How Many Of You Guys Are Wealthy or Living Paycheck To Paycheck?

[Momus]

Once you save more than 25x of your yearly expenses, you can practically retire if you want to. I did it in 8 yrs saving. That's the beauty of living a frugal life. You don't need much at all. I can spend 80% of my net income (for hookers and cocaine) for the next 30 yrs and only save 20%, I will still retire damn fu3king well when I am 65.

I have my friends, the gym, my random company (girls), good food, financial security and roof over my head until I die. What more do I want? I don't need flashy cars /clothing /brand electronics /bragging pictures /fancy house. That's all bullsh1t to me. No one cares about this but your ego.

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[mustang sally]

Interesting thread.

Unlike many who graduated at a young age and have time on their side, I was a bit older when I became an RPh, and I have all those things that make it seemingly impossible to get out of debt: 2.5 kids, a dog (and his never ending vet bills), a nice home, daycare bills, etc. plus my whopping student loans. I always wonder how people are able to throw 2-3 grand at their student loans each month, but I think I probably just have too many bills to make much headway. With the interest rates on my loans it seems impossible that I will ever pay them off. Just keep trooping every month and hopefully I will get somewhere someday. I wouldn't consider myself as living paycheck to paycheck but there's not a lot of money left over at the end of the month either.

 

[owlegrad]

Interesting thread.

Unlike many who graduated at a young age and have time on their side, I was a bit older when I became an RPh, and I have all those things that make it seemingly impossible to get out of debt: 2.5 kids, a dog (and his never ending vet bills), a nice home, daycare bills, etc. plus my whopping student loans. I always wonder how people are able to throw 2-3 grand at their student loans each month, but I think I probably just have too many bills to make much headway. With the interest rates on my loans it seems impossible that I will ever pay them off. Just keep trooping every month and hopefully I will get somewhere someday. I wouldn't consider myself as living paycheck to paycheck but there's not a lot of money left over at the end of the month either.

Have you refinanced the student loans? Or maybe you have a compelling reason not to? I only ask cause you mentioned the interest rate.

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[mustang sally]

Have you refinanced the student loans? Or maybe you have a compelling reason not to? I only ask cause you mentioned the interest rate.

No, I have been debating it for awhile but I'm still kind of nervous about giving up the perceived benefits of federal loans. Plus I'm doing IBR (working on switching over to REPAYE or whatever the new plan is called), with the hopes of getting PLSF. Just not sure somedays if it will all work out in the end.

I think when I was reading some SoFi material a few months ago that it said the max amount you could refinance is $100,000. Obviously I have more debt than that, so I'm wondering if people just keep some of their original student loans going or what. I could be mistaken about this, but I remember thinking it was a drawback for me.

 

[meyabyte]

All I can say for myself is that it's nice to have a disposable income to feed my material wants.

 

[owlegrad]

No, I have been debating it for awhile but I'm still kind of nervous about giving up the perceived benefits of federal loans. Plus I'm doing IBR (working on switching over to REPAYE or whatever the new plan is called), with the hopes of getting PLSF. Just not sure somedays if it will all work out in the end.

I think when I was reading some SoFi material a few months ago that it said the max amount you could refinance is $100,000. Obviously I have more debt than that, so I'm wondering if people just keep some of their original student loans going or what. I could be mistaken about this, but I remember thinking it was a drawback for me.

Gotcha. They will refi the whole loan though, or at least they did when I refi'ed. Good Luck with PLSF!

 

[297point1]

Once you save more than 25x of your yearly expenses, you can practically retire if you want to.

I've never seen this 25x value mentioned before...is that your own target, or one that is promoted by financial planners?

 

[Momus]

I've never seen this 25x value mentioned before...is that your own target, or one that is promoted by financial planners?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/moneybu...be-based-on-expenses-not-income/#2e11342e2029
http://moneyboss.com/how-much-to-save-for-retirement/
https://wallethacks.com/money-ratios/

 

[grizzlesgrizzlies]

What more do I want? I don't need flashy cars /clothing /brand electronics /bragging pictures /fancy house. That's all bullsh1t to me. No one cares about this but your ego.

