How competent are fourth year med students supposed to be?

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samuelp said:
that it's as if the whole system is rigged. it's like studying your ass off and hoping to god that you learned enough to not be in the bottom 10%
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It's rigged bc not everyone is guaranteed to pass the exam?
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samuelp said:
actually. I deserve a residency cause I'm a competent physician who will probably only need minimal oversight as long as I'm not dealing with unstable patients.

wait wait... how many students pass all three steps in 3 years?
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How?
 
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samuelp said:
it's not a percent you misinformed fool. or a percentile for that matter. I'm using the fact that I passed all three to say I should be starting training now. not my numerical scores.

IF YOU CAN'T GET SOMETHING RIGHT WHEN THE ANSWER IS RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU, THEN THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOU.
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Passing all three means jack **** to deserve residency. Especially a foreign grad...but those people prove their worth with MORE than measly widdle test scores. And as YOU know, needing oversight has nothing to do with a test score, at all. If anyone says that they deserve residency simply because they passed some little test, they are people that will get spat on....

If you can't get into residency, should have worked harder in rotations, gotten strong LORs, etc.
 
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h8ECADF83
 
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samuelp said:
yeah... I just read that article... so DV, you're definitely a troll. so is southIM for making me feel bad about my diploma.
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http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...rolls-are-narcissists-psychopaths-and-sadists

In this month's issue of Personality and Individual Differences,a study was published that confirms what we all suspected: internet trolls are horrible people.

Let's start by getting our definitions straight. An internet troll is someone who comes into a discussion and posts comments designed to upset or disrupt the conversation. Often, it seems like there is no real purpose behind their comments except to upset everyone else involved. Trolls will lie, exaggerate, and offend to get a response.

What kind of person would do this?

Canadian researchers decided to find out. They conducted two internet studies with over 1,200 people. They gave personality tests to each subject along with a survey about their internet commenting behavior. They were looking for evidence that linked trolling with the Dark Tetrad of personality:narcissism, Machiavellianism, psychopathy, and sadistic personality.

[Edit to add: these are technical terms with formalized surveys to measure them. You can find lots more information about their formal definitions online]

They found that Dark Tetrad scores were highest among people who said trolling was their favorite internet activity. To get an idea of how much more prevalent these traits were among internet trolls, check out this figure from the paper:
160044-164454.png


Look at how low the scores are for everyone except the internet trolls! Their scores for all four terrible personality traits soar on the chart. The relationship between this Dark Tetrad and trolling is so significant, that the authors write the following in their paper:

"... the associations between sadism and GAIT (Global Assessment of Internet Trolling) scores were so strong that it might be said that online trolls are prototypical everyday sadists." [emphasis added]

Trolls truly enjoy making you feel bad. To quote the authors once more (because this is a truly quotable article):

"Both trolls and sadists feel sadistic glee at the distress of others. Sadists just want to have fun ... and the Internet is their playground!"

So next time you encounter a troll online, remember a few things. (1) These trolls are some truly messed up people and (2) it is your suffering that brings them pleasure, so the best thing you can do is ignore them.

References

Buckels, Erin E., Paul D. Trapnell, and Delroy L. Paulhus. "Trolls just want to have fun." Personality and Individual Differences67 (2014): 97-102.
 
it actually would be good to get suspended off here. it's like falling into quicksand once getting involved with this place.
 
This place is fine. I know you are mad for not matching, but you just have to keep your head up. Yes, your school is looked down upon, but you have to make it work. As you know, test scores don't mean a whole lot. So, you have to shine in multiple ways! Hopefully you have LOTS of strong US letters of recs, and on your rotations, the residents/attending wrote amazing comments. Oh and if you're into research, that always helps.
 
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Sorry to (continue to) hijack this thread, but Dark Tetrad is simply amazing. I need to find away to work that into my daily lexicon.

Also, I think I might be a troll.
 
