How much debt is OK?

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illegallysmooth

illegallysmooth

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Hello everyone!

So I've recently been accepted to CCOM and LECOM-Bradenton. I interviewed at NYCOM just a couple days ago so I'm also keeping that in the back of my mind. One problem with my decision is the huge difference in tuition between LECOM and CCOM/NYCOM.

I already have around 70k in debt from undergrad (Univ of Rochester) and two years of grad school (SUNY Buffalo). CCOM has their yearly budgets laid out at just over 70k per year (which will, of course, increase). So that's a grand total of over $350,000 and that number makes me want to cry.

For those who went to CCOM, NYCOM, or similarly priced schools and relied completely on loans, what is an average amount of debt at graduation? Can someone give me a general idea of what would be TOO MUCH, and leave me drowing after graduation?
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At this point I would go for the cheapest school. Your amount of 350k is VERY scary #. The true amount you will owe will be much greater and it is important to understand what causes this.

For example say you graduate with $350k. Your monthly repayment for a 10YR loan term at 6.8% would be $4,027.00/month (with $1,100 going to interest). Now you will be a resident for 4-6 years with a salary of $46k. That salary will produce a $2,976.00/month paycheck (after 22% taxes removed). So if you elect to pay down your loan during residency, the interest alone will be 36% of your monthly salary

After you finish residency and start repaying your loan the monthly payment will be $4,027.00 (if you were paying the interest that was accruing during residency. If you elect a 10YR repayment plan you will pay a total of $483,337.00 (w/ 133k being from interest).

Now, as a resident you have an option to deffer your loan payments and the interest will be accruing. Here is where going to a cheaper school comes into play.

School A = $350k at graduation time will produce $455,358.00 at the end of residency. That is $105k in interest alone. Why? Because the 350k balance is astronomical

School B = $250k (e.g. LECOM @ 48k/yr) at graduation will produce $325,255.00 at end of residency. That is $75k in interest alone.

So you see how the loan balance at graduation plays a big part. The compounding effect is much greater for large balances.

There is a discussion on SDN financial aid forum that talks about paying 300k+ for med school. I think that this amount is way too much, and is probably not worth the effort of putting yourself through medical training hell only to be left destitute until your 40s. Its probably better to go to a PA or RN training and be off far better than this amount of dept.



take-home pay calculator: http://www.payroll-taxes.com/calculators-link.htm
loan interst rate calculator: http://www.payroll-taxes.com/calculators-link.htm
accrued interest calculator: http://www.moneychimp.com/calculator/compound_interest_calculator.htm
 
I wouldn't let the debt be such a big factor. You have to go where you're gonna be happy and where you think you'll get the best education. You'll make enough money to pay off the debt, and there are plenty of programs available post graduation to sign up for that will pay off part of all of your debt. Some hospitals will even let you sign a contract saying you'll work for them for x number of years (usually 4-5) and they will pay you normally, give you all your benefits and they will pay down your loans for you while you work for them. They get the security that you will be their employee for that whole time and won't be going anywhere.

Another option is the armed services HPSP dealio. Its a good deal for sure if thats your thing.

And just to let you know, I'll have around 290-300k of debt before interest after I'm done, and I have no worries about it at all, and I'm interested in primary care specialties (EM and peds). I know I'll make the money, I know I'll be able to pay it back, people do it every year. As long as you don't go out and buy an enormous house, fancy car, etc, you'll be fine.
 
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I agree with the above poster. I have a more fanciful/carfree attitude about the whole debt thing. Money isn't everything. I chose medicine because I enjoy the science and I look forward to using my knowledge to help people. As long as I'm happy in my job and I am living a comfortable existence, I will be just fine. The money will be made eventually, it will be paid back eventually, and I refuse to let it get in the way.
 
Dude,

go to the place with the LEAST amount of debt. Do not, I repeat, do NOT listen to those above who say not to worry about it.

Going to those schools will make it more difficult to land a competitive specialty as compared to a high-priced allo school.

What happens if you land an FP/IM/Peds residency with 350k principle?

Even with 250k principle, you're looking at some hefty, hefty loans.

CCOM/NYCOM are better than LECOM, but not so much that it will make a huge difference in your residency outcome. If it was NYCOM vs RVU, I would say either go to NYCOM or reapply next year.

