how much can u make

[piwek]

hey everybody!does anybody know what the average salary of a general psychiatrist is (for a major u.s city such as chicago). is there a big increase if u do a fellowship and how hard is it to find a job after ur residency??? thanks

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[OldPsychDoc]

hey everybody!does anybody know what the average salary of a general psychiatrist is (for a major u.s city such as chicago).

plenty. expect to start $150K-200K

is there a big increase if u do a fellowship

only if you do child

and how hard is it to find a job after ur residency??? thanks

not a problem, esp if you're flexible.
dozens of positions go begging every year

 

[Anasazi23]

dozens of positions go begging every year

My resident mailbox is already flooded with offers for psychiatry work, and I'm just a PGY-III. It's a good feeling.

 

[jeff2005]

Do geropsychiatrists make less than non-fellowship trained psychiatrist?

 

[tatabox80]

Does the average salary differ on whether you do primarily outpt or inpt?

 

[needinformation]

Does the average salary differ on whether you do primarily outpt or inpt?

There is about a 10% increase for inpt work.
Forensics is where the $ is, not child.
Gero people don't make more- MediCare doesn't pay whole lot.

 

[DD214_DOC]

Where does C-L fellowship training fall on the increase salary list? If I did any fellowship training, that would be it.

 

[needinformation]

Where does C-L fellowship training fall on the increase salary list? If I did any fellowship training, that would be it.

I think it is hard to make your entire practice C-L, perhaps with a few exceptions: academia, or driving from big hospital to big hospital to big hospital. I think most CL folks do some CL and some outpt/inpt. I don't think insurance reimbursement policies differ based on 'type of service,' it is mainly how much time you spent with someone and exactly what you did, for instance, a 50 min outpt therapy hour gets less than a 50 min session with 'neuropsych testing.' Then, there is supply and demand- thus child people can demand more $ than your average adult psychiatrist. However, forensics people charge attorney type rates.

 

[Anasazi23]

It depends on whether you're talking county/hospital clinic or private practice.

The former makes a salary similar to inpatient. The latter can have earning potentials approaching 200-300k, depending on your fees.

You won't get rich billing medicaid. Though you can make a living for sure.

The money comes in private fees:
i.e. $400 for initial 35-40 min. eval (2 daily)
$175 25 minute sessions at 8 patients daily, equals

$2200/day
$48,400/month (22 working days)
$532,400/year (one month vacation)

Of course, that's gross, and assuming full schedule, no no-shows, and full reimbursement. After the above is said and done, it's reasonable to look at $300k+ for high-end private practice.

 

[Dartos Vader]

I just did a psych rotation in MI, the head of the psych program (it's all inpatient pscyh by the way) told me that of the 20 something docs working under him, not one of them makes less than 200,000 and some make well over 300,000. And they are not exactly busting their humps either, they are all huge golf addicts.

 

[Solideliquid]

I just did a psych rotation in MI, the head of the psych program (it's all inpatient pscyh by the way) told me that of the 20 something docs working under him, not one of them makes less than 200,000 and some make well over 300,000. And they are not exactly busting their humps either, they are all huge golf addicts.

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! What are ya trying to do here?! Keep that stuff to yourself!

 

[nortomaso]

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! What are ya trying to do here?! Keep that stuff to yourself!

Anyone have a realistic range for academic salaries?

 

[Doc Samson]

Anyone have a realistic range for academic salaries?

Starting salaries range from $80 - $140k, depending on the institutional arrogance of the place in question.

 

[Anasazi23]

Starting salaries range from $80 - $140k, depending on the institutional arrogance of the place in question.

 

[guarana]

Do psychs ever go work for (gasp!) pharma? It seems the field has a greater push for R&D of new meds....

Anyone have any clue about this, or how salaries would compare?

 

[whopper]

I would also want to point out that psychiatrists are in a position that other feilds of medicine often do not share. We have time.

My father is a surgeon and blew perhaps over 1,000,000 in idiotic investments. Several doctors put money into investments but don't have the time to manage them because they work crazy hours, even as attendings.

We are in a field where we have time. So in addition to being able to take it easier, we have the time to track things like investments.

So, all the talk that other fields make more money--well it doesn't exactly have to be seen that way, if you know what to do with your money.

 

[PublicHealth]

it's reasonable to look at $300k+ for high-end private practice.

I certainly hope so....especially with NYCOM debt!

 

[PublicHealth]

Starting salaries range from $80 - $140k, depending on the institutional arrogance of the place in question.

