How many interviews to go on?

[CaMD]

Hey all,

Anyone know (or been told anything) approximately how many interviews we should be going on, in order to safely match?

I applied to 15 programs but as the plane tickets are adding up, my bank account would like me not to have to go to all of them. (That said, obviously better safe than sorry!)

Gratzie!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[NJWxMan]

I second this question. I've only applied to programs in the Northeast. I'll make a poll.

 

[Still Kickin]

Hey all,

Anyone know (or been told anything) approximately how many interviews we should be going on, in order to safely match?

I applied to 15 programs but as the plane tickets are adding up, my bank account would like me not to have to go to all of them. (That said, obviously better safe than sorry!)

Gratzie!

If there's anyone out there who can weigh in on this topic, maybe you can also address a variation on the question. I'm imagining the type of program one is applying to would also affect our chances. (Like - suppose someone is ONLY applying to top tier programs - I would imagine you would need to interview more places to be assured of a match vs. if you also included some "safety" programs.) SO - what is a good number of "safety" programs to include, and how many programs might someone interview at who was only shooting for top-tier programs, and not including "safety" programs?

(Myself, I have some "safety" programs on my list - I was just curious how the competitiveness factor of the program itself figures into all of this.)

 

[masterofmonkeys]

whopper and doc samson have suggested 8-10 programs if you are shooting for top tier and are competitive.

I could see you getting away with 4-6 if you were planning on staying in the old geographical area/going community/middle tier.

 

[whopper]

This may sound oversimplistic. Its a general outline from my own experience.

Play this like you played going to college. Most medical students think applying to residency is as stressful as applying to medical school since that was their last frame of reference for a similar life event. Its much easier to get into residency than medschool.

So like college, shoot for some safeties, some top picks that might be slightly out of your reach & some ones within your reach. That'll make it 3 categories.

Also factor in the hours, the quality of the teaching, the location & your quality of life in the program. Of course, factor in if the program help you to get to where you want to be in the profession.

Among these 3 categories there should be a total of 8-12.

If you want to shoot for something out of your reach--fine but don't count it in the 8-12.

Where are you? Well if you're for the middle tier if you're a foreign grad who has passed Step I & II with no to few failures, went to an upper level foreign medschool, have good letters of rec & speak English fluently.

Above that you've got a shot at the upper tier programs. Below that, shoot for the lower tier.

One way this differs from applying for college is there is an extremely high level of variablility here. Since programs don't interview thousands of candidates, often times, only a few dozen, there's high room for someone getting in who's not in the norm--either highly above or below what the residency typically gets. Sometimes a top level candidate wants to go to a middle tier program because that's where he wants to settle down & there's no other programs in the area.

Don't go to too many interviews, if you're over 15--don't do any more than that. Heck 15 is overkill. Each interview will be tiresome & take a lot of energy out of you just from the travelling alone. You'll probably only be able to drive to a few if any. Going to ones where you'll have to fly will cost you a heck of a lot of money in travel, hotel & food expenses. I advise getting a GPS because you will not be familiar with the area & don't want to be late to an interview because you got lost.

You're probably not going to be happy with your peformance on the first 1-3 interviews. However by your 3rd or 4th the same questions will be asked & you will have mastered your presentation, but will also notice what makes these programs different & what is better & worse.

Residents often times settle down in the area where they did residency. By the time you've graduated, you've established yourself in the medical community of your area. If you move out, its almost like starting over. At the place I graduated from, I was asked to stay by several, was asked to talk to some people to take over their forensic practices & had a good rep among dozens of doctors & staff. Now that I'm in a new place, I'm almost starting over again. I'm working hard to establish the rep I had in my residency.

 

[CaMD]

Thank you, Whopper, for the thoughtful reply. As far as tiers I have one comment and one question.

Comment: The tier thing can be complicated. When I applied to med school I applied to broad range of schools including some "safeties." I didn't get any interviews at my "safety" schools, which in retrospect I think was because they knew I was going to get in somewhere else so they didn't bother. So sometimes I think a greater quantity of competitive programs is a better way to play the odds.