Making decisions based on ego prove to be very costly. Designer brands, luxury cars, mcmansions... all of which cost a premium to satisfy one's ego

 

[ancienbon]

While I won't say that I am living paycheck to paycheck, I don't have much money left after paying my mortgage and my student loans. It seems that there are a few fortunate people here who graduate with little or no student loans in their early twenties. That was not the case for me, as I have been paying about 2000 dollars every month since I graduated 6 years ago. Granted in 3 years, I will have no student loans, and I cant wait for that day to come.
I was always reluctant to buy a home. Now that I have a child, I decided It was time to buy a home . And I had to buy one in a very good school district, and of course it is expensive.

 

[radio frequency]

No, I have been debating it for awhile but I'm still kind of nervous about giving up the perceived benefits of federal loans. Plus I'm doing IBR (working on switching over to REPAYE or whatever the new plan is called), with the hopes of getting PLSF. Just not sure somedays if it will all work out in the end.

I think when I was reading some SoFi material a few months ago that it said the max amount you could refinance is $100,000. Obviously I have more debt than that, so I'm wondering if people just keep some of their original student loans going or what. I could be mistaken about this, but I remember thinking it was a drawback for me.

Your situation is the perfect one for PSLF. Don't forget to try to max out your 403b to reduce your taxable income. You'll be debt free in ten years or less if it works! Don't refinance if this is your goal.

 

[6GodPharm]

What is living comfortably in your 60's? Same way you live the rest of your life? You're young once. I'm not saying buy a private jet, but we work hard for where we are at. It's ok to spend once in a while. No need to be frugal on everything. Whats the point of driving a beat up car and eating tacobell? I'm living frugal until my loan is paid off. I'm down from about 173k to 145k since April. Goal is to wipe this out by December of next year (working almost 50-55 hours a week). After that I will spend money here or there but also save. I'm already doing a 401k at company match, will start roth IRA and bump my 401k to 10% when my loan is paid off. Will save some monthly but some you are crazy. I'm not going to be driving around in a honda at taco bell. I'm going to get or lease expensive cars and eat at nice places. Until then back to the top ramen I go. Most of us become RPH around 25-30 years old. You have already been living frugal for that time plus your loan period. Live a little

 

[Singuy]

What is living comfortably in your 60's? Same way you live the rest of your life? You're young once. I'm not saying buy a private jet, but we work hard for where we are at. It's ok to spend once in a while. No need to be frugal on everything. Whats the point of driving a beat up car and eating tacobell? I'm living frugal until my loan is paid off. I'm down from about 173k to 145k since April. Goal is to wipe this out by December of next year (working almost 50-55 hours a week). After that I will spend money here or there but also save. I'm already doing a 401k at company match, will start roth IRA and bump my 401k to 10% when my loan is paid off. Will save some monthly but some you are crazy. I'm not going to be driving around in a honda at taco bell. I'm going to get or lease expensive cars and eat at nice places. Until then back to the top ramen I go. Most of us become RPH around 25-30 years old. You have already been living frugal for that time plus your loan period. Live a little

I absolutely agree to what you are saying. You are doing exactly what my class is teaching. Frugal living until debt is paid off while setting yourself up for the expensive 30s(house, kids, life). If you want to continue extreme frugal living after the debts are paid off, then early retirement/financial independence is your next goal(retire before 45)...if not then enjoy life and retire in your 60s.

Most people think financial independence as a pipe dream so they don't see a need to ever reach this early in life. I show people the possibilities of reaching FI in your 40s which blow my student's mind. I use myself as an example, in which it took my wife 3.5 years and myself 9 years out of school to reach FI with 186k worth of student loans.

One of my co-worker who is also a RPH+OD couple with 20k of student loans from the 1990s haven't reached FI after 18 years out in the field...not even close. They have a mortgage and CC debt...and just took out 401k money for house renovation. This is what happens when you put 3 teens through 70k worth of private school/year, 3 gym memberships, 900 dollar monthly utility bill, renting a high rise beach front condo for a year, and blow 3k on a beachfront penthouse suite every two months in Miami. When asked if they have any of their teen's college tuition on standby..the answer is no.... All that money that went to private school all their lives...and at the end their kids will end up with 6 figure debts after its all said and done....sigh

 

[Dr Wario]

. Most of us become RPH around 25-30 years old. You have already been living frugal for that time plus your loan period. Live a little

This sentiment is exactly what keeps corp giants in power over the healthcare field as we continue to slave for them. So many practitioners give lip service to wanting to improve patient care and yet they ignore the very thing that would be the single greatest stride forward in this pursuit. Please keep "living a little".