Seriously, debt is a huge, huge issue. Don't overlook it.
 
The truth of the matter is that what medical students think and what actually goes on outside of medical school and in real life is completely different. Money drives almost everything and having huge dept that compromises what you can do is a big deal.

For example, lets take the person that will be 300k in dept after med school. After finishing Family Med residency this will grow to $365.

So when you are a new Family doc your monthly loan repayment will be $4,250.00/month for a 10 year repayment plan

The starting salary you will get will most likely be $130,000.00. The monthly take home pay for that is $7,543.00 (post taxes)..

Subtract your monthly loan payment and you got $3,293.00/month left over. Now realize that this is basically equal to a 50,000/yr salary.

So you are making what some 21 year old engineer/accountant makes straight out of school with almost no dept. Except that bad part is you are 30 years old and won't see anything until 40yo.
 
Igor4sugry said:
The truth of the matter is that what medical students think and what actually goes on outside of medical school and in real life is completely different. Money drives almost everything and having huge dept that compromises what you can do is a big deal.

For example, lets take the person that will be 300k in dept after med school. After finishing Family Med residency this will grow to $365.

So when you are a new Family doc your monthly loan repayment will be $4,250.00/month for a 10 year repayment plan

The starting salary you will get will most likely be $130,000.00. The monthly take home pay for that is $7,543.00 (post taxes)..

Subtract your monthly loan payment and you got $3,293.00/month left over. Now realize that this is basically equal to a 50,000/yr salary.

So you are making what some 21 year old engineer/accountant makes straight out of school with almost no dept. Except that bad part is you are 30 years old and won't see anything until 40yo.
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The median salary of primary care physician is $157,250 if you go by the department of labor. This bumps up the net earnings to around 8,000 per month. While you figure also doesn't take into account the different intrest rates and if you can get them all consolidated down I do agree that around 4,000 a month in payments on a 10 year plan. Also, you forgot to put into you figure the fact that all residents are required to start paying back their student loans through income based repayment. I don't know how much an impact 400 bucks a month will have but it might keep the interest from swelling as much as you predicted. Anyways, using your data and the updated numbers, this would leave an individual with, roughly, $3,750.00 net earnings at the end of each month for the next ten years. That's not to shabby. You also have to remember this is the net earnings of one individual. Let's say you are in my situation and your wife is a teacher. This brings in another $2,500.00 net earnings per month. Subract her student loans and we still sit over $5,000.00 per month post taxes. I don't about you guys but that isn't too shabby to live on for ten years.

The sad truth of the matter is this is how a lot of people are coming out of medical school; myself included. I know of physicians that are in their 50's and still making 2,000 (+) a month payments on their student loans (I don't want this to be me). I would rather live on $3,750 a month (which is more than you will make as a resident BTW) and have my loans paid off so that I can actually live like a physician when I am 40 than to fork over a fourth of my income monthly for the next 30 years. In the end, go where you feel the most comfortable and don't fall into the hole of living like a physician when you finally graduate. Pay off your student loans as quickly as possible.


http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes291062.htm
 
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first, thanks everyone for your input! very helpful!

Using the provided online calculators with a 3-year residency (I looked at both family medicine and emergency medicine programs in my area, both were 3 years), my total debt should I attend CCOM would be about $461,692 and my total debt should I attend LECOM would be about $393,474. This is scarrrry :eek:

Now, the calculators I found wouldn't let me put in X amount of repayment for Y amount of years, and then A amount of repayment for B amount of years. Does anyone know of a calculator that will do this??

I've always planned, since undergrad, to live on a very meager salary for my first few years out of training and take a massive chunk out of the debt. I'm very good at living on a small budget. With the cost of living in Buffalo, I can live perfectly fine on around $13,000/year right now. Obviously I'm not planning to go THAT extreme as a new doc, but I can honestly live on 25-40k after grad and pay AT LEAST 180k of the debt in two years following residency, even if I go into family med. So really, it's not about ability to survive. It's about the ridiculous notion of a 68k difference in debt between CCOM and LECOM after a 3 year residency compounding itself into over a hundred thousand dollars over a repayment period.

I'm not going to make a decision until I meet with HPSP, but if I don't end up choosing to go that route, I think the smarter decision here is pretty clear.

Thanks again, everyone. I hope this discussion helps out some other readers as well.
 