Regardless, when you're talking about choosing a few "safeties," normal, and competitive programs are you talking about keeping that distribution for interviews? (Like, out of the 15 programs I applied to, if I get interviews every program, I should still, out of those 15 choose a few reach and a few safeties. Or once you've gotten interviews can I just pick, say, the 9 programs I like the most on paper, without trying to classify them like that?

(Aside from a few big name programs, I'm not really sure which programs I applied to are more or less competitive...)

Thanks again!

 

[kstotes]

I've heard stats on there being a marked difference between the percentage of matching in applicants who go on 7 or more interviews and those who only interview at 1-6 programs.

 

[whopper]

when you're talking about choosing a few "safeties," normal, and competitive programs are you talking about keeping that distribution for interviews? (Like, out of the 15 programs I applied to, if I get interviews every program, I should still, out of those 15 choose a few reach and a few safeties. Or once you've gotten interviews can I just pick, say, the 9 programs I like the most on paper, without trying to classify them like that?

I'm talking out of the interviews you get, don't do over 12-15 (depending on how safe you want to be).

You of course don't have to classify it the exact way I mentioned. One thing I should've mentioned is the Match system does give you a bit of a better safety buffer than applying to college, so definitely don't scratch a place off your list that you want to go to if its not a safety program.

 

[Still Kickin]

When I applied to med school I applied to broad range of schools including some "safeties." I didn't get any interviews at my "safety" schools, which in retrospect I think was because they knew I was going to get in somewhere else so they didn't bother.

On a related note, does anyone have any tips about the actual *interview* at a "safety" program? (ie - I don't know how I will ever be able to fake enough enthusiasm to convince them I am interested in their program. And I don't know what I'll tell them about my career goals either [as it will be apparant from my goals they they are not the right program for me!]) I don't really want to lie or be fake, but it seems almost rude/pointless to show up at a program where one is such an obvious "bad fit"...

(On the other hand, sub-optimal program would still be better than NOT MATCHING so I would still like to include some "safety" interviews. [And maybe I will get some pleasant surprises at these places, you never know.])

 

[Doc Samson]

I don't know how I will ever be able to fake enough enthusiasm to convince them I am interested in their program.

I ended up "disappearing" after my last sit-down interview at one program, with a good 3-4 hours of social screw-around still on the program just because I knew I couldn't fake it that long (and because my buddy was doen with his interview for the surgery program at the same hospital and wanted to get a drink).

 

[billypilgrim37]

Unless you've failed Step 1 like six times and only speak Klingon, there's probably no reason to interview at a program that you don't think you could possibly be happy to match at.

If you do want to apply to some safety programs, one strategy might be to choose ones that make geographic sense for you, and say that you are considering being closer to home (or your partner's home, or your eighth cousin's parakeet's home, etc).

Of course, this may have worked better for me, because I grew up in an area in the rural South where most of the psychiatrists likely failed Step 1 six times and only spoke Klingon*.

*Note: the brand names for several of the typical psychotics are merely transliterations from the original Klingon.

 

[DebDynamite]

Unless you've failed Step 1 like six times and only speak Klingon, there's probably no reason to interview at a program that you don't think you could possibly be happy to match at.

If you do want to apply to some safety programs, one strategy might be to choose ones that make geographic sense for you, and say that you are considering being closer to home (or your partner's home, or your eighth cousin's parakeet's home, etc).

Of course, this may have worked better for me, because I grew up in an area in the rural South where most of the psychiatrists likely failed Step 1 six times and only spoke Klingon*.

*Note: the brand names for several of the typical psychotics are merely transliterations from the original Klingon.

100% agreed

 

[whopper]

Well there are several out there who are in the situation you mention Billy--having failed several times & speaking Klingon (well actually some other foreign language but not Klingon).

While it may make some of us a bit judgemental against them (I at times hear medstudents make fun of a candidate like this) I empathize with a lot of them. Some of them for example made it to the US after busting their butts for years and have been out of medical school for years--so naturally they don't do well on their USMLE exams. Heck I wouldn't have if I was out of medschool for years too.

