How difficult is a match into Orthopedic surgery?

[sonofva]

True. The overwhelming majority of students change their minds atleast once even if they end up with their original plan. I realise you always wanted to be ortho and you have never wavered, but your example represents the 0.01%. The other 99.99% changed at some point. smartass.

i will say that most of the orthopods i have met generally knew they wanted to do ortho from the get go. i will also say that the majority of the dude-bro contingent in my class came in gunning for ortho, and it seems most of them have already changed their minds. most of these guys decided that they would be happy with IM, so long as they could work on brewski drinking and sweet arm pumps on the weekends during medical school.

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[DarkHorizon]

i will say that most of the orthopods i have met generally knew they wanted to do ortho from the get go. i will also say that the majority of the dude-bro contingent in my class came in gunning for ortho, and it seems most of them have already changed their minds. most of these guys decided that they would be happy with IM, so long as they could work on brewski drinking and sweet arm pumps on the weekends during medical school.

Your class has a lot of Ortho gunners, including a few girls, that is what I have gathered from speaking to people in your class and a few surgical meetings and whatnot.

 

[Nickelpennykid]

i will say that most of the orthopods i have met generally knew they wanted to do ortho from the get go. i will also say that the majority of the dude-bro contingent in my class came in gunning for ortho, and it seems most of them have already changed their minds. most of these guys decided that they would be happy with IM, so long as they could work on brewski drinking and sweet arm pumps on the weekends during medical school.

Most people change their minds after step one dominates them haha.

I have the numbers somewhere from when I was applying...as soon as I find them ill post it

 

[slammer922]

Most people change their minds after step one dominates them haha.

I have the numbers somewhere from when I was applying...as soon as I find them ill post it

It bugs me that aoa doesn't chart outcomes from match.
Does anyone have any insight to why? The nrmp charting fascinates me and is a great tool for ms's. Why doesn't the aka follow suit?

I just feel like I know way more bout the usmle and agcme than the comlex, and that just ain't right

 

[Dharma]

I'm not sure if this has been answered, but I'm just curious to hear what some have to say. How do those who complete such AOA ortho residencies fare in the market following their training?

 

[sonofva]

Your class has a lot of Ortho gunners, including a few girls, that is what I have gathered from speaking to people in your class and a few surgical meetings and whatnot.

i don't really understand why though. maybe they all have more experience shadowing ortho docs, or working in the ortho field than i do. at this point in my career i don't really have any frame of reference to say "i love and want to do ortho." i've worked nursing and have done shadowing in IM, FM, Gsurg, and ER. so i feel like i can have some idea about working in those fields for the rest of my days. but i really can't know if i'd like to set bones for my entire career.

so i don't see how all the ortho gunners in my class would be any different, or how they could be so definitively drawn to something that is essentially an unknown to most of us.

 

[hanky1982]

I'm not sure if this has been answered, but I'm just curious to hear what some have to say. How do those who complete such AOA ortho residencies fare in the market following their training?

Equal as their MD counterparts. Often see them in the same practice working side-by-side. Of course there are fewer graduates, so numbers wise there just aren't as many. But with regards to salary, privileges, scope of practice, etc... they are the same.

 

[hanky1982]

i don't really understand why though. maybe they all have more experience shadowing ortho docs, or working in the ortho field than i do. at this point in my career i don't really have any frame of reference to say "i love and want to do ortho." i've worked nursing and have done shadowing in IM, FM, Gsurg, and ER. so i feel like i can have some idea about working in those fields for the rest of my days. but i really can't know if i'd like to set bones for my entire career.

so i don't see how all the ortho gunners in my class would be any different, or how they could be so definitively drawn to something that is essentially an unknown to most of us.

They could be drawn to the lifestyle and image of ortho and not so much of the nuts and bolts (no pun intended) of the field.

 

[slammer922]

They could be drawn to the lifestyle and image of ortho and not so much of the nuts and bolts (no pun intended) of the field.

I would think most ortho gunners are drawn to the sports medicine aspect of the specialty.

 

[womp]

I would think most ortho gunners are drawn to the sports medicine aspect of the specialty.

There's always Sports Medicine for the < 230 Step 1

 

[Led Zep]

Ok, please, this post is just meant to give me some information. Please don't judge just help me out with some info.

What is an average step 1 score? What kind of step 1 score would be needed to match ortho?