GO TO THE CHEAPEST SCHOOL.

Do not listen to pre-med or medical students with a casual approach to more than a quarter-million in debt. IT IS NOT WORTH IT. Medicine is not a wise choice to make when the student loan debt climbs above $250K.

If you end up doing primary care, you will regret your debt. I do. As a move through residency and into the transition to becoming an attending, my debt occupies more and more of my thoughts.
 
I concur. Cheap is better. Your education is largely on your own shoulders, your board scores on your own shoulders. Go cheap.
 
With the US economy in the ****ter and the FED printing money like it's monopoly money, we'll soon see hyperinflation, at which point, your loans will be super easy to pay off. (http://inflation.us) go read that website for more information about what is going to happen very soon.

But, I concur with the last few posters. Cheapest school is the best way to go. The "name" of a school is only something that pre-med folk get all excited for and/or people who have no idea what/where schools are.

The school doesn't get you board scores, grades, or residency spots; only you do.
 
Here is some input, but you won't find it very helpful (probably).

Do NOT go to either school.

400k in debt.

Seriously dude?

That's assuming a 3 year residency...That's assuming the budgets dont change..that's assuming you don't have any unexpected road bumps, academic or otherwise.

You need to improve your scores until you can get into a much cheaper (and better) state school.

Otherwise, you don't need to be pursuing medicine.

Harsh? Yep. Input? Yep. Good advice? You betcha.

You have no idea how bad those loans will be. With the coming residency crunch, to boot, it sends shivers up my spine thinking about your poor situation should you go to one of those two schools.

Take it or leave it, I'm sure I'll get flamed by the lameo pre-meds/med students. Come back to this thread in 5-7 years, and see which one of us turned out to be right.

Hint, hint: it will be me.

illegallysmooth said:
first, thanks everyone for your input! very helpful!

Using the provided online calculators with a 3-year residency (I looked at both family medicine and emergency medicine programs in my area, both were 3 years), my total debt should I attend CCOM would be about $461,692 and my total debt should I attend LECOM would be about $393,474. This is scarrrry :eek:

Now, the calculators I found wouldn't let me put in X amount of repayment for Y amount of years, and then A amount of repayment for B amount of years. Does anyone know of a calculator that will do this??

I've always planned, since undergrad, to live on a very meager salary for my first few years out of training and take a massive chunk out of the debt. I'm very good at living on a small budget. With the cost of living in Buffalo, I can live perfectly fine on around $13,000/year right now. Obviously I'm not planning to go THAT extreme as a new doc, but I can honestly live on 25-40k after grad and pay AT LEAST 180k of the debt in two years following residency, even if I go into family med. So really, it's not about ability to survive. It's about the ridiculous notion of a 68k difference in debt between CCOM and LECOM after a 3 year residency compounding itself into over a hundred thousand dollars over a repayment period.

I'm not going to make a decision until I meet with HPSP, but if I don't end up choosing to go that route, I think the smarter decision here is pretty clear.

Thanks again, everyone. I hope this discussion helps out some other readers as well.
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Wrong on inflation, wrong on school name.

393 k for Harvard/Stanford/Yale med may be worth it.

393 k for those D.O. schools you listed is not.

Name matters in the residency process. You spend 393k at Harvard/Stanford/Yale, you're very likely to get a derm spot, at least somewhere.

393 k for your D.O. schools (or most MD schools, for that matter) is not worth it.

ChiDO said:
With the US economy in the ****ter and the FED printing money like it's monopoly money, we'll soon see hyperinflation, at which point, your loans will be super easy to pay off. (http://inflation.us) go read that website for more information about what is going to happen very soon.

But, I concur with the last few posters. Cheapest school is the best way to go. The "name" of a school is only something that pre-med folk get all excited for and/or people who have no idea what/where schools are.

The school doesn't get you board scores, grades, or residency spots; only you do.
Click to expand...
 
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LECOM-B is $30k/year for tuition, which is one of the cheapest medical schools in the country. The only way the OP will go to a cheaper medical school would be if he/she lives in Texas and goes to one of those schools.

Coastie, inflation is coming, whether you want to believe it or not. Printing $2 trillion dollars by the FED will cause inflation and to say it won't is just being naive. Interest rates are being held at 0%, but in the near future, the FED is going to have to jack the rates us because this economy is unsustainable and then will come inflation.

