how important is step2 for psych??

[letsgomedical]

I am an osteopathic medical student and I took only comlex level I last year.
I signed up for USMLE step 2 and I just took NBME form 6 and got a score of 212.
I took NBME form 4 about 2 weeks ago and got 230, but it was self-paced so I decided to not count that score (or -20 points at least...)
I realized the passing score has been raised to 209 for step 2 starting this month and i'm feeling very uneasy about this test....
I have my step 2 in 4 days and i'm debating whether or not to cancel it.
I guess my options are

1) risk failing step 2 but just take it on 22nd for the sake of applying early (not feeling confident at all after that 212 on NBME 6)
2) just not take step 2 at all and apply with only COMLEX score
3) postpone step 2 to August and apply late to MD programs (or apply early and then report step 2 score when it gets released... if that is possible. I'm not even sure if it's worth the wait, considering that I will be doing my rotations through August and won't have that much time to study)

Any feedback on your experience would be appreciated!!

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[Darkskies]

I apologize for bumping an old thread but I was interested in this situation as well . Besides, no one replied when the creator of the thread made the post.

 

[Darkskies]

Hate bumping this up again but can anyone provide some input?

 

[barzan]

being ECFMG certified for an IMG is IMP for applying, but upon my readings to the NRMP report it seems flexible for AMG

 

[TexasPhysician]

I barely released step 2 before the rank list deadline. None of the DO's in my program took step 2. Many MD's I know didn't even take step 2 before the rank list deadline. This may hurt someone at select programs, but for the most part, emphasis has been on step/comlex 1.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

I barely released step 2 before the rank list deadline. None of the DO's in my program took step 2. Many MD's I know didn't even take step 2 before the rank list deadline. This may hurt someone at select programs, but for the most part, emphasis has been on step/comlex 1.

As an alternative perspective, we have "demoted" or left unranked candidates without a passing Step 2 (either flavor) before the ranking deadline, particularly if their Step 1 is marginal. We don't want to take the chance on someone who is at high risk to be ineligible to start residency, or who looks to have more than average difficulty with passing tests.

 

[Darkskies]

It appears that based on the consensus the step 2 exam is not nearly as important as the step 1 when applying for residencies. As a DO student I've taken the COMLEX and am trying to decide whether to take the USMLE step 1 or 2 during third year to maximize my opportunities when applying for residencies. It just seems like it's going to be a tough workload trying to juggle rotations and studying for the step 1 so I was wondering if it would be a more feasible option for me to just study for the step 2 and try blowing it out of the water at the end of third year instead of taking the step 1. Would everyone here say that doing so wouldn't really be much of an advantage if I only have a COMLEX level 1 score? Would it be of much more use to me to discipline myself and somehow manage both rotations and study for the USMLE step 1(which I would take in early January or late December)?

 

[Jalapeño King]

It depends on where you want to go. Many residency programs do accept the COMLEX, and given that the field is not very competitive, you shouldn't have difficulty matching at least somewhere without the USMLE. Some programs only accept the USMLE, so if you want to go to one of these, obviously you'd better take it. I never took the USMLE as I didn't see the point in stressing out over another exam so I limited my application to programs that accepted the COMLEX, and I received plenty of interviews. However, I didn't get invited to some of the more reputable programs I applied to, so I can't rule out the possibility that certain programs may give preference to those who take the USMLE, although it is probably more likely that I just wasn't as competitive as other applicants.

 

[HarryMTieboutMD]

As a general rule, people who have to make decisions on an applicant pool LOVE standardized test scores, even if they purport not to, never scored extremely well on tests in their personal, academic history, or openly acknowledge the limitations of the tests themselves. This includes Step 2 (both parts). Anecdotally, most people study less and do better on Step 2 anyway, so study for it and get it done earlier. Otherwise you will likely be nervous trying to rationalize why it might not matter at a particular program. Play it safe, study for both and get them out of the way early 4th year.

 

[Darkskies]

As a general rule, people who have to make decisions on an applicant pool LOVE standardized test scores, even if they purport not to, never scored extremely well on tests in their personal, academic history, or openly acknowledge the limitations of the tests themselves. This includes Step 2 (both parts). Anecdotally, most people study less and do better on Step 2 anyway, so study for it and get it done earlier. Otherwise you will likely be nervous trying to rationalize why it might not matter at a particular program. Play it safe, study for both and get them out of the way early 4th year.

So would you say that taking the USMLE step 2 is a viable alternative to taking the USMLE step 1 in 3rd year? Will it improve my chances when applying for residencies or would it be better to somehow do stellar on rotations while also preparing for the USMLE step 1 and taking it in early January(a much more difficult proposition than taking the USMLE step 2 at the end of 3rd year)?

 

[TexasPhysician]

You've completed comlex 1 and 2?

 

[Darkskies]

You've completed comlex 1 and 2?

