How much do US interns earn?

[Gunny]

Just wondering how much you guys earn in your first year out of medical school? I know we always have this notion of the US being ridiculously well-paid...

Does it vary from state to state? As interns (or Pre-Registration-House-Officers, PRHO's) here in the UK we average at about £36,000 per year which (I think) works out at about $63,000 for the year.

Do you guys compare? Also, (I'm interested) how much debt does the average med-head graduate with? Does it take you years and years to pay off?

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[erin682]

Not sure of the exact average but its somewhere between $35,000-40,000. So no we don't really compare. I guess the being relatively well-paid doesn't start until after residency.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Just wondering how much you guys earn in your first year out of medical school? I know we always have this notion of the US being ridiculously well-paid...

Does it vary from state to state? As interns (or Pre-Registration-House-Officers, PRHO's) here in the UK we average at about £36,000 per year which (I think) works out at about $63,000 for the year.

Do you guys compare? Also, (I'm interested) how much debt does the average med-head graduate with? Does it take you years and years to pay off?

Interns and Residents range from $30,000-50,000 depending on the location and level of training. However, debt does not have to be repaid during this training period. As a result, debt doesn't seem to be much of a problem, since the amount will not enter repayment until you are making 6 figures or more. You have the option of paying back loans in 10 or 30 years, so once again, no big deal.

 

[f_w]

No, interns are not ridiculously well paid. They make less than the nurses working side by side with them on the floors (also, interns and residents get a fixed annual salary, there is no extra pay for calls and overtime).

Most programs will pay you in the 40s these days. It varies a bit by local market, interns in NYC for example make up to 55k while in neighbouring connecticut the salary might be 38k.
Compared with the PRHO and SHO salaries in the UK, this is numerically a bit less. I don't know how it compares in terms of buying power after taxation and basic living expenses come into play. Even if it is lower at this point, we make it up by the overall shorter training and the comfortable income level once we reach attending (consultant) positions.

As for debt:

https://services.aamc.org/Publicati...f&prd_id=121&prv_id=137&pdf_id=35


On average, american medical students graduate with an educational debt. of $120.000. For students attending public medical schools this is about $100.000, at private medical schools the number is about $135.000.

This debt usually sits there during residency and the interest accrues on top of the principal. Depending on the specialty a resident goes into, it typically takes 10 to 20 years to pay it back (most pay out of their practice income, some physicians practicing in rural areas will get loan-repayment aid from the state or federal goverment as an incentive).

The large expense to attend medical school leads to a strong selection of who becomes a physician, and who doesn't. I quote from the report mentioned above:

For the past two decades, over 60
percent of medical students are from
families with incomes in the top
quintile of all American families, while
only 20 percent of medical students
are from families with incomes in the
lowest three quintiles (Figure 5).

 

[.edu-MD]

Interns and Residents range from $30,000-50,000 depending on the location and level of training. However, debt does not have to be repaid during this training period. As a result, debt doesn't seem to be much of a problem, since the amount will not enter repayment until you are making 6 figures or more. You have the option of paying back loans in 10 or 30 years, so once again, no big deal.

For recent loans, you can only defer for 3 years (economic hardship). So if you have a 3+ year residency then you'll have to start paying back while you're still only earning ~40k. And this is also only if you meet the hardship requirements. If you end up taking a residency in a city with high living costs (and thus a higher residency salary, say ~45k) and your loan amount is not that high, then you may not even qualify for the deferment. In other words, it's not guaranteed. Also, I think the 30 year option (on refinance) is only available if your debt exceeds a certain amount.

 

[OSUdoc08]

For recent loans, you can only defer for 3 years (economic hardship). So if you have a 3+ year residency then you'll have to start paying back while you're still only earning ~40k. And this is also only if you meet the hardship requirements. If you end up taking a residency in a city with high living costs (and thus a higher residency salary, say ~45k) and your loan amount is not that high, then you may not even qualify for the deferment. In other words, it's not guaranteed. Also, I think the 30 year option (on refinance) is only available if your debt exceeds a certain amount.

Good thing I'm doing an EM residency then.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Im an MS4 and MOST of the salaries are in the 38K to 55K(in NYC) range with most of them being between 40-42K. The whole loan thing is def an issue. The good news is once we are done and are making $$$ we can afford McDonalds anytime we want it.

 

[heyjack70]

I hear income tax in the UK takes a greater percentage of your earnings than US income tax. This may be a consideration.

 

[la gringa]

amk, you've got a few things mixed up... i'm an intern, have almost $200k in debt. after the deferment period (which is income based, but based on the 10 yr payoff monthly payment) you can still go into forebearance. you can also forebear if you are in residency but don't owe enough. main difference between deferment and forebearance is whether you pay interest on the subsidized loans.

don't worry kids, you don't HAVE to pay federal loans during residency. private loans can be a different story and vary by the loan...

