How legitimate of a risk is failing out?

[notbobtrustme]

I'm pretty close to being that second guy and I'm ranked pretty high in my class.. So I'd say yes. Yes because undergrad has nothing to do with med school.

Good on you but most people would agree that your the exception and not the norm.

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[ortnakas]

It really depends on the individual.

I have seen people w/ 3.6-3.7/30 fail classes and then students who have lower stats get top the top 30% of class.

Agreed. If you get into medical school, that means your medical school thinks you have the ability to succeed there.

I don't think pre-med statistics are as predictive of med school statistics as most of SDN would like to believe-- especially in students who don't go straight from undergrad to med school; a lot can change for better and/or for worse in a student's situation in a few years.

 

[MedWonk]

Hey man could I please get your thoughts on UMASS in general? Any advice? thoughts on classes and faculty? I'm an incoming M1 this Fall. Thanks!!

Sure. PM me with any questions you have.

 

[Bobcat18]

OP how well you wanna do in med school determines how much work you'll need to put in. Wanna be in top 10/20% of your class? You're going to want to put in a lot of time ~60-70 hours / week. If you just wanna pass- treat it as a 9-5 job. Med school isn't that hard to just pass... Don't stress and I'm sure you'll be just fine. Good luck!

 

[seminoma]

I'm curious but why doesn't it? I feel like all the main bio courses are very similar at any university basically. You memorize in different ways and go at multiple choice questions that range from easy to hard. Many questions require higher order thinking but I had plenty of questions like that in first year bio all the way to advanced biochemistry. If I studied a lot I got an A. If I studied a moderate amount I got a crappy grade. Isn't medical school fairly similar to that?

I thought the same thing when I was a premed. It's not something I can explain. You'll just have to see for yourself.

OP how well you wanna do in med school determines how much work you'll need to put in. Wanna be in top 10/20% of your class? You're going to want to put in a lot of time ~60-70 hours / week. If you just wanna pass- treat it as a 9-5 job. Med school isn't that hard to just pass... Don't stress and I'm sure you'll be just fine. Good luck!

Yeah, a 9-5 job for studying and lecture time combined. As @notbobtrustme pointed out, perhaps I am an exception, but my personal opinion is that med school is not difficult to pass. I think a significant amount of effort goes into improving a passing grade (say 70%) to an 80% and obviously even more effort to >90%. To be clear, my opinion is that there is way less difference between an 80% student and a 90% student than there is between a 70% student and an 80% student.

 

[abolt18]

Just to chime in, I had a 3.34 cGPA (2.19 after freshman year, 3.6 average the rest of college), 28 MCAT that I studied 9 days for(did practice tests and reviewed weak subjects is all). I sit easily into the top quarter of my class, though I'm FAR from the smartest. I probably study more than most of my classmates really. Not because I care about how I rank, but simply because I want to know the material. Better you learn it, the better you'll do on boards and less doors are closed to you. I don't go to class but I studied probably on average 10-11 hours a day, including listening to lectures at 2x speed and reading all handouts. More right before a test, less right after a test. I studied Monday through Saturday with Sundays off. I would also echo what seminoma has said above.

 

[dfib slim]

.

 

[dntke1518]

Had an OMM faculty post notes on a "cranial resuscitation technique" to be used during respiratory/cardiac arrest. SMH.

Wow, if there was someone at a code trying to feel the CRI I would flip out. That is utter nonsense.

 

[dfib slim]

.

 

[Goro]

That sound you hear in the distance is me and my PhD faculty colleagues rolling our collective eyes.

Had an OMM faculty post notes on a "cranial resuscitation technique" to be used during respiratory/cardiac arrest. SMH.

 

[LaughingGas]

Just out of curiosity. If OMM is such a bs technique with no scientific evidence, why is it taught at DO medschools?

 

[ZedsDed]

Just out of curiosity. If OMM is such a bs technique with no scientific evidence, why is it taught at DO medschools?

I think that's a bit harsh. There have been publications showing some medical benefits to OMM. But I am curious as to why the continued emphasis on OMM at many DO schools, since so few DOs use it when they practice. Excuse my ignorance!

 

[Goro]

It's part of the dogma, er...doctrine of Osteopathy. It has its uses in building palpatory skills, musculoskeletal issues and some others as well. If it makes doctors more comfortable in touching patients, that's fine too. But craniosacral therapy and Champman's points? No.

I think that's a bit harsh. There have been publications showing some medical benefits to OMM. But I am curious as to why the continued emphasis on OMM at many DO schools, since so few DOs use it when they practice. Excuse my ignorance!