If some of you guys (or girls) that have matched ortho would like to comment, what were your step 1 scores?

Also (and please don't judge) for AOA residencies is your step 1 considered or your comlex or both? Do you have to take both?

This is all new to me but I'm probably going to be matriculating in fall 2012 and would love some info....


Thank you all very much!!!!! (P.S. show some love to the guy who started the thread)

 

[Bacchus]

Most people change their minds after step one dominates them haha.

I have the numbers somewhere from when I was applying...as soon as I find them ill post it

This is the thing...

You open First Aid and there is a chart with averages for most matchable specialties (if not all). I don't think there's anything like this for us.

I don't know what a 400 gets you into vs. a 550, 600, or 650+.

 

[ShyRem]

Ok, please, this post is just meant to give me some information. Please don't judge just help me out with some info.

What is an average step 1 score? What kind of step 1 score would be needed to match ortho?

If some of you guys (or girls) that have matched ortho would like to comment, what were your step 1 scores?

Also (and please don't judge) for AOA residencies is your step 1 considered or your comlex or both? Do you have to take both?

This is all new to me but I'm probably going to be matriculating in fall 2012 and would love some info....


Thank you all very much!!!!! (P.S. show some love to the guy who started the thread)

Please read post #4 on page 1.

I think at this point you should concentrate on getting into med school and just doing the best you can. Your questions are quite premature. It's like asking "what kind of MCAT do I need to get into ______"? You won't study any harder for one school or another. You should just study.

Now one step at a time. Concentrate on actually getting in. Pre-osteo can help more with that problem.

 

[countthestars]

There is no magic formula of x score = residency. I know friends who have gotten 250+ on the USMLE and they failed to match ortho (I know 5 in fact). I ALSO know friends that have 220's on their USMLE and did match.

As far as the osteopathic world...COMLEX is whats important for residency. It is the osteopathic board exam. I don't see why PDs are at all interested in your USMLE score (unless of course you fail or score terribly low on it). If you are applying to DO ONLY programs, then there is NO need to take USMLE.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

There is no magic formula of x score = residency. I know friends who have gotten 250+ on the USMLE and they failed to match ortho (I know 5 in fact). I ALSO know friends that have 220's on their USMLE and did match.

As far as the osteopathic world...COMLEX is whats important for residency. It is the osteopathic board exam. I don't see why PDs are at all interested in your USMLE score (unless of course you fail or score terribly low on it). If you are applying to DO ONLY programs, then there is NO need to take USMLE.

Thanks Capt. Obvious.

 

[countthestars]

Thanks Capt. Obvious.

Hey I'm just replying to Led Zep's questions!

 

[sideways]

This is the thing...

You open First Aid and there is a chart with averages for most matchable specialties (if not all). I don't think there's anything like this for us.

I don't know what a 400 gets you into vs. a 550, 600, or 650+.

Because the DO world doesn't operate like that. I've heard of some 500 or 600 cutoffs, but outside of that, it's "did you rotate and do they like you." So in that sense, if you're sort of dumb, it's probably wiser to go DO and pray that you make a good impression than go MD and get your ass handed to you on boards and lose all hope.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Because the DO world doesn't operate like that. I've heard of some 500 or 600 cutoffs, but outside of that, it's "did you rotate and do they like you." So in that sense, if you're sort of dumb, it's probably wiser to go DO and pray that you make a good impression than go MD and get your ass handed to you on boards and lose all hope.

I wouldn't say it's that clear-cut for DO ortho.

I think it's very competitive, to the point that showing up with a 450 (and even 500) and being super likeable isn't gonna cut it. It's happened to some I know.

However, DO ortho may well be more forgiving than MD ortho.

 

[sideways]

I wouldn't say it's that clear-cut for DO ortho.

I think it's very competitive, to the point that showing up with a 450 (and even 500) and being super likeable isn't gonna cut it. It's happened to some I know.

However, DO ortho may well be more forgiving than MD ortho.

I agree.

 

[hanky1982]

In general, 600+ is where you want to be, and this is where most of the competition will be. Of course, every year with mid-5's match, but that is more of the exception than the rule. To be safe, try to have your step 1 above the magical 600 mark.

 

[slammer922]

There's always Sports Medicine for the < 230 Step 1

Yes but most sports enthusiast (IMO) like the arthroscopic/team physician/operative aspect of sports medicine... not the "jr sprang his ankle playing 4 square lets take him to our FM sports med doc" non operative aspect of sports med.

