I'm going to start trying to shadow soon, most likely with a general practitioner and an anesthesiologist. I was wondering how many hours I should shadow with each or if I should only shadow one.
General SDN wisdom is to shadow 40-100 hours and have 200-500 hours of clinical experience total. Shadowing one physician for more than 1-2 days/shifts is not really worthwhile. You want breadth when shadowing. Also, no LORs from shadowed docs.
Interesting...
What's the reasoning behind this?
While some shadowing is needed and it's beneficial in general, I think it's probably way overrated in the premed community. I would think that 10/20 hours tops are more than enough, but hopefully somebody with more experience on the subject will chime in. I personally had 0 hours of shadowing when I applied but a lot of clinical volunteering.
They have nothing to write about, lol. LORs are primarily used to find out what you are like as a person (from another's perspective). They focus on things such as your accomplishments, how you work on a team, how you relate to others, what you bring to the table for medical school, your academic ability, evidence of your goals (i.e., supporting your PS), etc. Someone who has simply had you shadow them for a few days (or even weeks) really has no basis upon which to write such a letter. This is akin to asking a prof in a 200-person lecture (who has never or hardly ever actually met you and probably wouldn't remember your name to greet you in the hall -- rule of thumb on that would be if they know your name well enough to say "hi, [name]" in the hall or when they run into you elsewhere, they're probably a safe bet -- and if they approach you, it probably means they really like you...) to write such a letter. Often these people will write one if asked but it will be extremely general and an adcom is going to see right through it. In other words, such a letter might be "accepted" but it almost certainly will not paint you in a light even near that of the LOR from a research advisor, clinical supervisor, employer (in certain cases), upper division course (small class) professor, or professor for whom you TA'd.
How do people who only take the pre-reqs manage to get a LOR if they don't take upper division courses?
While some shadowing is needed and it's beneficial in general, I think it's probably way overrated in the premed community. I would think that 10/20 hours tops are more than enough, but hopefully somebody with more experience on the subject will chime in. I personally had 0 hours of shadowing when I applied but a lot of clinical volunteering.
How do people who only take the pre-reqs manage to get a LOR if they don't take upper division courses?
While some shadowing is needed and it's beneficial in general, I think it's probably way overrated in the premed community. I would think that 10/20 hours tops are more than enough, but hopefully somebody with more experience on the subject will chime in. I personally had 0 hours of shadowing when I applied but a lot of clinical volunteering.
While some shadowing is needed and it's beneficial in general, I think it's probably way overrated in the premed community. I would think that 10/20 hours tops are more than enough, but hopefully somebody with more experience on the subject will chime in. I personally had 0 hours of shadowing when I applied but a lot of clinical volunteering.
i know this is a dumb question but what exactly will qualify as clinical experience?
Also, no LORs from shadowed docs.
As LizzyM puts it, if you're close enough to smell patients, then it's a clinical experience.i know this is a dumb question but what exactly will qualify as clinical experience?
General SDN wisdom is to shadow 40-100 hours and have 200-500 hours of clinical experience total. Shadowing one physician for more than 1-2 days/shifts is not really worthwhile. You want breadth when shadowing. Also, no LORs from shadowed docs.
wow, thats it? I had 400 hours of shadowing as a high school student. As an Undergraduate, I plan on shadowing another 600 hours. Most of my family friends/relatives are doctors, so over breaks(when I am back home) I spend a couple of hours a day at their offices learning and observing.
My pre med committee actually requires a MD LOR (or DO if you're applying to DO schools) in order to write the composite letter.
and unless you're getting one from your PCP....
500 hours of clinical experience?
General SDN wisdom is to shadow 40-100 hours and have 200-500 hours of clinical experience total. Shadowing one physician for more than 1-2 days/shifts is not really worthwhile. You want breadth when shadowing. Also, no LORs from shadowed docs.
That is an insane amount of hours of clinical experience. If I did that, I would never see my friends or do anything other than school. I would think that medical schools would like to see that you have a life and that you are a well rounded person. I am going to go for around 25 like some have suggested. I have 100 hours of clinical experience as a hospital volunteer.
I promise that no school in the country looks down upon someone who does not have 200-500 hours of clinical experience. That is like working a full time job for a whole summer. What about people who work other jobs at Starbucks, or bus tables? Not everyone can get training and find jobs as an EMT, or a tech. Take shadowing and hospital volunteering and try to get 50-100 hours combined, you will be fine at 99% of all medical schools.
If you can't swing 10 hrs/wk to volunteer or work somewhere along w/ your school schedule, tell me: how do you expect to make it through medical school? I wish I were kidding, but 10 hrs/wk is nothing. Your UG schedule doesn't even compare to med school from talking w/ current and past med students (even my dad would say that and he went to med school several decades ago when they were barely starting to understand half the stuff they teach you now). My undergraduate schedule sr yr (pulling 21 units + practicing music a good 10-20 hrs/wk + 35 hr/wk job + 10 hr/wk internship + training/supervising student leaders) didn't even compare to med school and I still managed to hang out with friends quite a bit and go on day trips with friends on occasion. Sorry, I don't buy the "1/4-time volunteering is just too much" excuse. It's not. And if you split it over 2 years (starting sophomore year) it'd be a mere 5 hrs/wk and you'd still be ready to apply end of jr yr.That is an insane amount of hours of clinical experience. If I did that, I would never see my friends or do anything other than school. I would think that medical schools would like to see that you have a life and that you are a well rounded person. I am going to go for around 25 like some have suggested. I have 100 hours of clinical experience as a hospital volunteer.