 

[Blade28]

Not enough to pay off loans.

 

[debvz]

If I recall correctly, in the UK, there's a 60 or so hr work week restriction, so your $60,000 is for 60 hrs a week, while our $40,000 is for 80 hrs a week...

 

[Gumshoe]

But later on UK physicians will comparatively make peanuts.

And f_w, the large expense doesn't have anything to do with families that are rich. Poorer people shouldn't be discouraged due to expenses. If anything, they get more during the whole process because of less loans coming out (due to grants and better loans in the first place). The correlation that you speak of has everything to do with level of education. I don't buy the argument that "minorities" (whatever that means to you - social, political, financial) are swayed because of expense. Anyone with an education knows that investment (Medicine) is what pays. If not, you don't deserve to be in medicine, because you've already selected yourself out due to a foolish lack of understanding.

(I'll owe 200K+ coming out and I'm from middle class family - I also got NO help from the gov't or my school).

 

[Cram]

Just wondering how much you guys earn in your first year out of medical school? I know we always have this notion of the US being ridiculously well-paid...

Does it vary from state to state? As interns (or Pre-Registration-House-Officers, PRHO's) here in the UK we average at about £36,000 per year which (I think) works out at about $63,000 for the year.

Do you guys compare? Also, (I'm interested) how much debt does the average med-head graduate with? Does it take you years and years to pay off?

Don't mean to change subjects, but could you inform us on Uk debt & salaries?

I recall some unrest due to debts reaching £10K, and worries that it could never be repaid. Is this true? Here, after training is complete, salaries vary a lot between specialties (from $125-$500K average salaries, with a few making $1,000,000+). Is UK variance only senority based or also by specialty? What is the range?


-curious American

 

[Doctor Bagel]

For recent loans, you can only defer for 3 years (economic hardship). So if you have a 3+ year residency then you'll have to start paying back while you're still only earning ~40k. And this is also only if you meet the hardship requirements. If you end up taking a residency in a city with high living costs (and thus a higher residency salary, say ~45k) and your loan amount is not that high, then you may not even qualify for the deferment. In other words, it's not guaranteed. Also, I think the 30 year option (on refinance) is only available if your debt exceeds a certain amount.

the debt amount for the 30 year payback is around $50k, so i think most of us will meet that. i borrowed about $45k for law school and selected a 25 year payback, and my payments are so freaking small. so, the moral is that if you don't qualify for that 30 year thing, your loan payments aren't going to break you.

this is a question, though -- what do you do if you don't qualify for the hardship thing. with $200k in debt, your payments are going to be pretty hefty making no more than $50k a year.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

amk, you've got a few things mixed up... i'm an intern, have almost $200k in debt. after the deferment period (which is income based, but based on the 10 yr payoff monthly payment) you can still go into forebearance. you can also forebear if you are in residency but don't owe enough. main difference between deferment and forebearance is whether you pay interest on the subsidized loans.

don't worry kids, you don't HAVE to pay federal loans during residency. private loans can be a different story and vary by the loan...

good news! any recommendations about private loans?

 

[la gringa]

i have a relatively small private loan (the residency/relocation loan, full $12k) so i'm not too worried about it. that one has a 3 yr grace period, i'm in a 4 year residency program but will be able to moonlight by then!!! i'm honestly not even sure if that one is eligible for forebearance, but it might not be worth the trouble esp given the much, much less favorable interest rate. private loans vary a good bit, contact the lender to see what your options are and what will happen to your interest rate.

 

[f_w]

But later on UK physicians will comparatively make peanuts.

If you only look at the NHS salary, that is true. Consultants make between 65k and the low 100s (GBP). However, most consultants work only 4 days per week for the NHS, on the remaining day they at times make a multiple of their NHS salary in private practice. In the end, they do allright compared with physicians here.

The correlation that you speak of has everything to do with level of education. I don't buy the argument that "minorities" (whatever that means to you - social, political, financial) are swayed because of expense.

I don't think I ever used the words 'minorities' or 'correlation' in my post. I quoted from a report issued by the association of american medical colleges. They observed the income situation of their incoming class I quoted, nothing more an nothing less (the same report also notes that the ethnic and gender diversity in medical schools has increased in recent years. But it appears as if wealthier minority candidates are the ones benefitting from this increased diversity)

 

[W06]

To say that there isn't a correlation between socioeconomic status and people entering medical school is crazy. People who come from upper levels of family income are comfortable with the concepts of taking out massive debt to finance education, with the understanding that they will make money back in the future (and often with the life-net of a financially stable family that can help if things get tough). People who have not had those financial advantages have an entirely different perspective on being willing to take a mortgage out on their lives for future gains.

Not to mention that people in lower economic strata have more difficulty getting loans if they have had financial troubles, and to think that they have it easy because they all get scholarships?? Check the stats on that one, my friends.