 

[PAtoPharm]

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[Sine Cura]

At least you can take the example of people who didn't plan accordingly for the future, and try to do the exact opposite.

 

[Eichhoernchen]

Even more so than the job market saturation, I think that's the biggest downside to pharmacy -- aside from annual 2.5% raises or whatever most pharmacists get, there isn't much room for increasing someone's income by a substantial amount (... unless they open an independent pharmacy? which seems to be a lot less commonplace these days), whereas doctors and dentists (apparently dentists more so these days than most docs) naturally earn more money as they get faster and their skills become more honed.

I never realized how pathetic those raises are until I started talking to people in other fields who get 20,30% raises and it's completely normal. there isn't much room to grow financially in pharmacy or career wise too. All my friends in Finance, Accounting, etc, may have started out making less but soon enough have surpassed me. And that is people with Bachelor's and no student debt. Yes, I live comfortable, but I am still paying debt and stressing out about it for the next years. No 401K, no house, etc. I still have to budget to make my money last.

 

[alprazolamborghini]

I feel you. Friends I knew from undergrad who had jobs in IT and accounting etc. started with around 60-70k. Yet, in 3-5 years, they got promoted to manager position which pays like 90-120k. Again, we are talking about no debt. Financially, pharmacy just sucks nowadays. It is the sad truth.

 

[alprazolamborghini]

This thread is kind of depressing. In a financial sense, it seems like pharmacy is becoming a field of diminishing returns (based on the number of pharmacists who seem to be having a very hard time managing to save up retirement money, and most are living a "standard" middle-class lifestyle. Obviously there's nothing wrong with that, but it almost begs the question... what's the point in spending that much time/money in school to nearly struggle financially? I was just talking with a guy I went to undergrad with who graduated from dental school last year (no residency), and he is already on track to make $300k/year within 2 years. Apparently, that's one of the nice things about dentistry -- as your skills improve and you become faster at doing procedures, it's almost inevitable that you will make more money. Also, many dental residencies cost another $100k - $200k in tuition to complete, but most specialists make at least $300k (median income for oral surgeons is $550k), so there is some "light at the end of the tunnel," so to speak, when it comes to expecting to be able to pay off loans and start saving up for retirement, buy a monstrosity of a house, sports cars, etc..

Even more so than the job market saturation, I think that's the biggest downside to pharmacy -- aside from annual 2.5% raises or whatever most pharmacists get, there isn't much room for increasing someone's income by a substantial amount (... unless they open an independent pharmacy? which seems to be a lot less commonplace these days), whereas doctors and dentists (apparently dentists more so these days than most docs) naturally earn more money as they get faster and their skills become more honed.

Making 300k/yr as a associate dentist is really tough. Yea, they have much better chance of making much more than pharmacists but you also have to think about their loans which is around 300-400k.

 

[PAtoPharm]

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[rxdawg21]

I don't understand these people going >150k+ in debt to do Pharmacy. There are so many other career fields that have a much better financial return then something like pharmacy. And anyone who thinks that the majority of retail has a work life balance comparable to other non-healthcare fields is delusional. If you can do PSLF I can see your argument of going that much in debt, but the majority can't do that and who knows if that gravy train will ever happen, they can easily means test it and not violate there master agreement.

I wouldn't change what I did due to my personality, work ethic, and lucking out and meeting my wife and getting a job that is rather rare (eh I probably would have done Physical Therapy). However, in today's market with school costs and jobs no way in the world I would be entering pharmacy school and shelling out >100k in debt. Remember kids, if you take out 120-130, your debt load is 150k by the time you graduate.

I really don't think students understand the tax burden, loan burden, and the pressure to live a normal life (150-300k house, take 2 vacations a year, start a family, buy a 20-30k car (if somehow you weren't fortunate enough for your parents to have gotten you one in hs/college and you don't want to drive a POS).