Also, to say that if you go to a "name" school you'll get a derm spot someplace. Give me a break...if you don't have the board scores, it doesn't matter if you go to Harvard, you're not getting that derm spot. And harvard will not automatically get you that board score.
 
it's amazing how most of the pre-med/medical student members post to not care about the amount of debt. they will definitely regret their choices in the future.

i agree with all the residents/attendings that advise to go the cheaper route. $300K in loans is a HUGE amount. when you have to start paying loans + buying a house/car + supporting your family, it becomes very stressful. I only owe $75,000 and am currently working as an attending, but I definitely stress out about it each day. i can't wait to pay it off and am VERY grateful that i went to my very CHEAP state school.
 
Aside from ChiDO's comments, I'd like to add a little more.

For 6 years, people have been telling me I would not be able to do what I'm doing. I've done it all. When I choose to do something, I do it. In the apartment where I live in Buffalo, I can live on 13-14k per year (cost of living here is super low). If I were to move in with my boyfriend, that number would be cut in half. With that said, take a look at the numbers I've been running today:

If I attend LECOM and enter a 3-year primary care residency, I will owe $393,474. This is worst-case, as I will likely be able to pay off some of the interest during residency.

In the first year after residency, I will live on 25k.
The second year, I will live on 40k.
This much has been my plan for a long time.

If I live on 55k for year 3, 70k for year 4 and 85k/year for the following years, I will pay off the debt by June 2021 (graduating med school in 2014), and have paid 72,849 of interest in the years following residency. This is all assuming a salary of 130k.

Furthermore, if I were to receive 50k for loan payback through NHSC, as I would want to work in one of their sites nearby, I would be done paying off loans in November of 2019 and with only 34,550 of interest.

Additionally, keep in mind this is with primary care. Aside from primary care, I am interested in emergency medicine, which would allow me to pay off my loans more quickly and therefore accrue less interest.

There's always a way, people.
 
Oh, and thanks everyone for the input. I do really appreciate it. You've helped put this all in perspective.
 
allergisttobe: "it's amazing how most of the pre-med/medical student members post to not care about the amount of debt. they will definitely regret their choices in the future."


I think that the reason we post to not care about our accumulating debt is because we are trying to convince ourselves that it will be all right. We know how scary this massive debt is, but at this point, there isn't much we can do about it. We want to use our gifts to help people. We want to heal people. We know this is our calling and we're going to do it. Therefore, why stress ourselves out by worrying about enormous amounts of debt? Med school will be tough enough as it is, and we don't want to have one more negative thought in our minds. Is it the most practical way to think about our future? Probably not. But for most of us, for whom there is no turning back, is there any other way to achieve our goals? No. Therefore, we brush it off like it will be okay, and God willing, it will be better than okay. I, like nearly all of us on here, am not becoming a doctor to live in a mansion and drive foreign sports cars. I'm doing it to help people, and if it means that I have to live with extreme frugality for 5-10 years, so be it. I'll just appreciate everything I have that much more, and won't take for granted the gifts I have been given.
 
I was accepted to an in-state school, which my debt after 4 years would be around 160,000. I am going to attend an out of state school so my debt after 4 years will be around 350,000. This is what I'm planning on doing: I'm planning on paying on the interest during my residency. Right now I want to go into Ob/Gyn so the first year our of residency I should be making around 200,000. So I'm just planning on living on a resident's income for one more year, then Voila, you can pay back 150,000 of it!
 
DrK5683 said:
I was accepted to an in-state school, which my debt after 4 years would be around 160,000. I am going to attend an out of state school so my debt after 4 years will be around 350,000. This is what I'm planning on doing: I'm planning on paying on the interest during my residency. Right now I want to go into Ob/Gyn so the first year our of residency I should be making around 200,000. So I'm just planning on living on a resident's income for one more year, then Voila, you can pay back 150,000 of it!
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From that hypothetical $200k that you may or may not be earning in the future, you're forgetting to subtract potentially $100k+ for malpractice insurance (+/- some depending on location, but malpractice for Ob/Gyn does not come cheap...), taxes, food, gas, bills and rent. Unless there's some pressing reason as to why you have to go to this OOS school, it is absolutely nuts for you to pay twice as much for tuition to attend this school.

