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I guess if you are over 40, you should consider Poopology?
I'm a 35-year old PGY-1 who was 30 when I started medical school, and I voted for 31-35. While I'm much happer now than I was in medical school, it remains true that, all things considered, if I could do it over I would not go to medical school. The only way I could imagine this being worth it is to do it in one's twenties. Unless you really are one of these people whose one true dream in life is to practice medicine--but how could such people reach age 30 without bothering to apply to medical school yet?
Answer:I'm a 35-year old PGY-1 who was 30 when I started medical school, and I voted for 31-35. While I'm much happer now than I was in medical school, it remains true that, all things considered, if I could do it over I would not go to medical school. The only way I could imagine this being worth it is to do it in one's twenties. Unless you really are one of these people whose one true dream in life is to practice medicine--but how could such people reach age 30 without bothering to apply to medical school yet?
1. Balked at the cost.Nah. Most of them were just young and stupid and didn't really know what would make them happy in life at the time. Most of us career changers probably made many of our own missteps for much the same reason. Only difference is, we decided to do something about it. And empowerment is a good feeling. Someone who invested so much of their youth, tuition money and energy on medicine probably feels a bit more trapped and unempowered. And that breeds comments like "I would never do it again".
I hear this a lot on SDN so I've made a point of asking all the docs I work with. I can count 18 right off the top who said they would do it again, and encouraged me to go into medicine, even considering the pay/debt issues and that I have a family. This is IM, Derm, Rads, Int. Cards, CCM, EM, OB/Gyn, FM, CT Surgery, Heme/Onc. I have never had someone tell me they wouldn't do it over, though I've had a couple say they would have gone into it with their eyes a little more wide open.During my early years working in US hospitals I would ask MDs "if you could do it over, what would you do differently?" 90% would say to me that they would not go to medical school. I stopped asking.
This post made me think that perhaps the reason I don't hear anyone say they wouldn't do it again is because I tend to stay away from these grump-asses as much as possible. Maybe I'm missing out on their perspective. On the other hand, I don't relate to them at all, so perhaps their misery doesn't apply to me.And I have to say, the negativity I encounter in some of the attendings at my hospital is ****ing annoying. Its always about the downward spiral of healthcare, and their drop in patients (drop in business), and that everything's going to hell. Then you see them in the parking garage and they're getting into a beautiful car, or in the process of talking to them about what a pain in the ass it is to deal with HMOs you realize their practice is pulling them at least $500,000 in personal income a year, despite all the headache. No one ever says a thing about how they enjoy their work, it's all money, money, money.
So even at the start of your college years your one true dream in life was to practice medicine, but balking at the cost and the time commitment caused you to refrain?Question:
Answer:
1. Balked at the cost.
2. Balked at the time commitment (come on, when you graduate college, you're looking at half your life before you can start practicing!).
3. Got married, had kids, got in debt, got chained to the $$-making job I had.
4. Turned 30.
If my mind and body (prayerfully) hold up, I desire to practice psychiatry until death....though I do plan on reducing my hours and take more vacations as I hit the retirement years . I think that continuing to work during one's later years can help them stay mentally, physically and socially active....assuming that the job isn't overly strenuous or stressful.
So, personally, I don't think that age should be a factor in admissions. However, I do think that older applicants should be properly screened for health issues which might compromise the training process.
Shouldn't all applicants be properly screened for health issues which might compromise the training process then?
Shouldn't all applicants be properly screened for health issues which might compromise the training process then?
And then there's this: http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/11/mouse-aging-reversal/
What if by the time we're 90 we can choose to age, or not, or choose stay 65 forever, etc... I think there is too much we don't know, and I have met people in their 60s who will live another 20yrs and people in their 40s who may not live another 5...
There is a CV surgeon in his late 60's on my floor all the time. He probably gets around better than me and I'm 24! If your mind and body are young, why not go to med school in your 50's?
What the heck is a "non-trad"? If you're not starting year 1 when you are 20, 21, or 22, you should pick another career path!
Hah, just kidding. I think a lot of the max age has to do with a persons finances and what kind of debt they will be left in after medical school. If you are a 50 year old with no savings and no financial assistance, you will probably be paying for everything with student loans. Say you rack up $300k in student loans over 8 years. Now you're 58 and are $300k in debt. You will probably have to work for 10 years just to pay off your loans (sorry if my numbers are off, but this is just how I imagine it will be for me; I'm 23). Now you're 68 and finally are out of debt. It's probably about time to retire or think about retiring at least.
I know it shouldn't be all about the money, but it is a pretty major consideration given the gigantic expense involved.
It's funny you mentioned that because I have a friend who just turned 25 and she acts like she's on her death bed. LOL
Here's some encouragement for those who may have gotten disheartened by this poll:
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUtOPg_svww[/YOUTUBE]
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All in all, it depends. If you are a "young" 45, then go for it. If you are an "old" 30, then you shouldn't.
I knew everything when I was 25. Made for a rocky next 20 years.I agree with everything you said, but only quoted the best part. I consider myself a "young" 45, and went to back to school in my late 30's. I had to work and didn't want to split my remaing time between school and kids. Now they're grown up and it's my turn. I have 20-somethngs in my orgo II class telling me why med school is stupid idea after 25. I guess they're too old to try it.
