How much more difficult is it to become a general surgeon as a DO vs MD?

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moca83

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Hello, I was wondering if there are any DO gen surg residents and if so, could you please enlighten me on the difficulties of obtaining a successful match into general surgery as a DO? To be quite honest, during my 27 years on this planet I've pondered everything I could do as a career (even doing a brief stint in investment management) and have arrived at the conclusion that I was meant to be a surgeon. Therefore, I'm trying to find the most successful path into a gen surg residency, while learning about the various potential pitfalls along the way. Any information is greatly appreciated. Thanks!!!

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Why not concentrate on your MCAT first, do as well as you can and then see what options are available to you? It might be a little premature to be worrying about residency pathways before you've even applied to med school.
 
Why not concentrate on your MCAT first, do as well as you can and then see what options are available to you? It might be a little premature to be worrying about residency pathways before you've even applied to med school.

Concur! While you can be a very successful surgeon as either a DO or MD, you have ways to go. So stop pondering and start studying.
 
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I didn't know this when I was applying for medical school. But it looks like for the most part DOs are just like MDs. The only difference is OMM, other then that, they teach you traditional western medicine.

When you graduate from an osteopathic school you can apply to both DO and MD general surgery programs. I have friends who have got into ENT, radiology, ortho, and general surgery DO programs, and they are happy with the quality of their education. But if you have academic aspirations for your future, which is a minority of people who go into medicine, MD is your best bet.

Good luck on your MCATs!! I really hated taking that test
 
Hello, I was wondering if there are any DO gen surg residents and if so, could you please enlighten me on the difficulties of obtaining a successful match into general surgery as a DO?

It's not hard.
 
My sense is that you can definitely match as a DO. And I think for all intents and purposes, DO training and MD training are comparable. That said, I think if you go to a DO school and you want an MD residency, you are taking a more difficult, while still doable, road. It is unfair, in my estimation, but DOs are still considered by some to be a half-step lower on the totem pole. As a DO applicant, you'll have to face that.
 
My sense is that you can definitely match as a DO. And I think for all intents and purposes, DO training and MD training are comparable. That said, I think if you go to a DO school and you want an MD residency, you are taking a more difficult, while still doable, road. It is unfair, in my estimation, but DOs are still considered by some to be a half-step lower on the totem pole. As a DO applicant, you'll have to face that.

Well, at least MD programs allow DO's to be on the same totem pole... even if a step lower.
 

The OP simply asked if it is difficult to match into general surgery as a DO (i.e. did not specify MD or DO residency). IMHO, matching into an osteopathic general surgery residency is not difficult.
 
Why is that unfair?

Well, from what I have seen of DOs (which admittedly is not extensive), their education is comparable to that of MDs.

Moreover, the playing field is to some extent leveled by taking Steps 1 and 2. That DO applicant that you linked to performed well, far above that of most MD general surgery applicants, on both those exams. I think it unfair then to discriminate based solely on the fact that he went to a DO school.

Not only unfair, but also unwise, because the the MD programs should be in the business of getting the best applicants. Between Steps 1 and 2, letters of recommendation, and the interview, I believe that any program can get a reasonable sense of a DO applicant and whether or not he/she compares favorably against some of the other MD applicants in their candidate pool.

That's just my opinion, but then again, I don't speak any French.

Financial disclosure: The author has no stake in, nor affiliation with, any osteopathic school, organization, or facility.

DS
 
Well, from what I have seen of DOs (which admittedly is not extensive), their education is comparable to that of MDs.

Moreover, the playing field is to some extent leveled by taking Steps 1 and 2. That DO applicant that you linked to performed well, far above that of most MD general surgery applicants, on both those exams. I think it unfair then to discriminate based solely on the fact that he went to a DO school.