There is no magic formula of x score = residency. I know friends who have gotten 250+ on the USMLE and they failed to match ortho (I know 5 in fact). I ALSO know friends that have 220's on their USMLE and did match.
As far as the osteopathic world...COMLEX is whats important for residency. It is the osteopathic board exam. I don't see why PDs are at all interested in your USMLE score (unless of course you fail or score terribly low on it). If you are applying to DO ONLY programs, then there is NO need to take USMLE.

Wait. So you know someone who scored 250+ on USMLE and didnt match ACGME or AOA ortho?

Because your post suggests you know a 5 ppl who scored 250 on usmle and didnt match ortho, but know someone who matched ortho with a 220. (since this is a how difficult it is to match to ortho thread)

I would think that AOA PD's also know that the COMLEX has some crazy funky questions which dont necessary reflect on the applicant (which is my theory on the "dont worry about scores but work hard on rotations"), so having an amazing USMLE score will do nothing but help. Take the USMLE if you are testing well on it, from my research it does nothing but open more doors.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Yes but most sports enthusiast (IMO) like the arthroscopic/team physician/operative aspect of sports medicine... not the "jr sprang his ankle playing 4 square lets take him to our FM sports med doc" non operative aspect of sports med.




Wait. So you know someone who scored 250+ on USMLE and didnt match ACGME or AOA ortho?

Because your post suggests you know a 5 ppl who scored 250 on usmle and didnt match ortho, but know someone who matched ortho with a 220. (since this is a how difficult it is to match to ortho thread)

I would think that AOA PD's also know that the COMLEX has some crazy funky questions which dont necessary reflect on the applicant (which is my theory on the "dont worry about scores but work hard on rotations"), so having an amazing USMLE score will do nothing but help. Take the USMLE if you are testing well on it, from my research it does nothing but open more doors.

I don't know if AOA Ortho PDs will look at USMLE. I know the few AOA Anesthesia PDs I'd spoken with didn't care about my USMLE.

It could also be that those 5 250 USMLE'rs had a worse COMLEX and worse audition than the 5 220'ers... and those AOA PDs will be judging you based on COMLEX + Audition... USMLE likely doesn't play a role for them, but again, I don't know THAT much about AOA Ortho.

 

[Bacchus]

Because the DO world doesn't operate like that. I've heard of some 500 or 600 cutoffs, but outside of that, it's "did you rotate and do they like you." So in that sense, if you're sort of dumb, it's probably wiser to go DO and pray that you make a good impression than go MD and get your ass handed to you on boards and lose all hope.

I guess its good I'm semi-charming then.

 

[countthestars]

Wait. So you know someone who scored 250+ on USMLE and didnt match ACGME or AOA ortho?

Because your post suggests you know a 5 ppl who scored 250 on usmle and didnt match ortho, but know someone who matched ortho with a 220. (since this is a how difficult it is to match to ortho thread)

I would think that AOA PD's also know that the COMLEX has some crazy funky questions which dont necessary reflect on the applicant (which is my theory on the "dont worry about scores but work hard on rotations"), so having an amazing USMLE score will do nothing but help. Take the USMLE if you are testing well on it, from my research it does nothing but open more doors.

Yes. I know 5 people who scored 250+ and failed to match ortho. 2 of them were form a Caribbean school. One of them also failed to match general surgery as a backup and ALSO was out of luck with the scramble. The other did match into general surgery as a back up. 2 others I know who failed to match were DO students who also had great COMLEX scores. One student opted out of the DO match and applied to MD ortho spots only. He is going to be doing a DO rotating internship next year reapplying in the match next year. The other DO student applied to DO ortho and failed to get in with a great COMLEX and USMLE. The last friend I know was a US MD student with a 250+ who did not match ortho this year.

Getting about a 550 or 600+ will get your foot in the door, but your going to have really bust your butt during your rotations because EVERYONE that's trying for ortho has good grades. You have to be on your game 110% during your rotations, being friendly, intelligent and fun.

