How many of you are really interested in Independent Pharmacy?

[Doctor M]

How did you make an agreement with the homes? I'm sure most facilities already have some sort of system set up, or did you find a newly opened place?

The owners are argentinian, Im latino, kind of like stick with your own kind Actually, a patient worked at the facility and she recommended us to the owners.

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[Ackj]

The owners are argentinian, Im latino, kind of like stick with your own kind Actually, a patient worked at the facility and she recommended us to the owners.

So kind of dumb luck I guess. If I could get a contract with a facility, that seems like it would keep food on the table long enough to build a retail customer base, but I guess there's no real trick to getting such a contract.

 

[Doctor M]

So kind of dumb luck I guess. If I could get a contract with a facility, that seems like it would keep food on the table long enough to build a retail customer base, but I guess there's no real trick to getting such a contract.

It's never what you know, it's who you know. That is all that matters.

 

[farmadiazepine]

Doc M,

I'm extremely interested in independent. Just graduated this year, working for CVS full time (more like dumb over time). Retail is definitely the way I want to go.. The interaction with people, getting prescription volume up, getting customer loyalty, that's what it's all about it.

I want to open up an independent pharmacy in the near future. I found 2 partners who are also serious and we are dogs when it comes to work. We will have enough money to open it up.

My fear is failure. Opening up a pharmacy, not getting customers in the door, not having customer loyalty, being a slow pharmacy with more expenses than money coming in..

My fear is not being able to manage a front store. You can't have a pharmacy all by itself nowadays .. You need to sell other things too.. OTC items.. shower items.. beauty products, cosmetics.. etc..

Another fear is reimbursement from insurance companies. Yes, I keep hearing the rates keep getting lower. But I still hear that independents can still make good money. The fear I really have is with things like Caremark requiring customers to stop using independents and start putting maintenance Rx's through mail order or get Rx's at CVS and no where else..

I don't know man ..

It's still something I still want to do.

I'd appreciate it if you PM me.. Give a young'in some tips, some stuff you wish you knew when you graduated from pharmacy school that you know now. I know you used to work for CVS, and if I can keep reading on this forum how you made it and are enjoying your job, I'm sure I can do it as well.

Not afraid to work hard, put in those 14, 16 hour days .. for a couple years until everything starts sailing smoothly

 

[eddie269]

you should have 175k-200k handy. An ALF is an Assisted Living Facility. Open a closed door pharmacy, have 3 large ALFS and some retail business, and you are golden.

With that 175k-200k handy, is that what you recommend for a compounding pharmacy too?

And I guess you and your partner just came up with ~$90k each and went with it?

Lastly, with my student debt well over 100k, do you recommend saving money for the business and NOT paying off all your loans (but instead, just make your monthly payments according to schedule?)

 

[Jabberwocky12]

In terms of paying student debt or starting an investment with the pharmacy, I'd personally reduce the student debt down a bit first. If you are going to get a loan for the business then compare interest rates on the loan vs student loans and see which would be better.

I'd personally try to reduce my debt down to half before doing any other venture. I think that is possible to do with very little spending in 2-3 years, which also allows you 2-3 years to gain retail experience, get a location and building and all the contracts and whatnot done as well. 2-3 years seems like a good way to go, not the 5-7 years some people talk about before starting a pharmacy.

I'm not saying retail is simple, but I'm saying that things you don't learn in 2-3 years will probably not all be picked up by years 5-7. I think you learn most of it in the 2-3 year period.

Also, if anyone is opening an indy pharmacy in the NC area hit me up, I'll be a tech there for a while

 

[Doctor M]

In terms of paying student debt or starting an investment with the pharmacy, I'd personally reduce the student debt down a bit first. If you are going to get a loan for the business then compare interest rates on the loan vs student loans and see which would be better.

I'd personally try to reduce my debt down to half before doing any other venture. I think that is possible to do with very little spending in 2-3 years, which also allows you 2-3 years to gain retail experience, get a location and building and all the contracts and whatnot done as well. 2-3 years seems like a good way to go, not the 5-7 years some people talk about before starting a pharmacy.

I'm not saying retail is simple, but I'm saying that things you don't learn in 2-3 years will probably not all be picked up by years 5-7. I think you learn most of it in the 2-3 year period.

