 

[487806]

No of course not. But no one in this thread holds the same power of authority over me. My position as a forum poster is an equal to other forum posters (mods excluded). So how is this relevant?

Because your views really don't mean anything, and serve only to irritate those who have been through the process.

 

[type12]

Because your views really don't mean anything, and serve only to irritate those who have been through the process.

Why can't the same be said of your views? And why post on a pre-allo forum if this is so?

I'm kind of disappointed. I was expecting some beautiful, eloquent, and logical explanation on why my answer is wrong to your hypothetical. Shouldn't doctors speak very well? They should be good at explaining things instead of just dismissing others. "Doctors, why are you giving me this?" "Your understanding doesn't matter. It's annoying to ask."

 

[DermViser]

It's preallo. What do you expect? Idealism and sheer stupidity >>>> practical experiences

Sometimes it even continues into med school

Exhibit A:

 

[DermViser]

You are totally off base. One of the biggest complaints among doctors I know that they don't get paid nearly enough. The salaries are measly compared to their college friends who went into law and finance. It's a huge sacrifice. If you want a nice lifestyle, nice cars, and a big house, medicine is the wrong way to go.

And even now, third party payers and the govt. feel like providers are getting too much money. Hence the need to rachet down reimbursements even further.

 

[type12]

9 pages of drivel by a bunch of people acting like children.

I like this, because the premeds acting like children is not quite as amusing to watch as the med students and physicians breaking character and showing their true colors. It gives me hope that if people like this can make it, then someone equally childish like myself can.

 

[DermViser]

Hey NickNaylor (and everyone), What advice would you give a junior in college of "average" intelligence considering medicine? I am capable of doing pretty well in biological science classes but I am pretty weak in classes like physics (studied hard to just get a B). I also performed well in the Bio/VR section of the MCAT but got a 9 on the physical sciences. Since med school is mainly bio sciences, should I be alright?

I also agree that there is no way for us premeds to know how med school/residency/being an attending will be like. Despite this do you think it is reasonable to expect to find a place in medicine as an attending where we are able to work a predictable schedule with 50-60 hour weeks? Is it reasonable for me to expect that after residency (as long as I choose the right residency) I can have a balanced life?

Also would you guys recommend being a PA to pre-meds? Looking back now would you consider PA school more?

You should probably use the @ symbol, if you want to get his attention to your post @NickNaylor.

 

[DermViser]

To those of you who think medicine is miserable, what were you expecting? Did you guys turn your brain off when you shadowed? I don't get it.

You know that no shadowing experience can reproduce what you are exposed to as an MS-3, unless you have really good connections, right?

 

[Nearby]

Is administrative work and dealing with insurance companies that bad? Does it become easier with more experience?

 

[487806]

Why can't the same be said of your views? And why post on a pre-allo forum if this is so?

I'm kind of disappointed. I was expecting some beautiful, eloquent, and logical explanation on why my answer is wrong to your hypothetical. Shouldn't doctors speak very well? They should be good at explaining things instead of just dismissing others. "Doctors, why are you giving me this?" "Your understanding doesn't matter. It's annoying to ask."

I like this, because the premeds acting like children is not quite as amusing to watch as the med students and physicians breaking character and showing their true colors. It gives me hope that if people like this can make it, then someone equally childish like myself can.

Strong job in trolling dude. If you're actually being serious, I feel sorry for you.

 

[NontradCA]

Nm. Don't even care.

 

[Psai]

Why can't the same be said of your views? And why post on a pre-allo forum if this is so?

I'm kind of disappointed. I was expecting some beautiful, eloquent, and logical explanation on why my answer is wrong to your hypothetical. Shouldn't doctors speak very well? They should be good at explaining things instead of just dismissing others. "Doctors, why are you giving me this?" "Your understanding doesn't matter. It's annoying to ask."

Because experience is something that cannot be explained in words. We have more of it. Asking and keeping a skeptical mind is not bad in itself but it becomes annoying when you persist in your own wrong views when educated.

 

[DermViser]

I am really trying not to get angry and tell you where to shove it. You know NOTHING about me or my daily experience. You know NOTHING of what it's like to be a physician. You know NOTHING of what it's like to toss and turn until 3AM because you wonder if you made the right decision today with your patients. You know NOTHING of what it's like to have nightmares that you killed someone by mistake because you missed something. You know NOTHING of what it's like to have an MBA tell you how to treat your patient, despite the fact that you spent SEVEN years of your life trying to learn how to treat patients. You know NOTHING of what it's like to have your personal life crash around you while still trying to see a patient every 15 minutes for 8 hours a day. You know NOTHING of what it's like to wake up at 3AM every day, for 6 days a week, just so you can finish your paperwork and your charts. You know NOTHING of what it's like to have your significant other, the most important person in your life, tell you that the job is ruining your relationship and he worries that it will drive you two apart.

And you think I don't know about downsizing? You think that doctors don't get fired because clinics close? You think I don't worry about that? CMS cuts payments, and you automatically hear rumblings that they'll be firing people to save money. The NP in the office down the hall is crying because she was told that she's not seeing enough patients to justify keeping her, and she is petrified because she was the most recent hire.

So don't talk to me about "financial security" and "reasonable hours." when you truly know NOTHING of what it's like to be a physician.

No, I'm not saying that someone who works a meaningless corporate 9-5 job is "perfectly happy." I never said that. But what I DID say is that *I*might be happier in that case. ME, just ME. I'm not presuming to consider what other people would say if asked to compare. Your reading comprehension needs a serious amount of work.

I was going to respond to @EngineerPreMD , but you answered and articulated it better than I ever could. You hit the nail right on the head.

 

[DermViser]

Honestly I lol when I read stuff like this. I may not know what it's exactly like being a physician, despite working 6 years in healthcare. However, I do have nightmares of the friends I've watched get blown up and killed. I get fidgety in public areas when there's a lot of people around. I know what it's like to get cheated on when you're in a warzone and you might not make it back home to ask why. I know what it's like to lose my job and career because of a breaking up family. I'm divorced.

My friend was murdered last week. All of the people I am friends (real friends) with have some real issues dealing with depression and adjusting to civilian life. A lot of my friends are sleeping on the ground right now. But guess what? I still have a smile on my face. I see no reason to hold my service over anyone's head or deter people from the military. This is the world I live in, and I live with the cards I'm delt. I'm super excited to be a physician. Everyone's got problems. Stop trying to sound like your life problems are somehow unique.

Your "6 years in healthcare" and life experience mean jack squat when it comes to what it is to be a physician.

 

[Xenoblade]

Sometimes it even continues into med school

Exhibit A:

This made my day.

 

[DermViser]

This made my day.

Yeah, the indoctrination is crazy. It's med students + Occupy Wall Street.

 

[Xenoblade]

Yeah, the indoctrination is crazy. It's med students + Occupy Wall Street.

The funny thing is that I have seen people like james besante (the loud mouth) who end up gunning for a road specialty.

They beat their chest and make a lot of noise, but when the chips are down they have a sudden change of heart.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

You know that no shadowing experience can reproduce what you are exposed to as an MS-3, unless you have really good connections, right?

even an ms-3 experience imo is heavily limited

 

[DermViser]

The funny thing is that I have seen people like james besante (the loud mouth) who end up gunning for a road specialty.

They beat their chest and make a lot of noise, but when the chips are down they have a sudden change of heart.

Bingo. Funny how all that rhetoric changes when they experience MS3 clerkships.