No. I only have completed COMLEX 1 thus far as I am just in the beginning months of 3rd year/clinical rotations. I don't even know yet what my COMLEX score is. I would have taken the USMLE Step 1 in 2nd year as well but I had some nonacademic issues that came up and really affected me(and might even be continuing to affect me). I believe I can do well on the USMLE Step 1 provided I can be disciplined and if I had more free time as I scored a 32 on the MCAT and have always done well on standardized exams.

 

[HarryMTieboutMD]

So would you say that taking the USMLE step 2 is a viable alternative to taking the USMLE step 1 in 3rd year? Will it improve my chances when applying for residencies or would it be better to somehow do stellar on rotations while also preparing for the USMLE step 1 and taking it in early January(a much more difficult proposition than taking the USMLE step 2 at the end of 3rd year)?

I would take Step 2 CK shortly after the end of 3rd year. I didn't realize you hadn't taken 1 yet. Find some time to study/refresh and definitely take it before applying. The national average is getting closer and closer 230, so the stakes are getting higher. I have no idea what any comlex scores mean/translate to, but a strong Step 1 performance can only help you.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

I forget who asked the question (NRMP, FREDA, ADS, our own annual report?), but we were asked what our DO average COMLEX scores were. We pulled the files of the DO residents currently in our program and all of them took USMLE. I know we accept COMLEX, so admittedly, this was partly caused by a bias towards USMLE, but not as much as you might think. We interview plenty of COMLEX only DO students. I can only conclude that the better DO students are taking USMLE. Just food for thought.

 

[TexasPhysician]

I forget who asked the question (NRMP, FREDA, ADS, our own annual report?), but we were asked what our DO average COMLEX scores were. We pulled the files of the DO residents currently in our program and all of them took USMLE. I know we accept COMLEX, so admittedly, this was partly caused by a bias towards USMLE, but not as much as you might think. We interview plenty of COMLEX only DO students. I can only conclude that the better DO students are taking USMLE. Just food for thought.

My program is 100% AMG. Our DO's did not take usmle although we only have a few.

I wonder if there is objective data on this.

Regardless of intelligence, no way any hypothetical DO students wants to be thousands more in debt to take tests that are not required. If anything maybe DO's who opt in to extra debt and days of voluntary tests should be downgraded for a lack of intelligence (financially at least).

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

My program is 100% AMG. Our DO's did not take usmle although we only have a few.

I wonder if there is objective data on this.

Regardless of intelligence, no way any hypothetical DO students wants to be thousands more in debt to take tests that are not required. If anything maybe DO's who opt in to extra debt and days of voluntary tests should be downgraded for a lack of intelligence (financially at least).

"Thousands" is a bit dramatic.

 

[TexasPhysician]

"Thousands" is a bit dramatic.

I may be a little far out from the exams to recall cost. What do you think the average cost of steps 1, 2, study materials, travel, etc is for all that? Do some DO's opt for cs as well?

Minimum of $1500 right? Not to mention the cost of your time.

This is just my opinion, but medical training involves a good deal of unnecessary tests/hoops. Taking an additional because it may help at a couple select programs only if you perform well just doesn't make sense to me . I am a US MD though, so maybe I'm too biased to be counted.

 

[Tizoc]

Do some DO's opt for cs as well?

It's extremely rare if residencies ask for it. My dean can only think of one DO student in the past 12 years who was required to take USMLE step 2 CS for their residency.

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

I may be a little far out from the exams to recall cost. What do you think the average cost of steps 1, 2, study materials, travel, etc is for all that? Do some DO's opt for cs as well?

Minimum of $1500 right? Not to mention the cost of your time.

This is just my opinion, but medical training involves a good deal of unnecessary tests/hoops. Taking an additional because it may help at a couple select programs only if you perform well just doesn't make sense to me . I am a US MD though, so maybe I'm too biased to be counted.

The ones that take CS I would agree calling them crazy. Other than that it's probably 1-1.1k if you take both steps, the study materials majorly overlap with COMLEX. The time portion I would agree is probably the main time suckage. I think it's a give and take decision. Can you do above average on the USMLE? Are the programs/area you're looking at as open to the COMLEX? If you're doing STEP 1 are you sure you've ruled out other specialties that value USMLE>>COMLEX? I really think taking the USMLE as a DO student is highly individualized.

 

[Red Beard]

I am no PD, but I highly doubt you wouldn't get into SOME psychiatry residency with decent COMLEX scores and an otherwise compelling application. I don't see the great advantage in have a single marginal USMLE score, and you still need a full set of COMLEX exams for licensure, so I would put my energy and resources into that and do well on COMLEX 2 early so you can show programs "I am consistent and will be , for sure, eligible for a training license by your start date."

And, generally, for future DO candidates stumbling on this thread....just suck it up and take USMLE 1 right after second year if you are at all thinking about doing USMLE. It's hard to get that much time ever again to study for an exam, you have to study for COMLEX at that time anyway, you can use the big expensive qbanks for both exams, and its easy for some of that basic science stuff to leak out while you are in clinical rotations making it harder to do as we'll further down the road.