Also, if anyone is opening an indy pharmacy in the NC area hit me up, I'll be a tech there for a while

This is good advice. 3 years is a good time frame. i did 5 just because i wanted more cash flow and i wanted to find a partner. As for the student loans, i lucked out because my interest rate were low, 2.75% and we took out no business loans, other than a $75,000 loan from my father that we took out to buy more drugs for the ALFs last year. That loan was paid off in december of 2010. We took on an ALF pretty soon after opening and we needed more cash flow because those brand name drugs are mighty expensive!

 

[Doctor M]

With that 175k-200k handy, is that what you recommend for a compounding pharmacy too?

And I guess you and your partner just came up with ~$90k each and went with it?

Lastly, with my student debt well over 100k, do you recommend saving money for the business and NOT paying off all your loans (but instead, just make your monthly payments according to schedule?)

Like Jabberwocky said, it depends really. My interest rate is low, really low. Im paying myself first, and once i feel comfortable with my finances, i will pay off the car and the student loans. I am under the belief to pay yourself first responsibly.

I don not now how much a full line compounding pharmacy would be, but i imagine 150k-200k would be enough to buy equipment, drugs and perhaps a clean room as well have enough for you expenses for at least 6 months.

 

[Doctor M]

I just wanted to throw this out there: Im a conservative spender, yet very risky with my finances. I know it sounds strange, but if i see an opportunity, i take it. im not sure how to explain it; sort of like a passive aggressive approach to money. I will take an opportunity to make money if the idea is there, and if i lose the money, so be it, i move on to the next approach. We have had so many ideas come and go at our pharmacy. The best idea we had was opening up the long term care facility in the back room, call it suite B, and make more money without renting another building and spending more money. The worst ideas we had was marketing with coupons in small newspapers, flyers etc etc. We spent thousands of dollars doing this with little return. The best marketing and advertising we have are our current patients. word of mouth. "The best compliment you can give is to refer a friend". You try different things, spend some cash, and see what happens.

Dont be afraid to lose money, make mistakes. Be conservative, yet have some cohones. I see alot of pharmacists interested in being owners, yet are deathly afraid of failing. The way i see it, if my store goes down hill, and we close, i will find something else to do. I will be in financial crisis for a while, but I will pick myself up and do it again. Who cares if you fail. You have a family? gotta feed your kids? after you fail, find another source of income, sell you expensive cars, downsize your home, defer your student loans; pick yourself up, be a leader. Ever since i was in my teens, i always loved the idea of spending money to make money. I remember spending lots of money on sports memorabilia and selling it. Now granted, it was during a time baseball cards were the thing, i made some money and lost lots of money. So be it. Move on...

Get what im saying?

 

[eddie269]

This is good advice. 3 years is a good time frame. i did 5 just because i wanted more cash flow and i wanted to find a partner. As for the student loans, i lucked out because my interest rate were low, 2.75% and we took out no business loans, other than a $75,000 loan from my father that we took out to buy more drugs for the ALFs last year. That loan was paid off in december of 2010. We took on an ALF pretty soon after opening and we needed more cash flow because those brand name drugs are mighty expensive!

Thanks jabba and Doctor M for the reply.

So one should aim to work for 3-5 years for experience and save up $75k cash and then look for a business partner to go half with.

Sounds like a plan. haha

But as far as making a business plan, how do I go about that? Is there a guide to help me?

 

[phampau]

Doctor M, i have been following your adventure since the time you have opened and I must say that I admire your will! I too have thought of owning my own pharmacy one day but i cannot seem to realize how i can compete with the big chains. They are open much longer hours than you can, they have more "in" stock drugs than you have, and overall, they are just more convenient for the customer (prime location, drive thru, etc). The upper hand that we have on the larger chains is customer service, but how far does that get you? In this economy, it seems that price is #1, convenience is #2, and customer service is #3. Am i looking at this the wrong way? Paul

 

[Doctor M]

Doctor M, i have been following your adventure since the time you have opened and I must say that I admire your will! I too have thought of owning my own pharmacy one day but i cannot seem to realize how i can compete with the big chains. They are open much longer hours than you can, they have more "in" stock drugs than you have, and overall, they are just more convenient for the customer (prime location, drive thru, etc). The upper hand that we have on the larger chains is customer service, but how far does that get you? In this economy, it seems that price is #1, convenience is #2, and customer service is #3. Am i looking at this the wrong way? Paul

If price is number 1, well i can beat them on that everyday, all day long. Remember, i know what i paid for a drug. That is all i have to say about that. We are on pace to fill 4500 rxs this month. a huge jump from last month. Price and customer service are key. Ive always said this. This will never change. The people that want a chain and like their hours will always use a chain. That is fine. Eventually the prices with catch up to them and they will find it cheaper somewhere else, such as an independent down the street. Or they will get tired of the long waits or whatever. Eventually, we will get them as a patient and we will retain them.