I am but a naive pre-med, but there seems to be something seriously flawed in your logic...
 
....
 
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Black Adder said:
From that hypothetical $200k that you may or may not be earning in the future, you're forgetting to subtract potentially $100k+ for malpractice insurance (+/- some depending on location, but malpractice for Ob/Gyn does not come cheap...), taxes, food, gas, bills and rent. Unless there's some pressing reason as to why you have to go to this OOS school, it is absolutely nuts for you to pay twice as much for tuition to attend this school.

I am but a naive pre-med, but there seems to be something seriously flawed in your logic...
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I agree 100%
 
DrK5683 said:
I was accepted to an in-state school, which my debt after 4 years would be around 160,000. I am going to attend an out of state school so my debt after 4 years will be around 350,000. This is what I'm planning on doing: I'm planning on paying on the interest during my residency. Right now I want to go into Ob/Gyn so the first year our of residency I should be making around 200,000. So I'm just planning on living on a resident's income for one more year, then Voila, you can pay back 150,000 of it!
Click to expand...

:laugh: Taxes:idea:.


OP: Look at the Medicine worth $300k of debt thread to see more attendings and residents opinions on this.

My 2 cents: 200k is the absolute max I would be willing to take out.
 
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Black Adder said:
From that hypothetical $200k that you may or may not be earning in the future, you're forgetting to subtract potentially $100k+ for malpractice insurance (+/- some depending on location, but malpractice for Ob/Gyn does not come cheap...), taxes, food, gas, bills and rent. Unless there's some pressing reason as to why you have to go to this OOS school, it is absolutely nuts for you to pay twice as much for tuition to attend this school.

I am but a naive pre-med, but there seems to be something seriously flawed in your logic...
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Its fairly common I thought for Ob/Gyn's to work for a hospital thus their malpractice insurance was covered pre-salary (Correct me by all rights if I'm wrong). Not to say that going to the OOS school would be justified then, but just a bit more manageable.
 
Black Adder said:
From that hypothetical $200k that you may or may not be earning in the future, you're forgetting to subtract potentially $100k+ for malpractice insurance
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A doc told me that malpractice is generally worked into the offer you are given... so in fact, the hypothetical 200k has already suffered the "malpractice" cut. But remember after taxes that 200k will be 109,712.8 assuming youre married and live in a state with no state income tax like FL.
 
DrYoda said:
This is correct. The salaries you see in surveys are post-malpractice.
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Yeah... I wasn't sure about the specifics that went into reimbursements and malpractice insurance. If those salaries are post-malpractice then Ob/Gyn doesn't seem nearly as much of a raw deal to me anymore. I was begining to wonder who in their right mind would go into Ob/Gyn if they lost nearly half their take home pay to insurance... You would seriously have to absolutely love what you do to be willing to take such a huge hit..
 
DrK5683 said:
I was accepted to an in-state school, which my debt after 4 years would be around 160,000. I am going to attend an out of state school so my debt after 4 years will be around 350,000. This is what I'm planning on doing: I'm planning on paying on the interest during my residency. Right now I want to go into Ob/Gyn so the first year our of residency I should be making around 200,000. So I'm just planning on living on a resident's income for one more year, then Voila, you can pay back 150,000 of it!
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If he had presented it in a better way this is actually a very good idea. Assuming you work in a field where your malpractice is actually paid for by the hospital and your gross pay is 200K like above then you could stand to end up with about 109K net (post taxes). Divided up over 12 months this would earn you about 9K net per month. Assuming you have 350K in loans, the majority of which are federal (which should be the case), you will stand with around 4K per month in loan payments on a 10 year plan. This leaves you with 5K post taxes and post loan payment to live on. During residency you will be expected to live on about half this (assuming you take in about 50K a year gross...which you may very well make less). So, you can either choose to live on the 5K a month (which, for me, coming from a family where 50K a year was "rich people money" is amazing) or you can "live like a resident" and choose to "donate" the other 2K or so back to your loans thus reducing the amount of time you have to "live like a resident." So, you get out of residency and live below your means for the next 7-10 years and live great for the rest until retirement.

