How to determine is residency is good?

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anbuitachi

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How do I tell if a residency program is good or not? I'm looking at Freida to get information on programs but for programs outside of my region, I can't really tell how good it is, or how competitive the program is (most programs just list no step requirement of low step requirement (~200-220). For example, I was looking at Mayo clinic, cleveland clinic, case western, but I can't tell which is superior or more competitive? Any advice?

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You may have to be a little more specific in what you are looking for. Good in name, good in training, or good in lifestyle and/or some combination thereof.
How would you rank your priorities?
 
My first step is figuring out how difficult it is to get into the program. I'm trying to apply to maybe 15 reach/next to impossible schools, 15 mid tiers, 5-10 'low tiers'. However the program is, I can't tell if a program is mid or high tier usually. Like for Mayo clinic, I know its a well known name in general, has a top medical school, and excels in certain aspects of medicine, but I don't know if that applies to anesthesiology. And also in terms of name recognition, I dont know which top programs are regionally well known vs nationally

Or what are important things on Freida to look out for (other than location..) in terms of quality of training.
 
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My first step is figuring out how difficult it is to get into the program. I'm trying to apply to maybe 15 reach/next to impossible schools, 15 mid tiers, 5-10 'low tiers'. However the program is, I can't tell if a program is mid or high tier usually. Like for Mayo clinic, I know its a well known name in general, has a top medical school, and excels in certain aspects of medicine, but I don't know if that applies to anesthesiology. And also in terms of name recognition, I dont know which top programs are regionally well known vs nationally

Or what are important things on Freida to look out for (other than location..) in terms of quality of training.


Mayo (Rochester) is a top name. You will need solid scores 230+ to match or have other skills I'm not able to mention on this forum.

Case Western and Cleveland Clinic are mid tier programs.
 
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Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 235
Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 251
Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 43%


Mayo Rochester. If you have at least one step score over 240 then give it a shot.
 
Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 218
Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 239
Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 33%


Solid Mid Tier program. Case Western
 
Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 203
Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 222
Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 12%


Univ of Toledo. Bottom 1/3 program
 
Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 223
Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 233
Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 0%


Henry Ford Hospital. Bottom 1/3 program
 
Wow thats a LOT of AOA students!!! Where are you finding step information? It's not listed on Freida.


You can save yourself a lot of time and money by doing your research. I also think programs like to "puff up" their statistics. If you are close to the mean scores then apply. A good Step 1 or Step 2 will help a lot.
 
Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 206
Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 219
Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 28%


Univ of Vermont: Bottom 1/3 program
 
Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 224
Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 236
Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 25%


West Virginia: Bottom 1/3
 
Georgetown: Bottom 1/3


Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 177
Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 235
Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 33%

 
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Western Penn: Bottom 1/3

Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 220
Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 228
Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 30%

 
Brookdale Univ (N.Y.): Bottom 1/3
Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 224
Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 216
Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 0%


 
Maimonides: Bottom 1/3

Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 220
Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 233
Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 0%
 
Medical College of Georgia: Bottom 1/3

Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 203
Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 241
Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 18%
 
Suny Upstate: Bottom 1/3

Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 219
Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 228
Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 25
 
Loma Linda: Bottom 1/3

Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 195
Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 240
Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 28%
 
Mayo (Jacksonville): Bottom 1/3

Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 192
Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 245
Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 33%
 
Univ. of Louisville: Bottom 1/3

Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 199
Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 244
Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 20%
 
One of my favorite Mid Tier Programs is Univ. of pittsburgh. You get top 20 training for a mediocre Step score. Texas has a few solid mid tier programs as well. Those of you with 230 Step 1 and 235 Step 2 scores have a lot of excellent programs to choose from.

What I am saying is that solid Mid Tier programs offer equal or better training that some of the top 20 programs so don't sweat it. With effort any of these quality programs (Mid Tier or higher) and you will be an excellent Anesthesiologist.
 
Pretty interesting info, Blade.

I never imagined programs with name recognition, like Loma Linda or Georgetown, were lower third programs.
 
One of my favorite Mid Tier Programs is Univ. of pittsburgh. You get top 20 training for a mediocre Step score. Texas has a few solid mid tier programs as well. Those of you with 230 Step 1 and 235 Step 2 scores have a lot of excellent programs to choose from.

What I am saying is that solid Mid Tier programs offer equal or better training that some of the top 20 programs so don't sweat it. With effort any of these quality programs (Mid Tier or higher) and you will be an excellent Anesthesiologist.

Blade... do California. I can't find the info that you have.
 
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Georgetown: Bottom 1/3


Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 177
Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 235
Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 33%

.
177?!!?!? The average failed by 15 points?