 

[Jabberwocky12]

Yeah I'm to the point as well that doing anything independently will be at least 6.02x 10^23 times better than the corporate equivalent. Insurance agents, pharmacies, doctors offices and clinics (as long as they have access to clinical records in a larger database,) restaurants, technology sales and service, retail stores, vets, pawn shops, hardware stores, accountants, mortgage brokers, and pretty much everything else. As long as the owner gives a flippin' s*** you should be a lot better off. People are used to price only but the service and quality of good is just as important, if not moreso. Not paying $4 generics at an indy but the pharmacist going over all your drugs with you piece by piece because he/she has time for MTM is worth the extra 5 dollars in my opinion. The money and comfort they save you when realizing that you're taking warfarin and 3 nsaids together, or that you should be taking folate with methotrexate or potassium with HCTZ makes up for the non-4$G as well. The only good that a retail chain is worth is for the virtually unlimited funds available for things but even that becomes less important once the indy has time to establish themselves... and the ability to cover one's a** extremely well.

A lot of people agree and others would agree once they had a reason to care. If a person went to an independent just once for whatever reason, they'd see that an indy isn't a run down small pharmacy that is a fraction of a retail chain's quality. They'll see customer service, cheaper and better selection of products for things a chain doesn't offer, and a better environment all around with a cool pharmacist and tech to talk to. Well, hopefully they think the pharmacist is cool. They might not have the time to talk to the pharmacist very much since their drugs will be done so fast

However, there are times I walk into an indy and the pharmacist is almost unnervingly sweet to you and jumps at anything you say. These are the new pharmacies where a pharmacist just added approx. 100-200k in debt to their current debt for the freedom, and wants to retain their customer. Those people sometimes need to cool it but I'll take that over a burnt out pharmacist who is there for the paycheck anytime. These pharmacists are there either for the community, or for more money. Either way it leads to better service and a greater experience.

That would be the goal of my pharmacy, to be the pharmacist in a small town that people know by name. Heck it works out well anyway since most people don't want to move to a rural area after graduation . I'd like to know the MDs, PAs, DDS, DPTs in the area and communicate with them more than just a fax back and forth. I'd like to get to know patients and ask how the new baby is doing, or to offer condolences that a grandparent passed away, or to wish a family luck as their only child goes away to college. You just can't do that in CVS where you get a DM on you because you don't answer your phones quickly enough.

I've been spending a lot of time in independents because I'm wanting to open one; that and I sell insurance and pharmacies are a target market of mine. It's great to pick the brains of current pharmacists there and see what they do to stay afloat, what their worry level and stress level are (and why), and how they plan to make themselves different than the chains and other independents in the area. Go to a non-medicine shoppe independent sometime and see how they operate.

Reimbursement might lower in script count, especially with mail order, but that's where a marketing and business plan come in; one could say the same issues would occur in a metro pharmacy as well. Just be smart with your plan and do something different so people have a reason to come in. If you have a CVS, WAGS, and RA all on the same street corner people will pick and choose based on some other reason like a minute clinic or better hours or a nicer staff. You just have to have a reason for people to drive past them all to your pharmacy, and you better well stick to it!

 

[Doctor M]

Doc M,

I'm extremely interested in independent. Just graduated this year, working for CVS full time (more like dumb over time). Retail is definitely the way I want to go.. The interaction with people, getting prescription volume up, getting customer loyalty, that's what it's all about it.

I want to open up an independent pharmacy in the near future. I found 2 partners who are also serious and we are dogs when it comes to work. We will have enough money to open it up.

My fear is failure. Opening up a pharmacy, not getting customers in the door, not having customer loyalty, being a slow pharmacy with more expenses than money coming in..

My fear is not being able to manage a front store. You can't have a pharmacy all by itself nowadays .. You need to sell other things too.. OTC items.. shower items.. beauty products, cosmetics.. etc..

Another fear is reimbursement from insurance companies. Yes, I keep hearing the rates keep getting lower. But I still hear that independents can still make good money. The fear I really have is with things like Caremark requiring customers to stop using independents and start putting maintenance Rx's through mail order or get Rx's at CVS and no where else..

I don't know man ..

It's still something I still want to do.