This is all theory of course and things change. If you get married and the wife doesn't work but pops out a few kids...well there goes that 2k you were using for "donated" loan payments. If you get married and your wife nets an extra 2K a month, well yeehaw for you you get to go to sizzler! Also, this is based on a 10 year payment plan, if you go out to 20 years or 30 years the payment drops by about a grand per month. Of course, this also means you will be making payments until you are 70 (which some doctors do, don't laugh, I've met the poor bastards) but it is still an option if you just have to buy that million dollar home to show up all your friends! Finally, it all REALLY comes down to personal choice. How can YOU personally choose to live. Do you neeeeeed the new car, hot wife with new teetas and million dollar home or can you rent a house, drive a toyota and have fun with what nature gave her? The choice is yours.

Its all about having a plan. I don't think anyone is looking at this mounting debt and going "hey look at all those zeros, this is suuuuure fun." My own personal plan is to pay of my debt as quickly as possible. For me this means planning out a budget for the next decade, talking to people who know far more about money than I do, making realistic plans for the future, making realistic predictions of future earnings and debt for the future and not ****ting myself. This, of course, is just me, the rest of ya can all go to hell :D. Or something like that.
 
In my opinion go cheap but also consider if the the trade off money will translate to worse education.
I come from poor family, so I know how hard it is financially.
I have been accepted to few DO schools. I choose LECOM-B because of board scores, program, clinical preparation, pretty good residency match but also because of cheaper tution. On top of cheap tuition, I am planning to live with parents for at least 1-2 years, savings of ~18k. Ether way I am not planning to take max loan. With my estimates I am planning to take 160-180k, with 3-4 year higher loan due to rotations, match etc. I can save even more if I will not buy things like starbucks, buy books from amazon, use coupons for grocery (20%-80% of savings on grocery if you smart with it). I will live like a student in med school so when I graduate I can live like doc earlier.

Even if you go to school with higher tution there are ways to save up lots of $$$ so you will not need to take max loan. There are definetly ways to live cheap but with good quality. Be smart with it, you never know how healthcare will change in next couple years.
 
Oh yeah, forgot about taxes! 200,000 almost drops by half due to taxes? I checked it out http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/2009-federal-income-tax-brackets-projected.html

It looks like for that income, its 28%, which would leave 144,000. Which is an awful large 56,000 chunk. I can think of much better things to do with 56K. WTF is up with up to 35% taxes anyways? Why isn't it fair to have everyone at the same percent? If you make more you're still paying more. Income tax shouldn't be above 10% anyway. If I make 1 million a year I pay 350K in taxes!?! Robbery.

And I thought those salaries were figured after malpractice, overhead, and taxes.
 
If your worried about debt, why not try for the military scholarship?
 
wanna_be_do said:
Interesting article from the Wall Street Journal on the issue of student debt.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...030.html?mod=WSJ_hps_sections_personalfinance
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Okay, I read the article and my question is why didn't she get GradPlus loans instead of multiple private loans? Did they not exist back then (she started in 1999)?

I think this is an obvious warning tale about private loans, and I am all for financial responsibility, but the sad fact is that to go to med school we are going to be in a great deal of debt. I think people should plan as best they can, take as little as possible, and read the fine print. It cost her 52K for not reading the print.
 
I can see how she's saddled with an incredible amount of debt, but I'm having a much harder time seeing how she, as a single physician in Ohio, is not able to make her monthly loan repayments.
 
wanna_be_do said:
Interesting article from the Wall Street Journal on the issue of student debt.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...030.html?mod=WSJ_hps_sections_personalfinance
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There is something else going on here in this story that is not being told. She has a $550.00 a month payment for Wells Fargo, $990.00 a month payment for her federal loans and, its not directly stated only assumed, a $1000.00 a month payment for Sallie Mae = $2540.00 a month in loan payments. If she was making between 7-8K a month, post taxes (which we already stated on several posts as being the median for a FP physician), I don't really know how she struggled to make this payment.

That would leave her between $4,460 and $5,460 post taxes/post loan payments a month to live on. For a comparison: assuming the median personal income for all individuals above the age of 25 was $32,140 in 2005 would mean that said individual, working in Ohio, would only net $1933.00 a month . This means that she was able to net (post taxes and post loan payments) MORE THAN TWICE the median personal income of those around her. Somewhere is mentioned "credit card debt" and I can only assume this individual lived FAR beyond their means. This isn't a student loan horror story, this is a "careful what you spend" story.


http://pubdb3.census.gov/macro/032006/perinc/new05_001.htm
 
Current LECOM-B student here:

I'd pick LECOM-B. It's a great school. It's cheap. Cost of living is low here. You barely have to drive anywhere.