 

[slammer922]

Yes. I know 5 people who scored 250+ and failed to match ortho. 2 of them were form a Caribbean school. One of them also failed to match general surgery as a backup and ALSO was out of luck with the scramble. The other did match into general surgery as a back up. 2 others I know who failed to match were DO students who also had great COMLEX scores. One student opted out of the DO match and applied to MD ortho spots only. He is going to be doing a DO rotating internship next year reapplying in the match next year. The other DO student applied to DO ortho and failed to get in with a great COMLEX and USMLE. The last friend I know was a US MD student with a 250+ who did not match ortho this year.

Getting about a 550 or 600+ will get your foot in the door, but your going to have really bust your butt during your rotations because EVERYONE that's trying for ortho has good grades. You have to be on your game 110% during your rotations, being friendly, intelligent and fun.

crazy interesting. thank you for the clarification

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Yes. I know 5 people who scored 250+ and failed to match ortho. 2 of them were form a Caribbean school. One of them also failed to match general surgery as a backup and ALSO was out of luck with the scramble. The other did match into general surgery as a back up. 2 others I know who failed to match were DO students who also had great COMLEX scores. One student opted out of the DO match and applied to MD ortho spots only. He is going to be doing a DO rotating internship next year reapplying in the match next year. The other DO student applied to DO ortho and failed to get in with a great COMLEX and USMLE. The last friend I know was a US MD student with a 250+ who did not match ortho this year.

Getting about a 550 or 600+ will get your foot in the door, but your going to have really bust your butt during your rotations because EVERYONE that's trying for ortho has good grades. You have to be on your game 110% during your rotations, being friendly, intelligent and fun.

MD Ortho is extremely competitive. Best shot is being Mr. 250 AND a USMD student if you want MD Ortho. I know of some who did well and are USMDs but still didn't land Ortho. Settled for Gen Surg instead. It's just THAT tough.

 

[DarkHorizon]

MD Ortho is extremely competitive. Best shot is being Mr. 250 AND a USMD student if you want MD Ortho. I know of some who did well and are USMDs but still didn't land Ortho. Settled for Gen Surg instead. It's just THAT tough.

Its tough, but doable as an MD, statistically, if you score a 230+ you are very much in the running as long as you are not picky about where you want to be.

 

[sideways]

I guess its good I'm semi-charming then.

Could be a double-edged sword. It may get you into ortho. But then you're in ortho.

 

[Bacchus]

Could be a double-edged sword. It may get you into ortho. But then you're in ortho.

Eew. I don't want ortho.

 

[naus]

There is no magic formula of x score = residency. I know friends who have gotten 250+ on the USMLE and they failed to match ortho (I know 5 in fact).

This is why you go to an MD school if you want to do ortho.

It's hard to imagine knowing five 250s not matching ortho from an MD school. Everyone in my school who had 250+ and wanted ortho matched to their top 3 ortho choices.

250 Step 1 = 1.5 std deviation from the mean. No small feat.

The average score to match ortho is around 234-238.

 

[patel2]

Let's say you just do okay on the comlex, but get like a 250 on the USMLE, and you want to try your hand at some competitive DO residencies like ortho before the MD match.

Will DO residencies consider your USMLE scores if you choose to provide them with it?

 

[DarkHorizon]

Let's say you just do okay on the comlex, but get like a 250 on the USMLE, and you want to try your hand at some competitive DO residencies like ortho before the MD match.

Will DO residencies consider your USMLE scores if you choose to provide them with it?

you can't possibly just do OK on the comlex if you hit a 250+ on the usmle

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

you can't possibly just do OK on the comlex if you hit a 250+ on the usmle

Sure you can.

You could suck at OPP.

 

[hanky1982]

Let's say you just do okay on the comlex, but get like a 250 on the USMLE, and you want to try your hand at some competitive DO residencies like ortho before the MD match.

Will DO residencies consider your USMLE scores if you choose to provide them with it?

All I can speak from is personal experience (recently matched AOA ortho, and went on a multitude of interviews). During my interviews my board scores rarely came up, and if they did, they were curious to my COMLEX score (which was 600+). They did not ask about my USMLE (which would have been fairly competitive for MD ortho). So they might consider it if you have a very strong USMLE and a weak COMLEX, but all the other competition has COMLEX (some have USMLE some don't), thus they will most likely judge you based on this test. It is a simple way of leveling the playing field and comparing you equally against the other applicants.

 

[AlmostAnMD]

I'll probably be attending PCOM and I wanted to know if anyone had any insight, is it a difficult match or what?

Please don't burn me too bad guys....

So did this guy match ortho