It is astonishing to me how well my friends have done in the banking world (general finance type degree, loan underwriter type job) and risk management world (bachelors in risk management, masters paid for by work while working full time). Both started making money at 22 and have great benefits and hours

 

[PAtoPharm]

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[rxdawg21]

Nowadays, it is pretty hard to complete pharmacy school without taking on at least $120k-$130k in debt. Here in the southeast, even most of the public pharmacy schools are charging $20-25k/year for tuition, and if a student has to move to live in the vicinity of the school for the entire 4-year duration, then that's 4 years of living expenses they also have to take out a loan on. So when you consider that tuition alone is $80k-$100k, it's fairly easy to hit $150k total in loans, especially if the student goes out to eat on a regular basis during the 4 years. Also, consider that there is only ONE public pharmacy school in GA, so the vast majority of students will attend private schools that cost $33k-$45k/year in tuition. I've heard of students at South University and Mercer easily graduating with nearly $200k in loans after 4 years.

Correct, I think it's a very foolish decision. Would not recommend. Many career choices with better work life balance paying constitently in 70k plus range. You can go to uga for less then 100. Work and make 10k a year (doable) and most your living expenses are covered. Hope scholarship would help pay some of the first two years of pharmacy school. Shouldn't have to take out more then 100k if you go 6 years total.

 

[PAtoPharm]

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[Momus]

I already used up my Hope scholarship to get my undergrad degree, so I would have to just take out a loan to pay for the whole thing if I went to UGA. I've been catching up with some of the guys I know who have recently graduated from dental school, and some of these guys are on track to make $300k/year in the next few years. I one guy who is in a 5-year oral surgery residency. Sure, he won't graduate and start making real money for 4-5 more years, but according to the ADA, the median income for oral surgeons is $550k. So he'll make in 1 year what a pharmacist takes 4-7 years to earn (depending on whether you're talking about a retail or hospital pharmacist). I guess the point I'm trying to make is, if someone is going to spend 4-6 (depends on whether they do a residency) more years in school after getting an undergrad degree, it really doesn't seem like the pay-off is there to justify spending that much time/money pursuing pharmacy. Even if someone is "passionate" about pharmacy, isn't it necessary to have an objective perspective at some point and recognize a foolish investment when they see one (kind of how like how being passionate about art history doesn't make spending $200k+ to get a masters degree at a private art school a wise/justifiable investment)?

I am sure everyone who wants to be an oral surgeon will be one. Just like everyone who wants to be a cardiologist/ortho gets to be one.

 

[PAtoPharm]

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[rxdawg21]

I used to think that you had to be some sort of super genius to match into oral surgery (or any of the other dental residencies), but the guys I know who have done it are just normal everyday people who have always had to study a lot. There are also more dental residency programs now than there used to be, so it's easier to match than it used to be. As of this year, there is even a new for-profit, "pay-to-play" orthodontics residency in Atlanta. Obviously I don't actually know how hard or easy it is to match into a dental residency, but from browsing the dental forums, most all-around good students have a shot at getting into orthodontics if they apply to lots of programs around the country. IMO, it would still be worth it even if someone had to work as a general dentist for a year or two to make themselves more competitive. There are also less competitive residencies like periodontics, prosthodontics, endodontics, etc. that offer $250k-$350k median incomes in exchange for a 4-day workweek. Anyways, in keeping with the theme of the thread, it just seems like a dental school graduate (residency or not) would have a much easier time paying off $150k+ in loans (while being able to save up money at the same time, instead of living paycheck-to-paycheck) than someone who spends the same amount of money going to pharmacy school these days.

In fact, I just found out the other day that a local pharmacist I know is actually living with a ROOMMATE because they're having a hard time managing their student loan payments along with their various house bills. Really?! Pharmacy is that tough these days?

I think you are starting to understand my posts. Being a dentist and working a Monday through Friday schedule or even having a short or no Friday is a way better worklife then pharmacy where twice a week you work til 9-10 and every 2-3 weekends.