Isn't that the same for clinical psychologists who have no educational debt? Academia blows!

 

[nortomaso]

Starting salaries range from $80 - $140k, depending on the institutional arrogance of the place in question.

So the more arrogant the institution, the less they pay?

 

[PublicHealth]

So the more arrogant the institution, the less they pay?

No stratification based on arrogance, but this should give you an idea of salary ranges for academic psychiatrists:

http://ps.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/56/2/142

 

[Doc Samson]

So the more arrogant the institution, the less they pay?

That's my experience

 

[Anasazi23]

Just about every department head, professor, and other academic psychiatrist I know has a part-time private practice that nets them another 50-100k+ per year in addition to their academic base pay.

At least that's what I've seen.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

That's my experience

...because simply being associated with the glories of Grandiosely Imperious Medical College is CLEARLY more valuable than the extra $100-200 K you could be earning in the <air of disgust> private sector.

 

[positivepsych]

I assume that clinical psychologists who get professorships at Medical Schools get paid the same amount?

I find it ironic that some psychologists find academic positions more secure/lucrative than the private sector, and psychiatrists think the opposite. Those med checks must really pay the bills, huh?

 

[Doc Samson]

...because simply being associated with the glories of Grandiosely Imperious Medical College is CLEARLY more valuable than the extra $100-200 K you could be earning in the <air of disgust> private sector.

... or the opportunity to mentor and shape the next generation of bright young things in your field is actually kind of cool, and to some maybe worth the financial sacrifice.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

... or the opportunity to mentor and shape the next generation of bright young things in your field is actually kind of cool, and to some maybe worth the financial sacrifice.

I get the same privilege, a decent salary, and NO publish-or-perish mentality, as an attending in a community program.
There's more than one dream job out there!

 

[Doc Samson]

There's more than one dream job out there!

No arguments there. BTW most of east coast academia now has the clinician-educator track for rank advancement... no publishing needed.

 

[Poety]

Apparently the big BIG money in psychiatry is in doing a sleep fellowship - I'm thinking about it, will have to do electives to see what I think.

But the neurologist that told us about the fellowship and what not said, you eseentially make bank while you sleep - just for having the test being done, and interpreting the results woooo

 

[chameleonknight]

I'd like to ask about a couple of very specific states: New Mexico and Louisiana. Do you guys know what effect, if any, that those prescribing psychologists have had on the job market? Or a more general question: psych MDs seem to do well in big cities, but what about smaller cities (~500,000 pop.) and small towns (35,000-80,000 pop.)?

 

[Doc Samson]

I'd like to ask about a couple of very specific states: New Mexico and Louisiana. Do you guys know what effect, if any, that those prescribing psychologists have had on the job market?

...aware of the chaos that was about to ensue, Doc Samson made a quiet mental note never to read this thread again.

 

[PublicHealth]

I'd like to ask about a couple of very specific states: New Mexico and Louisiana. Do you guys know what effect, if any, that those prescribing psychologists have had on the job market? Or a more general question: psych MDs seem to do well in big cities, but what about smaller cities (~500,000 pop.) and small towns (35,000-80,000 pop.)?

You're in LA. What have you noticed? My understanding is that there are currently only 30 prescribing psychologists in the entire state. Even less in NM. There will always be a need for psychiatry. It's analogous to optometry and ophthalmology. Medical psychologists will refer more complex and severe cases to psychiatry.

Doc Samson, why avoid the discussion? Your colleagues are already resorting to fear mongering tactics to scare fellow psychiatrists about psychologist RxP: http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/41/16/36-b

 

[chameleonknight]

I've noticed that I'm still in school and it's hard to get a feel for the job market...

And I'm not trying to raise hell; I feel that it's a legitimate concern. If I find anything out, I'll be sure to come back and share.

 

[PublicHealth]

I've noticed that I'm still in school and it's hard to get a feel for the job market...

And I'm not trying to raise hell; I feel that it's a legitimate concern. If I find anything out, I'll be sure to come back and share.

I agree. Personally, I think that psychiatrists and psychologists should work collaboratively whenever possible, including psychopharmacology, as each discipline complements the other.

The fact that you find this issue to be legitimate concern is consistent with how most of psychiatry feels (exceptions include most folks on this board). You should have heard some of the psychiatrists lobbying against psychologist RxP in recent legislative sessions! At the same time, it's really not an issue to get too concerned about, as psychiatric NPs have not put psychiatrists out of business, and only a minority of psychologists will likely pursue RxP. Many, in fact, are against this added scope of practice.