One example--I knew a guy who was a practicing MD in Chile & left because his life & lives of his family were in danger. His family didn't exactly agree with the local government, and well some of those people were burned alive. He was years out of medschool and didn't speak English well.

So he ended up in the US working his tail off at a research job in a lab that paid below minimum wage (completely legal if you're a student which he had to become to take medical classes over), while supporting his family. That particular case had a happy ending--the guy got into a great residency program (Harvard no less) but he did fail USMLE a few times. I think what saved him was he did some good research that got published. To this day I really don't know how he got in unless the program really & truly looked at him as a real person & not just his scores. The guy was a damn hero IMHO on the order of Will Smith's character in Pursuit of Happiness.

I just talked to a student on the board a few days ago who was very nervous & I believed his sincerity about his passion for psychiatry--but he had failed USMLE several times.

Anyways, I know many of you aren't in this position. When I applied for residency, I was very nervous & didn't know if I'd get in anywhere. Not only did I get plenty of interviews--I got into my #1 choice. Most of you medstudents are in a much better position than you think.

 

[ApolloDok]

Thanks Whopper for a beautiful post. I really appreciate it.

 

[BobA]

For what it's worth I am doing 10

2 "practice" interviews early at good programs I can drive to (but wouldn't rank high)

2 "safety" schools with geography I'd love

4 "more competitive" but could probably go to if I wanted to.

2 "reach" schools

 

[chameleonknight]

Unless you've failed Step 1 like six times and only speak Klingon, there's probably no reason to interview at a program that you don't think you could possibly be happy to match at.

Nuq chugh SoH neH w'rkki jIH vIHHa' Daq Harvard ir Johns Hopkins?

 

[CarleneM]

I've heard stats on there being a marked difference between the percentage of matching in applicants who go on 7 or more interviews and those who only interview at 1-6 programs.

Hard to know what to make of that though- are they only going on 6 because that's all they were offered? Or are they being selective? My guess is that it is the former. Right now, I'm booking all the interviews I get and then will cancel some if scheduling overlaps too much or if I am getting burned out. The "safety" programs I have applied to are all local, however. I wouldn't spend on hotels/transportation to go to safety schools I had little realistic chance of ending up in. I don't want to waste my time or theirs....

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Nuq chugh SoH neH w'rkki jIH vIHHa' Daq Harvard ir Johns Hopkins?

OK. Speaking as an interviewer, I'd be officially freaked.
But if you were wearing battle garb and had one of those bendy double-ended sword thingies, I might offer to pre-match you.

 

[billypilgrim37]

But if you were wearing battle garb and had one of those bendy double-ended sword thingies, I might offer to pre-match you.

Context is everything, but I think I like this guy He would balance out the betazoids at most programs handily.

 

[Doc Samson]

Context is everything, but I think I like this guy He would balance out the betazoids at most programs handily.

Betazoids = outpatient psychotherapists (especially in C&A)
Vulcans = psychoanalysts
Romulans = psychopharmacologists
Klingons = emergency and CL psychiatrists
Ferengi = big pharma
Tribbles = social workers (I kid because I love)

Any other suggestions?

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Betazoids = outpatient psychotherapists (especially in C&A)
Vulcans = psychoanalysts
Romulans = psychopharmacologists
Klingons = emergency and CL psychiatrists
Ferengi = big pharma
Tribbles = social workers (I kid because I love)

Any other suggestions?

I believe we discussed a similar issue in this thread, back in August.
(Posts #45-48)

(Actually--that was a fun thread on a lot of levels.)

 

[billypilgrim37]

Any other suggestions?

Why do I somehow think that Q was into forensics?

 

[OldPsychDoc]

SDN really needs to give us an award for how quickly we get our serious threads to devolve into this kind of thing...

 

[pingouin]

Betazoids = outpatient psychotherapists (especially in C&A)
Vulcans = psychoanalysts
Romulans = psychopharmacologists
Klingons = emergency and CL psychiatrists
Ferengi = big pharma
Tribbles = social workers (I kid because I love)

Any other suggestions?