Pharmacy isn't that rough these days, it's rough for those foolish who took out way too much debt and aren't qualified or banking on pslf. In your situation it would most likely be a bad decision to go 200k in debt for a 120k salary that may or may not increase with inflation. It's not even the fact that the jobs and job market isn't what it use to be, it's the fact that people are going into debt 1.5-2 times there gross salary with little opportunity for overtime or advancement to make that investment worth it.

 

[PAtoPharm]

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[Sine Cura]

From what I've observed circa 2009-2013, many people in pharmacy school didn't do their homework and don't understand personal finance (this was a 0-6 program, so somewhat understandable). My 0-6 program also had a decent number of students who had their cost of attendance completely covered by their parents (exactly zero people who transferred into this program).

 

[Carol is Alpha]

From what I've observed circa 2009-2013, many people in pharmacy school didn't do their homework and don't understand personal finance (this was a 0-6 program, so somewhat understandable). My 0-6 program also had a decent number of students who had their cost of attendance completely covered by their parents (exactly zero people who transferred into this program).

Mmmh. What happened since 2009? What enabled any idiot to go to pharmacy school? Oh yeah, this....

 

[rxdawg21]

Trust me, I understand where you are coming from and agree with you 100% now. To add to your list point -- want to hear something unbelievable (or at least, to me it was)? Most dental residencies actually COST tuition money, and they tend to be very expensive. The new orthodontics residency in Atlanta takes 3 years to complete and costs $60k/year, so you're talking about at least $200k with interest included. That's in addition to the debt the resident has from dental school. So at the end of dental school + residency, a new orthodontist/oral surgeon/periodontist/endodontist is looking at graduating with potentially $450k-$500k in student loans. However, they're also entering professions for which the median incomes are well over $300k, and for most dentists, their earning potential dramatically increases as they get faster and their practice grows. So I guess it's not just about considering the arbitrary number when it comes to deciding how much is "too much" in terms of student loans -- you really need to make a relative comparison of loan amount vs. earning potential. In other words, sure, on a common sense level, it seems like it would be a really bad idea to take out $500k in loans to spend 7 years in dental school & residency, but if that $500k secures your spot in a profession where the average worker earns $400k/year, is it really such a bad idea?

From an investing perspective, is $500k considered a worthwhile amount to invest to generate a consistent return of $300k-$400k (dental specialist)? It's gotta be a safer bet than taking out at least $200k in loans to make $80k as a residency-trained hospital pharmacist, right?

I am not familiar on dentists salaries, however I would say a general rule of thumb is your student loan burden should not exceed 1 year of your gross income. On a 500k student loan burden you are paying 33k a year (at 6.55% interest rate) just in interest on that loan. If you are truly making 400k (find that hard to be the norm), you are going to see 220-250k after taxes. Plug 120-150k of that into student loans and your balance would be about 400k after year 1. So could pay off student loans in 5 years, while still living on 80k (conservative from your 400k income statement) or more.

Pharmacist (typical pharmacist) you are going to pull in 70ish k take home after contributing a decent amount to 401k, insurance, and taxes. You have 200k in loans of which 13k will accrue in year one. You live off 30k and plow 40k into your loans. your loan balance is now around 173k. It will take you 6 to pay off this loan all while living off 30ish k.
Now had you taken out only 100k which is what I personally would not go over, you can have your loans paid off in 3 years or 4-5 if you live on more then 30k a year.

I think its clear option 1 is better, now if you took the typical dentist salary of 150-200k (according to http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/dentist/salary) you are pretty much in the same situation as pharmacy just different job dealing with direct contact with peoples mouths, plus a minimum of 1 extra year of school. You could handle a slightly larger loan load in that situation

 

[Dred Pirate]

I've never seen this 25x value mentioned before...is that your own target, or one that is promoted by financial planners?

it has to do with the - you can pull 4% out of your retirement account philosophy -same may argue against it if you are doing this starting in the 50's thou

 

[rxdawg21]

it has to do with the - you can pull 4% out of your retirement account philosophy -same may argue against it if you are doing this starting in the 50's thou

Theoretically you can't access 401k before 59 1/2 without penalty of 10% in addition to taxes. Here are the exceptions however.

