How competitive is CAP fellowship compared to general adult programs?

[Bearrie]

I'm sure it varies, but in general is it the same, more or less competitive than adult residency? For instance, suppose you were offered an interview at X adult program and ranked them highly but did not match. Would you also be likely to get a interview? Would you have a better chance to match?

Also, could someone give me a general idea of the selectiveness of the major NY programs? Which other northeast programs are "good?"

Finally, what do they really look for? I have some quality research but several papers in review etc. Would I be at a major disadvantage for fast-tracking vs waiting a year? I don't imagine they care too much about Step 3? Are there programs that require medical license? How does this work if your license is put of state?

Finally, what do they actually "see" from your 2 years of residency? I imagine of course PD letter and CAP eligibility form. Do they get a copy of acgme milestones from ADS? I'm guessing not narrative comments unless specifically included in PD letter? How important are med school deans letter and transcript?

Very sorry for so many questions but a bit confused by this process!

Thanks so much.


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[SmallBird]

I'm sure it varies, but in general is it the same, more or less competitive than adult residency? For instance, suppose you were offered an interview at X adult program and ranked them highly but did not match. Would you also be likely to get a interview? Would you have a better chance to match?

Also, could someone give me a general idea of the selectiveness of the major NY programs? Which other northeast programs are "good?"

Finally, what do they really look for? I have some quality research but several papers in review etc. Would I be at a major disadvantage for fast-tracking vs waiting a year? I don't imagine they care too much about Step 3? Are there programs that require medical license? How does this work if your license is put of state?

Finally, what do they actually "see" from your 2 years of residency? I imagine of course PD letter and CAP eligibility form. Do they get a copy of acgme milestones from ADS? I'm guessing not narrative comments unless specifically included in PD letter? How important are med school deans letter and transcript?

Very sorry for so many questions but a bit confused by this process!

Thanks so much.


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It is hard to believe how uncompetitive it is. I don't know I have a good handle on the reasons but it must at least partially be related to relatively fewer people competing for more slots. You are very likely to get interviews at programs that did not interview you for adult residency, and have a higher chance of matching.

Northeast programs:
- Yale: I go here. I adored the adult residency. The fellowship is solid but just not on the same level (more work, call, less opportunity for individualized educational activities). Mentorship is excellent, many great people here (Wendy Silverman is a huge name in anxiety, Fred Volkmar and Jamie McPartland in ASD, Jim Leckman and Michael Bloch in tourette's/OCD, great trauma program, great forensics program, etc etc).
- Brown: Increasingly popular, better location than New Haven, more affordable than Boston, also a large research powerhouse and probably the biggest clinical practice of any of the northeast programs (free-standing child psych hospital). Appear to be able to offer more opportunities for individual experiences, but also known to have a tough work load.
- MGH/McClean: I interviewed here and really liked it, and people I know here seem happy. I honestly think the famous people up at there psychopharm clinic are way out of the mainstream and have poor clinical heuristics. But McClean looks like a great training environment and the program director is awesome.
- NYU: Very popular, also pretty intense workload I believe, I know some folks there and they give mixed reviews. I think of the New York programs it gets the most attention from applicants but to be honest at AACAP, other conferences NYU is really not on the radar to the same extent as other northeast programs (in terms of people who are presenting, receiving recognition, etc.). I'm not saying that is what you should value but there you go.
- Cornell/Columbia: Big program, quite busy and lots of commuting, but some really cool experiences owing to have three campuses. Catherine Lord up in Westchester is also a huge deal in ASD and I believe fellows actually get to work with her.

Also worth mentioning on the West Coast:
- UCSF: The fellowship has not until recently been super popular but their neuroscience department is outstanding and I believe the whole department is experiencing a meteoric rise. Lots of people want to be in that area and increasingly be part of the program. I don't have much first hand info on what the actual experience is like.

Other NY programs are Mt Sinai (Which I believe is very uncompetitive) and probably a few more that I don't know anything about.

They do not look at your ACGME milestones. Good letters, research activities, advocacy work, committees, these types of things count at this stage of the process.

Good luck!

 

[Bearrie]

Thanks so much! So letters are very important? Most programs allow 2 letters aside from PD letter no? How important is PD letter? Is it summerative of everything like medicine like the deans letter from medical school or more his/her opinion of you? Can we submit more than 2?

Any thoughts on asking your chair you know very well but not really sure what she/he would write (say youve had disagreements in past but know chair "likes" you?)

As for last 2, I have one child letter. I was thinking a very adult attending or research letter would be better than a mediocre child attending letter? Would you go w research or adult attending?

Finally, suppose through no fault of your own an attending asks you to draft the letter which they would then edit? And you really needed this letter? What sorts of things would you include?

Thanks again!!


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[OldPsychDoc]

...How important is PD letter? Is it summerative of everything like medicine like the deans letter from medical school or more his/her opinion of you?...

Basically required. And both.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

Even if you successfully avoid your PD's input in your application, the child program will send us a training summary form with enough added questions to get a good handle on our opinion. No one hires anyone without asking their PD how they did in training. To do so would be fairly irresponsible.

 

[Bearrie]

Hmm didnt mean to imply I didnt want her opinion. Actually do. Just wasn't sure of what exactly is seen from first two years. So if not milestones, then just letters? Also any thoughts on my question about strong letter from adult attending vs mediocre from another child? How many letters should be child? Any thoughts also on letters from department chair and research supervisor?


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[MacDonaldTriad]

I think strength is more important than who. Probably one should be a child psychiatrist but really, the adult attendings are the ones you have worked with the most. Chairs are always good, but often know residents the least.

 

[masterofmonkeys]

I think strength is more important than who. Probably one should be a child psychiatrist but really, the adult attendings are the ones you have worked with the most. Chairs are always good, but often know residents the least.

Quoted for truth. We expect you to suck at child and there is a LOT to learn that's different from Adult. I'd much rather a very strong Adult letter that can speak to specific strengths than a mediocre child letter that says 'well, he's nice and likes kids'. Chances of you working with a single child attending long and in depth enough to be able to write you a strong letter is low unless you had a program with a very strong child experience pathway.