Obviously, you should be concerned about your debt and try to minimize it, but don't let it stop you from fulfilling your dream. If you're worried about the payments, then do the income-based repayment plan, which is capped at a maximum.

Also, any interest you're paying on student loans is deductible, up to a certain amount, so take that into consideration as well.

It's very doable. Will you have a private jet if you go into primary care? No. Will you be able to have a decent house (not a mansion), a Honda, wife and kids. Sure.
 
digitlnoize said:
Current LECOM-B student here:

I'd pick LECOM-B. It's a great school. It's cheap. Cost of living is low here. You barely have to drive anywhere.

Obviously, you should be concerned about your debt and try to minimize it, but don't let it stop you from fulfilling your dream. If you're worried about the payments, then do the income-based repayment plan, which is capped at a maximum.

Also, any interest you're paying on student loans is deductible, up to a certain amount, so take that into consideration as well.

It's very doable. Will you have a private jet if you go into primary care? No. Will you be able to have a decent house (not a mansion), a Honda, wife and kids. Sure.
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Thank you for your input. I've read many of your posts on LECOM-B, and you're very helpful. I'm heavily leaning that way - about 98% sure. I just received an acceptance from NYCOM, but their tuition is somewhere around CCOM's, and I've heard some negative things recently that are keeping me from another big deliberation.
 
ElizabethinMN said:
A couple of things.
My dad is on the residency search committee for his division where he works (a well-known medical center). He said that they look at both the "tier" of medical school you went to (first tier, second, third--and his institution ranks them themselves, I don't think this is public info), grades, and board scores. While people here like to say that a US med school is a US med school, it's not. Now, my dad's residency program is one of the top in the country, but still everyone should know how to get a shot at it--most of their residents went to tier 1 med schools. When I was telling him about the post-bacs I am applying for we looked at the linkages available to me and his discouraged me from setting myself to get into anything less than a tier 1 school. I'm still not sure if I'll do a post-bac or not, I am thinking more and more about the Harvard Extension School and then my state university if I can get in. Sigh. But yeah go to the best school you can get into, it will pay off later.
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I'm non-trad and my undergrad gpa is 3.2 Thanks, but I'm not getting into a top tier med school. Good luck at Harvard...
 
ElizabethinMN said:
A couple of things.
My dad is on the residency search committee for his division where he works (a well-known medical center). He said that they look at both the "tier" of medical school you went to (first tier, second, third--and his institution ranks them themselves, I don't think this is public info), grades, and board scores. While people here like to say that a US med school is a US med school, it's not. Now, my dad's residency program is one of the top in the country, but still everyone should know how to get a shot at it--most of their residents went to tier 1 med schools. When I was telling him about the post-bacs I am applying for we looked at the linkages available to me and his discouraged me from setting myself to get into anything less than a tier 1 school. I'm still not sure if I'll do a post-bac or not, I am thinking more and more about the Harvard Extension School and then my state university if I can get in. Sigh. But yeah go to the best school you can get into, it will pay off later.
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Who says your dad's residency is one ot the "top in the country?" Who says that Harvard is better than School X? The best school and residency is the one that is best FOR YOU.

Harvard is NOT the place for me. I don't like Boston (or big cities in general, I have a family and don't like it when my 8 year old gets shot), and I would not have done well at the school, either. I hate research. The tuition is insane.

You couldn't pay me enough to pick Harvard over LECOM-B. No way, no how. Same goes for residency. While I want to do my residency at a "decent" place, it doesn't have to be at MGH or Hopkins. Again, I hate research and academic medicine in general. Give me a solid community program ANY TIME. I have zero desire to be an academic attending (although I'd be open to teaching a class or having students on rotation with me, if they wanted). I have zero desire to do research or work on grants (a special hell).

