How to convince my crazy mom that DO is better than the carribeans

[IslandStyle808]

So, since this thread has already been necrobumped, what is the actual DO placement rate?

Could I get a drum role....



99.41%!



The proof without the heresay...

http://www.aacom.org/docs/default-source/medical-students/match_infographic_2015.pdf?sfvrsn=2

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[NurWollen]

Could I get a drum role....



99.41%!



The proof without the heresay...

http://www.aacom.org/docs/default-source/medical-students/match_infographic_2015.pdf?sfvrsn=2

Aaaand... since AT LEAST 90% of people who start DO school will eventually finish, people on day on of DO school are looking at an ~89% chance of landing a residency.

No foreign school can come close to that. Even if all residency programs look at graduating DOs and graduating IMGs equally, DO is still the better option because of far higher graduation rates and the AOA match.

 

[JT19]

I like those odds

 

[hallowmann]

So, since this thread has already been necrobumped, what is the actual DO placement rate?

Match rates are around 85-90%, placement rates are as what was listed, >99%. For US MD schools it's around the same for placement, but match rates are closer to 94%. The best Carib schools I know of have placement rates from 75-80% of graduating students. Attrition at DO schools is averaged ~8.5% (ranges I believe from 4%-14% depending on the school) across 4 years, and is 25-50% for Carib MD schools depending on the school. It's obvious that going to a DO school is a safer bet than going to a Carib MD school in terms of making it to some kind of GME.

 

[Mad Jack]

Just show her the match results. Colleges like LECOM have been very successful in the match. http://lecom.edu/content/uploads/2015/06/2015_LECOM_Match-Summary.pdf Of DO schools, usually around 85% get US residencies. Of Caribbean graduates, it's probabaly half that. Plus, with the upcoming MD/DO merger in 2020, the number of seats for IMG will be extremely low. DO >>> Caribbean IMO!

Op is already an attending at this point lol. Her mother knows.

 

[the argus]

Match rates are around 85-90%, placement rates are as what was listed, >99%. For US MD schools it's around the same for placement, but match rates are closer to 94%. The best Carib schools I know of have placement rates from 75-80% of graduating students. Attrition at DO schools is averaged ~8.5% (ranges I believe from 4%-14% depending on the school) across 4 years, and is 25-50% for Carib MD schools depending on the school. It's obvious that going to a DO school is a safer bet than going to a Carib MD school in terms of making it to some kind of GME.

As long as we are being anal about numbers, the best (loose term) caribbean schools actually have placement rates 85-90% and attrition rates 15-25% depending on the school. But regardless, DO is definitely the safer option.

 

[IslandStyle808]

As long as we are being anal about numbers, the best (loose term) caribbean schools actually have placement rates 85-90% and attrition rates 15-25% depending on the school. But regardless, DO is definitely the safer option.

I doubt that 85-90% number is true right now. AUC which is one of the big four has its placement rate at 82.7%. This school I would consider right behind SGU. The other schools are probably at 80% or below.

AUC's data
http://aucmed.edu/AUC/media/PDF/residency/Residency-Match-2014.pdf

 

[the argus]

I doubt that 85-90% number is true right now. AUC which is one of the big four has its placement rate at 82.7%. This school I would consider right behind SGU. The other schools are probably at 80% or below.

AUC's data
http://aucmed.edu/AUC/media/PDF/residency/Residency-Match-2014.pdf

Ross was 88% this year
http://www.rossu.edu/medical-school/Facts-and-Figures.cfm

Saying one of the three top Caribbean schools is better than the others is silly, they are all the same. SGU doesn't open any doors to residency that going to Ross wouldn't and vice versa. The only people that say it does are those that are insecure about going to a Caribbean school so they say "well at least I go to the best" to make themselves feel better.

 

[W19]

Ross was 88% this year
http://www.rossu.edu/medical-school/Facts-and-Figures.cfm

Saying one of the three top Caribbean schools is better than the others is silly, they are all the same. SGU doesn't open any doors to residency that going to Ross wouldn't and vice versa. The only people that say it does are those that are insecure about going to a Caribbean school so they say "well at least I go to the best" to make themselves feel better.