I'm not a ST fan but after some quick Wikipediaing, I have to ask: if I'm currently working on morphing from Tribble to Betazoid... that's an upgrade, right?

Although according to Wiki, apparently Doc S and I are mortal enemies.

 

[Doc Samson]

I'm not a ST fan but after some quick Wikipediaing, I have to ask: if I'm currently working on morphing from Tribble to Betazoid... that's an upgrade, right?

Although according to Wiki, apparently Doc S and I are mortal enemies.

I'd would vote "yes" on the upgrade. I actually enjoy working with my own recently hired social worker, though I have encountered a few that I would classify as mortal enemies. CL psychiatrists in general don't have much time for hand-wringing which seems to have been at least a college minor of many social workers that I've encountered.

 

[masterofmonkeys]

do I HAVE to wear spandex?

 

[pingouin]

I'd would vote "yes" on the upgrade. I actually enjoy working with my own recently hired social worker, though I have encountered a few that I would classify as mortal enemies. CL psychiatrists in general don't have much time for hand-wringing which seems to have been at least a college minor of many social workers that I've encountered.

I've not heard it referred to as that, but that's one of the better assessments I've heard.

I myself minored in French, prompting the question to my PBL group during our exam today: "So if I found a relevant abstract for the case on PubMed.. but it's written in French... but I can read it... can I cite it?"

But back to the Star Trek thing.. my study group are big enough nerds that we spent time during anatomy figuring out which muscles are involved in making the Vulcan hand greeting.

 

[fotolilith]

OK. Speaking as an interviewer, I'd be officially freaked.
But if you were wearing battle garb and had one of those bendy double-ended sword thingies, I might offer to pre-match you.

I would show up in a Princess Leia gold bikini if it meant I'd get pre-matched. ;-)

 

[fotolilith]

do I HAVE to wear spandex?

Gene Roddenberry was a big fan of a future with men in skirts. Just check the first ep of ST:TBG if you don't believe me. I'm gonna crawl back into my hole now.

 

[masterofmonkeys]

the skirt is the traditional warrior's garb of my people. Skirts I can do. But I will not do spandex.

 

[BabyPsychDoc]

I would show up in a Princess Leia gold bikini if it meant I'd get pre-matched. ;-)

ahem... that would depend on a)whether you would look cute in the said bikini and b)whether the interviewer belongs to the right gender and orientation

 

[OldPsychDoc]

ahem... that would depend on a)whether you would look cute in the said bikini and b)whether the interviewer belongs to the right gender and orientation

"Star Wars" is an orientation unto itself!

 

[BabyPsychDoc]

"Star Wars" is an orientation unto itself!

does it mean I would get prematched if I make a lot of reassuring beeps and excited whirrs on the day?

 

[Doc Samson]

"Star Wars" is an orientation unto itself!

We did that a LONG time ago... I was Qui Gon Jinn if memory serves.

 

[wolfvgang22]

It's not a skirt, it's a kilt. lol

I have a question related to the number of interviews:
Let's hypothetically say a student did not think he or she would get a lot of interview offers, and so scheduled the first 10 received, and doesn't have time/money to fit in more interviews. The student then gets an offer to interview at his or her all time #1 favorite program. Is it okay to cancel one of the original 10 interviews as long as a couple of weeks notice is given?

 

[OldPsychDoc]

It's not a skirt, it's a kilt. lol

I have a question related to the number of interviews:
Let's hypothetically say a student did not think he or she would get a lot of interview offers, and so scheduled the first 10 received, and doesn't have time/money to fit in more interviews. The student then gets an offer to interview at his or her all time #1 favorite program. Is it okay to cancel one of the original 10 interviews as long as a couple of weeks notice is given?

You do not need to be apologetic about cancelling (or asking to reschedule) an interview for any reason. Calling ahead is an appreciated courtesy. We frequently have applicants just not show up, and frankly there are no consequences--it's not like we punitively track them down and badmouth them to other programs!