 

[ZedsDed]

It's part of the dogma, er...doctrine of Osteopathy. It has its uses in building palpatory skills, musculoskeletal issues and some others as well. If it makes doctors more comfortable in touching patients, that's fine too. But craniosacral therapy and Champman's points? No.

Does your school teach the latter two techniques? If so, have you brought up your concerns to the powers that be?

 

[Goro]

Chapman's yes, CST, only as an elective, sort of. The PhD faculty have politely raised our concerns, were listened to, and were politely ignored.

Does your school teach the latter two techniques? If so, have you brought up your concerns to the powers that be?

 

[ZedsDed]

Chapman's yes, CST, only as an elective, sort of. The PhD faculty have politely raised our concerns, were listened to, and were politely ignored.

Not surprising. To be fair, I think DO schools get too much flak for holding on to OMM. Academia is almost universally obstinate. Dissent amongst the humanities faculty at Berkeley earns you a lot more than a polite placation.

 

[Goro]

Yeah, I'm luck to be on faculty at a med school. Some UG schools are for diversity in everything except thought.

Not surprising. To be fair, I think DO schools get too much flak for holding on to OMM. Academia is almost universally obstinate. Dissent amongst the humanities faculty at Berkeley earns you a lot more than a polite placation.

 

[MiaMia14]

After starting residency I am now realizing how much free time I actually had in med school. I was an average DO school applicant, and did average/slightly above average in classes. I didn't go to class...probably got to school around 10-11 and left by 6-7 most days. I only studied at school. On weekends before a test I'd spend all day at school but a lot of that was talking/socializing/email/Facebook/anything but studying. If you are spending all day everyday studying and don't have time for anything else, you are doing something wrong.

 

[skeletor06]

After starting residency I am now realizing how much free time I actually had in med school. I was an average DO school applicant, and did average/slightly above average in classes. I didn't go to class...probably got to school around 10-11 and left by 6-7 most days. I only studied at school. On weekends before a test I'd spend all day at school but a lot of that was talking/socializing/email/Facebook/anything but studying. If you are spending all day everyday studying and don't have time for anything else, you are doing something wrong.

Some COMs require attendance at almost all lectures, which is what, ~25 hours a week, give or take? Then you have to study on top of that, plus labs, etc. Say it takes 20 minutes each way to school, so that's another 40 minutes you're losing. If you're a student who doesn't get a lot out of lecture, but is required to go, you're going to be needing to study A LOT on top of your required lecture hours. Time adds up quick when you can't watch videos in your pajamas from home.

 

[MiaMia14]

Some COMs require attendance at almost all lectures, which is what, ~25 hours a week, give or take? Then you have to study on top of that, plus labs, etc. Say it takes 20 minutes each way to school, so that's another 40 minutes you're losing. If you're a student who doesn't get a lot out of lecture, but is required to go, you're going to be needing to study A LOT on top of your required lecture hours. Time adds up quick when you can't watch videos in your pajamas from home.

This is why I always always recommend that flexibility of going or not going to lecture be one of the top priorities in picking a school. I was sure I was going to be a lecture attender before school...first semester I went to every lecture and ended up with C's. Second semester I quit going to class and ended up making A's and B's. You never know how you are going to need to study in med school and it's important to have the option. I would have been extraordinarily miserable during school if I had to do what you just mentioned. If you have the option, don't pick a school that has required lectures.

 

[IlDestriero]

If I went to lecture I learned the material much easier and my review went much quicker. You have to figure out what works best for you. At least 1/3 of the class didn't attend lectures. This was some time ago and lectures weren't available online. I'm sure I would just watch them at 1.4 speed from the comfort of my desk if I was going today.
I think mandatory attendance is ridiculous for adult learners, but for the most part, they made a point to note a lot of things that "we will see again" that always got an ** in he margin of the notes.
The only things that were mandatory in the first 2 years were small group discussions, standardized patients, and micro lab. And you could miss micro lab if you made it up on your own, but you had to sign in.