How is the average so low yet 33% are AOA?!
 
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Blade. Stop.
Why? It's interesting. :corny:

I'm waiting for him to insult my program. :D

P.S. I think the data might be from matchapplicants.com. (I can't find the primary source.)
 
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Yes, I am waiting to for my program to be ranked as bottom third.

Programs like Maimo are bottom of the barrel. I don't think a Mayo satellite is even close to being in their class.
 
Funny thing is, in 5-10 years, the "top" programs will be happy to have the kind of applicants they refuse today. :p
 
Earnings of grads from top programs = earnings of grads from bottom programs. It's all the same as long as they train you right.
 
FFP, thank you for the link. That's a great resource. After spending some time looking at the actual stats of the people who got interviews its easy to see that there is a glitch in the way the website calculates the average at some of the schools, so Georgetown isn't really interviewing people with at 177 average. They took students with a 197 and a 198, though, which I found very encouraging. I've been struggling in school, and it was encouraging to see that as long as I can keep passing everything I can probably match somewhere in anesthesiology. Despite the employment and midlevel problems, it's hard to think of a better specialty that's open to students with <200 step scores.
 
I wouldn't rely much on the info on that site. Too little data.
 
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Why? It's interesting. :corny:

I'm waiting for him to insult my program. :D

P.S. I think the data might be from matchapplicants.com. (I can't find the primary source.)


I'm not insulting anyone's program. I'm just trying to point out those programs which accept Med Students with a Step 1 of 200 and a step 2 of 210-220.

I agree with you that in 5 years mid tier programs will be taking Step 1 scores of 200 on a regular basis.
 
Some of the numbers they calculate the average from are 5+ years old. I think it's more interesting to look at the 2013-2014 numbers which, for my program at least, seem to be more consistent with what I heard from the PD.


And they are "interview" numbers not match numbers which will be lower for the bottom 1/3 of the programs.

AOA statistics are INTERVIEW numbers and NOT match numbers. This means if you are AOA they grant you an interview provided you applied to their program. This doesn't mean that program GOT 30% AOA med students to matriculate with them.
 
I saw that I was wrong, hence I edited my answer.

Some of those reviews are funny: apparently at Mount Sinai they spend the interview day in scrubs. :)
 
Earnings of grads from top programs = earnings of grads from bottom programs. It's all the same as long as they train you right.


It isn't about earnings per se but rather Fellowship opportunities, networking and a good job in academics. Also, the consistency of training is better for Mid Tier and higher programs. Bottom 1/3 may or may not offer solid training in all areas of anesthesia. Naturally, there will be those individuals who excel DESPITE their Residency programs.
 
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Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 204
Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 245
Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 33%


Univ. of California Irvine- Bottom 1/3 (upper portion of the bottom 1/3)
 
LAC Harbor- UCLA

Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 197
Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 223
Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 25%

Bottom 1/3

 
The problem with Pittsburgh is that it's in Pittsburgh.


And New Haven is so much better? Dartmouth? There are big name programs in crappier locations than Pittsburgh. I'm from the South so for me cold weather is out. But, Texas (Dallas) or Atlanta (Emory) or UNC are good mid tier programs. Univ of Miami is on the rise as well (weather doesn't get much better). Still, Pittsburgh offers fantastic training for average/slightly above average Step scores.
 
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Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 233
Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 252
Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 50%


Wake Forest is another solid Mid tier Program with a great Southern location.
 
Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 199
Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 239
Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 20%

Univ of Miami. Bottom 1/3 or Mid Tier? My hunch is that they want you to think they are mid tier but an allopathic med student with a Step 1 of 209 and a step 2 of 230 could still match there.
 
Average USMLE Step 1 Score of interviewed applicants: 213
Average USMLE Step 2 Score of interviewed applicants: 241
Percentage of applicants offered interviews who were AOA: 33%


There was a time (15 years ago) that U.F. was a top 20 program. No longer. Now it is Mid Tier because Gainesville doesn't have the case exposure that true top 20 programs offer their Residents.
 
Earnings of grads from top programs = earnings of grads from bottom programs. It's all the same as long as they train you right.

But dont academic centers prefer ppl from better named schools? Seeing as how everyone is becoming employed these days its perhaps better to go to a better school? Most ppl are not going into research. Question is, why are people trying so hard to get into higher ranked places if in the end it doesn't really matter?

edit: just saw blakes response hahah.
 
Thanks for posting all this Blade. If the data is from matchapplicants can we assume it's still accurate? Seems like a lot of those profiles are from 2008/2009.
 
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