I'd appreciate it if you PM me.. Give a young'in some tips, some stuff you wish you knew when you graduated from pharmacy school that you know now. I know you used to work for CVS, and if I can keep reading on this forum how you made it and are enjoying your job, I'm sure I can do it as well.

Not afraid to work hard, put in those 14, 16 hour days .. for a couple years until everything starts sailing smoothly

If your fear is failure, then keep working for CVS. You cannot be afraid or think of failing. If you do fail, so what. You lost some money, but gained some experience. All I can tell you is to go into this without any regrets or thoughts of failing. I know the advice isnt rocket science, but if the market is there and you are good with people, you will have a better chance of surviving.

 

[kvl1027]

I just wanted to throw this out there. Business ownership is not for everyone. My parents owned a shop and it is highly unlikely that I will follow that example. It is great for the right kind of person, but it is not for everyone.

To contribute more positively to Dr.M's thread I will ask something that I am curious about. There are so many insurances - do you negotiate with them individually or are you a part of some kind of collective bargaining group? Or is the whole negotiating thing overplayed and you basically just accept their terms or choose not to take that particular insurance? Hope my question made sense.

There are usually package deals offered by your drug wholesaler. As an example Cardinal Health has a product called leadernet. When you sign up as a leadernet pharmacy you automatically get all of the contracts that leadernet already has set up. This is just one of the ways to get things done easily.

With that being said, all you really need to do is sign contracts as a provider and keep the contract on file. It is not like you are going to be able to negotiate a better contract with the insurance company, they pretty much have a template for retail pharmacies and you sign it if you want to accept assignment for their patients.

 

[kvl1027]

Doctor M, i have been following your adventure since the time you have opened and I must say that I admire your will! I too have thought of owning my own pharmacy one day but i cannot seem to realize how i can compete with the big chains. They are open much longer hours than you can, they have more "in" stock drugs than you have, and overall, they are just more convenient for the customer (prime location, drive thru, etc). The upper hand that we have on the larger chains is customer service, but how far does that get you? In this economy, it seems that price is #1, convenience is #2, and customer service is #3. Am i looking at this the wrong way? Paul

Typically the major chains don't have more "in-stock" items than we do. They might have more inventory in terms of dollars on their shelves, but what does that inventory include? We carry stuff that none of the chains carry. Often times patients come to us because walmart, wags, cvs, did not have their specialty med and we see that as a major opportunity to grab their business. When someone comes with an Enbrel script or gleevec we jump on it and make sure we have it every month for them. If we can "wow" them that one time we may earn their business indefinitly.

 

[phampau]

I am researching my possibilities and saving up the cash flow, hopefully I will be able to do something sometime next year...Seems like you guys are doing great! Keep it up!

 

[TeaTree]

I have a friend who just opened his pharmacy, he told me he's only getting about 2-3 dollars profit without subtracting all the expenses like rent and utilities. This is a very scary profit margin, I don't think anyone will survive on a 3 dollar per rx... His rent per month is 10,000!! It's at a prime NYC location but with a lot of pharmacies close by. Any thoughts on it? Dr. M?

 

[miniyou]

I have been working on setting up a national automated pharmacy that will have a major mail order component. I am working on what is hopefully the final financing now. The actual setting up the pharmacy will be easier then the problem with getting the proper financing. I am a female and going after 3 million in funding. The scale is larger then a normal independent pharmacy but the rewards are far greater also. When you look at the amount needed and everything you have to go through, you start to wonder about your sanity and why you decided this would be a good idea. This is not something that I would recommend to everyone. You have to really be dedicated and somewhat of a bulldog to get through it. You will also find people will line up to work for you but do not want to have the burden of owning one. I have learned a lot by trial and error but it looks as if I am near the end of the process.There are a lot of sharks in the water that want to find a way to take your money and run. You have to be very careful with VC and angels. They may not be as pure in their intentions as they pretend to be. A lawyer is your best friend, find one who will tell you the unvarnished truth, and is someone you can trust. You have to find several funding sources if you are going for something that requires over a million dollars. Leasing,and rental property will help keep the initial cost down. Our break even point will be the 7th month after opening. You need to have enough money in the bank to be able to survive for a year. This will insure you have the best chance if something went wrong. You can plan, hope, and pray that everything goes well but the secret to success is a back up plan if the worst or unexpected happens. Good luck to everyone who considers this route. I can tell you that if you purchase a existing pharmacy you will be able to fund it faster and with out as many problems as I have had to overcome.On the other hand if you go the start up route you can place the pharmacy anywhere and set it up the way it needs to be set up and do not have to deal with outdated equipment, systems, and location issues. It is up to you to decide which is better for you.