That is good IMO... Probably better than some US schools.

 

[YankeeCandle1141]

That is good IMO... Probably better than some US schools.

Lol

 

[IslandStyle808]

Ross was 88% this year
http://www.rossu.edu/medical-school/Facts-and-Figures.cfm

Saying one of the three top Caribbean schools is better than the others is silly, they are all the same. SGU doesn't open any doors to residency that going to Ross wouldn't and vice versa. The only people that say it does are those that are insecure about going to a Caribbean school so they say "well at least I go to the best" to make themselves feel better.

Okay that is surprising, you're right there are school matching at that rate.

However, what do you believe accounts for the difference in matching between those schools? For example look at the graph on chart 15 (pg. 22).

http://www.ecfmg.org/resources/NRMP...atch-International-Medical-Graduates-2014.pdf

This is showing first choice in specialty, not match rates. SGU (534 matched, 258 did not match) has a greater success rate than Ross (532 matched, 438 did not match) and Saba (45 matched, 33 did not). This is a significant difference.

 

[the argus]

Okay that is surprising, you're right there are school matching at that rate.

However, what do you believe accounts for the difference in matching between those schools? For example look at the graph on chart 15 (pg. 22).

http://www.ecfmg.org/resources/NRMP...atch-International-Medical-Graduates-2014.pdf

This is showing first choice in specialty, not match rates. SGU (534 matched, 258 did not match) has a greater success rate than Ross (532 matched, 438 did not match) and Saba (45 matched, 33 did not). This is a significant difference.

I've explained in detail why these charts look this way in previous threads, I'll repost below if you want to read it

I'll give you a perfect example of misinterpreted data used to make half-cocked arguments. This is from earlier in this thread.



This quote was liked by Goro/Lord_Vader/etc, and they're right, that 53% would be ****ing horrifying if it actually represented the chances of matching as a US-IMG, but it doesn't. And it doesn't take much detective work to understand why that number doesn't represent that. But people just throw it out there because it fits their argument, rather than actually understanding where it comes from. I'll put it all here so you don't even have to leave this thread.

If you look at the ECFMG report from 2013,
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uplo...tional-Medical-Graduates-Revised.PDF-File.pdf,
you will see that the average time since graduation for the unmatched cohort of US-IMGs is 5.7 years.

When people say "match rate", they usually mean the chances of a recent graduate who is in the match for the first time. This is exemplified by the fact that the NRMP data reports actually breaks up US allopathic applicants into US seniors vs. US grad.

But when quoting that 53% you are not actually describing US-IMGs in the match for the first time, you are describing all US-IMGs in the match regardless of how many times they have applied. The NRMP data reports don't differentiate US-IMG senior vs US-IMG grad. There is without a doubt a percentage (~10%) of US-IMGs that manage to graduate from school, but are poor applicants (semester failures, step failures, etc) and are not able to ever match. This small yearly cohort continues to apply every year, builds up over time (hence the 5.7 years above), and drastically skews the US-IMG "match rate".

If you want to include those reapplicants when describing true US-IMG "match rates", then you also have to include all the applicants from those previous years that did successfully match. If you don't do this (like the NRMP data reports), you are way oversampling the poor applicant/unmatched cohort. The NRMP does actually recognize this because they split US allopathic applicants into those 2 groups, they just don't do it for IMGs for some reason.

People try to say the US MD vs US-IMG match rates are 94% vs 53%, which is in fact comparing 2 completely different data sets. The yearly match rates for NRMP defined US grads (i.e. non-matched applicants from previous years) are actually 40-50%, showing that poor applicants, regardless of where they come from, do not do very well in the match.

The first-time match rate for the big 3 caribbean medical schools is between 80-90%. Granted this does not take into account students lost to attrition before graduation, which is no doubt substantial.

But when people say caribbean grads have a ~50% chance of matching, they are grossly misinterpreting the data.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I've explained in detail why these charts look this way in previous threads, I'll repost below if you want to read it

That pretty much makes the charts useless. I would further state that those first specialty results are probably worse than what is reported. What's the point of these charts if you can't make an exact analysis of something.