Basically, I'm saying that before you start spouting off about your nepotism and "Tier 1 Schools" you should stop and think, and realize that people come in all flavors and what's "Tier 1" for US News may not be Tier 1 for the rest of us. When I was applying to school, this was my rank list (I'm from Virginia)

1. UVA. I'm from Charlottesville, and UVA is a great school and it would have been nice to be near family. It's a small town. Tuition here would have been more expensive than any other school on the list (~$35k, I think, in state, ugh...thanks virginia...). Unfortunately, I'm a non-trad (31yo now) and thanks to some classes I took when I was 18 and dropped, but didn't withdraw from (dumb, I know, but I didn't know I wanted to do medicine, or anything else then...I wanted to play guitar...) I have zero chance of making into a school as competitive as this any time soon. I did seriously consider spending an extra 2 or 3 years getting my scores up to where they needed to be, but decided against it for various reasons. I'm already old, and needed to get started on med school if I wanted to finish before I die. Also, I have so many undergrad credits that my AMCAS GPA was NOT changing at the end. Each A brought it up by 0.004 points. At that rate (which declines further with each credit you take) my 3.35 overall GPA (3.8 science, I'm not a *****, thank you) was NOT coming up.

2. LECOM-B. Cheapest tuition. Which is ironic given that I don't live in Florida. The PBL program is amazing, especially for someone with a family to worry about. I am able to structure my time mostly as I see fit. Great location, great weather, great schools for my daughter, very safe neighborhood, little slice of suburban heaven, no crime to speak of (our Pumpkin got stolen once on Halloween, if that counts...lol). No research requirement. Community rotations, which I love due to: more one-on-one time with the attendings, more responsibility (no residents, 1st assist on surgery, etc), "real world" medicine, not acedemia).

3. EVMS. Great program, I think. Terrible Location. Norfolk is a crap-hole. Not a good place for a family. Traffic is not only bad, but dangerous. I like not risking my life to drive around town, thanks.

4. VCU. My undergrad. Not a fan. I hate the location (although Richmond is better than Norfolk), the parking, the traffic, the quality of the residents here seems questionable at times. I worked at another hospital in Richmond, and we heard too many horror stories about the quality of care at VCU to make me want to be a part of that system. Terrible ER wait times. We know someone whose husband died of a stroke after waiting in the ER for 16 hours to be seen, AND being vocal about the severity of his condition. Sent a 3 day old blue baby over there after being tubed and stabilized at my hospital. 2 days later, it was decided at VCU that the resident needed practice on pediatric untubations, so the baby was extubated. Due to swelling, etc they could not re-intubate him and he coded. Brought him back 6 times, but lord knows what kind of brain damage. Again, I do NOT want to be part of this system. No thanks. To me, LECOM-B is far better.

5. VCOM. Meh. Blacksburg is almost too small. Actually this was borderline with VCU. If it wasn't for the high tuition, it would have won.

I am very confident that I made the right decision for me and my family. So while you and your daddy figure out your life, please let the rest of us figure out ours without telling us that we need to go to a "Tier 1 School" to get a "Tier 1 Residency". I'm at MY Tier 1 school, Thank you very much.

I would also like to add that any residency that excludes good, well-qualified candidates based on WHERE they went to school, is not a "Top Residency" in my mind. In fact, that pretty much puts them on my black-list. They are passing up some stellar candidates to take some with a certain name on a diploma. To me, that's as stupid as extubating that baby for training purposes.
 
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Because pedantry is my own special burden (and I'm sure there is a special circle of Hell reserved just for me and my affliction) I had to say that it isn't un-tubation. It is extubation. That doesn't detract from your experiences at all, but it was buggin' the heck out of me.
 
Physio Doc 2 Be said:
Because pedantry is my own special burden (and I'm sure there is a special circle of Hell reserved just for me and my affliction) I had to say that it isn't un-tubation. It is extubation. That doesn't detract from your experiences at all, but it was buggin' the heck out of me.
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lol...thanks. Fixed. Sorry, I was really out of it this morning. Big exam coming up!
 
beckhunter116 said:
Okay, I read the article and my question is why didn't she get GradPlus loans instead of multiple private loans? Did they not exist back then (she started in 1999)?

I think this is an obvious warning tale about private loans, and I am all for financial responsibility, but the sad fact is that to go to med school we are going to be in a great deal of debt. I think people should plan as best they can, take as little as possible, and read the fine print. It cost her 52K for not reading the print.
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She went to a Caribbean school...FMG's have an impossible time getting Federal loans and are stuck with private loans at 13%...
 
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