 

[southpharmindy]

I am extremely interested in this thread being an independent pharmacist. Eventually I hope to take over the pharmacy that I currently run.

Miniyou, is there somewhere in particular I can look if I want to research how to start a mail order component.

 

[punkajk]

I want to start up from scratch.... A brand new place because I think it will be the least expensive way to go. All the pharmacies in my area that are established are selling starting at 450K. I figured I can rent a place and set it up for under approx 50K and working capital of 50K. I understand that I won't see income for a while but Ive put myself in a situation where I can survive without much income for a year or so. But my question is what are the steps once a location is found? Contact the board of pharmacy? How do I register a pharmacy name and with who do I do that? Should I get a lawyer? Do I need a separate bank account for the business? Ive never owned a business so Im overwhelmed. Ive already found a potential location....

 

[kvl1027]

I want to start up from scratch.... A brand new place because I think it will be the least expensive way to go. All the pharmacies in my area that are established are selling starting at 450K. I figured I can rent a place and set it up for under approx 50K and working capital of 50K. I understand that I won't see income for a while but Ive put myself in a situation where I can survive without much income for a year or so. But my question is what are the steps once a location is found? Contact the board of pharmacy? How do I register a pharmacy name and with who do I do that? Should I get a lawyer? Do I need a separate bank account for the business? Ive never owned a business so Im overwhelmed. Ive already found a potential location....

If you are starting from scratch and only investing 50K in the business it is going to take you some time to get the ball rolling and you might be thinking a little too low end. Reimbursement rates are very low, your margins are going to very thin. Your starting inventory alone, on the very lowest of spectrums should be at least 30K.

When you are asking questions like, do I need a separate bank account, you seem to know very little about business. I am not trying to be mean or get your hopes down, but you need to do some very serious research before setting out on your journey. I just dont want to see you lose your *****.

I just don't see you staying open very long with only 100k. You are going to have stretch out that 100k for a couple of years at least.

Good luck, but really think about whether you can afford to do this before you throw all your cash in.

 

[Unchained]

Punkajk you are in way over your head here. You need to gain experience before you open your own business. You need a to team yourself with a mentor who has been doing this for a while. There are too many X factors in pharmacy that affect the success of your business. I wouldn't think of doing it unless you have 250k in the bank. Don't count on paying yourself for 2 to 3 years.

 

[rph3664]

I want to start up from scratch.... A brand new place because I think it will be the least expensive way to go. All the pharmacies in my area that are established are selling starting at 450K. I figured I can rent a place and set it up for under approx 50K and working capital of 50K. I understand that I won't see income for a while but Ive put myself in a situation where I can survive without much income for a year or so. But my question is what are the steps once a location is found? Contact the board of pharmacy? How do I register a pharmacy name and with who do I do that? Should I get a lawyer? Do I need a separate bank account for the business? Ive never owned a business so Im overwhelmed. Ive already found a potential location....

Contact http://www.score.org . This is an organization made up of retired executives and business owners, some of whom may even be pharmacists, who can advise you on at least the very basics. You would definitely need a lawyer, and an accountant too.

 

[kvl1027]

Contact http://www.score.org . This is an organization made up of retired executives and business owners, some of whom may even be pharmacists, who can advise you on at least the very basics. You would definitely need a lawyer, and an accountant too.

And a little more money.

 

[kvl1027]

I want to start up from scratch.... A brand new place because I think it will be the least expensive way to go. All the pharmacies in my area that are established are selling starting at 450K. I figured I can rent a place and set it up for under approx 50K and working capital of 50K. I understand that I won't see income for a while but Ive put myself in a situation where I can survive without much income for a year or so. But my question is what are the steps once a location is found? Contact the board of pharmacy? How do I register a pharmacy name and with who do I do that? Should I get a lawyer? Do I need a separate bank account for the business? Ive never owned a business so Im overwhelmed. Ive already found a potential location....

You know I was thinking, 450K is not a bad price for a pharmacy, so long as there is some business there. If that pharmacy is in the black numbers then it would probably be a good investment. You can put you 100k down and let a distributor like Cardinal or Mckesson take the hit on the rest. That store is already paying a pharmacist salary, so you can just slide in and be the pharmacist/owner and not have to take a pay-cut. Something to think about.

 

[Mila T]

Thank U for inside suggestions.
Nothing compares with having your own.