• You die and the account is paid to your beneficiary
• You become disabled
• You terminate employment and are at least 55 years old
• You withdraw an amount less than is allowable as a medical expense deduction

• You begin substantially equal periodic payments (see Rule 72(t))

• Your withdrawal is related to a qualified domestic relations order

Most people that retire early have some sort of substantial taxable account/savings account

 

[Dred Pirate]

Theoretically you can't access 401k before 59 1/2 without penalty of 10% in addition to taxes. Here are the exceptions however.

• You die and the account is paid to your beneficiary
• You become disabled
• You terminate employment and are at least 55 years old
• You withdraw an amount less than is allowable as a medical expense deduction

• You begin substantially equal periodic payments (see Rule 72(t))

• Your withdrawal is related to a qualified domestic relations order

Most people that retire early have some sort of substantial taxable account/savings account

you can if you are 55 and no longer work for the employer - also you have Roth IRA available and you can pull out the principle

 

[PumpkinSmasher]

My wife and I have been playing catch up on retirement and building overall net wealth. My wife spent 7 years in training after medical school and I started working right after pharmacy school. I have working 5 years and she has been an attending for 3 years. Luckily her student loans are only 140k and I have 75k left both at sub 3% rates. We did buy a house and both cars are paid off. Saving for college fund for kiddos, emergency fund, vacation fund, maxing out 2 457bs and one 403b plan and will start ising back door roth this year.

Still even with solid household income it takes a while to catch up to friends who have been successful in business and working since 22 without debt.

My wife and I both have monday to Friday business hour jobs that we love but I would not recommend pharmacy to any high school student

 

[txpharmguy]

If possible, I'd try to live on one paycheck per month, with the other going towards student loans. Invest early (at least to your employer match). Sure, you've worked hard and deserve to reward yourself after finishing pharmacy school. Take that vacation. Buy a new car. Just be sensible. A two year old low mileage sedan is probably much nicer than most pharmacy students drove in school. Just don't go out and get a $70k SUV. Get that student loan payed off asap. Then start saving for a house and increasing your contribution to your retirement accounts, IRA and 401k.

 

[Its Z]

I teach a pharmacist financial class at the hospital I work at and am curious who is wealthy or living paycheck to paycheck here and the reasons why.

Statically speaking, over 30% of household making >150k/year have less than 10k in savings so if you are living paycheck to paycheck, you are definitely not the only one. An open discussion may help future PharmDs look for pitfalls and align their expectations accordingly. I have co-workers who are PharmDs ranging from millionaires to having 100k in credit card debts. I would say only 20%-30% of my co-workers are financially successful per given age.

There's a huge delta between from pay check to paycheck vs. wealthy. Certainly a millionaire with a 7 digit net worth can still live check to check if the asset is not an income source.

 

[Ackj]

Direct deposit hit around 1am. Made a loan payment, rent payment, a few transfers to other various accounts, and by 1:30am my account is virtually empty again. At least I finally have a positive net worth.

 

[ldiot]

Theoretically you can't access 401k before 59 1/2 without penalty of 10% in addition to taxes. Here are the exceptions however.

• You die and the account is paid to your beneficiary
• You become disabled
• You terminate employment and are at least 55 years old
• You withdraw an amount less than is allowable as a medical expense deduction

• You begin substantially equal periodic payments (see Rule 72(t))

• Your withdrawal is related to a qualified domestic relations order

Most people that retire early have some sort of substantial taxable account/savings account

All you need is 5 years of living expenses. Say you are 45, live on 60k/year, and want to retire. At age 45 you rollover 75k from your Trad 401k into your Roth IRA. You will pay taxes but no penalty, and since you aren't working anyways the taxes will be lower than when you were. You can pull this money (~60k after the taxes) from your Roth IRA in 5 years at age 50 with no additional taxes/penalty. So in essence you just withdrew from your 401k without penalty and the money is available at age 50. You repeat this process every year. You just need the cash on hand/money in taxable account/Roth IRA principle to get you from age 45-50.

In the real world though, like you said, most people that retire significantly early have savings or have just sold a small business/got inheritance/etc.

 

[Eichhoernchen]

In fact, I just found out the other day that a local pharmacist I know is actually living with a ROOMMATE because they're having a hard time managing their student loan payments along with their various house bills. Really?! Pharmacy is that tough these days?