 

[wjs010]

Somebody said you could try and fail. I have to disagree. If you try really hard and stay on top of studying (including weekends!) you should at least pass. Start off with nothing but school, get comfortable with making the grades you like, then slowly add prioritized extracurricular stuff. I know it sounds scary, but just do that. It's definitely not rocket science. It's all about studying whenever you can, and taking breaks

 

[OsteopathicHopeful]

Just to chime in, I had a 3.34 cGPA (2.19 after freshman year, 3.6 average the rest of college), 28 MCAT that I studied 9 days for(did practice tests and reviewed weak subjects is all). I sit easily into the top quarter of my class, though I'm FAR from the smartest. I probably study more than most of my classmates really. Not because I care about how I rank, but simply because I want to know the material. Better you learn it, the better you'll do on boards and less doors are closed to you. I don't go to class but I studied probably on average 10-11 hours a day, including listening to lectures at 2x speed and reading all handouts. More right before a test, less right after a test. I studied Monday through Saturday with Sundays off. I would also echo what seminoma has said above.

I hope to emulate this...

 

[pmarank]

Somebody said you could try and fail. I have to disagree. If you try really hard and stay on top of studying (including weekends!) you should at least pass. Start off with nothing but school, get comfortable with making the grades you like, then slowly add prioritized extracurricular stuff. I know it sounds scary, but just do that. It's definitely not rocket science. It's all about studying whenever you can, and taking breaks

What about someone that had to study 7 days/wk in ugrad? I got like a 3.6 GPA n 30 MCAT but studied like non-stop pretty much everyday during the semester. Am I screwed?

 

[wjs010]

What about someone that had to study 7 days/wk in ugrad? I got like a 3.6 GPA n 30 MCAT but studied like non-stop pretty much everyday during the semester. Am I screwed?

No not really. You don't need a great mcat to do well, but since you did score well, I'm sure you will do fine. It doesn't really matter how much it takes... As long as you get it done. You'll even see a ton of people saying how little they studied.. For some reason people want their classmates to think they memorize this stuff through osmosis, but that's just not how it works. Just study as much as you need/want and don't worry how much time you put in. You will adjust to the new schedule. Everybody does

 

[chizledfrmstone]

What about someone that had to study 7 days/wk in ugrad? I got like a 3.6 GPA n 30 MCAT but studied like non-stop pretty much everyday during the semester. Am I screwed?

I have seen people with your stats fail and many people with lower stats prosper.

The big question is how malleable are you? If you can sit down and look at your weak points and tweak your methods accordingly then you should be fine.

Generally the people who REALLY struggle are the ones who don't have good study habits and refuse to try other methods.

Many people with MCATs in the 25 range have gotten through med school. If they can do it then so can you!

 

[Goro]

You'll probably have a rough few weeks at the start of med school while you adapt to what is your optimal learning style. Then you'll do OK.

The key is not studying more, or harder, but better.

No not really. You don't need a great mcat to do well, but since you did score well, I'm sure you will do fine. It doesn't really matter how much it takes... As long as you get it done. You'll even see a ton of people saying how little they studied.. For some reason people want their classmates to think they memorize this stuff through osmosis, but that's just not how it works. Just study as much as you need/want and don't worry how much time you put in. You will adjust to the new schedule. Everybody does

 

[pmarank]

I have seen people with your stats fail and many people with lower stats prosper.

The big question is how malleable are you? If you can sit down and look at your weak points and tweak your methods accordingly then you should be fine.

Generally the people who REALLY struggle are the ones who don't have good study habits and refuse to try other methods.

Many people with MCATs in the 25 range have gotten through med school. If they can do it then so can you!

Welp I've decided to go to PA school. Not totally sure if this is the right decision but I think, given the info I have, its the best decision for me. Guess I'll have to wait a few years to see if I end up regretting it or not.

 

[wjs010]

Welp I've decided to go to PA school. Not totally sure if this is the right decision but I think, given the info I have, its the best decision for me. Guess I'll have to wait a few years to see if I end up regretting it or not.

PA is a good gig. I don't know if it was right for you specifically, but they do really well so I'm sure you will be fine

 

[Stedari]

Quality studying > quantity studying every time. I get so tired of the people that say they studied all night but also posted a Facebook album and know who got a rose on The Bachelorette. I think that 2 quality hours after class and studying on the weekends before tests is more than adequate. Figure out exactly what material is being tested, who is writing those questions and what they are looking for. Then, study efficiently.

The same emphasis on efficiency applies to residency. Pre-round better. Make progress on your to do list at every chance. Get notes going before 2pm. Place your consults ASAP. People make their life much harder than it needs to be and then bitch about how tough things are.

 

[dfib slim]

and know who got a rose on The Bachelorette.

High yield right there

 

[Goro]

Good luck!

Welp I've decided to go to PA school. Not totally sure if this is the right decision but I think, given the info I have, its the best decision for me. Guess I'll have to wait a few years to see if I end up regretting it or not.