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samuelp said:
So next time you encounter a troll online, remember a few things. (1) These trolls are some truly messed up people and (2) it is your suffering that brings them pleasure, so the best thing you can do is ignore them.

how can I ignore someone who keeps rubbing in the fact that I didn't match and have a "substandard education" which he isn't even qualified to evaluate....
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He isn't rubbing it in. You didn't match (true) and residencies do consider Carribbean schools to be substandard as they are not LCME accredited. Has nothing to do with you personally.
 
colbgw02 said:
Sorry to (continue to) hijack this thread, but Dark Tetrad is simply amazing. I need to find away to work that into my daily lexicon.

Also, I think I might be a troll.
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You're psychopathic, sadistic, and Machiavellian? All docs have a little bit of narcissism so I'll let that slide. Does your wife know?
 
DermViser said:
He isn't rubbing it in. You didn't match (true) and residencies do consider Carribbean schools to be substandard as they are not LCME accredited. Has nothing to do with you personally.
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I would feel sorry for him if he were less of a total d^** to people (esp in the match thread from last year). He's wasted four plus years and god knows how much money, and still lacks the maturity to understand the mistake he made. So instead he lashed out at everyone else.
 
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samuelp said:
LCME is a buncha bull**** and you know that. they get paid off. half you guys don't even go to class...

I actually have minimal narcissism. I'm actually somewhat avoidant.
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So?
 
samuelp said:
HAH! I tricked ya. so you study from the same books and get the same scores. and have basically the same rotations. Therefore equivalent education and get steamrolled by some of the caribbean students on the steps. your own fault. shoulda went to class :claps:
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You realize that medical school lectures are videotaped right (that includes audio as well) so one does not have to be physically in the classroom in order to get the information? Oh and regarding basically the same rotations: :sendoff: :nono:
 
southernIM said:
I would feel sorry for him if he were less of a total d^** to people (esp in the match thread from last year). He's wasted four plus years and god knows how much money, and still lacks the maturity to understand the mistake he made. So instead he lashed out at everyone else.
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Yup, his Dark Tetrad traits with a mix of arrogance doesn't help.
 
DermViser said:
You realize that medical school lectures are videotaped right (that includes audio as well) so one does not have to be physically in the classroom in order to get the information? Oh and regarding basically the same rotations: :sendoff: :nono:
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No I didn't know that they do that. and yeah... they're the same rotations... I wrote all my H/P and A/P, saw patients on my own, was there on rounds, did my shelf exams, wrote prescriptions, operated in the OR, procedures, central lines, periph IVs, did all the same stuff you guys did.
 
samuelp said:
LCME is a buncha bull**** and you know that. they get paid off. half you guys don't even go to class...

I actually have minimal narcissism. I'm actually somewhat avoidant.
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I've been lurking this thread for a little while now. :corny:

Most US schools record their lectures, allowing one to study on their own. A lot of SDNers further along than myself have attested to the fact that listening to a slow speaker at 1.5x or 2x normal speed is more efficient since it removes filler-phrases.

I don't really believe that you are devoid of narcissistic traits, given that you've been screeching for four pages about how passing a series of standardized tests makes you able to be a medical doctor because you're just that special of a snowflake.

It would be akin to having someone pass the GRE, the GRE subject test in a field, and the second-year exams and stating that they are qualified to be professors- completely ignoring the rigor of their program. At first, this may not seem so bad; until you realize that the person that got their degree entirely online from the University of Phoenix or another degree mill is competing with the same people that attended lectures at more reputable institutions and fought for the grades. This also ignores someone's latent teaching ability; which is already in massive shortages in the PhD population.

At least in the above example, if one slips through the cracks- it's just a bad college teacher. You're in a field where you are accountable for other's care while they are ill; which comes with additional responsibility. I could understand why some would be more cautious.
 
This thread was entertaining. Delusional Carib grab who bashed DO school in the past (although it seems he would've matched into something had he done as well on the Steps as he did in the Carib) gets his just desserts from two members of the SDN all-star team, DV and SouthernIM.