 

[Mila T]

Also, if anyone is opening an indy pharmacy in the NC area hit me up, I'll be a tech there for a while

I will take you up on this.

 

[southpharmindy]

I have some business questions for those of you who might know. I would really like to get a feel for some of the things others are doing. No need to reinvent the wheel if someone else has something that works

What is the cheapest place that you have found to buy quality vials?
Where can I find a cheap narcotic safe? Kinda important as I need to buy one.
Anyone had luck with the Kyocera line printers? I know the cartridges seem to be much cheaper than the Lexmark.
Who do you guys refer to as "API" in regards to wholesaler?

Thanks hope to have some good discussion

 

[punkajk]

Thanks for the tip. I just found out about wholesalers providing funding. Maybe getting an existing is the safer way to go. Will update when I find out what Im doing.

 

[punkajk]

Thanks for the tip. I just found out about wholesalers providing funding. Maybe getting an existing is the safer way to go. Will update when I find out what Im doing.

You know I was thinking, 450K is not a bad price for a pharmacy, so long as there is some business there. If that pharmacy is in the black numbers then it would probably be a good investment. You can put you 100k down and let a distributor like Cardinal or Mckesson take the hit on the rest. That store is already paying a pharmacist salary, so you can just slide in and be the pharmacist/owner and not have to take a pay-cut. Something to think about.

 

[southpharmindy]

If the 450k includes the building that is a great price especially if the business does 150+ per day. It takes a while to build up to that volume and you probably couldn't start your own store for less than 200k. Much less risky to find and old pharmacist ready to retire and buy them out.

 

[FarmDeeHI]

Contact http://www.score.org . This is an organization made up of retired executives and business owners, some of whom may even be pharmacists, who can advise you on at least the very basics. You would definitely need a lawyer, and an accountant too.

Thanks for the suggestion on the website. I am pursing a dual pharmd/mba degree in hopes of learning how to procure enough capital and business savvy to start up/own my own independent pharmacy. But, possibly getting more help and guidance on the situation from potential "know-how"s is a good I'd imagine.

 

[FarmDeeHI]

I have a friend who just opened his pharmacy, he told me he's only getting about 2-3 dollars profit without subtracting all the expenses like rent and utilities. This is a very scary profit margin, I don't think anyone will survive on a 3 dollar per rx... His rent per month is 10,000!! It's at a prime NYC location but with a lot of pharmacies close by. Any thoughts on it? Dr. M?

It's been a few months.. any substantial updates from your friend regarding his pharmacy? I would imagine he would have trouble from the surrounding pharmacies as it seems like the cat-dog fight between big chains and growing independent pharms seem to seep it's way into the media a lot more often than I'd like to see...

 

[Doctor M]

I have a friend who just opened his pharmacy, he told me he's only getting about 2-3 dollars profit without subtracting all the expenses like rent and utilities. This is a very scary profit margin, I don't think anyone will survive on a 3 dollar per rx... His rent per month is 10,000!! It's at a prime NYC location but with a lot of pharmacies close by. Any thoughts on it? Dr. M?

Seems grim. profit of 2 to 3 dollars per script is normal but you also need some mix in there. Psyche meds, Pain management, etc etc. We survive on a mix of scripts: ALFs, Pain management, regular meds. No way you can survive on just regular meds. Walmart killed that years ago. And 10,000 is a ridiculous amount of money for rent. I would like an update on this store.

 

[southpharmindy]

Seems grim. profit of 2 to 3 dollars per script is normal but you also need some mix in there. Psyche meds, Pain management, etc etc. We survive on a mix of scripts: ALFs, Pain management, regular meds. No way you can survive on just regular meds. Walmart killed that years ago. And 10,000 is a ridiculous amount of money for rent. I would like an update on this store.

Doctor M

I am pretty new to this. From what I've seen we typically only make 1 dollar on some drugs like Lisinopril and maybe 2 or 3 dollars on Metformin. What helps your margins it seems is when you get a script for Cefditoren or some of the other high end generics like a Prevacid. I've heard that most pharmacies average somewhere between 6-9 dollars per script. Also 200 a day seems like average for independents. What is your experience?

We have a pretty decent front end that helps. A lot of older pharmacists turn their nose at the front end but if you can find a way to do 200-300k dollars of front end business it helps.

As far as rent most of the stores I've heard of pay anywhere from 3-6k a month. If you had to pay 10,000 I don't see the store making it. At least not on the pharmacy itself.

