How many schools is too many?

[tpsreport]

Hey everyone,

I'm stuck at picking the number of programs to apply to. I have a list of about 85 programs at the moment, which is pretty much every single 3-year program with a level 1 trauma certification at the main site and is located on the East, South, and West coasts. Can you help me?

The problem is that I can't seem to find any reliable ranking of EM programs. It's like everything is by word of mouth, or by reputation. I was told by the director of EM clerkship at my school not to use Doximity because it's not accurate. What are some other resources I can use?

The worst part is that I'm not sure how competitive I am on the gradient of applicants. I'm meeting with my EM adviser again next week, but before I do, I'd like some input from other sources.

Here are my stats:
AMG at a state school in the north East.
Step 1 239
Step 2 266
Grades are all P, except H on home EM AI. Away AI in EM will happen in a month
Extras are ~10 publications (none first author), and a few volunteering experiences.

On a scale of 1 - 10, how competitive are my stats with 10 being the most?

I've been talking to a few EM docs here and have been told to apply to anywhere from 25 schools to 65 schools. The variety of information I've been told and the fact that almost none of the advice I've been given matches up to other advice is extremely frustrating. With EM being more competitive, using Google as an adviser also isn't reliable.

What do you think?

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[doggydog]

You're never going to find a reliable ranking of EM programs. The EM PDs make a concerted effort to avoid any sort of ranking system and do a very good job of doing so. A lot of us are in your same position of not knowing how many programs to apply to/where to apply to.

It seems like you're on the right track with your short list of programs that appeal to you. I would just listen to your advisor (or your school's PD) to help pare down the rest of that list. For whatever it's worth, classmates with similar stats to you have been told to apply to 30-40 programs. You seem to be very competitive as the SLOE and step 1/2 are allegedly very highly regarded by EM PDs.

 

[gman33]

There is no number that is too many, only too few.

No chance at finding a list of best programs.
That is impossible.
About the only way to rank a program is by completing a residency there and then giving feedback. Since no one completes more than one em residency, there is no way to compare the experience.

If you want to narrow it down start with geography and the try to figure out if there is any program in that area that seems to suck. If so, cross that off your list.

If you apply to 30-50 programs you should get plenty of interviews and match somewhere.

 

[deleted547339]

Looks like it's that time of the year again....

 

[Psai]

Oh no! How will you ever know that you're awesome without matching at a high ranking residency?

 

[racerwad]

Honestly, based on your criteria, my program is the best.

However, regardless of what "data" you find, what really matters is how you feel about said program. Program X could have all the resources you want, the fellowships you want, and faculty mentors who do the things you are interested in, but if the program just isn't where you want to be, it doesn't really matter. Try to visit as many as you can tolerate and go from there.

 

[Tenk]

ACGME accreditation status > geography > name > $$$.

First make sure there's no hiccups in the accreditation. Next apply based on where you want to live. Next apply to some nice programs and not nice programs. To find nice programs, go to website and look at the medical schools on matched residents, if they are all ivy leaguers, you know it's a nice one. Anything over 30-40 is overkill. Anything over 15-20 interviews is overkill unless you suck at interviewing. Good luck.

 

[alpinism]

Its really not that hard to figure out which programs are competitive.

Is it a well established program in a major city near the mountains or on the coast?

If the answer is yes then its competitive.

 

[CoolWhipp]

Its really not that hard to figure out which programs are competitive.

Is it a well established program in a major city near the mountains or on the coast?

If the answer is yes then its competitive.

lol

 

[gman33]

ACGME accreditation status > geography > name > $$$.

First make sure there's no hiccups in the accreditation. Next apply based on where you want to live. Next apply to some nice programs and not nice programs. To find nice programs, go to website and look at the medical schools on matched residents, if they are all ivy leaguers, you know it's a nice one. Anything over 30-40 is overkill. Anything over 15-20 interviews is overkill unless you suck at interviewing. Good luck.

All ivy leaguers?

This would make me think this may be the worst program in existence.

 

[Tenk]

All ivy leaguers?

This would make me think this may be the worst program in existence.

While I 100% agree with you and think that most ranking is a bunch of bull****, looking at this info can give an applicant good insight into their true chance of matching to said program if they are from a "lesser" school. Again, I don't agree with this but it's reality. Just go look at the websites if you need proof.

 

[gman33]

While I 100% agree with you and think that most ranking is a bunch of bull****, looking at this info can give an applicant good insight into their true chance of matching to said program if they are from a "lesser" school. Again, I don't agree with this but it's reality. Just go look at the websites if you need proof.

Reality of what?

Some programs may put a lot of stock into where someone went to med school.
If they do, they will likely rank candidates based on this criteria.

I will agree that if you apply to said program, your chances of matching are lower if you didn't go to a "top" school.

I will not concede that this makes it a good program.

 

[Tenk]

Reality of what?

Some programs may put a lot of stock into where someone went to med school.
If they do, they will likely rank candidates based on this criteria.

I will agree that if you apply to said program, your chances of matching are lower if you didn't go to a "top" school.

I will not concede that this makes it a good program.

I never said good program. I said nice program, as in it looks nice on paper. You're arguing something I already agreed with you about.

 

[Cinematographer]

Wait until you get actually invited for an interview, then decide which one is best for you.

 

[gman33]

I never said good program. I said nice program, as in it looks nice on paper. You're arguing something I already agreed with you about.

Ok got it.

I agree with that sentiment.

 

[tpsreport]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I think I'll just stick to my original plan and apply by location