Let me go make some popcorn so I can enjoy future posts.
 
They're suppose know stuff.
 
evilbooyaa said:
This thread was entertaining. Delusional Carib grab who bashed DO school in the past (although it seems he would've matched into something had he done as well on the Steps as he did in the Carib) gets his just desserts from two members of the SDN all-star team, DV and SouthernIM.

Let me go make some popcorn so I can enjoy future posts.
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Except that's not what he was arguing as what was initially thought. He finally said he deserves to go to residency bc he passed the Steps, not bc he got like a 250/260 something. Needless to say his hubris and ability to read the medical literature needs some work.
 
hey. at least I provided information that stimulates intelligent thought and illuminates the fact that there are statistical associations with graphs and data for all the points I raised. even if you can't say the converse of what I did on the last article... it still makes you wonder if you can do a study to do that. wouldn't be difficult to do either.

I tend to enjoy punching above my weight.

btw I got between a 240 and 250 on the first one and accidentally ended a block early... how'd you guys do?
 
Sorry to hear you had great board scores and didn't get a residency. Maybe your LORs were too truthful.
 
samuelp said:
No I didn't know that they do that. and yeah... they're the same rotations... I wrote all my H/P and A/P, saw patients on my own, was there on rounds, did my shelf exams, wrote prescriptions, operated in the OR, procedures, central lines, periph IVs, did all the same stuff you guys did.
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Maybe you should put that on your personal statement? Because we aren't adcoms. Or we wouldn't consider you based on your posts. Talk about entitled.
If you say you're so hot, then why aren't you in residency? I wonder what your LORs really say.
And passing shelf exams isn't anywhere difficult. Esp on SDN. You're in the 1%
 
samuelp said:
hey. at least I provided information that stimulates intelligent thought and illuminates the fact that there are statistical associations with graphs and data for all the points I raised. even if you can't say the converse of what I did on the last article... it still makes you wonder if you can do a study to do that. wouldn't be difficult to do either.

I tend to enjoy punching above my weight.

btw I got between a 240 and 250 on the first one and accidentally ended a block early..how'd you guys do?
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The current residents you are arguing with (DV and SouthernIM) matched into residency. I think that's better than unmatched, angry, and ranting on the internet with jealousy.

On a side note: the 'information' you presented does not support your conclusions. Correlation != Causation. Anyone with exposure to biostats should see that.
 
evilbooyaa said:
The current residents you are arguing with (DV and SouthernIM) matched into residency. I think that's better than unmatched, angry, and ranting on the internet with jealousy.

On a side note: the 'information' you presented does not support your conclusions. Correlation != Causation. Anyone with exposure to biostats should see that.
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The "statistical associations with graphs and data for all the points I raised" from his article that he posted doesn't even support his original thesis. He thought that bc residency performance predicted USMLE Step 3 performance, that meant the converse must be true - USMLE Step 3 performance predicts residency performance was true.
 
the information I presented warrants further inquiry into my conclusions. QED.

yes. the residents that matched into residency are probably very good people, they genuinely care about their patients like I do, and I'm sure they were much more fortunate than me with their academic performances. maybe they were just able to communicate and present that better.

but I'm not angry or jealous.
 
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samuelp said:
the information I presented warrants further inquiry into my conclusions. QED.

yes. they residents that matched into residency are probably very good people, they genuinely care about their patients like I do, and I'm sure they were much more fortunate than me with their academic performances. maybe they were just able to communicate and present that better.

but I'm not angry or jealous.
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Your ranting on this thread detailing how you would be a better residency candidate than some of the people who matched seems to state the opposite.
 
Well didn't exactly expect a post war on this thread, but thanks for the input everyone.
 