I'm 25. Graduated with a B.S. in Neuroscience and Psychology...my shrink seems to think that if I'm not in med school by age 28 I might want to look else where >_>
I knew everything when I was 25. Made for a rocky next 20 years.
So even at the start of your college years your one true dream in life was to practice medicine, but balking at the cost and the time commitment caused you to refrain?
I think we should all ask ourselves the question, "what would you do if you were independently wealthy?" If it really is true that you would become a doctor anyway, then by all means, go to med school. If not, it's not worth it.
Did you guys know that air traffic controllers, who also have a high stress job with many lives in their hands, are required to begin training prior to age 30, and to retire in the mid-late 50's?
Interesting, huh?
I'm 29 going on 30 and hopefully staring med school next year (at 30). I am crushed that there is currently 8 people who think my age would be too old to start med school. *Sigh*
This is just the beginning. I can imagine students who will be in my class, and they will be thinking what on earth I've been doing the past 10 years.
Part of me believes that traditional students think that non-trads are students who have repeated so many years of schooling that we have finally made it years later into the same class as the younger students. Hahah...I don't know how many of the traditional students actually see us as people who have had good jobs or our own businesses, and then just decide to try another route in the pursuit of happiness.
Meaning, at 20, a lot if us thought 30 was old.
Who is actually able to retire at age 50 these days?
Che Dude. Then what?
Abider, each person can only speak for herself or himself.
Here's to the Fatman!
So even at the start of your college years your one true dream in life was to practice medicine, but balking at the cost and the time commitment caused you to refrain?
I think we should all ask ourselves the question, "what would you do if you were independently wealthy?" If it really is true that you would become a doctor anyway, then by all means, go to med school. If not, it's not worth it.
Part of my motivation for going through with this process actually stems from an interview for a different job. The interviewer made some comment about "Well, I guess if you won the lottery, you'd become a lifelong student collecting PhD's" and my instantaneous impromtu reply was "Actually, I'd go to medical school."I think the "independently wealthy" question is an interesting one. I think it attempts to get at less conscious motivations for going into a career. In that sense, it seems like a good one. Is this question geared toward the training? As in, would you go through the training? Or is it geared toward the practice? I think there are very few independently wealthy people who would knowingly subject themselves to the intensity of the training. But I would guess there are a good number who would enjoy the practice. However, I wonder if it's fair to say that the other considerations that people make when choosing a career--conscious and less conscious-- are irrelevant. I would think the practical benefits (job security, salary, etc) are just as important, but not good enough by themselves. Most of us don't have the option to try to write a novel or to play golf everyday. We have to do something, and this seems like the best option. In addition, I know physicians who enjoy their jobs and wouldn't do anything else for work, but they'd definitely quit if they won the lottery.
So even at the start of your college years your one true dream in life was to practice medicine, but balking at the cost and the time commitment caused you to refrain?
I think we should all ask ourselves the question, "what would you do if you were independently wealthy?" If it really is true that you would become a doctor anyway, then by all means, go to med school. If not, it's not worth it.
Spencer,Hello,
I would like to comment on your post. I too am out of the "normal" application age for medical students. I will be taking the mcat again for an anticipated matriculation in 2014. I am 49 and do not use this as a limiting factor. I believe in myself, my goals and foremost the passion to serve the poor. Thank you for your post. I wish you the best.
spencer
Spencer,
I am about your age, 50 to be exact, and still hoping to pursue a career in medicine. I'm currently working as an RN, but getting a little discouraged at this point. I still have to take the MCAT and my overall gpa at a community college is currently 3.3. I was wondering if you've had any luck getting accepted anywhere and have any words of encouragement.
My own recommendation would be to draw the line at 50.
Some of my all-time best students were in their 30s and 40s. I recently graduated one at 50. Our oldest student ever was 53 at matriculation.
This is interesting. Do you think this is even more true at allopathic schools? IOW, do you feel that it would be impossible or nearly so for students in the age ranges stated above to get into an allopathic program, even if their stats and applications were stellar?
Also, since you teach at an osteopathic ms, are you finding this to be just as true at such schools?
Finally, what is the rationale you give for this?
Thank you Goro for your perspective and insight.
haven't a clue as to what Allo schools do. I recall someone posting a thread that a 60ish person matriculated in a CA MD school, maybe UCLA or USC. For some people, age really is a mere number.
Overall, if the Adcom thinks that you can handle med school and that you will make a good doctor, they'll ignore age.
practicing medicine is not like playing in the nfl or nba where you are clearly done by age 40. even mj was brought back down to earth by father time. if your brain is sharp, and you can at least keep your body somewhat healthy, you can definitely practice all the way into your 70s (at least internal medicine). i read a story a few months back about a doc who practices out of his car in a small town in america because his patients cannot come to him. there was some problem/issue with that but anyway, this guy was old and active and i assume he had kept up with medical journals and basic practicing principles.
the limit i would give it would not be a number but a person, case by case. most of this is determined by genetics, some of it by just pure luck or happenstances of life. i can ask the reverse q. how young is too young to be a doc.? would you let doogie practice on you (yeah that fake doc kid on doogie howser)? it all depends on his training, his exposure to the medical issue, and maturity. in an older doc., same thing except now his or her body is breaking down a bit, but what about the brain? if it's working just as well as age 50s, then why not?