 

[Doctor M]

Doctor M

I am pretty new to this. From what I've seen we typically only make 1 dollar on some drugs like Lisinopril and maybe 2 or 3 dollars on Metformin. What helps your margins it seems is when you get a script for Cefditoren or some of the other high end generics like a Prevacid. I've heard that most pharmacies average somewhere between 6-9 dollars per script. Also 200 a day seems like average for independents. What is your experience?

We have a pretty decent front end that helps. A lot of older pharmacists turn their nose at the front end but if you can find a way to do 200-300k dollars of front end business it helps.

As far as rent most of the stores I've heard of pay anywhere from 3-6k a month. If you had to pay 10,000 I don't see the store making it. At least not on the pharmacy itself.

6 to 9 dollars a script would be fine if you kept your overhead low. We avg a little bit higher than that in the retail side. on the LTC side, the avg is around 18-20 dollars a script.

 

[DedicationNSU11]

Doctor M,

I will be starting pharmacy school this August and I would like to know if you recommend enrolling in the dual PharmD/MBA program at my school - I would eventually like to own my own pharmacy one day just like yourself. Any advice would be appreciated on what I can do now that I am beginning my journey.

 

[southpharmindy]

Dr M.

How are things looking with your store? Are you still as excited about independent pharmacy as you were a few years ago?

 

[Doctor M]

Dr M.

How are things looking with your store? Are you still as excited about independent pharmacy as you were a few years ago?

Things are really well and everyday is a new day. Needing a vacation, but we figure work hard now, rest later.

 

[southpharmindy]

So Dr. M I know you said that you have been getting more into compounding. Have you found any drugs that are especially helpful for certain indications? There are so many different combinations that it is overwhelming.

I agree with you in that I think compounding is something that independents really need to focus on.

 

[Doctor M]

So Dr. M I know you said that you have been getting more into compounding. Have you found any drugs that are especially helpful for certain indications? There are so many different combinations that it is overwhelming.

I agree with you in that I think compounding is something that independents really need to focus on.

Right now, we are doing minimal non-sterile compounding. We are waiting on some audits to go away and then we are going full on slaught with the sterile compounding. We are far away from being ready to be a full compounding pharmacy. I would say by this time next year, ask me the same question and i will be able to answer your question.

 

[Jell0]

I'm a 6th year student with several years of retail chain experience under my belt. Recently, I've been thinking about leaving the company and starting my career with a small independent chain (4-6 pharmacies). Hopefully, within 5 years I'll gain the knowledge and financial foundation necessary to start my own business. My setbacks at the moment is that I might not get a pharmacist position immediately post-graduation (at the independent) and by quitting the chain now, I'm cutting off my ties with the company.

 

[OpyTinker]

Jell0, I am in the same position. I have been looking into financing and there are options where you can open right from graduation. I am going to start a question looking for a partner in rural Ohio. Good way to be able to open and reduce the workload and risk. Also should result in better opportunities for expanding and opening other stores in the future. Good luck in your search.

 

[abiarx]

There's an independent pharmacy in my area that is looking to hire pharmacists. However, the people that own the pharmacy are NOT pharmacists. Being a recent grad, do you think it is wise to accept a job offer if you will recieve no formal training under a licensed pharmacist? I feel like i would just be going in there blindly and it could become stressful.

 

[2013mcbPharmD]