For more input OP, you can ask your mentors or residents in the field where you should be and how you measure up "now" - ask them to be tough. The results may not be flattering (and they may) but you should receive feedback enabling you to excel in residency by strengthening your weaknesses and building on the rest. The book stuff is easy, and if you forget - look it up! The harder part is knowing how to integrate the years of medical knowledge into treatment, patient care and patient education.
 
To resurrect a partially dead thread, I also hate when attendings interrupt you every other sentence. Not to add something useful, but to correct your presentation. Amazingly, most of the time this happens, it's to ask or tell you to add some bit of information that you are about to say. I'm screaming in my head please just wait one d%#! second and I'll tell you the differential. Today just sucked the life out of me. Wish I had chosen a different career. Nothing is worth this bs. Summary of the day:
1) Attending makes me look like an idiot
2) Resident yells at me for wanting to pick up a patient
3) Patient family member yells at me for a stupid decision made by residents
4) Wrote notes no one will read
5) Worked my ass off to have another attending not bother to write an evaluation
6) Nurse yells at me for writing a note at the only open station because she doesn't want to stand.
 
StupidRoo said:
To resurrect a partially dead thread, I also hate when attendings interrupt you every other sentence. Not to add something useful, but to correct your presentation. Amazingly, most of the time this happens, it's to ask or tell you to add some bit of information that you are about to say. I'm screaming in my head please just wait one d%#! second and I'll tell you the differential. Today just sucked the life out of me. Wish I had chosen a different career. Nothing is worth this bs. Summary of the day:
1) Attending makes me look like an idiot
2) Resident yells at me for wanting to pick up a patient
3) Patient family member yells at me for a stupid decision made by residents
4) Wrote notes no one will read
5) Worked my ass off to have another attending not bother to write an evaluation
6) Nurse yells at me for writing a note at the only open station because she doesn't want to stand.
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Believe it or not your notes get read a lot more than you'd think. Whenever myself or any of the other RTs or RNs really needed a thorough history on a patient, we'd dig up the medical student note. They would often have things that the resident or attending completely neglected that would sometimes turn out to be critical pieces of information.
 
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Mad Jack said:
Believe it or not your notes get read a lot more than you'd think. Whenever myself or any of the other RTs or RNs really needed a thorough history on a patient, we'd dig up the medical student note. They would often have things that the resident or attending completely neglected that would sometimes turn out to be critical pieces of information.
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wait what
they should have usage statistics on these things so we can tell. all this data they track and they don't give us something useful like this
 
Psai said:
wait what
they should have usage statistics on these things so we can tell. all this data they track and they don't give us something useful like this
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Sad thing is we never knew any of the students by name, so their work may as well have been anonymous and they never got any credit or thanks for anything. I'd say maybe twice a week I'd go digging through med student notes to look for something obscure that wasn't documented anywhere else in the chart, and it was literally a lifesaver or massive time saver in a couple cases.
 
Now that I'm on a consult service I have to be careful about signing notes before talking with an attending. I've had a few overzealous residents implement my plan despite the note clearly being written by a medical student and not yet being cosigned by an attending.
 
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Now that my notes count, I really don't know why I made such a big deal about it as a med student.

Really not very exciting.

Although I remember my first day of residency, I was amazed by the fact that I could order a chest xray and a tech would come 10 minutes later and shoot the film. That was cool for a few minutes.
 
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VisionaryTics said:
Now that my notes count, I really don't know why I made such a big deal about it as a med student.

Really not very exciting.

Although I remember my first day of residency, I was amazed by the fact that I could order a chest xray and a tech would come 10 minutes later and shoot the film. That was cool for a few minutes.
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Probably feels better than feeling ignored though amirite
 
Psai said:
Probably feels better than feeling ignored though amirite
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As a med student, you wish you could put in orders and do notes.

Then as an intern, you feel like a note/order monkey. I wish I could do more tubes and tonsils and septums.

Next year, I'll feel sick of tubes and tonsils, and wish I was doing more thyroids and neck dissections.

It doesn't stop, not until you the bossman.
 
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