Not only unfair, but also unwise, because the the MD programs should be in the business of getting the best applicants. Between Steps 1 and 2, letters of recommendation, and the interview, I believe that any program can get a reasonable sense of a DO applicant and whether or not he/she compares favorably against some of the other MD applicants in their candidate pool.

That's just my opinion, but then again, I don't speak any French.

Financial disclosure: The author has no stake in, nor affiliation with, any osteopathic school, organization, or facility.

DS

An osteopathic education is not necessarily comparable to an allopathic education. Most DO students I've met have done the majority of their clinical rotations in community hospitals where the quality of education is not guaranteed. Also, you can't lump all DO schools and all MD schools together. There are going to be some places in both categories that offer an overall better education.

The vast majority of osteopathic students were unable to obtain a spot in an allopathic medical school.....another way to put it that will ruffle less feathers is that there are very few DO students who turned down an MD school acceptance.

Is it fair for a playing field to be completely leveled after Step 1 when one group of students have been more academically accomplished up to that point? No. It is unfair to erase a student's past accomplishments.

If someone graduates from Harvard Med school, he/she is going to get preferential treatment over someone to graduates from SLU. The same principle applies to DO schools, since they are easier to get into than MD schools, just like SLU is easier to get into than Harvard. Honestly, I think it's fair.

I just got done interviewing for fellowship, and while I am a competitive applicant with excellent scores and LORs, I'm training in Kansas, while there are other applicants from Minnesota, Mass General, Columbia, etc who have done dedicated research years in the lab, etc.....I don't feel that all accomplishments should be erased and programs should look solely at scores and LORs....even though it would benefit me greatly.
 
I guess we'll have to just disagree on this point. Or, put another way: Je suis en désaccord avec vous.

You can't lump all DO schools and all MD schools together. There are going to be some places in both categories that offer an overall better education.

This is exactly my point. You can't just say that because someone went to an MD school, but scored 30 points less on Steps 1 and 2, that they still must have had a good education. But that is what happens.

Is it fair for a playing field to be completely leveled after Step 1 when one group of students have been more academically accomplished up to that point? No. It is unfair to erase a student's past accomplishments.

The idiom for this is "resting on one's laurels." It smacks of laziness and entitlement. No, your MCAT shouldn't matter at this stage. And if you did something significant before medical school, you can still put it on your application (publications, etc), thereby obviating any need to account for the school you graduated from as a proxy for your past accomplishments.

If someone graduates from Harvard Med school, he/she is going to get preferential treatment over someone to graduates from SLU. The same principle applies to DO schools, since they are easier to get into than MD schools, just like SLU is easier to get into than Harvard. Honestly, I think it's fair.

Correct (C'est ça). The same principle does apply, and the same principle is flawed in the same way. I accept that this is the current state of things. However, I categorically reject the idea that someone who attended Harvard should be given preference over someone who did not simply because they went to Harvard. That's just silly (C'est tout simplement ridicule). A Harvard graduate and a SIU graduate, all other things being equal, are equivalent.

I just got done interviewing for fellowship, and while I am a competitive applicant with excellent scores and LORs, I'm training in Kansas, while there are other applicants from Minnesota, Mass General, Columbia, etc who have done dedicated research years in the lab, etc.....I don't feel that all accomplishments should be erased and programs should look solely at scores and LORs....even though it would benefit me greatly.

I wouldn't sell yourself so short. And I regret that you are so resigned to such a biased system. If other applicants from those mythical schools you have mentioned have anything to show from their dedicated research years (publications, LOR, cera cera), then he or she should put that on his or her application. Obviously he or she should reap benefit from that. The benefits he or she reaps, however, should be tied to what he or she actually did, not the name of the school he or she attended.

Thus, it is a reality that it matters where you go, but an unfair reality nonetheless.

DS

Financial disclosure: The author has no stake in, nor affiliation with, Harvard, SIU, or the French language. The author did, however, have his appendix removed at KU med center, and is therefore indebted to that hospital, and by extension, the great state of Kansas.
 
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