First off...I am so happy that I ran across this thread tonight! I will be graduacting from pharmacy school in June of this year. I am a 28 married female with no children and my only debt is my gi-freaking-normous student loans (pharmacy only~$165,000). I have worked in an awesome independant pharmacy since I was 16 and (after my 8th rotation) I realize that independant pharmacy is the reason I wanted to become a pharmacist in the first place. I am *fairly young, I have put off having babies, and I am very driven to open my own pharmacy in rural KY. I have recieved very mixed feedback from mentors, friends and family...but mostly I have been given support and a "your're going to do what you want to anyway...so good luck" response. I really want opinions from people who aren't afraid to shoot me straight and who actually know what they are talking about. SO PLEASE....GUIDE ME
I come from a county of about 15,000 people. We do have a wal-mart...but that's it. The largest city in this county has 3 independant pharmacys (1 is my current employeer) and WM with 4 family DR's and 4-5 DMD's...15 miles down the road, there is a smaller city with 1 doctor office (which is connected to a building that was formerly a pharmacy) but no pharmacy (pharmacist retired...or died or something about 10 years ago). The city in question has a population of about 1,000-1,4000 people, many of whom are hard working farmers and eldely. Also, keep in mind that just as many people who live there see the 4 doctors down the road, as they do the one in their city and all have to go there to the dentist, hospital, clinic, or ER. Anyway... I have decided that I NEED to put in an independant pharmacy in this city and offer services that the other pharmacies have not quite stayed up to date on..(oh like IMMUNIZATIONS?!?, MTM, etc) or have time for (like non-sterile compounding, delivery, BP and BG monitoring, etc). My husband and I have about $200K of collateral in our home, farm, equipment, etc. but I do still have these looming student loans. My family and in-laws together have the means to "back me" and the desire for me to fulfill my dreams and I see getting a 200K (or so) buisness loan very possible (because this is America for goodness sake!). Rent for the building will be less than $1000/month, I have also staked out a very ambitious worker who I trust can bear a larger load than most, very personable and who would be avaliable to work ASAP. I can also purchase compounding materials cheap from a community pharmacist that has recently sold out to FRED's pharmacy Many residents have expressed to me personally that they want a pharmacy back in their community. With all of this being said, I am a little concerned about the recommendations of working in a chain for 2-5 years before starting my own pharmacy and paying down half of my student loan befoe undertaking more debt. I do have the possible option of my current boss becoming a silent partner if I choose to open this pharmacy. I don't know what my best option at this point is however. I am really going to have to sell this idea hard to my boss and provide a solid buisness plan before he commits (understandable). He would also be very beneficial in helping me set up the pharmacy and we would have the ability to rotate techs through, join his well established buying groups, etc, etc.
I am not afraid of failing...if I do I will just have to work somewhere else...I just really can't live not knowing "what if". I just would like any suggestions or PMs to help me proceed and learn more about your personal experiences. I have a list of expenses, accountants, lawyers, top 200 inventory starters, ideas...but I am positive I could learn more from you guys. I am so sorry for this ridiculously long post...I have insomnia tonight because I am filled with excitement that I have decided to follow through and take a chance...NO MATTER WHAT YOU HEIFFERS SAY... seriously kidding. Feedback appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Unchained]

Work for 5 years while paying down your debt and building a cash reserve. You don't want to rely on collateral and family loans. I'm not up with the current business lending environment but I don't believe you will get a business loan from what you have revealed. Pharmacy is a very challenging environment. You are going to start a business with no customers, high inventory costs, low gov't reimbursements, insurance audits, soon to come strict compounding laws, and heavy regulation. I would also be hesitant with Obamacare on the horizon. You have many of the pieces in place. You could make a big mistake early in your career and not get another chance. Place your dream on hold for a few years and consider it then. Your chances of success will be much greater.

 

[southpharmindy]

I always tell people to talk to some of the wholesalers and buying groups. Mckesson has a good website www.Rxownership.com. Amerisource also has a program in place but I don't think they have a website. NCPA also has an ownership workshop.

The best thing for you to do is work for a few years at an independent. Build relationships with some banks and wholesalers. Try to save at least 50k. Know what you are getting into. You would be much better off trying to buy into an existing pharmacy that has an established customer base and cash flow.

Love your enthusiasm. I wish more young people had the desire to go out on their own and take back our profession.

I'm not sure of your location. You're in a county of 12,000 people and 3 established pharmacies. There is 1 clinic in the other town where you wish to build your pharmacy. What kind of volume do the other pharmacies have? Are there any hospitals or specialists in your area? How many patients do this clinic see per day?

 

[owlegrad]

Just curios how things are going with one of our favorite independent pharmacy owners?

 

[kvl1027]

Something I am curious about is front store. It is probably taken for granted if you don't own your own store.

How much of a front store do you have? How much of your time is spent dealing with issues other than pharmacy operations, like making sure you ice cream in stock, etc?

What would you say was your main motivation for opening your own store? Has it lived up to/exceeded your expectations so far?

At my independent we have a decent sized front-end. I have seen some pharmacies go overboard with the front-end, Greeting cards, candy, gifts, etc. This is not something I want to deal with, but they can drive some revenue and some have been very successful with this model.

We have a pretty serious DME business and we do IV Home Infusion, which helps our bottom-line.

The front-end is not a huge money-maker, but it could sink you if your customers are coming in to fill scripts and when they need some IBU or Senna, you never have any. A lot of customers are looking for convenience.

We needed a serious update on our front-end and we could have let the wholesaler re-do it with new fixtures and signage, but they will charge an arm&leg. I went to IKEA and completely updated our shelving and waiting area for just over $1000, only about $8000 cheaper than Cardinal quoted us.