Lol I live with a roommate. It's normal in my area. Nothing wrong with it, instead of boyfriend/husband, you have roomie.

 

[PAtoPharm]

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[PAtoPharm]

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[waiter]

is $2000 too much to spend on a vacation?

 

[gwarm01]

The only reason I'm not living paycheck to paycheck is because I have a second job working one weekend a month and all of that money goes directly into a savings account. My main paycheck is 10% into retirement, then the rest to mortgage, student loans, car payment, and credit card payment.

I'm able to stash away $1000/month, so I'm probably doing better than the average American, but I know I could be doing so much better. I live in a low cost city and have a very modest home. Two car payments hurt, not to mention the $1200/month in student loans. My wife and I basically live with very little restrictions on spending, so we go out to eat a lot and make a lot of little purchases that add up over the month.

We managed to go all week cooking every meal at home, so that's a start!

 

[gwarm01]

$210k in loans (what I will have from pharmacy school) on a hospital pharmacist's salary of $80k.

$80k for a hospital pharmacist? That's lower than anything I've ever seen.

I started at $96k with $140k in loans and still managed to afford my $1500/mo apartment and buy two new cars, go on vacations, put money into my retirement account, and still go out whenever I wanted.

I could and should have lived more responsibly, but I got by just fine. Things aren't as bad as you think, although if people are really starting at $80k then who knows.

 

[PharmDBro2017]

$80k for a hospital pharmacist? That's lower than anything I've ever seen.

I started at $96k with $140k in loans and still managed to afford my $1500/mo apartment and buy two new cars, go on vacations, put money into my retirement account, and still go out whenever I wanted.

I could and should have lived more responsibly, but I got by just fine. Things aren't as bad as you think, although if people are really starting at $80k then who knows.

96k before or after taxes?

 

[gwarm01]

96k before or after taxes?

Before taxes but it was in a no income tax state.

With shift differential and a few overtime days I averaged 105k, but I felt that was way low considering the cost of living in the area.

 

[6GodPharm]

is $2000 too much to spend on a vacation?

I don't think so, especially if it's once every 5-6 months. Is it $2000 for just one person or multiple?
Also depends how much you make. If you decided hospital was your route and make $48/hr and have huge student loans then maybe yeah because thats a whole paycheck. If you're making high 60's to 70's then it's manageable.

 

[rxdawg21]

I have seen

$80k for a hospital pharmacist? That's lower than anything I've ever seen.

I started at $96k with $140k in loans and still managed to afford my $1500/mo apartment and buy two new cars, go on vacations, put money into my retirement account, and still go out whenever I wanted.

I could and should have lived more responsibly, but I got by just fine. Things aren't as bad as you think, although if people are really starting at $80k then who knows.

I have seen 80ish k for a hospital in Macon, but that is low compared to most other institutions in the state. For a staff job with little or no experience you should be right around 95-100k here in Georgia.

I too have been very fortunate with pharmacy and feel I am in a lot better situation then fellow 13 classmates mainly due to being in the right place and right time and willingness to live in a small town that isn't desirable to most my peers.

I am fine with my choice, but to pretend my choice and the choices people are making now to go into pharmacy are equivalent is disingenuous. Even in Georgia the hope scholarship has completely changed and doesn't pay near what it did for me and tuition keeps climbing.

PAtopharm you keep talking about orthodontist salaries, when I was talking about plain general dentist. I don't know how easy it is to specialize and get into the fellowship/residencies but I would imagine it is not a cake walk and you should plan for the worst. Having said that a general dentist still has a lot better worklife then a normal pharmacist

 

[Apotheker2015]

Can you please tell me how you can "living it up" with a RPH take home salary and a family?

If you have say 1 mil in investments by 40, your annual income is what you get being a RPH PLUS 70-80k/year in capital gaines/interest. There's only one way to truly live it up..and that's by having a large amount of $$$ in your investment making you money..what RPH makes at the end of the day is nothing more than a tool to build wealth..the actual take home money is chump change.

I like that. You are right. A pharmacist's salary is really a tool to build wealth whether it is investments or rental properties, etc. That's how I look at it, at least.