I have about 40h shadowing, 0h hospital volunteering/employment, and 0h periodic (e.g. weekly) clinical experience period. My research is all basic sciences. But I did have about 600h other clinical experiences.
You definitely need to get clinical experiences, but imo you don't need to get it the regular way (daydreaming at the hospital front desk).
I would agree. Actually, I think the non-"regular" way is probably preferable as it makes you different. Also, I think some of the most valuable experiences are often the most overlooked by premeds b/c they aren't the obvious "shadow a surgeon" or "volunteer in the ER" experiences (which is one reason they are better -- other depts are more inviting to premeds b/c they get fewer of them, so they may be more likely to be sort of "excited" about giving a future doctor his/her "first taste" of medicine).
Ahahaha sorry for the edit.
I promise that no school in the country looks down upon someone who does not have 200-500 hours of clinical experience. That is like working a full time job for a whole summer. What about people who work other jobs at Starbucks, or bus tables? Not everyone can get training and find jobs as an EMT, or a tech. Take shadowing and hospital volunteering and try to get 50-100 hours combined, you will be fine at 99% of all medical schools.
Harvard Med: http://hms.harvard.edu/admissions/default.asp?page=selection
where is the 600 hour requirement?
John Hopkins: http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/admissions/apps.html
again where is this minimum hour commitment?
Anyone can point to a "certain school where I know the dean of admissions" as proof, that is not sufficient. How much wait does this next point of my argument hold? I know 3 people who got into medical schools with no shadowing....very very convincing. Find me a website where it gives these very inflated clinic hours?...please?
As many others on this thread have said you are wrong, so do not bash me and tell me what I can and can not "swing." You have no clue about me or what I do with my time, so please refrain from being ignorant.
And flip26, don't lecture to me either, again find proof behind your post rather than telling me something so obvious as: OMG I am competing against other applicants!!!! I had no clue breh. I'll be just fine thanks
And flip26, don't lecture to me either, again find proof behind your post rather than telling me something so obvious as: OMG I am competing against other applicants!!!! I had no clue breh. I'll be just fine thanks
says the person who has posted over 4,000 times on a online forum, you could have been using these hours to shadow...you're the inspiration for my new signature, see you in a year buddy (probably more like 2 cause i'm a soph), by then you should be up to 8,000 posts!!!!! I never made this personal until you both talked about my work ethic and chances...
by the way, i am a transporter at a hospital, so i work 16 hours a week there....i'll be just find, worry about you're own application (isn't there some kind of saying about compensating for inadequate things by pointing out others faults...?)
says the person who has posted over 4,000 times on a online forum, you could have been using these hours to shadow...you're the inspiration for my new signature, see you in a year buddy (probably more like 2 cause i'm a soph), by then you should be up to 8,000 posts!!!!! I never made this personal until you both talked about my work ethic and chances...
by the way, i am a transporter at a hospital, so i work 16 hours a week there....i'll be just find, worry about you're own application (isn't there some kind of saying about compensating for inadequate things by pointing out others faults...?)
The fact that people here find doctors that let them do so many hours shocks me. The relatively few (we're talking like 2-3 out of 30+) doctors that have agreed to let me shadow them set a very minimal cap on hours and rightfully act like the whole thing is a huge burden to them. On top of that, I totally feel like a terrible person for prying into the lives of patients for my own sole benefit, especially beyond that point where I can say "alright, I've seen this specialty" and believe me that seems to come really quickly. I agree with whoever in this thread is applying the words 'overkill' to shadowing hours in the triple digits or high double.
Everyone says that you need roughly a 3.6ish or a 30+ on the MCAT, doesn't mean you strive for only these goals. I know what I roughly need to get into medical school, does not mean that I strive for the minimum or pass up a job that I got because my mom is a nurse and I need the cash.
All I was saying is that the 600 hour number was ridiculous and no medical school is gonna say "i only see 100 hours (the number i suggested) of clinical work, we can't accept you"
cool you got in, and you don't have a signature to read, there's nothing below your posts breh...when you fail out cause you posted your 21,000 post on SDN i'll laugh
The fact that people here find doctors that let them do so many hours shocks me. The relatively few (we're talking like 2-3 out of 30+) doctors that have agreed to let me shadow them set a very minimal cap on hours and rightfully act like the whole thing is a huge burden to them. On top of that, I totally feel like a terrible person for prying into the lives of patients for my own sole benefit, especially beyond that point where I can say "alright, I've seen this specialty" and believe me that seems to come really quickly. I agree with whoever in this thread is applying the words 'overkill' to shadowing hours in the triple digits or high double.
Please read the thread and know what is being discussed before responding. By your post it is obvious you have not read the thread beyond a couple of posts in. We are not talking about 100+ hrs shadowing. 40-100 hrs shadowing with up to 500 hrs total clinical experience. You should not be doing said clinical experience for your "own sole benefit." It should also benefit the pts and staff.