I am currently in my third year of medical school, and I support psychologist RxP, as psychiatry is simply not putting out the numbers to meet the need for psychopharmacological treatment. Plus, I value the biopsychosocial approach to psychiatric care that, in my opinion, is sorely missing in modern, pharma-dominated psychiatry.

Feel free to post in the clinical psychology forum. There's a thread there on psychopharmacology/advanced practice psychology. Folks there would be happy to hear your thoughts about this issue. Though I do not think we're off-topic here.

 

[Anasazi23]

psych MDs seem to do well in big cities, but what about smaller cities (~500,000 pop.) and small towns (35,000-80,000 pop.)?

Some would argue the opposite. The smaller the town area, the more money psychiatrists can make. A good example is psychiatry in NYC, where, despite the physician saturation, psychiatrists make decent money. However, this is not nearly as much as if they moved to a rural area, where cost of living is cut by about 1/2, and salary increases twofold.

 

[PublicHealth]

Some would argue the opposite. The smaller the town area, the more money psychiatrists can make. A good example is psychiatry in NYC, where, despite the physician saturation, psychiatrists make decent money. However, this is not nearly as much as if they moved to a rural area, where cost of living is cut by about 1/2, and salary increases twofold.

See you Mississippi, sazi!

 

[Anasazi23]

See you Mississippi, sazi!

Believe me, I'm thinking about it.....


Live on a plantation, have plenty of room for the cars, motorcycles, the batting cage, the pool......sounds nice doesn't it?

 

[PublicHealth]

Believe me, I'm thinking about it.....


Live on a plantation, have plenty of room for the cars, motorcycles, the batting cage, the pool......sounds nice doesn't it?

Can't forget the boat! You can slalom between the gambling boats in the Gulf!

 

[Poety]

I agree. Personally, I think that psychiatrists and psychologists should work collaboratively whenever possible, including psychopharmacology, as each discipline complements the other.

The fact that you find this issue to be legitimate concern is consistent with how most of psychiatry feels (exceptions include most folks on this board). You should have heard some of the psychiatrists lobbying against psychologist RxP in recent legislative sessions! At the same time, it's really not an issue to get too concerned about, as psychiatric NPs have not put psychiatrists out of business, and only a minority of psychologists will likely pursue RxP. Many, in fact, are against this added scope of practice.

I am currently in my third year of medical school, and I support psychologist RxP, as psychiatry is simply not putting out the numbers to meet the need for psychopharmacological treatment. Plus, I value the biopsychosocial approach to psychiatric care that, in my opinion, is sorely missing in modern, pharma-dominated psychiatry.

Feel free to post in the clinical psychology forum. There's a thread there on psychopharmacology/advanced practice psychology. Folks there would be happy to hear your thoughts about this issue. Though I do not think we're off-topic here.

here psychs to the meds, ologists do the therapy. PharmaCISTS are the ones we go to for med ideas since they know the drugs inside and out.

 

[Anasazi23]

here psychs to the meds, ologists do the therapy. PharmaCISTS are the ones we go to for med ideas since they know the drugs inside and out.

Pharmacists for medication ideas?
That's sort of weird to me....

Nothing can replace your psychiatric clinical experience, and while pharmacists are wonderful resources for techincal questions, the clinical aspect is the domain in which you'll remain the expert. Trust yourself and your experience.

 

[Poety]

Pharmacists for medication ideas?
That's sort of weird to me....

Nothing can replace your psychiatric clinical experience, and while pharmacists are wonderful resources for techincal questions, the clinical aspect is the domain in which you'll remain the expert. Trust yourself and your experience.

we go to them all the time when we're stumped on a patient for b/p meds and need to know what to use instead of x,y,z which they're already on, or cost issues (which is HUGE HERE) etc etc - I think the pharmacists are great - its a pharmacy teaching place here so they're a great resource.

I hvaen't worked iwth the ologists yet, but I've been hanging with some community service psychiatrists (attendings) and they do all the therapy themselves, but htye more than anything do med management.

 

[Anasazi23]

I hvaen't worked iwth the ologists yet, but I've been hanging with some community service psychiatrists (attendings) and they do all the therapy themselves, but htye more than anything do med management.

But that's impossible...psychiatrists don't do anything but 5 minute med checks and often times never even see the patient...they just prescribe based on the question and answer survey - let alone therapy.